Apple's App Store, Safari, and iOS Officially Designated 'Gatekeepers' in EU

[iPadified]

Is the US better in other areas? EU got really worried because of the Inflation reduction act by Biden which essentially was (also) large scale government support to companies to come to US. That is clearly setting market mechanisms out of actions according to Europeans. Fair or just different approaches just like regulation of tech companies?

Ironic that when a company gets state support it is called capitalism, market economy and freedom, and when an individual get state support it is called socialism.

PS. US citizens do not live longer and do not have better quality of life than the average EU citizen so what do you get for your higher GNP? DS

 

[gnipgnop]

Windows has also been designated as a gatekeeper, FWIW.

Yes, but Windows already allows most of the things that the EU is claiming make a more competitive market. And that's one of the issues with the EU approach: they're ignoring what actually happened with the desktop OS market while attempting to force the mobile OS market to be a clone of desktop.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Leave, Apple/Google/Microsoft! They need you more than you need them.

 

[GalileoSeven]

This will blow up in the EUs face spectacularly, it's just a matter of time

 

[Unregistered 4U]

The EU's Digital Markets Act (DMA) seeks to curtail the power of major tech companies.

It’s funny that “major tech companies” is synonymous with “non-EU companies”. And this is likely why even those that started in the EU, left.

 

[webkit]

But look at the desktop OS system that is supposedly the "better" competitive approach: Windows has 70% of the market, macOS has around 20% and the remaining 10% includes Linux etc. It doesn't really make sense to say that mobile is somehow anti-competitive relative to operating systems on desktop.

The problem with that: the EU is treating the desktop OS market like it's the healthier competitive market and in reality it's significantly worse than mobile.

The "anticompetitive" part relates to the actions of the companies. For example, does Windows or macOS restrict sideloading or alternative browser engines like iOS does??

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

But look at the desktop OS system that is supposedly the "better" competitive approach: Windows has 70% of the market, macOS has around 20% and the remaining 10% includes Linux etc. It doesn't really make sense to say that mobile is somehow anti-competitive relative to operating systems on desktop.

Desktops don't limit app distribution and web engines. Phones do. On Windows and Mac you are not limited to just the Microsoft and Apple App Store, you can download apps off the web, buy apps through Steam and other alternative app stores, even modify the OS somewhat with some of the apps on offer. Plus you are not limited to just those OSs. You can install a different OS on your desktop should you so choose. macOS can't do something that Windows can? Dualboot Windows or use a Windows VM. Tired of Microsoft's crap? Buy a Mac or install a Linux distro.

 

[gnipgnop]

But, taking Apple as a primary example...they ignore that tightly controlling the ecosystem provides tangible benefits to consumers. Privacy, safety, ease of use, interoperability among devices.

To ignore those benefits threatens those benefits to consumers who want them.

You point out one of the key issues: the EU is clearly not doing this to benefit consumers. Their own bullet point explanations have nothing to do with consumers. It appears to be about catering to billion/trillion dollar software companies that want to open their own stores on iOS AND about undermining the privacy/security of the OS itself.

 

[Banan911]

Came here to watch Americans rant about everything outside US being socialist and lacking freedom 😂

What many Americans don’t know is that the US is the richest third world country in the world. I’m often shocked with how undeveloped and bad functioning things are when I visit. But most Americans probably don’t know as the majority never leave the country or are educated enough to know about the world.

 

[contacos]

I'm in the EU. How can I get / pay for a USA iCloud account. In a legitimate kind of way so it's not at risk of being cancelled.

Just switch to United States at the bottom of the Apple Account registration page before signing up. Have had my US account for 15+ years or whatever how old the iPod Video is

 

[McKodiak]

I hope that the changes that come from these regulations are optional for people from outside the EU. I really don’t want a 3rd party App Store on my phone.

My issue will be when an app that I would like is only available from another App Store.

 

[webkit]

Let's say that you're right. This will lead to more competition. Who pays to run the App Store? Who pays for all the services behind the App Store? Who pays for the security of the App Store?

Now, the EU wants Apple to do this all for free. If you think the consumer isn't going to end up footing the bill for this, either for a per app download fee, Apple ID fee, App Store access fee or some other increase, you're delusional.

If Apple allows sideloading and alternative app stores on iOS, it will open the door for potentially lower cost selling alternatives for app developers which could open the door for lower cost apps/in-app purchasers, etc.

The EU is not saying Apple has to do anything for "free" bur rather that Apple (as well as Google) has to allow for more of a free and open market on its dominant mobile OS. Many app developers and users may still choose to use the App Store but at least the open market decided and it wasn't so much controlled/dictated by Apple.

The difference between capitalism and socialism is that capitalism says that you should only pay for what you want while socialism says you should pay for what everyone else wants.

Capitalism is about open competition. Apple, by restricting sideloading, alternative app stores, alternative browser engines, etc. on its dominant mobile OS, is restricting open competition.

 

[gnipgnop]

Desktops don't limit app distribution and web engines. Phones do. On Windows and Mac you are not limited to just the Microsoft and Apple App Store, you can download apps off the web, buy apps through Steam and other alternative app stores, even modify the OS somewhat with some of the apps on offer. Plus you are not limited to just those OSs. You can install a different OS on your desktop should you so choose. macOS can't do something that Windows can? Dualboot Windows or use a Windows VM. Tired of Microsoft's crap? Buy a Mac or install a Linux distro.

Sure, but the fact remains that Windows is 70% of the desktop OS market and apps on desktop have always been significantly more expensive than apps on mobile. Turning the mobile OS market into a clone of the desktop OS market isn't going to have any CONSUMER benefits.

 

[Shirasaki]

Ok, everyone here can talk the talk.
But, we all know what apple will not do: quit those markets unless they have no Options left.
Apple will not quit EU because why should they? Same for Japan and China. Just apply different standards and survive as long as they can until the cost is too high or country kicks Apple out.

 

[contacos]

What does „iOS“ being deemed a gatekeeper even mean? iMessage is part of iOS. Does that mean you are supposed to be able to install other OS on your iPhone? Since they have a problem with the Operation System itself.

 

[webkit]

Again, this is reductionist, suggesting that a closed-ecosystem provides no benefits to the consumer. That's fundametaly not true, and by side-stepping that benefit, your argument loses merit.

Just because there may be benefits to a close-ecosystem doesn't mean there can't be even greater benefits or benefits to more people from an "open" ecosystem or that opening up the ecosystem can't result in a better product (for everyone) in the long run.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

Sure, but the fact remains that Windows is 70% of the desktop OS market and apps on desktop have always been significantly more expensive than apps on mobile. Turning the mobile OS market into a clone of the desktop OS market isn't going to have any CONSUMER benefits.

Consumers would have new choices for where they can get apps and different web engines available, as well as Apple being forced to improve the App Store to stay relevant with new competition. I'd say that's a consumer benefit.

 

[LV426]

Screw the EU, they only go after American companies. Hey Apple, Google and MS please stop selling your products to the EU and let them have a China crap.

They had quite a pop at Volkswagen for their misleading vehicle emissions statements, as I recall.

 

[Dremmel]

Well done EU. Better late than never. We will still get to choose what we install on our phones.

 

[gnipgnop]

Just because there may be benefits to a close-ecosystem doesn't mean there can't be even greater benefits or benefits to more people from an "open" ecosystem or that opening up the ecosystem can't result in a better product (for everyone) in the long run.

The desktop OS market is what the EU wants the mobile market to become. Is the desktop market significantly better? No. The OS competition dynamic is worse and the prices are higher.

 

[clayj]

What?! California is great. The only things California is regulating are things that need to be regulated.

California is a toilet. Godzilla can't arrive soon enough.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

hahaha...so, Apple will only stay relevant if the EU tells them how to operate? hahaha.

If they want to continue operating in the EU yes they will.

Which btw, it's not just the EU. I'd like to remind you Japan recently adopted similar guidelines and will be forcing Apple to allow alternative app stores as well. Apple has overwhelming dominant marketshare in Japan.

 

[DougieS]

You can just choose not to sideload you know. Just like on Android, sideloading is completely optional and can be turned on and off with a toggle in settings. You can stay with the Apple App Store and never touch any alternatives should you so choose to.

A back door still remains and creates risk for new security issues even if turned off.

 

[webkit]

In other words, the "open" OS doesn't fundamentally achieve anything different, according to you, than the closed OS. And yet, still, you're convinced that government regulation will actually do something that competition between an open os and a closed os haven't accomplished.

The remains to be seen but at least more of a free and open market decided, which is the point. It could result in a much better product and experience in the long run.

Again...tell me the benefits of forcing Apple to allow 3rd party appstores and side loading, and then show me how what you're saying is true, as proven by the 3rd party app stores and side loading on Android. I'll wait.

The benefit is allowing for more open and free app competition in the mobile OS market which can result in a better product and experience for more people in the long run.

 

[RickDEGH]

Imagine there were laws that try to stifle businesses like VW, BMW, Airbus, etc. because they are such giant “gatekeepers”. That’d be terrible, wouldn’t it? Yeah. But, as a consumer, I probably would like that -especially when new cars are increasingly crippled unless you buy all the manufacturer’s services (named add-ons). I live in the EU and can’t afford a new BMW or even an Airbus 😌