Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple's "dirty little secret" re: Flash
- Thread starter samcraig
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
If Jobs says it's bad, then it's bad. Period. His knowledge is superior.Geez dude, you seem pretty bitter. I'm not a developer, but Flash seems pretty stable for me when I follow the NBA game online, chat and play games on Facebook and watch shows on Hulu.
Still a resource hog in terms of memory and each version is more unstable then the last. Flash on OS X is completely terrible, its too deep in the OS and its a single instance. Meaning, if you have Flash totally hose Firefox ... all browsers are effected. If you are dealing with SWFs that use AS2 and AS3 for different parts, you are in for a world of hurt. It sometimes requires a reboot when it crashes hard. Flash should *NEVER* *EVER* effect the OS in this way, that's piss pour design on Adobes part.
If Jobs says it's bad, then it's bad. Period. His knowledge is superior.
I want to clarify that I have been very openly against Flash *WAY* before he said any of that.
Must be an OSX thing, I use flash on my desktop (PC), Netbook and my Nexus One phone no issues like that at all. If it was that big a memory hog I would think the issues would definitely show on my phone but they dont it actually works really well.
I can't speak for OSX as i've never owned a mac laptop or imac only the iphone and ipad.
The fact that Flash is worse on some platforms points to the core of the problem: Apple can't fix it. If someone makes a marginal app that crashes a lot, that makes the app look bad. But if a plugin takes down Safari, the user can't tell; it makes Safari look bad.
Adobe might be able to fix it on iPhone/iPad, and they might be able to use hardware acceleration. But once Adobe loses interest, you're stuck in the same place.
It turns out browser plugins were a bad idea. The better approach is to program to web standards, and let everyone implement their own engine (and/or use WebKit).
Adobe might be able to fix it on iPhone/iPad, and they might be able to use hardware acceleration. But once Adobe loses interest, you're stuck in the same place.
It turns out browser plugins were a bad idea. The better approach is to program to web standards, and let everyone implement their own engine (and/or use WebKit).
I too am a developer and I absolutely HATE flash.
It is such an ass-backwards thing. The object oriented stuff was bolted on, the syntax sucks, and its terribly slow.
I too think this is the biggest reason for the anti-flash sentiment at Apple. A lot of the other factors mentioned contribute to the lack of Flash on portable devices but at the end of the day it really does come down to Adobe not providing a stable produce for Apple.
set up farmville or any other 'heavy gfx' game on a Mac. My girlfriend went nuts at how slow it is. And she could care less about tech.
I actually agree that flash performance is a bit of a cop out. H.264 takes some juice and the additional overhead probably wouldn't break it on the iPad. Even if it did, then just support Flash navigation and animations.
I think the real problem is Adobe is just unwilling to do what's needed to work within apple's specifications. So blame Apple for being difficult (no special treatment), blame adobe for being lazy. Either way it's not happening. It will be interesting to see what happens if it works well on Android.
I think the real problem is Adobe is just unwilling to do what's needed to work within apple's specifications. So blame Apple for being difficult (no special treatment), blame adobe for being lazy. Either way it's not happening. It will be interesting to see what happens if it works well on Android.
I actually think it is a good move. It sucks for now, because we miss out on sites like Hulu, but they will eventually come around.
I think the ABC app is a great example of good things to come. It's very promising.
I can't tell you how many clients I've had to talk out of using Flash on their websites.
I think the ABC app is a great example of good things to come. It's very promising.
I can't tell you how many clients I've had to talk out of using Flash on their websites.
Check out how awesome Flash is on a tablet:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/05/fusion-garage-joojoo-review/
2.5 hours of battery, gosh, that's enough to get through a movie. Maybe.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/05/fusion-garage-joojoo-review/
2.5 hours of battery, gosh, that's enough to get through a movie. Maybe.
It already works well on Android, it's still beta but battery drain is normal, it doesnt freeze or anything. It plays embedded flash video on web pages really smooth. The only thing i've had a problem with is Hulu it just doesn't play for some reason Hulu pops up a message saying not supported or something like that. Hopefully they get that fixed soon because Hulu is awesome!
I don't think it's a matter of what Apple "likes" to do. Mac OS X is based on UNIX, which doesn't allow any app the kind of direct CPU and RAM access that Adobe wants, and gets in Windows.
See above. And that direct access to the CPU and RAM makes Flash a big time security risk.
Know what else eats up battery life? Browsing the web, leaving iTune on, or having the screen brightness all the way up.
Apple should remove the browser, uninstall iTunes, and set the brightness to a default without user option to change it.
Let's see. Goal of long battery life. More memory, if memory is the issue, means shorter battery life per charge. Also more heat generated so better cooling. Maybe active cooling like laptops have. That will eat battery life.
Comes down that Flash != goals of iPad.
It is all about trade-offs. I feel Flash is overused, and I'm a Flex developer now. This issue directly impacts my professional life. It would be GREAT if the iPad supported Flex via the Flash runtime. It doesn't and now we have to deal with that. Going to get very interesting.
As far as skimping on hardware, not sure that is entirely true either. They included a back lit LED display. If they had wanted to skimp, why not just include a standard LCD display?
This is why flash is not implemented on iPhones and iPads:
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2010/02/20/an-adobe-flash-developer-on-why-the-ipad-cant-use-flash/
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2010/02/20/an-adobe-flash-developer-on-why-the-ipad-cant-use-flash/
Every time my fan screams up I know I must have accidently hit a flash ad somewhere in an open tab.
I found this blog post a little while back about the Apple/Adobe deteriorating relationship interesting.
http://www.hardmac.com/news/2010/02...he-roots-and-reasons-behind-today-s-situation
I found this blog post a little while back about the Apple/Adobe deteriorating relationship interesting.
http://www.hardmac.com/news/2010/02...he-roots-and-reasons-behind-today-s-situation
Because then flash would never go away. If Jobs found a way to block flash in OSX, flash would be dead in a month.
As it is today, any web developer would be nuts to go flash, with soon to be 100million iPhone OS devices sold. If they lost 10% of the desktop market too, even the ones who are nuts will come around.
Flash Experience
I have used many macs and PCs over the years and in that time I have found that PCs crash all the time and Macs only crash if Flash is involved. Don't know why don't really care why is it hardware or software only Adobe and Apple know for sure. But the reality is Flash is a problem on the Mac platform. So no flash on the iPad not a deal breaker. I'm waiting on my 3G.
I have used many macs and PCs over the years and in that time I have found that PCs crash all the time and Macs only crash if Flash is involved. Don't know why don't really care why is it hardware or software only Adobe and Apple know for sure. But the reality is Flash is a problem on the Mac platform. So no flash on the iPad not a deal breaker. I'm waiting on my 3G.