but they are not cheap because they are also relatively new to the market. LCDs, being a more mature product, are cheaper.
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Apple's "dirty little secret" re: Flash
- Thread starter samcraig
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but they are not cheap because they are also relatively new to the market. LCDs, being a more mature product, are cheaper.
Um I don't really think this is remotely true. As someone that has designed websites in the past - if 90 percent of my audience can view the web page, that's very high and acceptable.
I'm not arguing for trying to make sites that are 100 percent or at least offer different versions based on compatibility. But if you honestly think that if Apple (alone) decided to block flash that flash would die, I think that's not at all realistic. And "in a month" is ludicrous.
Flash and HTML5 will be pervasive TOGETHER for several years yet.
Here is EXACTLY the problem with adobe. Instead of working with Fusion Garage to improve flash performance on the JooJoo, they just publicly blame FG for poor performance of flash on the JooJoo. All adobe had to do is call up FG and help them make their flash beta work better. But apparently it is the fault of hardware that the flash beta is crap.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/09/adobe-distances-itself-from-joojoo-cites-lack-of-direct-relati/
If adobe can't make flash work properly on intel hardware under Linux then there is no way adobe can make flash work properly on a mobile ARM platform.
Ergo good riddance to flash and why I'm happy my desktop has click-to-flash and my apple mobile devices don't have it at all.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/09/adobe-distances-itself-from-joojoo-cites-lack-of-direct-relati/
If adobe can't make flash work properly on intel hardware under Linux then there is no way adobe can make flash work properly on a mobile ARM platform.
Ergo good riddance to flash and why I'm happy my desktop has click-to-flash and my apple mobile devices don't have it at all.
Oh yeah so the rest of the 90% of the desktop market wouldn't matter?
Flash isn't dying soon. HTML5 still can't do everything Flash does and when it can. It will have just as many people programming badly for it as flash does. iAd is a perfect example. One of the talking points a lot of people used are the advertisements being gone if you have no flash. Well... surprise.. you can code ads in an language if there is a market.
By having an option to turn it off it gives people a CHOICE while still sending a message to Adobe to get their stuff in line. It doesn't force everyone wait for the web to think apples way before they can access some of their favorite sites
Erm did you not read the thread? Here is flash working properly on mobile arm:
http://mashable.com/2010/01/06/flash-player-10-1-nexus-one/
It is the lack of hardware that kills the joojoo, Atom processors alone are pretty terrible, the way they get around this in some of the net books is by having nvidia gpus and the ones without the dedicated gpus can't play any type of video at a decent resolution let alone flash video.
That joojoo is garbage they just don't have the resources to make a proper tablet and no amount of software is ever going to fix that.
This is my point exactly. Adobe's solution to make flash work is more hardware. If flash ran on pentiums IIs just a few years ago, it should have no problem on an Atom, which is also more powerful than mobile ARM CPUs.
The proper solution, instead of throwing the JooJoo under the bus would be to help FG implement either an optimized version or a mobile version of flash.
Instead adobe threw FG under the bus and said the solution to their crappy software is more hardware!
I also agree that these tablets from no name companies are and will continue to be total crap.
I think Engadget has mentioned joojoo has sold a total of 30 something odd units.
If Adobe was to customize their solution to every small company's custom os it would be an immense pain.
They have 0% marketshare an OS that is custom. It doesn't even run that well according to reviews and you want a company the size of Adobe to sit down and teach them how to fix their OS and then make sure their flash works well specifically for their build?
The only reason there was any major buzz at all about the Joojoo was the promotion and eventually legal dispute with Arrington of TechCrunch
Or adobe could have just kept their mouths shut. I was just surprised adobe's first response was to blame the hardware maker.
A better response would have been "we would love for the engineers of the JooJoo to contact our developer resource center and we can work together to improve the performance of flash on their platform".
I know what the problem is though, the JooJoo runs linux and if you think flash is bad in MaxOSX, you should try flash under linux. It is utterly pitiful how poorly it runs even on top notch hardware.
Completely wrong.
HTML5 video = works without hardware access
Silverlight video = works without hardware access
MP4 video = works without hardware access
AVI video = works without hardware access
MKV video = works without hardware access
Flash video = works like crap
Must be Apple's fault.
You mean vs telling the truth? They are basically doing damage control.
First thing the general public would think especially after being told so many times about how Flash sucks by apple that it would be Adobe's fault.
Aren't you pretty suprised yourself that the company that made JooJoo did not go through these channels they mentioned in the first place?
Add that to the pending legal troubles, Delayed shipping, strange payment issues and overall mediocre custom os... I think anyone would want to distance themselves from them,
Your missing the point entirely. You can't play the video regardless of the codec if the hardware is not powerful enough in the first place. Atom alone is not powerful enough nor is arm alone but arm in conjunction with a gpu is just the same as atom in conjunction with a gpu is.
It has nothing to do with flash and everything to do with not having hardware powerful enough to play the video in the first place.
It does matter but the rest also matters. if I had a website, losing 10% of the desktop audience and 65% of the mobile audience definitely is not acceptable.
I find it strange that it's usually restaurants who have all flash sites, even though they are the ones people are likely to visit while on the go.
Have you tried HD with any of these
Silverlight video = works without hardware access
MP4 video = works without hardware access
AVI video = works without hardware access
MKV video = works without hardware access
on an Atom or Arm based system?
Well the fact is... People don't code for flash for the mobile audience in the first place so they aren't losing anything.
Don't get me wrong here. I really like where HTML5 is going and after seeing the tech demos i've started incorporating a lot of it into my own web stuff. My personal website which I created a year back I specifically left out flash and used Jquery and Mootools to make it work on the Iphone...
However I do not see any value in specifically targeting a platform that is used WELL by many people on the web. I mean this isn't just a slap in the hand. Apple is out there to kill off flash. Again I do not see at all why they can not give people the option to turn on (having it off by default) flash while giving them a warning about it.
what if adobe is able to right the ship with performance in the next half year? Are you saying because apple doesn't like them everyone who has coded and did their best to make good flash applications and sites should redo their work?
HTML5: works on all modern devices.
Flash: have to wait for Adobe for support.
iPad, ARM based:
H.264 video up to 720p, 30 frames per second, Main Profile level 3.1 with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats
http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/
Flash: have to wait for Adobe for support.
iPad, ARM based:
H.264 video up to 720p, 30 frames per second, Main Profile level 3.1 with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats
http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/
What don't you understand? Adobe can't help them when they don't have the hardware required to run flash in the first place. That's like buying a game that has requirements on the side of the box for a 3ghz C2 duo or better then calling up the company and asking them to help you make it run on your old 486 DX...
And you do realize that Mac OSX is essentially just a closed version of Linux don't you?
Flash shouldn't require hardware acceleration to run at an acceptable level. End of.
If technologies like HTML5 and Javascript can replace most of the functions of Flash while executing with fewer CPU cycle, less power draw and no hardware acceleration (except for h.264) then Flash deserves to die.
As a side note, I do a lot of web development so I have a bit of spare cash and I've done a fair few Flash-based projects including things like custom video players, ebook viewers with page animations (think iBooks but less polished
) and small interactive ads. In other words, I know what I'm doing when it comes to Flash and I still hate it.Now, when a client requests something like inline video for a site, I have a chunk of code that loads HTML5 h.264 for WebKit browsers, Ogg for Firefox and will fall back to a standard Flash player if the user's browser doesn't support HTML5. Couple that with my use of ClickToFlash and I feel like I'm doing everything in my power to bring about the demise of Flash.
Seriously, I can't wait until Flash is dead for that will be a joyous day.
This is in a browser? If you are talking about a native video player ... that is quite a different topic.
http://mashable.com/2010/03/03/flash-nexus-one-demo/
Check the video. This is on the nexus one which is the 1gz snapdragon. I could be wrong but I think the iPad's processor is more powerful than the Nexus One.
Right now only Safari and Chrome supports 5 no? and you can download the plugin for Flash for all... BTW the main argument is not whether one system is superior than the other. There is no doubt that an html5 native app or player uses less resources than flash. The argument is that flash even with all it's deficiencies is still more than a good enough product and used by enough people to warrant being included.
Again, I think the JooJoo is junk, but my understanding is the JooJoo has a Ion GPU, which is more than capable of HD playback.
It is just the fact that either Adobe or NVIDIA does not allow hardware access to the GPU under Linux.
If Adobe wants Flash to be a universal web standard then they need to get their act together in supporting it either with their own engineers supporting Ion under linux for all linux netbook makers, or by getting NVIDIA on board.
While I agree Adobe should be helping out Linux in general there are a lot of different flavors of it.
It's a little unfair for you to say
It's ok apple for you not to support a platform that has a massive adoption rate over the internet..
But it's not ok for you adobe to support platforms that have a small to no (joo joo) adoption rate.
If they put ion in the thing and it still can't play flash then it is total garbage lol my net book with atom and ion plays flash fine in fullscreen using the same desktop flash 10.1. Reading through the engadget review it seems like video is only running off of the cpu not the gpu on the device. I did not even realize it had ion in it based off the performance I assumed it was Intels crappy graphics off the atom CPU.
You are probably right though it is probably an nvidia thing with ion on Linux I can't see Linux not allowing hardware access to flash though being that its an open OS. I would think that was only Apples doing with their closed version of the OS. I don't know enough about it to really delve into that though.