Fan in the bottom? I thought that "heat rises", and exhaust fans at the top of case made more sense. No wonder that they burn out.
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Apple's Glass Jaw revealed by Steam VR test
- Thread starter MacVidCards
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Hell yes, and the community should be glad that this option exists! Otherwise, your $10k, 12 core d700 won't cut the mustard for VR. Slap a Titan on eGPU, and voila! How you guys are bitching about this is beyond me.
And you're completely missing the point. Go configure a high end Boxx or HP workstation and guess what? They will run your computational loads all day long, PLUS game all night. Really simple concept. Apple's GPUs are so antiquated (but at the same exorbitant prices) that you have to look at eGPU for acceptable performance.
Also, have you checked out Steam's library of Mac compatible games? I couldn't honestly describe it as a complete lack.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm a professional who makes a living using FCPX. I understand the differences here, and in general, I support people like MacVidCards who figure out ways to deal with Apple's difficulties. That said, this post is stupid. VR may be the future, but it couldn't have less to do with why I bought a nMP if it tried. These posts make me think that there must be lots of people out there willing to part with thousands of dollars for a nMP for the sake of gaming or something.
If you think it's an unintentional mistake that apple has gotten away from "true power" tower computing, then you are the fool. Has it hurt a segment of the customer-base along the way? Yes! Does that segment matter to AAPL, a company that, depending on the day, is the most valuable company on earth? NO. It barely mattered back in the G4 days, when the PC side was significantly faster and apple WAS the company for graphics / film/ professionals.
I make my living in the film industry, and the answer here is obvious. If you use FCPX, then buy a trashcan with D700's and forget about it. If you want performance using Adobe products, gaming, VR, or whatever else, buy a PC. It's not that complicated.
If you think it's an unintentional mistake that apple has gotten away from "true power" tower computing, then you are the fool. Has it hurt a segment of the customer-base along the way? Yes! Does that segment matter to AAPL, a company that, depending on the day, is the most valuable company on earth? NO. It barely mattered back in the G4 days, when the PC side was significantly faster and apple WAS the company for graphics / film/ professionals.
I make my living in the film industry, and the answer here is obvious. If you use FCPX, then buy a trashcan with D700's and forget about it. If you want performance using Adobe products, gaming, VR, or whatever else, buy a PC. It's not that complicated.
If that ain't the truth...
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Yep. Hot air rises (see Montgolfier brothers 1783).
There is a 1/4 inch slit on the bottom edge with a small fan that pulls air in on one side and expels it on the other. Some additional airflow may come from the flap over the RAM slots, but it's about 2x2 inches.
Or Upton Sinclair: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!"
Yeah, I'll buy a PC gaming rig for VR.
apple will go down the route of iPhone based VR, wake up, until such time stop comparing gaming gear to workstations
And I'm the furthest from an apple apologist of this site, I've also killed so many macs gaming due to heat, the GPU is one of many peoblems macs have when it comes to gaming,
My gaming rig is just fine for VR. When I get serious about it, I'll build a 4xSLI upgrade, I'll have a damn fine machine.
Also wake up complaining about the Flagship 12 core Mac Pro , it's the worst gaming "desktop" they have, the 4 core 3.7 Mac Pro with D700 is the best gaming option.
Look, I have respect for the services you provide to people who own macs, you give them options.
A couple of generations in, VR requirements will drop on hardware , and most people don't care about VR , the Apple Watch is probably more popular and that's saying something.
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Apple never have and never will build gaming machines that are anything but below average. I've build so many gaming rigs and have never owned a Mac that had acceptable gaming performance period , I have also never bought a Mac to game as its main purpose, that would be silly.
I did game on macs in the past, due to the slim designs, they just cooked themselves overtime with heat , ***** gaming machines.
For me the really simple concept is keeping my workstation and gaming rigs separate . My gaming rig is frankly a lot....a lot faster than my workstations, as its watercooled, CPU and GPUs over clocked. Xeons is such , such, such a bad option for gaming purposes. Want to game , build a dedicated PC.
It's just not the titles, drivers Mac side suck! If...if I game boot camp into Windows, same game much better performance win side.
There is so so much wrong with gaming on macs, and apple will not fix any of it, they want you to purchase iPhone games!
Apple does not even care about pros or Mac pros anymore, like that will bother with the gaming aspect of these machines, I would be be shocked if they drop the Mac Pro.
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Well said. Anyone buying a Mac Pro and complaining about its ability to game is a fool who just parted with thier £££.
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Workstation GPUs have no advantage whatsoever for the task the nMP was designed for (=> FCPX). OpenCL performance doesn't differ at all.
Besides that, the nMPs GPUs are closer to "consumer level" than "workstation level". Apple just called them "FirePro" to get some more $$$ out of them, in the end they're down clocked non-ECC GCN 1.0 cards which can't run official FirePro drivers.
A pair of consumer Hawaii cards easily outperforms the nMP D700s in real world video editing performance, as already shown at tonymacx86 (Hackintosh) or barefeats (cMP).
I've got a nMP with D700's and I'm not surprised that it's GPU performance is not the highest. I like the machine, but I do understand it's limitations.
I also have a PC with a 780 GTX. This is a much better gaming/graphics platform, and I can replace this GPU with a couple of 980Ti's in SLI if I want to. No debate whatsoever PC's are faster.
With each of these machines I understand their pros and cons and if I wanted something with exceptionally high GPU performance I wouldn't waste my time looking at a Mac - right tools for the right job and all that lot. As my every day workstation I much prefer the Mac however as OS X and iCloud give me an end-to-end platform from desktop to mobile. Windows and Linux don't even come close to this.
I also have a PC with a 780 GTX. This is a much better gaming/graphics platform, and I can replace this GPU with a couple of 980Ti's in SLI if I want to. No debate whatsoever PC's are faster.
With each of these machines I understand their pros and cons and if I wanted something with exceptionally high GPU performance I wouldn't waste my time looking at a Mac - right tools for the right job and all that lot. As my every day workstation I much prefer the Mac however as OS X and iCloud give me an end-to-end platform from desktop to mobile. Windows and Linux don't even come close to this.
I've joked around MR that they are over glorified 7970s.... They are not though.
Let's see how they hold up from a reliability point of view.
I could argue my titans are workstation cards for all intensive purposes, and my 6 core is a Xeon...fact is both my CPU and GPU are rejecs that did not make the cut to beworkstation CPUs / GPUs
Workstations are not about raw power and performance...... My workstation can run 24/7 ....... My gaming rig....lol...it's damn fast, but I wouldn't use it for anything mission critical
Does not seem to make a big difference; my GTX 770 with 4 GB VRAM is only slightly better than the GTX 680 with 2 GB VRAM.
And another Thread by MVC that shows that Mac Pro is not capable.
http://anandtech.com/show/9874/amd-dual-fiji-gemini-video-card-delayed-to-2016
I suppose this is nothing for him, and never will be. Part about multi GPU setup is most interesting in this context.
Unfortunately to be honest - Dual D500 and D700 setups will not allow for anything than medium, to low end experience of VR. But that is only my opinion. Maybe Apple will be able to extract everything from the architecture. At this moment the only GPU capable of handling VR, truly handling VR is Fury X, because it has proper hardware scheduling and has a LOT of compute power(and this is much more important for VR than for gaming). The rest of GPUs will have huge problems delivering it.
Fortunately - D700 setup has in fact 4096 GCN cores with 850 MHz - so it will behave like Fury Nano, without hardware schedulers. It will be interesting to see how it behaves.
P.S. I would wait with judgment about Mac Pro and his capabilities in VR to actually seeing the behavior of applications on it. Unless you have agenda and you need to prove it to people .
http://anandtech.com/show/9874/amd-dual-fiji-gemini-video-card-delayed-to-2016
I suppose this is nothing for him, and never will be. Part about multi GPU setup is most interesting in this context.
Unfortunately to be honest - Dual D500 and D700 setups will not allow for anything than medium, to low end experience of VR. But that is only my opinion. Maybe Apple will be able to extract everything from the architecture. At this moment the only GPU capable of handling VR, truly handling VR is Fury X, because it has proper hardware scheduling and has a LOT of compute power(and this is much more important for VR than for gaming). The rest of GPUs will have huge problems delivering it.
Fortunately - D700 setup has in fact 4096 GCN cores with 850 MHz - so it will behave like Fury Nano, without hardware schedulers. It will be interesting to see how it behaves.
P.S. I would wait with judgment about Mac Pro and his capabilities in VR to actually seeing the behavior of applications on it
. Unless you have agenda and you need to prove it to people .
Lol.
Just goes to show how garbage that test is, doesn't it.
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As I posted earlier in thread, the AMD GPUs are massively held back by driver software, even in Windows. Metal may help to an extent, and DX12 will help on the PC side, but VR is still in its infancy - by the time it goes mainstream none of the hardware you can buy today will be good enough for it.
I've joked around MR that they are over glorified 7970s.... They are not though.
Let's see how they hold up from a reliability point of view.
I could argue my titans are workstation cards for all intensive purposes, and my 6 core is a Xeon...fact is both my CPU and GPU are rejecs that did not make the cut to beworkstation CPUs / GPUs
Workstations are not about raw power and performance...... My workstation can run 24/7 ....... My gaming rig....lol...it's damn fast, but I wouldn't use it for anything mission critical
Ar... May be that's another failure of the nMP. AFAIK, the "repair programme" is there already, which is due to GPU's problem. The workstation GPU suppose to be very reliable, but the Dx00 seems not quite there yet.
I am not saying that the cMP's / gaming GPU is more reliable, however, the nMP's GPU seems not that reliable either.
That's my guess too, but it's a damn shame. There's no reason they couldn't do both, if they weren't so focused on maximizing profits.
Not important but:
If this was about my GTX 680, then I'd have to say it is the 4GB model and apart from a slight difference in core clock speed this one is the same as a GTX 770 4GB..
Ahw, I guess I can't sit next to my Mac Pro with a ridiculous helmet on looking around with my mouth half open resembling a goof. No VR for me then.
As soon as there is an affordable higher resolution display than 4K I might consider a new GPU.
Just went onto Steam to see how my system performs. Its not available on Mac.
So this whole rant is about software designed for PC, and the Mac tests are from Bootcamp.
So this whole rant is about software designed for PC, and the Mac tests are from Bootcamp.
You didn't notice this bit on just about every screenshot?:
The point, though, is that the Apple systems are useless to inadequate hardware-wise for VR.
There's no business case to be made for supporting VR apps on Apples if no Apples can run them well.
Just for you I included a R9 Nano on nMP 6,1, best nMP result so far. I expected you to be singing your AMD PR heart out.
The HD4000 screen shot is from an eGPU rig or just a plain photoshop fake. I included one from HD5000, flat line at 0.
First time I ran them in Mini and nMP they reported the built in GPUs even though test was clearly running on external. You have to go in and disable the built in with Device Manager to have real one appear.
Perhaps they will stay with the "trash-can-style" nMP.... But now in the correct size ........ Of a REAL trash can... 3 feet high and 2 feet diameter....
. If they stay with Jony Ive's thinness-mania you can use the nMP only for barbecue...
"You want your GPU black-burned or well-done?"
"Rare, please"
"Sorry, but well done is already very difficult"
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I am astounded that I have to explain this to the "creative" types who use Macs but I will try it.
A couple years back I was paid to design a booth for a big YouTube conference in OC. I used Sketch Up because I found I could build it in 3D using Box Truss sections that matched ones we got from vendor. (Aluminum stuff they build rock & roll stages with)
So instead of a drawing from an angle or two, I could show the guy what it would look like from any angle. Want to see what entrants coming in East doors will see, grab with mouse and spin. We came up with better design by being able to place the elements and signage at scale and see from any angle.
But imagine if I could have built the thing in VR. I could have allowed the guy with the Google checkbook to WALK AROUND in his booth.
If you take your mind out of the Apple PR box and allow yourself to think, you can probably imagine many creative endeavors that would be better experienced this way. Remember when Apple appealed to Creative types?
I imagine that part of the disdain we are seeing is that once you put the glasses/headset on you won't be able to admire the impossibly thin case on the computer that is rendering the VR. (Or not rendering it I suppose, as we see here)
A couple years back I was paid to design a booth for a big YouTube conference in OC. I used Sketch Up because I found I could build it in 3D using Box Truss sections that matched ones we got from vendor. (Aluminum stuff they build rock & roll stages with)
So instead of a drawing from an angle or two, I could show the guy what it would look like from any angle. Want to see what entrants coming in East doors will see, grab with mouse and spin. We came up with better design by being able to place the elements and signage at scale and see from any angle.
But imagine if I could have built the thing in VR. I could have allowed the guy with the Google checkbook to WALK AROUND in his booth.
If you take your mind out of the Apple PR box and allow yourself to think, you can probably imagine many creative endeavors that would be better experienced this way. Remember when Apple appealed to Creative types?
I imagine that part of the disdain we are seeing is that once you put the glasses/headset on you won't be able to admire the impossibly thin case on the computer that is rendering the VR. (Or not rendering it I suppose, as we see here)