Apple's remaining surprise....4K at 60Hz.

[MacVidCards]

Quick update, latest 10.9.1 update still has no 4K at 60Hz for OSX using Nvidia cards. Will check with 7970.

 

[flux73]

I don't even care (too much) about 4K. I just want a TB2 display with the new non-reflective laminated display. Was going to get a TB display until I saw it side by side with an iMac. It's a pretty big difference.

 

[unfragile]

I don't even care (too much) about 4K. I just want a TB2 display with the new non-reflective laminated display. Was going to get a TB display until I saw it side by side with an iMac. It's a pretty big difference.

I'm with you.

I'd love to see a Thunderbolt display with TB2, USB3.0, ethernet and the same design of the new iMac (could be thinner because it will not need that bump in the middle to support a 3.5" harddrive)

 

[jbg232]

Another update from apple's support site which just released this FAQ titled: Thunderbolt ports and displays: Frequently asked questions (FAQ)

22. Can I connect a Mini DisplayPort monitor or monitor using a Mini DisplayPort adapter to a Thunderbolt port on my Thunderbolt-equipped Mac?

Yes. A Mini DisplayPort display or a display connecting with a Mini DisplayPort to VGA, DVI, or HDMI adapter will work just like it was connecting to a Mini DisplayPort connector when plugging in directly to the Thunderbolt connector on your Apple computer. Click here for more information on Mini DisplayPort connections and adapters.



23. How do I connect my Mini DisplayPort monitor or monitor using a Mini DisplayPort adapter to my Thunderbolt-equipped Mac when I have other Thunderbolt devices connected?

When connecting a Mini DisplayPort display or a display using a Mini DisplayPort adapter to a Thunderbolt peripheral (except as described in question 14), make sure the display is connected at the end of the Thunderbolt chain. You can use only one Mini DisplayPort device in the Thunderbolt chain.

Note: Systems with more than one Thunderbolt port, like an iMac, can have more than one Mini DisplayPort monitor or monitor connected with a Mini DisplayPort adapter connected as each Thunderbolt port can support one Mini DisplayPort display.



24. Can I connect my Mini DisplayPort monitor or monitor using a Mini DisplayPort adapter to my Apple Thunderbolt Display?

Mini DisplayPort Monitors or Monitors connecting with Mini DisplayPort adapters will not function when connected through a Thunderbolt Display. They must be connected directly to the Thunderbolt port on the computer or to a non-display device as indicated above.



25. How do I connect to my 4k Ultra HDTV or monitor via Thunderbolt?

4k Ultra HDTVs and monitors are supported over HDMI or with a Thunderbolt to HDMI adapter that supports Ultra HDTVs.

Not looking good given that late 2013 rMBPs and nMPs are only HDMI 1.4 and thus only support 4K at 30Hz.

 

[Nugget]

Wow, nice catch. I agree, that does not sound encouraging.

 

[theSeb]

The information is related to HDMI specifically. What about connecting via miniDP (TB2) to the Display Port input on the Sharp (or the miniDP port on the Dell). Surely since DP 1.2 is supported by TB2 that means 4K at 60 Hz should be supported, at least at hardware level?

 

[deconstruct60]

Surely since DP 1.2 is supported by TB2 that means 4K at 60 Hz should be supported, at least at hardware level?

It isn't just hardware. For the Dell (and most other UHD ) monitors you'd need DP 1.2 and MST (multiple stream transport ) driver support. Yes, there should be support for all of the aspects of DP 1.2 ( including MST ) but it is not unheard of for folks to cut curners. PCI-e standard has optional standards outlind support for hot-plug and play and yet relative few folks implemented it and also had hiccups with pragmatically support for the same thing with Thunderbolt connections.

----------

...
Not looking good given that late 2013 rMBPs and nMPs are only HDMI 1.4 and thus only support 4K at 30Hz.

The FAQ also just says Thunderbolt to HDMI adapter. That is probably closer to DisplayPort v1.1./1.2 to HDMI adpater. That may very welll be the same HHDM 1.4 limitation. [ there are DP to HDMI 1.4 ones already ].

That said it would be surprising if there is a forked 10.9.1.1mp version of Mavericks being tracked that winks in DP v1.2 MST support at the very end coupled directly to the Mac Pro release. The folks with early access beta Mac Pros should be getting something seperate from generic developer builds of the OS anyway. Or the 4K support doesn't clear up until 10.9.2 (or 10.9.3). 10.9.1 is more of a "these glitches shouldn't have even launched" fix. 10.9.2 is likely more of the "these were never going to make the launch window" updates.



It would be rather goofy for a Mac Pro with 6 fully capable DP v1.2 sockets to require a TB->HDMI dongle to support a 4K monitor. The non-crippled in capability 4K monitors have more than just HDMI sockets on them.

 

[Mr. Retrofire]

In OSX 10.9 there is currently NO WAY to run the display at 60Hz.

So, as it stands, 4K is kind of NOT READY for OSX yet.

Correction: So, as it stands, OSX is kind of NOT READY for 4K yet.

 

[theSeb]

@deconstruct, hence why I mentioned the hardware bit specifically.

 

[MattDSLR]

Do I infer correctly from your post that there will be a "just for Apple" 4K monitor? If so, what does this imply for other brands?

I like my 30 ACD, but frankly, my NEC is a much better display.

I so agree have the same monitors

 

[mrsavage1]

With the new 10.9.1 is there any update to allow 4k 60hz ?

 

[Macalway]

They really need to upgrade the TD. I sold mine as it started to look like a museum piece to me. I mean, that thing was HUGE, not to mention the glare and weight. I could barely carry it.

Progress should be quicker

 

[d-m-a-x]

is there any hope for 30 bit color support? PC is kind of tempting in that regard

 

[ABCDEF-Hex]

Amazon's Original Programming Will Be Shot in 4K

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/amazon-filming-shows-4k,news-17991.html

The content move has started.

 

[thevidness]

apparently the new Mac Pro ships with his own build of 10.9 which presumably supports 4k output.
have a look at the short video clip in this article
http://mobile.theverge.com/2013/12/19/5227466/the-new-mac-pro-2013-hands-on
at ~1:07 the system information dialog displays build number 13A4023

 

[penningtonj]

So I've got the new Mac Pro and two Dell UP3214Q monitors and the new 10.9.2 build (13C39) and still no luck at 4K resolution (or even 2560 x 1440) at 60hz. Was able to get 1900 x something at 60hz with this build but not 2560 or 4K.

DP1.2 just craps out (all kinds of colors, lines, etc.).

If anyone has any success getting these to work please post.

 

[nathan43082]

So I've got the new Mac Pro and two Dell UP3214Q monitors and the new 10.9.2 build (13C39) and still no luck at 4K resolution (or even 2560 x 1440) at 60hz. Was able to get 1900 x something at 60hz with this build but not 2560 or 4K.

DP1.2 just craps out (all kinds of colors, lines, etc.).

If anyone has any success getting these to work please post.

Are you plugging the monitors into the correct Thunderbolt ports? There are three Thunderbolt channels to the CPU/GPUs, each with two external ports and one with the additional HDMI port. You cannot connect two 4k monitors to the same channel. Check your connection guide if you don't know.

If that's not the issue, then I have no idea.

 

[VirtualRain]

So I've got the new Mac Pro and two Dell UP3214Q monitors and the new 10.9.2 build (13C39) and still no luck at 4K resolution (or even 2560 x 1440) at 60hz. Was able to get 1900 x something at 60hz with this build but not 2560 or 4K.

DP1.2 just craps out (all kinds of colors, lines, etc.).

If anyone has any success getting these to work please post.

It seems like the latest build still doesn't have support for Dell's implementation of MST.

For background... Anand mentioned in his review of the nMP that the current 4K panels like this rely on MST (multi-stream-transport) to achieve 60Hz which divides each frame into two halves and sends those signals separately over DP1.2. The display then reconstructs the two halves into a seamless single frame. Since each panel manufacturer can do this differently, the OS has to explicitly support that vendors implementation. He noted that at that time, that only the Sharp/Asus panels were supported. It seems like that hasn't changed. There's no guarantee that Apple will ever support Dell's approach, but you would hope they do. The ultimate solution to this problem, of course, is to get rid of MST altogether which the next generation of 4K panels should do.

 

[kamcma]

Possibly dumb question:

Once a display comes out that supports 4k @ 60 Hz as SST, aka not the current MST "hack", current graphics cards with DP 1.2 will support that, right? As in, that won't require DP 1.3?

 

[jbg232]

Possibly dumb question:

Once a display comes out that supports 4k @ 60 Hz as SST, aka not the current MST "hack", current graphics cards with DP 1.2 will support that, right? As in, that won't require DP 1.3?

My understanding is that DP 1.2 cannot do 4K@60hz EXCEPT under MST, while DP 1.3 is defining it's 4K@60hz output AS SST. The newest radeon cards coming up will support SST. Thus, to answer your question, from my understanding, DP 1.2 will not ever support single stream transport of 4K @ 60hz.

 

[Browsing]

My understanding is that DP 1.2 cannot do 4K@60hz EXCEPT under MST, while DP 1.3 is defining it's 4K@60hz output AS SST. The newest radeon cards coming up will support SST. Thus, to answer your question, from my understanding, DP 1.2 will not ever support single stream transport of 4K @ 60hz.

Crap...

This is a big problem for me. I am very interested in moving to 4K during the lifetime of the nMP I was planning to purchase. I don't want to have to select only 4k MST monitors in the future...

I've been patching things up for two years waiting for this upgrade... it looks like I need to wait even longer.

 

[kamcma]

My understanding is that DP 1.2 cannot do 4K@60hz EXCEPT under MST, while DP 1.3 is defining it's 4K@60hz output AS SST. The newest radeon cards coming up will support SST. Thus, to answer your question, from my understanding, DP 1.2 will not ever support single stream transport of 4K @ 60hz.

Exactly what I wanted to know. Thanks for the answer.

 

[Browsing]

My understanding is that DP 1.2 cannot do 4K@60hz EXCEPT under MST, while DP 1.3 is defining it's 4K@60hz output AS SST. The newest radeon cards coming up will support SST. Thus, to answer your question, from my understanding, DP 1.2 will not ever support single stream transport of 4K @ 60hz.

Sorry, I was so disappointed that I forgot to thank jbg232.

I have been looking high and low for this information.

Thanks again.

(crap)

 

[phrehdd]

It seems that the ability to play 4k at 24 fps would be an ideal match the next upgrade from blu ray which usually is 24 fps. Though this is not the entire gambit of media, it is a good start.

1.4a HDMI can handle up to 29.xxx frames at 4k. One would have to move to HDMI 2 to get the entire range of 4k options. I can happily live with 1.4a and 24 fps for now given that a set up of movies at 4k, TV etc at 1080p at 29x59x.

 

[kamcma]

My understanding is that DP 1.2 cannot do 4K@60hz EXCEPT under MST, while DP 1.3 is defining it's 4K@60hz output AS SST. The newest radeon cards coming up will support SST. Thus, to answer your question, from my understanding, DP 1.2 will not ever support single stream transport of 4K @ 60hz.

But hold on ... I guess I just wonder why, if DP 1.2 has enough bandwidth to send that many pixels pretending to be two displays, why that would somehow not be enough bandwidth to send exactly the same number of pixels correctly arranged as one display?

Just a poorly considered spec?