Apple's Work on Touchscreen Macs: What We Know So Far

[koelsh]

newton4000,

You are correct, Steve Jobs was incredible and not a god for all times. However, one of the things that made him great was his commitment to what he believed was good. Many times this meant doing the opposite of offering people what they wanted. In fact, seeking to serve a market or audience by simply providing what they want can be a chaotic, dynamic, costly fool's errand. I admit that I can get carried away with my reactions and responses to Apple's product direction, rumors, etc., but I don't think that resisting touch screens for laptops (considering all we know about Apple's product history) is bad thinking. There is certainly support for such a device in the marketplace. But is it something that is revolutionary, helpful, intuitive, etc. In other words, there isn't enough demand and demonstration of effective implementation to suggest that it is "bad thinking" to at least be cautious of Apple spending time, resources, etc. to offer it for the small segment* of their user base who want it or that the number of new users would be monumental.

When I put on my Apple Super Fan hat, I say things like, "If and when Apple does it, it will be done well." But I find that it is more and more difficult to pull out that hat and wear it with confidence lately. As a result, I am more skeptical of Apple tackling things that are niche, or gimmicky. I don't think that I am guilty of "bad thinking," but time will tell.

*Admittedly, this is a purely anecdotal analysis of the Apple user market. If you want to crush me over this, I concede the point. It is my perception in this case.

An aside to what made Steve great is a quote from Tim Cook.

“Steve would flip on something so fast that you would forget that he was the one taking the 180 degree polar opposite position the day before.”

He was committed to making the best possible product for customers (that is possible to make). The details on how it would be expressed would change. When the iPad was introduced it was a 3rd product category between the phone and laptop because that was the best option in 2010.

I feel the same as you about it being more and more difficult to put on the Apple Super Fan hat in the last 5 years. The entire product line feels frozen in place with the Apple Watch being the only new hardware family. Everything else is on the same trajectory as the early 2010's.

It feels like Steve was ultimately going for a single device capable of everything. Something we today would interpret as an iPad capable of everything the Mac is and well beyond. There's a video I haven't been able to find for a while from the 70's or 80's with Steve in front of a bank of computers and he tells the interviewing reporter something to the effect that one day you'll hold computers and touch them.

This is also anecdotal on my part and will also concede

 

[steve09090]

I do as well. They make one for the the phone, so tell me a good reason we have to buy one (if you don't want a free one with ads) for iPad. Yeah it's minor, but ridiculous.

I see the iPhone calculator as no different to using Siri. It’s functional but doesn’t have a bunch of features. iPad is a different

One good reason, and it’s all I have: Sure, they could scale it up, but can you imagine the developers crying out if Apple stole all their revenue with a free calculator app? I think that horse has bolted Unfortunately. They should have done it earlier, but now it’s too late.

Siri does indeed need to be improved. It either fails basic tasks or requires magic words and grammar. When it takes twice as long to do something via voice with a 50% success rate on a good day what really is the point?

I was using Apple Watch as an analogy of how ridiculous it is to attempt to treat iPad as a touch-screen Mac as Black Tiger was expressing. It's gimped to be exactly halfway between iPhone and the Mac. Yet Apple keeps pushing iPad as your next computer and some users seem determined to follow suit.

A good friend does ALL his Adobe Lightroom developing on iPad now. I do mine on the Macbook Air. We have different workflow's I guess. That’s the beauty of choice. So for some, it does everything. I don’t use my MacBook to browse, play games, check my emails. I would Use my iPad for so many photography tools, like Lidar scans for Rear estate or model release for portraits. Things that the MacBook doesn’t excel in.

I guess it’s portable uses versus complex tasks. I like the smaller 11“ form factor for some things and the 13.6” on the Mac for others. I can't imagine doing full photoshop on 11” and I can't imagine doing a LiDAR scan with 13.6”.

 

[F23]

I assume you don’t have an iPhone, then?

is an iPhone a laptop screen?

 

[ducknalddon]

The main problem I see with this isn't that there is some functionality I don't need that I can ignore. Rather it is that the UI is going to be degraded in order to support touch. This is exactly the problem Microsoft has had with Windows. I don't know anybody who thinks they are more productive on recent Windows releases. It's been a nightmare for developers as well.

 

[downpour]

I’d rather have Wacom pen support on the touchpad as that would actually be useful for Photoshop, signatures, notes etc. It doesn’t have to be Wacom tech, but the main thing is it should be battery free like Wacom. Apple pencils are a pain as they are never charged when you need them and they are bad for the environment with all those totally unnecessary batteries. That said, even Apple Pencil support would be better than nothing.

I only ever use the touchscreen on Windows machines in tablet mode, and I only use tablet mode because I am using the Wacom pen. Wacom input via a large touchpad would be more than enough most of the time. They could even make the touchpad into a second screen if they were feeling generous. It’s a much more logical place for it than replacing the function keys 🤦‍♂️.

 

[piattj]

Touchscreen? No thanks.

 

[Piggie]

Just in case anyone misunderstood my post from yesterday. I was not suggesting to ditch the keyboard.
I was more saying that given every child on this planet now who has access to a personal computing device will from the moment they can remember see computing devices as tactile devices with SOME features that are naturally best handled with touch input, will most likely feel that this control method OPTION should not be torn away from them later on.

People here, including myself saying "Well I've never found it useful or I don't want it"
Are not these people who have been using a touch screen since they were 2 or 3 years old.

And of course, the current UI's which have been built for keyboards by people who never had touch screens till 20 years ago absolute maximum.

For a moment............... Let's get rid of all the adults, and keyboards.....

Let's have a world full of 2 / 3 year olds all with their touch screens.
Let them grow up into young adults and see the need for more powerful computing devices.

IMHO there is not a chance in hell that a non touch screen device would get developed and be considered the NORM for computing.

Out current keyboard, non touch screen and UI based only on a keyboard/mouse is the leftover from years of evolution from the typewriter and cathode ray tube.

It's going to change. UI's are going to change.
Now, the question is how can a UI accommodate both input methods. that's the tricky thing.

Could perhaps aspects of the UI alter in real time when it detects finger input?
Could there be two modes it flips between?
Hard one to get right indeed.

 

[Xand&Roby]

Just in case anyone misunderstood my post from yesterday. I was not suggesting to ditch the keyboard.
I was more saying that given every child on this planet now who has access to a personal computing device will from the moment they can remember see computing devices as tactile devices with SOME features that are naturally best handled with touch input, will most likely feel that this control method OPTION should not be torn away from them later on.

People here, including myself saying "Well I've never found it useful or I don't want it"
Are not these people who have been using a touch screen since they were 2 or 3 years old.

And of course, the current UI's which have been built for keyboards by people who never had touch screens till 20 years ago absolute maximum.

For a moment............... Let's get rid of all the adults, and keyboards.....

Let's have a world full of 2 / 3 year olds all with their touch screens.
Let them grow up into young adults and see the need for more powerful computing devices.

IMHO there is not a chance in hell that a non touch screen device would get developed and be considered the NORM for computing.

Out current keyboard, non touch screen and UI based only on a keyboard/mouse is the leftover from years of evolution from the typewriter and cathode ray tube.

It's going to change. UI's are going to change.
Now, the question is how can a UI accommodate both input methods. that's the tricky thing.

Could perhaps aspects of the UI alter in real time when it detects finger input?
Could there be two modes it flips between?
Hard one to get right indeed.

On the other hand, I'm just to throw away keyboards, because my children and their grandchildren don't know what to do with a tool born as an evolution of a typewriter that was technology when my grandfather or his father were children.
The new generations need tools born for them, not for me, and they need them because in turn their children will need new tools.
But this has nothing to do with a portable touch screen Mac: a laptop is an archaic tool, it's a portable typewriter that doesn't have to interface with a mainframe because it has everything included, a 1970 tool.
The laptop is dead, as before him the desktop computing died and the AIO also had its time.
Some tools will remain for specific tasks, such as the Mac Pro, but not that abomination of millions of pieces of iMac, MacBook, iPhone, every year.
But the solution is not limited tablets, on the contrary it is no longer even the screens and the touch screen, all outdated stuff.
The solution is immersive interfaces, digital assistants who perform complex tasks with voice commands (i.e. science fiction 60s/70s, from THX 1138), immersive glasses (science fiction 80s and 90s), really intelligent AI (not that today's nonsense of deferred human intelligence), ZUI (again, science fiction 60s), in short, everything that we should have already been wearing for a long time and we do not have because the commercial aspect is more important than the technological advancement. We should be at the third, fourth, fifth generations of those technologies, at the evolutions of those paradigms, instead we are still here with a screen, a keyboard and a pointing device.

 

[Piggie]

On the other hand, I'm just to throw away keyboards, because my children and their grandchildren don't know what to do with a tool born as an evolution of a typewriter that was technology when my grandfather or his father were children.
The new generations need tools born for them, not for me, and they need them because in turn their children will need new tools.
But this has nothing to do with a portable touch screen Mac: a laptop is an archaic tool, it's a portable typewriter that doesn't have to interface with a mainframe because it has everything included, a 1970 tool.
The laptop is dead, as before him the desktop computing died and the AIO also had its time.
Some tools will remain for specific tasks, such as the Mac Pro, but not that abomination of millions of pieces of iMac, MacBook, iPhone, every year.
But the solution is not limited tablets, on the contrary it is no longer even the screens and the touch screen, all outdated stuff.
The solution is immersive interfaces, digital assistants who perform complex tasks with voice commands (i.e. science fiction 60s/70s, from THX 1138), immersive glasses (science fiction 80s and 90s), really intelligent AI (not that today's nonsense of deferred human intelligence), ZUI (again, science fiction 60s), in short, everything that we should have already been wearing for a long time and we do not have because the commercial aspect is more important than the technological advancement. We should be at the third, fourth, fifth generations of those technologies, at the evolutions of those paradigms, instead we are still here with a screen, a keyboard and a pointing device.

Honesty I feel we are going to be stuck with the Qwerty Keyboard for a long long long time to come.
It's so burned into the fabric of communication, even with graphic representations of it on a screen it's a struggle to see it vanish.
Not unless some amazing speech/thought detection device ever gets built.
We need/like tactile/physical ways to input data and replacing the keyboard as it is now I'd imagine is almost impossible.

Mechanically separating the keyboard physically from the screen would be one path to go down.
But the tech isn't there yet to put a full power machine into something as thin as a MacBook lid/screen.

So many have tried to improve the keyboard but every change has been rejected.
Voice is going to be the key perhaps?
Though No. as people can't control thoughts well enough

But again, Voice in an office environment?
It's a tough idea to dump the keyboard.

 

[OliOliOliOli]

you never used a iPhone or iPad ?

It’s not the same!
Do you like people put fingerprints on your Tv?

I like to have my working screens clean, even my iPhone is cleaned multiple time in a day.

 

[StevieD100]

If I were to buy a Mac with this [redacted] feature, I'd never use it. Siri is the same. I just wish that I could wipe it entirely from my system. I find that it still gets in the way when I don't want it but I have to say that it is a lot less intrusive since I bought a Mac without a touchbar.
If I want to use a touch interface then I'll use my iPad. Different devices, different use cases.
The Mac is for creativity.
The iPad is for consumption

 

[spinedoc77]

The main problem I see with this isn't that there is some functionality I don't need that I can ignore. Rather it is that the UI is going to be degraded in order to support touch. This is exactly the problem Microsoft has had with Windows. I don't know anybody who thinks they are more productive on recent Windows releases. It's been a nightmare for developers as well.

The productivity issue isn't with Windows being more touch friendly, it's with how Microsoft is dumbing everything down to resemble macOS. Perfect example, dumbing the Windows taskbar to be just like macOS' dockbar, terrible terrible decision that I can guarantee they will double back on in the coming months. This whole Windows sucks because it's touch friendly thing is, IMO, pure FUD. I use it every single day and have zero issue while using it in touch mode documenting patient notes and showing studies, or desktop mode writing narratives and doing research. Every single limitation I've hit in Windows is some feature they dumbed down to be more like macOS, or even worse iPadOS. That's the reason I use a Surface Pro at work, I can have a tablet, but when I need a workhorse it turns right into a desktop no problem.

 

[SilverWalker]

You have an Apple Polishing Cloth for the greasy fingerprints on the screen.

Apple Releases Polishing Cloth for $19

Apple today released a microfiber Polishing Cloth accessory, designed for cleaning the screens of Apple devices, for $19. Although today's...

www.macrumors.com

Tim probably put out a memo: "We need to sell more polishing clothes, quick, someone come up with a sales plan..."

 

[Mr Rib]

I'd much rather see a large format, stationary tablet by apple rather than this - but hey, I'm in the niche market for one since I illustrate and animate (and one of the tools I use is a Wacom Cintiq tablet). This will never happen but one can dream.

 

[StuBeck]

I'm not sure why people get so antzy about this. This is not Jobs Apple anymore, there will be models with and without a touch scrren, and if you don't want to use the touch screen, you don't need to. I'm assuming you will also be able to disable it like you can in Windows.

I've come back to Apple after 10 years away and it feels a bit weird to not have it. I largely use a touch screen to scroll when reading, and for clicking something when I can't find the mouse (yes, this is a me problem). I also have a 4th gen iPad Pro that doesn't really fill the niche with the limitations iPadOS has. Not having a touch screen really only stops me from having to clean my screen every week to now doing it every two weeks. Its not as crazy as people seem to think it will be.

 

[spinedoc77]

Except… that’s not how people use touch on a laptop. That makes the mistake of assuming that touch would be the primary or only way of interacting with a touch-enabled laptop. It doesn’t work like that. Interaction modes add to each other not displace each other. When you got a mouse or trackpad you didn’t stop using the keyboard. You just had a tool that you could use for some purposes.

When I’ve had a windows laptop with a touch screen, touch was something that I used for some actions. Tap a button, scroll a panel, swipe another control. Some actions just felt more direct, more engaged with touch. Others were better with the trackpad or the keyboard. sometimes using the keyboard or mouse felt tiring the touch was a relief. One way to avoid repetative stress injuries is the switch-up input methods occasionally so you aren’t using the same hand movements all the time. Touch gives you an alternate method for that.

Apple sells iPads that many of us use mainly in landscape mode with a keyboard case. With mine, I’m sometimes using a trackpad and sometimes touch. Does it seem so unusual to use touch on an iPad? Why not on a Mac, too?

As someone who treats patients with RSI injuries the trackpad is what is ergonomically terrible, worsening with how close the laptop is to your body and how much you have to constrain your arm, wrist, hand, and fingers for hours every day. I'm not saying a touchscreen is a panacea, but that mixed use where you give your trackpad hand a break and do *some* things on the touchscreen is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. For me I like to scroll, pinch, and zoom with my touchscreen, but will probably use the trackpad as more of a mouse to select smaller things. This whole vision of your arm hung in the air with the laptop 3 feet in front of you is not how any body uses their laptop. But really the name of the game with RSI is the "repetitive" part, any repetitive action is bad, even touchscreen use, that's why a mixed use model is a lot better than just a single input model. That's why you should also incorporate a mouse (especially ergonomic mice like vertically positioned ones) or possibly even a trackball into that routine just to change around which areas are getting repetitively abused.

And for those with greasy hands, for the love of everything good wash your hands more often! It's great for public health. Although I wash my hands between each and every patient, I've found that at home where I don't wash my hands as often the oleophobic screen on my Surface Pro works very well at keeping oils off of the screen. Even my LG 16 2-in-1, which I'm not sure if it has an oleophobic screen or not, doesn't pick up fingerprints (now the magnesium back of it is another story!).

 

[ocnitsa]

digression:
I think there is a problem in our ability to imagine where Apple might be going with new product designs (touch screen, VR/AR goggles/glasses, cars, etc.) based on our limited views which focus on how other companies have built/designed/marketed and failed at those product designs.

The Apple Watch is a decent example...the health care functionality and Apple's slow ramping up of additional sensors and functions does not correlate with other smartwatches that came first and floundered to find footing. Yes, Fitbit and others were working on and popularizing purely fitness based approaches. But, Apple had a vision was a little different about how this might grow and I think it's created something useful in ways most people wouldn't have imagined at the onset...I see a lot more Apple watches in the wild is all I'm saying...and they continue to add more functionality.

I don't think Apple's new tech often come with KILLER apps, despite critics outcries that with out a KILLER app their new products will surely be gimmicks and fail. I think they evolve towards KILLER functionality and constellations of apps.

more to the point:
I'd like to see a device added to their iPad/Mac line that straddles the space between iPad and Mac. Something that is dockable with a keyboard/mouse/touchpad/27 inch display that gives me my Mac workspace that I use at my desk in the office. Something that I can detach and hook up to a projector in the classroom. Something that I can take notes on in meetings or do graphic design on with my Apple Pencil. Apple silicon seems to make this possible and less problematic than other products you might be thinking of when you screw up your face as if you've smelled something horrible at the thought of a hybrid Mac/iPad. My iPad Pro has the same CPU as one of my Macbooks at work.

This doesn't mean that Apple is moving towards a hybrid product for EVERYONE. They understand that different use cases and segments of business require certain features that a powerful Mac offers. I don't see those going away unless we end up getting some fairly small CPU GPU tech in the future that could fit in an iPad size (although I guess there is no reason why that couldn't be built into some sort of dock/keyboard.

Maybe it would be more useful for Apple to work on connectivity between iPad's and Macs, however, to create new software interfaces and means for building something that gives one more than the sum of the parts.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

As the iPad ecossystem economics fade away for most people due to cumbersome technical and policy constraints this might be the best option for Apple to keep the iPad dream alive for productivity in the next 10 years. For consumption alone, people have a lot of great options today.

An MBA … will see.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

digression:
I think there is a problem in our ability to imagine where Apple might be going with new product designs (touch screen, VR/AR goggles/glasses, cars, etc.) based on our limited views which focus on how other companies have built/designed/marketed and failed at those product designs.

The Apple Watch is a decent example...the health care functionality and Apple's slow ramping up of additional sensors and functions does not correlate with other smartwatches that came first and floundered to find footing. Yes, Fitbit and others were working on and popularizing purely fitness based approaches. But, Apple had a vision was a little different about how this might grow and I think it's created something useful in ways most people wouldn't have imagined at the onset...I see a lot more Apple watches in the wild is all I'm saying...and they continue to add more functionality.

I don't think Apple's new tech often come with KILLER apps, despite critics outcries that with out a KILLER app their new products will surely be gimmicks and fail. I think they evolve towards KILLER functionality and constellations of apps.

more to the point:
I'd like to see a device added to their iPad/Mac line that straddles the space between iPad and Mac. Something that is dockable with a keyboard/mouse/touchpad/27 inch display that gives me my Mac workspace that I use at my desk in the office. Something that I can detach and hook up to a projector in the classroom. Something that I can take notes on in meetings or do graphic design on with my Apple Pencil. Apple silicon seems to make this possible and less problematic than other products you might be thinking of when you screw up your face as if you've smelled something horrible at the thought of a hybrid Mac/iPad. My iPad Pro has the same CPU as one of my Macbooks at work.

This doesn't mean that Apple is moving towards a hybrid product for EVERYONE. They understand that different use cases and segments of business require certain features that a powerful Mac offers. I don't see those going away unless we end up getting some fairly small CPU GPU tech in the future that could fit in an iPad size (although I guess there is no reason why that couldn't be built into some sort of dock/keyboard.

Maybe it would be more useful for Apple to work on connectivity between iPad's and Macs, however, to create new software interfaces and means for building something that gives one more than the sum of the parts.

I agree. But continuity is not robust enough even after such a long time. It fails every day on me so much so that I no longer count on it. On the same register … TC removed back to my Mac …

 

[Faizaldev]

Every era has its generation, maybe the new generation likes touch screens.
If Apple doesn't look at it, it will lose a new market.

 

[rodriguise]

A desktop optimized gesture experience using the AR headset would be a more valuable tool.

 

[aggiesrwe03]

How about we put a sim tray or eSIM instead and call it good?!?!?

 

[CarAnalogy]

everyone ? you are not working with creative apps. Sad to see all those office guys using Apple laptops today. Go buy a Windows machine. Apple was better when most users were creative people.

No, I’m not working with creative apps. The creatives have very little need for IT because they just need the creative apps. Apple has never had a problem in this market.

I’m talking about literally everyone else. Which is a much larger market.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Really? I’ve been using Macs since my SE-FDHD, and I would like a touchscreen Mac.

How often would you use the screen??

 

[DeepIn2U]

Which would also suck. There's already a touch-screen keyboard on an iPad, and Apple specifically makes a hardware keyboard so you don't have to use it any more than necessary.

You remember the Touch Bar right?!