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ksec

macrumors 68020
Dec 23, 2015
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Personally I don't want nor care about 8K. I know it's going to be the next standard for high-end cameras though -- but these are for pros living in a different world than mine.

Wait and see if it somehow catches up with the smartphone market. So far, Samsung's 8K capable smartphone doesn't see to deliver that great of a footage, but I must admit not really following what's going on.

As for super huge screen TV... what would be the recommended viewing distance for such a beast?

Some people use a Rule of Thumb as 5 feet for 50", 6 feet for 60" and 7 feet for 70". You can try this yourself. To me it felt like sitting in the front row of the cinema and makes me feel sick.

Best bet is based on recommended Viewing Angle somewhere between 26° to 36°, on a 16:9 TV, 70" would give somewhere between 7.8 Feet to 11.1 Feet of view distance. Remember this is the Screen to your Eye, so in actual placement of your Sofa to your TV set will need to be more than that.

I know lots of Americans living in houses would likely have a living room that could fit that and possibly even larger at 108" or something like the Samsung microLED Wall. But I think for vast majority of the population lives in Cities, 4K hit the sweet spot. Not to mention you really want the extra bitrate for something like HDR.
 

giggles

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Dec 15, 2012
1,051
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Not sure how we ended up talking about the whole 8K workflow from shooting to editing to TVs, but one thing is clear: with the M1S, the M1T and then the M2, Apple is clearly allowing that for a lot more people.
The M1 Mini can already edit RED 8K raw in DaVinci Resolve by halving the resolution of the preview to 4K.
The M2 will probably not even need to resort to dropping the preview resolution.

 

Frank Philips

macrumors member
Nov 8, 2020
82
44
Kyoto, Japan
Some people use a Rule of Thumb as 5 feet for 50", 6 feet for 60" and 7 feet for 70". You can try this yourself. To me it felt like sitting in the front row of the cinema and makes me feel sick.

Gosh, that is crazy close.
Here in Japan it's recommended to be at least 2 to 2.5 meters (about 8 feet) away from the screen, and most TVs are between 40 and 50 inches.
 
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Polly Mercocet

macrumors 6502
Aug 17, 2020
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Not true, an 8k camera is half of the reason why 8k is better, doesn't matter what display you are using even if it's not an 8k display.

5 megapixles is 2592 × 1944, 12 is 4290 x 2800. Did you notice an improvement between picture quality in the iphone 4 and the iphone 6? I bet you did. Neither of those screens ran close to the resolution of their cameras, and they are both small screens.

12 megapixels is similar to 4k resolution, and yet you could see its improved image quality on a screen that is less than 5 inches. Makes the argument that "you need a big tv to see the difference between 1080p and 4k" sound pretty silly doesn't it? There isn't some magical property about video that makes it require a giant screen to see some resolution changes, it works the same way pictures do.

People come up with all sorts of nonsense to make themselves feel better when their tech is no longer the latest and greatest. I have a 1440p monitor, do I wish I could afford a 4k monitor and a new graphics card to run it so I get the same framerate as I do with my current setup? Of course, but I don't need to lie to myself and pretend that there's no difference in order to be happy with what I have. People are weird.

Always with these sly ad homs on internet forums man. "The only reason you disagree with me is because you're too poor to afford new technology."

I am typing this on a £1.5k M1 MBA I just got this week. I have a 4K monitor which according to yourself you cannot afford. It's plugged into a brand new computer which can play high bitrate 4K video flawlessly. I also have two 4K TV's.

So I am categorically not trying to justify sticking only to 1080p because I cannot afford better tech. I said myself, I agree that even 1440p is a noticeable improvement over 1080p. I've known this for years because I've been using high res laptops with resolutions above 1440p for half a decade. I'm typing on one right now. I have three of them running in front of me as we speak.

The point I and others are making, which you seem to miss, is that there is a difference between professionals shooting in the highest resolution possible, and what is actually noticeable to the end user. A pro will shoot in 8K or take 100 megapixel photos because it allows for cropping, zooming, and other editing without compromising quality. If you are making a movie you want your master files to be in the highest resolution possible.

But as others have already said, this does not translate to 8K being a noticeable improvement to the end user. At a screen size of 40-50 inches, the difference between 4K and 8K is literally not perceptible to the human eye at a normal viewing distance.

The key factor here is pixels per inch rather than resolution alone. Now if you have a huge 100+ inch screen, because it's so large you may well benefit from the extra PPI. But at 40-50 inches you just won't. I'm far from the first person to say this.

As I said in my previous comment, I believe future advances in display technology will rest less on simply upping the resolution every few years and more on improvements in HDR and similar technologies that enhance the overall viewing experience with a wider range of brighter colours and whatnot.

It seems like content providers agree as well. Netflix and more recently Apple have put a lot of emphasis on HDR when advertising new additions to their respective streaming services. Apple has also been adding HDR support across new devices, both in the displays and cameras.

As I and others have said, there are simply diminishing returns with putting higher resolutions on the same size displays. This is just pretty basic fact. PPI is what makes higher resolutions count and there's only so many pixels the human eye is able to perceive on any given display size.

HDR and related technologies are going to be key in improving viewing experiences in the years to come rather than 8K. Even when 8K does trickle down to consumer equipment, the focus in all the R&D and subsequent marketing will be improvements in HDR because that's what people will actually notice with their eyes. This can already be seen with how content providers are focusing more on HDR than resolution.
 

GrandCiel

macrumors regular
Oct 1, 2019
164
426
What is needed for direct 8K playback via a direct HDMI connection?

I haven’t ordered it yet but am due to upgrade my MacBook Pro 2017.

Let’s assume I buy a 16-inch MacBook Pro with M1 Max chip and at least 32GB of memory.

The specs I can find indicate it can support external 4K monitors but I find nothing on 8K.

It seems editing the video would not be a problem. Would I need an external playback device to load the video on for playback?



I have the new Nikon Z 9 mirrorless camera on the way that can record;

8K UHD 7,680×4,320 / 30p (progressive)

8K UHD 7,680×4,320 / 25p

8K UHD 7,680×4,320 / 24p

A future firmware update (in 2022), the 8K recording options will be extended, offering 12-bit RAW 8K/60p in-camera: N-RAW (Nikon’s original RAW video format), and ProRes RAW HQ (in case of RED Digital Cinema will allow it). As for the N-RAW, it will be licensed by a company called intoPIX. If so, this new RAW titled TICO-RAW promises to reduce the bitrate of RAW video by a factor of 10 without impairing the quality.

I have a JVC DLA-RS3100 front projector with a 125 inch 2.35:1 screen.

The JVC projector can support a high-resolution 8K signal input: 8K60p/4K120p. It doesn’t project a native 8K signal but does achieve a display resolution of 8192 x 4320 (with 8K/e-shiftX).

Thanks.
 
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JMacHack

Suspended
Mar 16, 2017
1,965
2,424
Bet:

AI upscaling will be used over native 8k.

Unless we get a massive upgrade in infrastructure, 8k streaming is unlikely. With current trends in gpus, upscaling seems to be the likeliest route.
 

satcomer

Suspended
Feb 19, 2008
9,115
1,977
The Finger Lakes Region
The Internet is NOT ready for that kind of bandwidth yet! you are dreaming to far into the future! The network is up those speeds! Beside your parent wouldn't want to buy a higher business line!
 

Hexley

Suspended
Jun 10, 2009
1,641
505
The Internet is NOT ready for that kind of bandwidth yet! you are dreaming to far into the future! The network is up those speeds! Beside your parent wouldn't want to buy a higher business line!
that will probably occur as early as 2030. By then you would be buying a new apple device that can actually handle 8k as the m1 would be more than 120 months from the release date.
 

hardwickj

macrumors 6502
Sep 5, 2009
273
487
You can't even run an 8K display from an M1 Max at this point in time (or for that matter, really macOS in general), so I'm not sure why it even matters.

Apple needs to sort out the sh*t show that is their display subsystem first. They brag about being able to edit multiple 8K streams on M1 Pro/Max, but you can't even watch one at its native resolution.
 

hardwickj

macrumors 6502
Sep 5, 2009
273
487
Bet:

AI upscaling will be used over native 8k.

Unless we get a massive upgrade in infrastructure, 8k streaming is unlikely. With current trends in gpus, upscaling seems to be the likeliest route.
The Internet is NOT ready for that kind of bandwidth yet! you are dreaming to far into the future! The network is up those speeds! Beside your parent wouldn't want to buy a higher business line!

I literally just streamed that, at 8k, stretched across 3x4k monitors without any problem. It increased my GPU workload from ~25% to ~45% on my M1 Max. No sweat.

Was I watching it at 8k? No, you'd need 4x4k monitors for that. But it still had to stream, decompress it and render it appropriately, and it did all that with only a marginal bump up in GPU. Plenty of room left in the tank to actually render it at 8k if there were an 8k display that could reasonably be hooked up to an Apple Silicon Mac.

Some of you all are making blanket assumptions which simply do not apply to more current hardware and internet connections.
 

JMacHack

Suspended
Mar 16, 2017
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I literally just streamed that, at 8k, stretched across 3x4k monitors without any problem. It increased my GPU workload from ~25% to ~45% on my M1 Max. No sweat.

Was I watching it at 8k? No, you'd need 4x4k monitors for that. But it still had to stream, decompress it and render it appropriately, and it did all that with only a marginal bump up in GPU. Plenty of room left in the tank to actually render it at 8k if there were an 8k display that could reasonably be hooked up to an Apple Silicon Mac.

Some of you all are making blanket assumptions which simply do not apply to more current hardware and internet connections.
Look man, I don’t know where you live, but I’m gonna assume it’s a fairly affluent area to be able to do that. I know I’d be buffering a long time and I assume there’s many places (in the U.S.) that are the same.

Moreover, if everyone around you were also streaming 8k footage, then it would be more difficult than you alone streaming 8k.

And lastly, my upscaling comment wasn’t about gpus not being able to handle 8k resolution, but more so about gpus gaining better upscaling to compensate for the streamed media not being 8k native.
 

russell_314

macrumors 604
Feb 10, 2019
6,664
10,263
USA
I’m just curious but does anyone in this thread have an 8K monitor or television? If so how much did it cost you? I don’t know anyone personally with such a device but it’s like all technology it comes out slowly
 

Hexley

Suspended
Jun 10, 2009
1,641
505
I’m just curious but does anyone in this thread have an 8K monitor or television? If so how much did it cost you? I don’t know anyone personally with such a device but it’s like all technology it comes out slowly
Only worth buying 2026-onwards
 

hardwickj

macrumors 6502
Sep 5, 2009
273
487
Look man, I don’t know where you live, but I’m gonna assume it’s a fairly affluent area to be able to do that. I know I’d be buffering a long time and I assume there’s many places (in the U.S.) that are the same.

Moreover, if everyone around you were also streaming 8k footage, then it would be more difficult than you alone streaming 8k.

And lastly, my upscaling comment wasn’t about gpus not being able to handle 8k resolution, but more so about gpus gaining better upscaling to compensate for the streamed media not being 8k native.
Anyone in a major city can get internet with sufficient speed to stream that. That may not cover the majority of the country, but it probably covers a majority of the population. My internet isn't anything special (100mb downstream at the best of times). All the major carriers offer much faster options than that in any large city. Here in Minneapolis, you can get 1Gbit full-duplex for $70/month in a very large portion of the city.
 
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mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,622
11,294
The Internet is NOT ready for that kind of bandwidth yet! you are dreaming to far into the future! The network is up those speeds! Beside your parent wouldn't want to buy a higher business line!

National average internet speed in 2021 is 99Mb while 8K YouTube streams only require 25Mb for SD and 36Mb for HD.

272 webm 7680x4320 60 │ 810.45MiB 25276k https │ vp9 25276k video only 4320p60, webm_dash

703 mp4 7680x4320 60 10 │ 1.14GiB 36281k https │ av01.0.17M.10 36281k video only 4320p60 HDR, mp4_dash
 

hardwickj

macrumors 6502
Sep 5, 2009
273
487
I’m just curious but does anyone in this thread have an 8K monitor or television? If so how much did it cost you? I don’t know anyone personally with such a device but it’s like all technology it comes out slowly
You probably won't find many here if only because you can't hook up an 8k60hz display to a macOS/tvOS based device without jumping over an excruciating amount of hurdles. Take a look at this thread to get an idea of the pain someone went through to get their Samsung QN900 working on a Mac Pro. The nearest solution for 8K on Apple Silicon is the UP3218K either running at 30hz or 60hz tiled/PBP (meaning it effectively appears as two screens to your computer), and I'm still waiting for confirmation that isn't broken on Apple Silicon.

Meanwhile, you've been able to run 8k60 on Windows going on 5 years now...
 
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hardwickj

macrumors 6502
Sep 5, 2009
273
487
Can you elaborate on this?
The UP3218K was first released in early 2017. When it first came out, you had to have a pretty decent graphics card to run it in Windows, but it was possible essentially from day one since Windows seems to do a much better job at supporting tiled displays. Meanwhile MacOS has a terrible track record with tiled displays that are not LG/Apple branded and to this day, still cannot run a now nearly 5 year old display.
 

GrandCiel

macrumors regular
Oct 1, 2019
164
426
You probably won't find many here if only because you can't hook up an 8k60hz display to a macOS/tvOS based device without jumping over an excruciating amount of hurdles. Take a look at this thread to get an idea of the pain someone went through to get their Samsung QN900 working on a Mac Pro. The nearest solution for 8K on Apple Silicon is the UP3218K either running at 30hz or 60hz tiled/PBP (meaning it effectively appears as two screens to your computer), and I'm still waiting for confirmation that isn't broken on Apple Silicon.

Meanwhile, you've been able to run 8k60 on Windows going on 5 years now...

Is the QN900 experience in this thread? It didn't come up in a search. I have a post up the page asking if there is a way to connect a MacBook Pro M1 Max and play 8K on a JVC DLA-RS3100. I'm assuming I need to build a windows PC with an expensive graphics card that are out of stock.
 

mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,622
11,294
I'm assuming I need to build a windows PC with an expensive graphics card that are out of stock.

Don't need expensive. An inexpensive laptop with mobile Nvidia 3060 can hardware decode 8K YouTube linked above at highest AV1 HDR bit rate with 2% CPU. MBA M1 can only software decode 8K VP9 SD smoothly with ~60% CPU utilization but not AV1. Wouldn't be surprised if 3050ti and 3050 also have same capability as 3060.

272 webm 7680x4320 60 │ 810.45MiB 25276k https │ vp9 25276k video only 4320p60, webm_dash

703 mp4 7680x4320 60 10 │ 1.14GiB 36281k https │ av01.0.17M.10 36281k video only 4320p60 HDR, mp4_dash

702 mp4 7680x4320 60 10 │ 1.75GiB 55768k https │ av01.0.17M.10 55768k video only 4320p60 HDR, mp4_dash
 

hardwickj

macrumors 6502
Sep 5, 2009
273
487
Is the QN900 experience in this thread? It didn't come up in a search. I have a post up the page asking if there is a way to connect a MacBook Pro M1 Max and play 8K on a JVC DLA-RS3100. I'm assuming I need to build a windows PC with an expensive graphics card that are out of stock.
Yea I forgot to link it. Edited so it has it now.
 
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GrandCiel

macrumors regular
Oct 1, 2019
164
426
Don't need expensive. An inexpensive laptop with mobile Nvidia 3060 can hardware decode 8K YouTube linked above at highest AV1 HDR bit rate with 2% CPU. MBA M1 can only software decode 8K VP9 SD smoothly with ~60% CPU utilization but not AV1. Wouldn't be surprised if 3050ti and 3050 also have same capability as 3060.

272 webm 7680x4320 60 │ 810.45MiB 25276k https │ vp9 25276k video only 4320p60, webm_dash

703 mp4 7680x4320 60 10 │ 1.14GiB 36281k https │ av01.0.17M.10 36281k video only 4320p60 HDR, mp4_dash

702 mp4 7680x4320 60 10 │ 1.75GiB 55768k https │ av01.0.17M.10 55768k video only 4320p60 HDR, mp4_dash
For the purpose of my questions, I am not asking about streaming YouTube or streaming anything. I plan on recording and editing my own video with a Nikon Z 9. This includes 8K. I also own a front projector that supports native 8K input.

I want to transfer the video from my camera to a PC or MacBook to edit and then play it back via an HDMI cable to the projector. Thanks.
 

MayaUser

macrumors 68040
Nov 22, 2021
3,177
7,196
teenagers needs a lot of 8k on youtube for those apple glasses/VR when they come out
So when the headsets come out , teenagers to have some content in 8k to see it
4k on a headset VR is the bare minimum
 
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