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ARM based MacBook Pro discussion [merged]
- Thread starter Omega Mac
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- arm intel macbook pro macos sierra
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I would think that some of the control that apple enjoys in iOS will make its way into OS X, regardless of a move to ARM. I do believe a shift to ARM would accelerate such control.
How about a Macbook DuoPro, comes with one Arm and one Intel. It's an idea. Could work if it was lower cost intel chip for compatibility with the latest A-Chip. They did it with GFX chips in the 15". The question is would it be justifiable (or feasible technically) for whatever benefit it might have?
Technically possible, but the result would be very complicated and hard to control efficiently. They're different architectures with different instruction sets.
Can't see the benefit in it, because it'd just add complexity (and cost) to the product - not what Apple is about.
Take a look at the OS for Synology or QNAP NAS products. They are essentially a cut down Linux. Some of the lower end variants use ARM CPUs, with more powerful variants resorting to Intel CPUs to decode/transcode h264 streams for Plex or similar products for media centre applications.
That's a ripe area for a variant of macOS that's written for ARM CPUs in a restricted range of products and therefore different enough for Apple to restrict apps to the App store only.
We could therefore have a Time Capsule Pro, which is an access point with up to 4 drive bays and a built in SSD for booting, using RAID for data integrity and capable of storing everything you need or driving your iTunes media setup. Control it remotely from an iOS app if you need to. Being Apple they could go for 2.5" drive bays all round only to reduce the bulk, noise and heat of any such device.
Or we have an AppleTV Pro which is flash only and doubles as a mini computer if you require (connect the USB-C port to a 4k Apple Cinema Display) or at a press of a button returns to the Home Cinema centre tvOS based device when connected to a TV.
Either way, the main OS it uses could be called appleOS - which is very similar to macOS but utilising ARM binaries and allowing apps only from the App store (nice little profit centre for Apple right there).
These are the sorts of products that could sit in the lower end Mac Mini space, what happens to the Mini then could be anyone's guess.
Very early rumours actually suggested PowerPC and ARM in the same machine, with the PPC being the "main" chip and switching over to ARM when appropriate.
With that said, I don't expect to see Intel and ARM in the same machine. Once you have an Intel chip in there, you're basically back to where we are now.
Couldn't hold in my laughter - even when sitting in the front row of an audit lecture.
ARM chips will not be used in a MacBook Pro, and IF they are used it won't be for quite some time. As someone who uses a MBP for heavy audio production and light video editing, there's no way (at least not right now) that an ARM chip would be able keep up with the i7's that are currently in MBP's.
The more I think about it, the more I do wonder if its in the cards. Whether we're talking about the rumored 2016 redesign or something a little ways down the road.
I stand by my opinion that ARM based Macs are not a good idea, but I can see all being seduced by the prospect of controlling their own destiny in terms of chip design and availability. Plus they can increase the control over how everything works/interacts even further (read locking macOS down further)
http://www.iclarified.com/57138/apple-adds-arm-support-to-macos-sierra-kernel
Will this show up in the new line of macs?
Will this show up in the new line of macs?
Replacement MacBook. Will be interesting to see if/where/when this one goes, along with the software strategy, i.e. if you can get third parties onboard building for ARM OS X, and if it will be a free option if you already own the x86 version.
A more interesting option, to me - iPad Pro running OSX.
A more interesting option, to me - iPad Pro running OSX.
Suddenly the Halloween theme makes perfect sense. Apple has created a true Horror: an Arm MBP with the butterfly keyboard.
Thats nothing new, they have done this for years.
http://opensource.apple.com//source/xnu/xnu-3789.1.32/osfmk/mach/machine.h
#define CPUFAMILY_ARM_9 0xe73283ae
#define CPUFAMILY_ARM_11 0x8ff620d8
#define CPUFAMILY_ARM_XSCALE 0x53b005f5
#define CPUFAMILY_ARM_12 0xbd1b0ae9
#define CPUFAMILY_ARM_13 0x0cc90e64
#define CPUFAMILY_ARM_14 0x96077ef1
#define CPUFAMILY_ARM_15 0xa8511bca
#define CPUFAMILY_ARM_SWIFT 0x1e2d6381
#define CPUFAMILY_ARM_CYCLONE 0x37a09642
#define CPUFAMILY_ARM_TYPHOON 0x2c91a47e
#define CPUFAMILY_ARM_TWISTER 0x92fb37c8
#define CPUFAMILY_ARM_HURRICANE 0x67ceee93
http://opensource.apple.com//source/xnu/xnu-3789.1.32/osfmk/mach/machine.h
#define CPUFAMILY_ARM_9 0xe73283ae
#define CPUFAMILY_ARM_11 0x8ff620d8
#define CPUFAMILY_ARM_XSCALE 0x53b005f5
#define CPUFAMILY_ARM_12 0xbd1b0ae9
#define CPUFAMILY_ARM_13 0x0cc90e64
#define CPUFAMILY_ARM_14 0x96077ef1
#define CPUFAMILY_ARM_15 0xa8511bca
#define CPUFAMILY_ARM_SWIFT 0x1e2d6381
#define CPUFAMILY_ARM_CYCLONE 0x37a09642
#define CPUFAMILY_ARM_TYPHOON 0x2c91a47e
#define CPUFAMILY_ARM_TWISTER 0x92fb37c8
#define CPUFAMILY_ARM_HURRICANE 0x67ceee93
A new MacBook (12”) type model with an enhanced A10 fusion would be most welcome given the fact the current A10 Fusion in an iPhone already, on average, exceed or perform as well as the CoreM processors therein. Win win and may allow Apple to cut the cost to place the model in the shoes of the rumoured to be discontinued 11” MacBook Air
For whom? Certainly not for the users that have to deal with literally thousands of incompatible non-MAS applications and would lose the option to use Bootcamp and VMs.
What we don't know, is how well the A10 scales, its ok with running 1 or 2 apps, but many of us are running several all at once. Heavily threaded apps, are also an unknown as well.
Then there's the issue of developers and consumers.
With the risk of repeating what was said said before, rolling out a platform that is incompatible from the old platform risks alienating the developers and consumers. Yes apple could all some level of emulation, but emulation of hardware is always slow then running something natively.
I used to use bootcamp etc... However, that isn't the case any more. The use case is less and less.
I'm not opposed to an architecture shift, if there is a meaningful, long-term reason to do so.
For a long time, it didn't look like Apple would ever leave PowerPC due to the software catalog and we see how that worked out, so I'm not betting the farm that Apple wouldn't leave Intel if they had good, long-term reasons to do so. They can make software porting tools and Swift can already run on both x86 and PPC -- so the groundwork is there.
We also had Windows on PowerPC via VirtualPC, so it's not impossible to still have access to Windows with enough dev time and resources (ie, an x86 emulator for ARM). Obviously performance would be declined in such emulation.
Short of that, you can spin up VMs on cloud services so effortlessly, it's possible to get a Windows environment accessible on anything. Maybe that's not for everyone, but it's certainly an option that exists and will become more accessible (and cheaper) with time.
For a long time, it didn't look like Apple would ever leave PowerPC due to the software catalog and we see how that worked out, so I'm not betting the farm that Apple wouldn't leave Intel if they had good, long-term reasons to do so. They can make software porting tools and Swift can already run on both x86 and PPC -- so the groundwork is there.
We also had Windows on PowerPC via VirtualPC, so it's not impossible to still have access to Windows with enough dev time and resources (ie, an x86 emulator for ARM). Obviously performance would be declined in such emulation.
Short of that, you can spin up VMs on cloud services so effortlessly, it's possible to get a Windows environment accessible on anything. Maybe that's not for everyone, but it's certainly an option that exists and will become more accessible (and cheaper) with time.
The thread I started on this topic evolved into a "would it happen?" To me it seems like Apple would want to go in that direction, in part to gain control and reduce cost, and in part because it is in their DNA to want to control the whole stack. But the original posting I made was really asking if there would be any benefit to us. I was curious if we could find any advantage to the user.
I don't think we really came up with a solid one. There would probably be some cost savings. Maybe there could be a performance boost relative to power and cost (debatable). But next to the emulation/compatibility issues, I'm not sure it would be worth it to the end-user.
At this point, I would say that there is no benefit, except making life potentially more complicated to a lot of people. It might be worth it if Apple at some point manages to score a significant efficiency advantage over Intel
don't think so. There might be a benefit if Apple's ARM CPUs at some point should significantly overtake Intel on efficiency, but it is unclear whether it will ever happen. It makes more sense to bet on AMD, if their new CPU is really as good as they promise. Then again, Apple is notorious for their risky leaps. And switching from x86 to ARM would be just that
Don't generalise what you're doing. There are more than enough people still using Bootcamp.
I don't think I should be forced to have garbage on my mac because other people want garbage on theirs. Additionally, ARM chips from Apple can run Windows and other crap OSes just fine. It doesn't make sense to me for Apple to solve software problems with unnecessary hardware.