Who is forcing you to run Bootcamp?
People run Windows for the software compatibility, which Windows RT (which is dead) doesn't have.
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ARM based MacBook Pro discussion [merged]
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Who is forcing you to run Bootcamp?
People run Windows for the software compatibility, which Windows RT (which is dead) doesn't have.
1) Apple has always been expensive. I remember buying a PowerBook G3 for $2500 and that wasn't even maxed out (The maxed out was tons more).
2) I like the idea of having a dedicated port USB-C to actually use what you find necessary. This allows for more customization in ways. Yes it's too early jump to all USB-C,but perhaps Apple is used to the complaining based on historical moves.
3) No this isn't the most recent CPU. Just like the Apple Watch 1, it's never smart to buy a generation 1 of a revamped platform. This is common knowledge for anyone who has ever been screwed over purchasing Gen 1. It has the same name as MacBook Pro, but it's Gen 1.
4) In 2017 32gb RAM versions and newer processor version will most likely ship. If you have a MacBook Pro right now, yes this is a very stupid purchase. However, for those who don't have a Pro, and are looking to get into that realm, this is a tempting purchase.
5) Like #4, stop complaining about the Lightning ports. Who will need full power of all four TB3 / USB-C ports? Some will, though wait if that's really your deal.
All in all, a nice device. However, if you have a 2012-2015 Macbook Pro, this is not the device for you what-so-ever. Apple probably realizes this, and it's good that they still support the "older" platforms.
This is all being typed on a customized 11-inch 2012 MacBook Air i7 with 8 gigs of RAM and am still happy with it. Everyone was expecting a MacBook Pro that would make anyone who purhased a laptop in the last 2-4 years freak out. That's not good business sense, and Apple is making a smart decision. I for one will go to MBPro, though not for the first generation. If I had a Mac laptop that was earlier than 2012, I'd give it a consideration. However, I'm definitely looking forward to updates to the Pro line next year +. Apple is good at creating a device that survives a lot longer than their PC counterparts, and that's a good thing.
2) I like the idea of having a dedicated port USB-C to actually use what you find necessary. This allows for more customization in ways. Yes it's too early jump to all USB-C,but perhaps Apple is used to the complaining based on historical moves.
3) No this isn't the most recent CPU. Just like the Apple Watch 1, it's never smart to buy a generation 1 of a revamped platform. This is common knowledge for anyone who has ever been screwed over purchasing Gen 1. It has the same name as MacBook Pro, but it's Gen 1.
4) In 2017 32gb RAM versions and newer processor version will most likely ship. If you have a MacBook Pro right now, yes this is a very stupid purchase. However, for those who don't have a Pro, and are looking to get into that realm, this is a tempting purchase.
5) Like #4, stop complaining about the Lightning ports. Who will need full power of all four TB3 / USB-C ports? Some will, though wait if that's really your deal.
All in all, a nice device. However, if you have a 2012-2015 Macbook Pro, this is not the device for you what-so-ever. Apple probably realizes this, and it's good that they still support the "older" platforms.
This is all being typed on a customized 11-inch 2012 MacBook Air i7 with 8 gigs of RAM and am still happy with it. Everyone was expecting a MacBook Pro that would make anyone who purhased a laptop in the last 2-4 years freak out. That's not good business sense, and Apple is making a smart decision. I for one will go to MBPro, though not for the first generation. If I had a Mac laptop that was earlier than 2012, I'd give it a consideration. However, I'm definitely looking forward to updates to the Pro line next year +. Apple is good at creating a device that survives a lot longer than their PC counterparts, and that's a good thing.
Finally someone who gets it!
I'm upgrading from a 2010 MBP to a new 13". To me its worth the upgrade to finally get a computer that has newer features that I have been missing.
I'm upgrading from a 2010 MBP to a new 13". To me its worth the upgrade to finally get a computer that has newer features that I have been missing.
Nice to have opposition to the argument. But I'd go even further:
- 3) isn't even a valid complaint to begin with since suitable Kaby Lake isn't shipping yet.
- People in general aren't getting screwed over by the lack of 32GB RAM, or by any notion of this being a first gen device - especially with the 13" it has the best chips Apple can put in it today, it isn't obviously crippled, and it has full MacBook pedigree.
- Lightning would be a stupid idea because it would be the only female Lightning connector in existence that can't be used for charging or data transfer which would confuse a lot of users.
- Thinner and lighter
- New industrial design
- Faster CPUs
- Faster graphics
- Faster storage
- Faster RAM
- Touch ID
- Touch Bar
- State-of-the-art I/O
- Space Grey
- Gorgeous DCI-P3 display
- 500 nit brightness (same as iPhone 7)
- Massively improved speakers
- Faster, more accurate keyboard
- Massive trackpad
- Can run two external 4K/5K displays
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Everyone is pissed because its not a pro model anymore. Its a glorified air. Great if you have cash to burn and don't care about performance or battery life, but those in the know are aware that there are many corners that have been cut with these new models. Its just not a great direction for a computer that gets used professionally.
And just to illustrate...
smaller battery
no pen support
no legacy USB
no HDMI
no SD reader
awful (IMO) shallow MacBook keyboard
no 32gb support
low end graphics (even the "top" r460 is pretty weak, Nvidia's offerings are far superior)
no magsafe
and its very expensive
So yes, for a air model this would be a compelling device. For a device that has been advertised about being about content creation and supporting professional workflow, it's just not there.
And just to illustrate...
smaller battery
no pen support
no legacy USB
no HDMI
no SD reader
awful (IMO) shallow MacBook keyboard
no 32gb support
low end graphics (even the "top" r460 is pretty weak, Nvidia's offerings are far superior)
no magsafe
and its very expensive
So yes, for a air model this would be a compelling device. For a device that has been advertised about being about content creation and supporting professional workflow, it's just not there.
I think people are upset at the value. Apple puts in a year old CPU, limits the ram and then over charges for it. Not to mention charging extra for the extension cord and port adapters you'll need to go with the USB C ports. When you can get a just as thin and small Windows notebook with more ram, the latest Kabylake processors and traditional ports plus new USB for half the cost you suddenly realize the folks in Cupertino are hosing us.
Actually, my biggest issue with the new computer is the exclusive use of the USB C port. Not that I don't like the new USB C and all, but I just can't imaging how inconvenient it would be for the next couple of year (at least) with the new Macbook Pro. I'm suppose to met with a colleague to talk to him about what to recommend for his kid who will be buying a new computer for college. I just can't imaging telling him to get the new Macbook Pro Retina with USB C, I wonder how much the kid will suffer going to college with it. As much as wireless is becoming a norm, sometime it's just easier to swap files via a USB stick/drive (or whatever the current accessories).
I think Apple should have at least kept one regular USB while we all transition to USB C...
I think Apple should have at least kept one regular USB while we all transition to USB C...
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You do realize this is comparing a product category Apple has been designing for 25 years, to a product category that it had never designed before, right?
The Kabylake processors in Windows notebook are not the same as the ones coming early 2017 for Mac Laptops.
Intel prioritized 4.5W Y-series and 15W U-series low powered chips. These chips are not for Macbook Pro.
There is currently no newer high powered chip around that can be put into these MacBooks.
its weird but i honestly think that if they kept 1 port everybody would still be screaming for 2
if you need a dual solution for the stick (https://www.amazon.de/SanDisk-Dual-USB-Laufwerk-Typ-C-USB-32GB/dp/B00V62XBY8)
i am already using the one in the link and its working great. simply 1 switch and you got what you need.
my personal hate is against the removal of the sd slot... i was using it for storage =/
This is essentially the same as people complaining that Apple didn't have ADB on the first iMac. Apple has always been the first to remove legacy ports (ADB, SCSI) and features (floppy, CD/DVD). It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
My perception of this model would be 100% different if they had released a companion display. Not at all interested in the clunky black plastic model they're pimping for LG. Why pay extra for Apple aesthetics when you're just going to stare at a PC display all day? Where does it end? Why not buy a non-Apple mouse and keyboard? Save them some R&D... A complete Apple solution would have made the whole thing worth it. I am still hopeful...
That might be a valid excuse for for the MacBook Pro 15-inch, but Kaby Lake for the MacBook Pro 13-inch is already available.
And before then, computer costs hundreds of thousands of dollars and filled entire rooms.
My point is that the prices of components have come down over time.
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That might be a valid excuse for for the MacBook Pro 15-inch, but Kaby Lake for the MacBook Pro 13-inch is already available.
Nothing you said addresses why people, especially professionals hate this device.
This device is basically prioritizing thinness over everything else. Professionals have many demands, of which thinness is only one. Apple crippled this device in functionality, connectivity, and even ignored the raw fundamentals (their sh*tty MB 12 keyboard is far inferior not only to their industry-leading MBPr 2015 keyboard, it is inferior to almost every other chicklet keyboard out there). They did it all in the name of thinness of which professionals would rate as probably 9th or 10th on their list of things they care about.
They should have called this the Apple Macbook Emoji Hipster Edition and left the MBP untouched and simply upgraded the internals. We could've had a notebook with 13-hour battery life, the best keyboard on laptops, excellent connectivity, and literally 3 current users of Macbook Pros would've given an actual sh*t that the laptop was not thinner.
Apple has completely lost its way.
Opinion from a professional developer - this is a great machine and I don't hate it.
Please take care not to project your own opinions onto all "people" because we all have different needs and expectations.
1) "Always?" What about last week when the MBP 13" was $1299. Oh wait, that model is still $1299, but instead you can buy the new body design with a slower processor and less ports for $200 more.
2) The ports on this new laptop are one of the best parts. Yes, it will be a slight annoyance for a short period, but anything that you use a USB
The CPU is just poor timing because they are off cycle with Intel. They should have done one more skylake spec bump earlier this year, and saved this new MBP till early next year.
My problem with this release is that apple is asking for $500 more, yet not justifying that price jump in any fashion. The RAM is limited to 16GB because of battery life...yet they chose to use cheaper old DDR3 memory when DDR4 would have had even less power draw (But lower margins!!). The camera is still 720P. The screen resolutions and sizes are the same. The display still has a bezel. The baseline 13" (With no touchbar) is essentially a macbook air with retina display (uses a 15w CPU), but it is $500 more than the last 13" air model.
I know that the rMBP when first released was a much higher price than $1299, but at that time a display panel of that resolution was actually expensive. The problem here is that there is nothing in this computer that comes close to an upgrade of that magnitude, yet it got a price increase as though it did.
1. Too expensive
2. No MagSafe
3. Has USB-C only (inconvenient now, but should be fine once it becomes more common)
4. The 15" has Intel HD Graphics 530 (a step back from the Iris Pro in the previous model).
While the last point is mitigated by the inclusion of an AMD dGPU, I fear sub-standard GUI animations while using the power-efficient iGPU.
They are my gripes with the new MacBook Pro, but everything else seems like a decent upgrade.
2. No MagSafe
3. Has USB-C only (inconvenient now, but should be fine once it becomes more common)
4. The 15" has Intel HD Graphics 530 (a step back from the Iris Pro in the previous model).
While the last point is mitigated by the inclusion of an AMD dGPU, I fear sub-standard GUI animations while using the power-efficient iGPU.
They are my gripes with the new MacBook Pro, but everything else seems like a decent upgrade.
Folks complaining about "last years processors" are missing two points.
1) Processors aren't iPhones, they aren't released like clockwork on some specific schedule. Kaby Lake isn't even out yet in this segment; and
2) they aren't actually any faster. A bit less efficient yes; which means a small bump in battery life. But I'm actually not so sure we'll even SEE a refresh next year; save for perhaps a quiet refresh where BTO models have 32GB available, and maybe Kaby Lake; but they won't see a significant performance increase.
32GB of RAM would be nice for editing tons of high res video and heavy VM usage; but most of us are actually more than fine with 16GB. I do happen to me in the camp of "You can never have too much RAM", but I doubt I'll be significantly hindered by 16GB.
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I doubt very much that there will be substandard GUI experiences with the integrated GPU. The HD 530 is a step behind yet; but it's no slouch. Integrated GPU's have REALLY evolved in recent years and they are pretty quick. If older Intel HD 3000/4000 machines are driving big, high resolution displays without any hindrances on GUI animations (as is the case with the one I own!), then the much MUCH faster HD 530 will have no issues there.
Points 1 and 2 are irrefutably valid. Point 3? Well, I would've liked USB A. But, as you say, in a short amount of time, we'll have moved on from USB A.
Actually, I kind of look to see Apple shipping future iPhones with USB-C cables and shipping USB-C power bricks.
1) Processors aren't iPhones, they aren't released like clockwork on some specific schedule. Kaby Lake isn't even out yet in this segment; and
2) they aren't actually any faster. A bit less efficient yes; which means a small bump in battery life. But I'm actually not so sure we'll even SEE a refresh next year; save for perhaps a quiet refresh where BTO models have 32GB available, and maybe Kaby Lake; but they won't see a significant performance increase.
32GB of RAM would be nice for editing tons of high res video and heavy VM usage; but most of us are actually more than fine with 16GB. I do happen to me in the camp of "You can never have too much RAM", but I doubt I'll be significantly hindered by 16GB.
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I doubt very much that there will be substandard GUI experiences with the integrated GPU. The HD 530 is a step behind yet; but it's no slouch. Integrated GPU's have REALLY evolved in recent years and they are pretty quick. If older Intel HD 3000/4000 machines are driving big, high resolution displays without any hindrances on GUI animations (as is the case with the one I own!), then the much MUCH faster HD 530 will have no issues there.
Points 1 and 2 are irrefutably valid. Point 3? Well, I would've liked USB A. But, as you say, in a short amount of time, we'll have moved on from USB A.
Actually, I kind of look to see Apple shipping future iPhones with USB-C cables and shipping USB-C power bricks.
Kaby Lake for the 13-inch MacBook Pro is already out if Apple choose to use it.
I thought this is the MacBook Pro, not the MacBook Air nor the MacBook.
It's still a portable, it's still a laptop. Very high end, resource intensive computer has always and will always be best served on a desktop. That isn't to say there isn't a market for powerful laptops.
Lastly, if you note the context from my post; I wasn't defending Apple's failure to include 32GB of RAM. Simply stating that it probably won't hinder me in my usage. Video editing and photo editing to the calibre I do are well within the capabilities of a machine with 16GB of RAM. I do so now with 16GB of RAM even with a VM running windows open at the same time.
As the other poster said; there is no Kaby Lake CPU with Iris graphics yet. They are slowly rolling it out and, nonetheless; it's not any faster. Again, it's not any faster. Kaby Lake is an efficiency improvement, not a performance improvement. I don't want to discount the importance of efficiency but the argument here (that's been going on since at least.. what... 1998? I think that's when I first heard people lamenting "Apple doesn't care about Pro customers; they released stupid candy colored mid-range machines instead of a new PowerMac! And each generation has brought it's complainers that some decision somewhere means Apple doesn't care about Pro Consumers.) is that it's about performance and "pro consumers". I won't argue that there are very comparable laptops at similar and cheaper prices and much more powerful laptops if you're willing to sacrifice some weight and thickness; and many (most?) pro consumers are. Again, not really jumping into the "does Apple care about pro's anymore", even if I'm weary of hearing it with every single announcement for years.
But the notion that there's some super fast new chip on a shelf and Apple has decided "nah, they don't need them, stick last years in there" is ill-informed. There's an announced, not yet shipped chip; that's identical in performance, and uses a bit less energy; which COULD help the machine eek a bit of battery life out; that Apple chose not to wait for. CPU release cycles are getting slower and slower. People have been lamenting Apple slowing down on the Mac release cycle but the fact is, components just haven't been releasing that fast either. Granted, the Mac Pro is WAY overdue. But a 24 month +/- release cycle in this climate seems reasonable; because even if one component here or there does get a refresh in a year; it isn't the huge performance increase year-over-year that we used to see. It's for that reason that I cringe a bit when people say "I'm waiting for 2017". Never say never (remember the iPad 3? Heck, they could announce new Macs next week for all I know). But the reality is, I don't really think it's even likely we'll see another MBP refresh until 2018; at least not a significant one. Maybe a quiet refresh next year making 32GB available and perhaps with the Kaby Lake chips giving us a bit more battery life; but it's not likely that if there is a refresh next year; that next years MBP's will actually be any faster.
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Another release to wait for.
"Apple Inc. is planning to use its own chips in Mac computers beginning as early as 2020, replacing processors from Intel Corp., according to people familiar with the plans.
The initiative, code named Kalamata, is still in the early developmental stages, but comes as part of a larger strategy to make all of Apple’s devices -- including Macs, iPhones, and iPads -- work more similarly and seamlessly together, said the people, who asked not to be identified discussing private information. The project, which executives have approved, will likely result in a multi-step transition."
"Apple Inc. is planning to use its own chips in Mac computers beginning as early as 2020, replacing processors from Intel Corp., according to people familiar with the plans.
The initiative, code named Kalamata, is still in the early developmental stages, but comes as part of a larger strategy to make all of Apple’s devices -- including Macs, iPhones, and iPads -- work more similarly and seamlessly together, said the people, who asked not to be identified discussing private information. The project, which executives have approved, will likely result in a multi-step transition."
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I think this should become a sticky thread - like the "new Mac mini is almost coming" epic thread in the Mac mini forums.
