Ask me anything: I switched from Mac to Linux because of Apple's surveillance

[scvrx]

It will cost a lot more if you reinvest in hardware and software it replace it, and what is the best way to achieve that and looking generally at internet privacy is it really worth the hassle??

Two things.

General knowledge about the future that is pushed onto users with the idea of "subscription is more affordable" than "ownership". Which is true in the short-term for people that don't care about their data ownership.

But this philosophy is backed up by biggest corporations in the world and richest people, who know that upcoming automatisation will create a lot of unemployment and political unrest (check Covid 19: The great reset). It is obvious that if some of the richest (under 1 percent) want to protect the status quo, they have to recondition the public over the idea of material success and ownership - You will have nothing and you will be happy. They use what they have. And they have biggest tech monopolies in human history in their pockets, so why not everything becomes services based, people are stupid and don't care about privacy.


In the past the idea of owning an electronic device was equal ownership of hardware and software. With the cloud and SAAS based software is clear that you rent something and ownership is not yours.

But Apple tries to normalize publicly the idea that you pay a ton of money and rent 90% of UX from them, they have successfully created an environment of trust over "promise" by using the talent of people like me who design and create useful stuff for the end user and exploiting cheap labor from China.


The question of more expensive. Let me see how much money Apple is losing from me this year.

I have relatively small company. 24 high quality engineers, 3 designers and me. All of us wanted the new M stuff which puts a price at 3k per user - Apple lost 84000 USD from this slot. Add upgrades for new iPhones and you will get the picture.


As people who create software we know what is going on. And we are awaken to take all technically adequate measures to counter the effect of Apple and friends.

By moving my company to Arch/Manjaro Linux, I will get at least half a year before upgrading. And my employees will get the best available hardware, and real control over the computers.

Mind you, I don't understand how any professional with contracts, will trust macOS active scanning functions. We are under heavy NDA and privacy related contracts and the idea of someone snooping around is non acceptable.

 

[MisterSavage]

One of the reasons I liked switching to a Mac from a Windows PC is that I could use the Linux commands I was used to on the command line. If you ever switch back to Mac the knowledge you're gaining in Linux land will still apply many times.

 

[nickdalzell1]

It didn't cost me much at all. I have had the S20 FE since May, but the rest I dug out of a closet. Mainly the laptop. I just popped a USB of a Linux distro and rebooted so here I am. I don't use the 'cloud' or any of that stuff so it has zero affect on me. Music is on the device, so are my photos, just as they were on the Mac--mere copies of what's on my NAS.

 

[MrTSolar]

I had already invested the money in the hardware, so it could be re-sold to others in need of newer hardware (stops a few sales of new hardware). I sunk probably $700 into my desktop to get it up and running, but dropping Apple subscriptions will eventually pay for that. Other than that, there might be expense for a different phone, but that’s still pending.

I have enough storage floating around, I don’t need to rent storage any longer.

 

[jntdroid]

It didn't cost me much at all. I have had the S20 FE since May, but the rest I dug out of a closet. Mainly the laptop. I just popped a USB of a Linux distro and rebooted so here I am. I don't use the 'cloud' or any of that stuff so it has zero affect on me. Music is on the device, so are my photos, just as they were on the Mac--mere copies of what's on my NAS.

How did you de-google the S20? Was it literally just disabling / blocking network access to the Google apps? Including Play Store, Play Services, etc?

 

[I7guy]

[...]

I have relatively small company. 24 high quality engineers, 3 designers and me. All of us wanted the new M stuff which puts a price at 3k per user - Apple lost 84000 USD from this slot. Add upgrades for new iPhones and you will get the picture.
[...]

FWIW - churn is inevitable. United Airlines recently announced the distribution of ipad pros to all of their pilots. Things balance out. Everybody has to do what they have to do.

 

[nickdalzell1]

How did you de-google the S20? Was it literally just disabling / blocking network access to the Google apps? Including Play Store, Play Services, etc?

Pretty much. NetGuard No-root Firewall, a third party app, can selectively kill both mobile data and wifi access to specific system services and apps. That way I can keep the Play Services APIs intact so my apps that would otherwise depend on it to run won't break, but they can't phone home to Google anymore.

The rest have been either disabled or replaced with a combo of backed up Android 2.3 apps or AOSP alternatives. Maps for example replaced with OpenStreetMaps.

Play Store I've always disabled from day one, never used it since I was far more fond of Android Market. I've opened it a few times, and it's always rearranging things. It does too many things in the background (so I've disabled the download manager so background stuff can't use it but I can still download files from web browsers and such) and I've always relied on either sideloading APKs or alternative app stores such as Aptoide or F-Droid.

I've been so fond of the Android 2.3 UI and the wild wild west days of Android that I tend to keep that UI going as long as possible. The neat part is unlike some other modern phones, the S20 FE's AMOLED can make 'fake bezels' to allow older apps to look correct, while phones like my G7 Power tried to blow it up to native resolution and it looks blurry.

Now, if things get worse, and because I'm currently having issues with Verizon, I might go so far as to wake up my old Samsung Flight II (2009) slider with an AT&T SIM from Straight Talk and see how that works out. I haven't used data much this last few months. I've basically just texted, played music and took notes. Probably would be more private with that old J2ME device. If not could just pop the SIM back into the FE since it's unlocked.

 

[MrTSolar]

Thoughts on Telegram vs Signal? My understanding is Telegram is closed source, Signal is open source.

Signal seems to be widely accepted, but honesty never researched it. I joined Telegram via referral from someone I know, and just really like it so decided to standardize on it. It can get messages and files sent over connections too weak for anything to work (iMessage craps out on 1x, but Telegram continues to work). Plus, it has tons of options for 1-1 chat, group chat, and public channels. It’s a mix of messaging and social media that runs on anything. Regular 1-1 chat syncs across all devices, or you can use E2EE private chat (doesn’t sync to other devices).

For security, they have servers scattered all over the globe, so serving subpoenas is a challenge (use private chat and that threat is null).

 

[Lee_Bo]

How do I know, which Linux version is the best? The version I tried back then (I think it was Suse Linux) sucked and I don't have time nor do I want to try 1000s of different Linux distributions. So which one is/are best?

This is my go-to site if I’m looking for something different:

DistroWatch.com: Put the fun back into computing. Use Linux, BSD.

News and feature lists of Linux and BSD distributions.

distrowatch.com

IMHO, Linux Mint is one of the easiest Linux OS versions around. I always have at least one machine running it’s stable and works great.

 

[nickdalzell1]

My favorite distro was VectorLinux 6. That was the only distro in the modern time that defaulted to terminal login, and I used it the longest. I kept it going as long as I could before even the browser couldn't pull much up. I still can't find that old Dell D610 that ran it; probably lost when I moved in 2016. Nothing modern has come close to fully replacing it, though. There were later variants of Vector but they had gone the same way as Ubuntu in being kinda dumbed down and idiot proofed. I had all sorts of stuff going on that from Super Nintendo emulation to DOS to VMs running Packard Bell Navigator. On the CLI side I had Mutt for email, and at one point had a rather convincing emulation of IRIX and the console from Jurassic Park, including the 'permission denied' three times followed by Nedry GIF 'ah ah ah! you didn't say the magic word!'

Also had turned on insults, quite fun times.

 

[sracer]

For those who are not familiar with Linux but want to try some distros out, here are my recommendations for where to start:

For people comfortable with Mac OS: Elementary OS
For those comfortable with Chrome OS: Peppermint OS
For those comfortable with Windows XP/7: Linux Mint
For those comfortable with Windows 10: Zorin

...these are just starting points. There are some great distros out there and it might take some experimentation, but there are plenty of quality Youtubers out there who kick the tires on distros so you can get a glimpse before going through the effort to install it.

I know that Pop!_OS gets a lot of praise and attention, but when I first tried it I found it to be sufficiently different from the mainstream Linux distros that if someone were to first learn Pop!_OS and then move on to a different distro then they might be a bit confused. (I admit that I experimented with it when it first came out so things might've changed since then)

 

[Droobiemus]

Thinking of doing this soon.

I don't use anything Apple specific in my workflows, so I've been able to find alternatives. The only thing I haven't seen is a Plex Media Player for Pop OS/Linux, but I suppose I could use Plex Web.

A 17" laptop is sounding very appealing.

And for gaming, I will probably get an Alienware desktop a few years from now. I do have a SteamDeck on pre-order, so I plan on using that till I "need" a desktop.

 

[Droobiemus]

What are you doing for watch and mobile?

Not the person you asked, but we switched to the new Garmin Forerunner LTE. Just as good as Apple Watch for activity tracking. It took a bit to change our thinking from "closing our rings" and "getting our calorie goals" vs just exercising and sticking to our daily exercise routines.

Notifications work, but you can't respond to messages as they come in. It's been nice being slightly more disconnected, to be honest.

 

[nickdalzell1]

For those who are not familiar with Linux but want to try some distros out, here are my recommendations for where to state:

For people comfortable with Mac OS: Elementary OS
For those comfortable with Chrome OS: Peppermint OS
For those comfortable with Windows XP/7: Linux Mint
For those comfortable with Windows 10: Zorin

...these are just starting points. There are some great distros out there and it might take some experimentation, but there are plenty of quality Youtubers out there who kick the tires on distros so you can get a glimpse before going through the effort to install it.

I know that Pop!_OS gets a lot of praise and attention, but when I first tried it I found it to be sufficiently different from the mainstream Linux distros that if someone were to first learn Pop!_OS and then move on to a different distro then they might be a bit confused. (I admit that I experimented with it when it first came out so things might've changed since then)

Does Linux Mint at least look like XP/7? I'm having trouble finding that skeuomorphic distro I'm looking for. I am currently running Deepin, which looks like an amalgamation of Windows 11 and Big Sur, but it's overall a flat UI (but it at least has a skeuo icon pack for what it's worth!). It isn't hard to switch distros, since not much goes on on my laptop except seeing YouTube and this site.

AS for Garmin, I'm using a Venu Sq that works better for certain things that aren't 100% on the Watch 3 (for one thing, sleep tracking is rather broken on the Galaxy Watch since it always assumes I get only 30 minutes or less deep sleep, while the Garmin correctly sees 2.5 hours overall) but you can reply to texts on it, but you're limited to the canned responses (which can be customized pretty well in the Garmin Connect app)

 

[crymimefireworks]

Since all my data has been backed up on a Linux server acting as an NAS for years, switching back to Android (Samsung Galaxy S20 FE, freshly de-Googled as of last week, most apps disabled or blocked via NetGuard app) was easy. Linux I've been familar with since 2001. I'm using Deepin (MacOS like, based on Debian) as a Linux on a HP laptop. Couldn't get Linux working properly on my T2 MBP (Keyboard, sound, wifi, etc no worky) so I gave up on the Mac.

Apple TV replaced with Fire TV sticks, don't need an Amazon account to use Netflix, or sideload APKs like the Apple TV app or various others, since it runs an AOSP fork so you don't have to tie with Amazon. I recommend a Wifi extender since my Fire Sticks (from 2016) don't like being more than five feet from a router at all.

Watch is a Galaxy Watch 3, the last Tizen-based model, as I'm not interested in reliving the WearOS nightmare. Severely gimped is a more proper name for the Google Assistant in that, among being reliant on Google and their own issues. Bixby is no worse than Siri on an Apple watch, and can do a few things better (such as turn on/off water lock mode, show notifications, go back to home screen, even do things like clear recent apps).

On the phone I use Bixby, and Robin as an open-source alternative to Google Assistant. I have pretty much most apps blocked from even accessing the internet, using a slew of my favorite Android 2.3 apps from the server. My server has been my alternative to Play Store for years. The only apps I am allowing internet and data access to are Garmin Connect, Bixby Voice, any web browser, Spotify, Samsung Health, and MMS messaging. That's pretty much it. Everything else, from ebooks, to music, photos, my contacts, are stored on device.

Wow fascinating.

1. From your description, it sounds like you were using an iPhone before switching. Does that mean you had all your iPhone's content backing up to your NAS? How, which apps?
2. Open source voice assistant - super curious to hear about this. How does it compare to Siri, other alternatives, thoughts, anything.

 

[crymimefireworks]

By moving my company to Arch/Manjaro Linux, I will get at least half a year before upgrading. And my employees will get the best available hardware, and real control over the computers.

Wow what kind of hardware are you considering for Linux? How do you think about System76?

 

[crymimefireworks]

For those who are not familiar with Linux but want to try some distros out, here are my recommendations for where to state:

For people comfortable with Mac OS: Elementary OS
For those comfortable with Chrome OS: Peppermint OS
For those comfortable with Windows XP/7: Linux Mint
For those comfortable with Windows 10: Zorin

...these are just starting points. There are some great distros out there and it might take some experimentation, but there are plenty of quality Youtubers out there who kick the tires on distros so you can get a glimpse before going through the effort to install it.

I know that Pop!_OS gets a lot of praise and attention, but when I first tried it I found it to be sufficiently different from the mainstream Linux distros that if someone were to first learn Pop!_OS and then move on to a different distro then they might be a bit confused. (I admit that I experimented with it when it first came out so things might've changed since then)

The whole "pick a different distro" to me is confusung. Is there an equivalent for Mac users? Maybe because I'm mixing "OS" with "distro".

It just sounds to me like "Pick a Mac if you're a beginner, Windows if you want more programs, and Linux if you like to tinker". These are big decisions we're talking about in that case!! Maybe "distro" isn't as big a deal but seems like it.

 

[nickdalzell1]

Wow fascinating.

1. From your description, it sounds like you were using an iPhone before switching. Does that mean you had all your iPhone's content backing up to your NAS? How, which apps?
2. Open source voice assistant - super curious to hear about this. How does it compare to Siri, other alternatives, thoughts, anything.

Robin is a free open source (as far as I am aware) alternative to Siri, or the Google Assistant. It dates back to Android 2.3 in its oldest version (no longer working) when Android had no such feature. Robin is pretty basic, but it can open apps, control wifi or bluetooth, and tell jokes. It's about as on par with Siri on the old 4S. But Bixby is more capable today so I often use that. So far the only use of Robin is as a backup if Bixby is not working, or to use the floating button it has to cover up the little 'n' badges in apps that have new updates available so it doesn't bug me.

As for my NAS, I built it back in 2013. I had my first iPhone (3GS and a 4 later on) before it was neccessary. I did toy with Android, from 2.1 onwards, but was quite fond of 2.3, even if the hardware of the time was super-lacking (256MB RAM, anyone?) The Custom ROM scene was more fun too at that time. Far more could be messed with when Xposed existed. But I didn't fully commit to Android until iOS 7 made the iPhone and my iPad look like crap (I hate flat design! I was there in the 80s! Besides, the UI of the 3GS amazed me). If I had kept the 3GS I'd have probably been better off.

But in 2013 I got a Galaxy SIII, only one year old at that time, and it had decent hardware compared to those Gingerbread counterparts. 2GB RAM, a quad core CPU, and more internal storage. It also had a rather nature-inspired skeuomorphic UI, and its own voice assistant (S-Voice) far more capable than Google Now which at that time couldn't even control wifi or volume. Got about as much hate as Bixby though.

So when I built the NAS shortly after, I backed up all the APKs from my rooted LG Optimus V (running Android 2.3) and my tablet (Coby Kyros MID7015, running Android 2.1) and sideloaded them to the SIII, but tended to at least then use the Samsung apps in place of Google as they did far more and looked better to me.

I then upgraded to the S4, which had a full-HD screen, IR blaster, and 32GB storage, and it had a similar UI and felt like a proper upgrade. Then to a Note 3 and Galaxy Gear, then Gear 2, then Gear S2, S3 Classic, and Gear S (and a Samsung Galaxy S5).

I was quite fond of Samsung until they too, caved to flat design starting in Android 5, and glass sandwiches such as the S6. I went back to Apple more recently with a 6S, and my old apps were still available from the Purchased list on the App store so not much flat UI there, but I quickly filled it up storage wise and then went back to an HTC Thunderbolt, then LG Stylo 5, then my current S20 FE.

The only things I could get from my NAS to my iPhones then were music and photos, since I'd just fire up iTunes on a Windows PC, connect to the Samba share on my NAS, and transfer files that way, then sync with iTunes. So the music on my iPhone as well as my later and current phones has only changed with any new purchases from Amazon (in MP3, DRM-free format). That way I can use whatever brand or version of music app I want. Not tied to any subscriptions.

 

[crymimefireworks]

I went back to Apple more recently with a 6S, and my old apps were still available from the Purchased list on the App store so not much flat UI there, but I quickly filled it up storage wise and then went back to an HTC Thunderbolt, then LG Stylo 5, then my current S20 FE.

Wow! Is the idea you take a photo in iOS and it immediately backs up to your NAS/cloud? That's what I want for my future Linux phone.

 

[keeper]

Wow fascinating.

1. From your description, it sounds like you were using an iPhone before switching. Does that mean you had all your iPhone's content backing up to your NAS? How, which apps?
2. Open source voice assistant - super curious to hear about this. How does it compare to Siri, other alternatives, thoughts, anything.

Maybe you should start by having a look at the functions provide by a standard NAS, i.e Synology.
My IOS and Mac only backup applications data.
Photos are transferred to the NAS by Synology photos app automatically.
Even with IOS or Mac you can configure it very easily to use Synology Calendar and Contacts.
Synology has a basic Office Suite , Documents are available across all my platforms using Synology Drive.

The only downside I found was using contacts did not display the persons name in iMessage so I let Apple handle that.
Lots you can take ownership of with todays modern NAS drives, just make sure you also implement a good backup strategy. It’s quite good fun learning a new approach…

 

[katbel]

…If you're considering switching -- Ask me anything!

Precious thread you started: I’ve always been fascinated by Linux
and from you and others answers I can get some infos to go ahead myself but..
What are the threats to someone using it? Hacking, viruses?
I found this page explaining some of it. Do you think is valid or exaggerated? How do you protect yourself?

 

[nickdalzell1]

Linux you pretty much never want to run as root. the permissions of a standard user should be far more secure than UAC or elevated permissions on a Mac. I know of no viruses on Linux, but I haven't used virus protection for years on any system since I'm not likely to have interest in porn, pirated software where most malware lives. The last bit of malware I became familar with was BonziBuddy.

I always say protect yourself by being smart, having common sense. I feel if someone has issues with malware, they should take responsibility for their actions if they decided to visit a sketchy site. I am just sick of everything being idiot proofed.

 

[scvrx]

Wow what kind of hardware are you considering for Linux? How do you think about System76?

I like System76 approach. A lot. The idea of optimization and working Linux Desktop is beautiful. Pop_OS is very good.
But Manjaro and Arch are more suitable for our workflow.
For the office I will build custom Desktop PCs with most expensive parts available on the market. Water-cooled and may be with this aluminum case: https://www.raijintek.com/en/products_detail.php?ProductID=49 .
Laptops will be Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon with proven Linux support.

Designers are working mainly in Figma, which is browser based software and for other use cases will use Affinity Designer under Windows 10 VM's.
My goal is not to limit the previously Apple related budget. I want the best for my engineers.

 

[rme]

Wow what kind of hardware are you considering for Linux? How do you think about System76?

You might like this : https://frame.work

 

[nickdalzell1]

Wow! Is the idea you take a photo in iOS and it immediately backs up to your NAS/cloud? That's what I want for my future Linux phone.

No. You have to do it manually. Back then that meant plugging in that 30-pin (or lightning) cable into your Windows PC and firing up iTunes to move files back/forth. My NAS doesn't even connect to the internet. It's on its own intranet which I just use the wifi to connect to it specifically.

Today, that's much less of a hassle. If I want to back up a new music purchase from Amazon Music, I fire up and old version of ES File Explorer, connect to the NAS via IP address, and copy the folder from /sdcard/music to /mnt/media/music and that's it. It does everything wirelessly. Not automatic. I don't need the automatic thing. My apps hardly ever change and I haven't bought much new music lately. Once everything's the way I like I leave it be.

I do have a WD Mycloud but it requires internet access so it's not exactly any more private than a standard cloud such as OneDrive, only the hardware is in your home. It requires its own app too, which almost always insists on being updated. I don't believe in updates.