I agree it's important for people to be able to do build their own PCs. However, this is not what I want for myself, I want a computer that just works.
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Ask me anything: I switched from Mac to Linux because of Apple's surveillance
- Thread starter crymimefireworks
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Yeah. A lot if not all of these so called organizations that promise security are setup by corps to honeytrap you.
Just 2 and 3 are hard to come by outside of Apple, and even then, a lot of Apple support doesn't come from the company (oh, the number of times I've been told by a Genius to "just restore it" to have it NOT solve the problem). Companies like Dell or HP try their best to support Windows, but their main concern is the hardware.
Outside of System76 or Purism, maybe the Framework laptop for open hardware. You'll have to install Linux yourself, though.
System76 is the best for me. Hope to see them grow and other options start up as well. Framework and Purism seem good too, tho a bit more complex. I want to support them too.
One could argue that this is the wrong question. It will invoke people to respond what’s best for them, not necessarily what’s best for you.
Whether it’s an OS, an application etc; the best is what comes closest to meeting your requirements. Those often change so what’s best today won’t necessarily be the best tomorrow.
Often the reason people like Linux is because it’s open source and extremely configurable. The further you deviate from stock standard though the more trouble you’re likely to encounter with less and less that “just works”.
The closer you stay to stock standard the less choice and flexibility you’re likely to have.
These days I’d argue that it’s not just about the hardware and software in the box. It’s also how nicely that plays with other services.
Some examples are video conferencing platforms, Cloud based storage and collaboration services.
If you’re using a machine for business, like it or not you might need to use Google drive, Microsoft Teams or GoTo Webinar. These can all be problematic and less than ideal on Linux.
So someone might respond with “SuperDistro”. If you use the services I just mentioned as great as “SuperDistro” might be, you discover Roblox Studio doesn’t support Linux period.
When all said and done Apple are probably one of the few companies that completely control the hardware and software. 99% of the time other services are supported.
The cost is strict compliance to stock standard. The benefit is a system that “just works”.
Ubuntu was the best distro for me because it’s fairly polished and well maintained. There’s a ton of community support for it. It mostly “just works”. 80% out of the box, another 10% by installing and configuring the right stuff.
It does about 90% of what I want about 75% of the way I’d prefer to do things.
The right spec Mac does about 99% of the stuff I need about 95% of the way I prefer to do things.
None of the individual Macs I own right now meet all my needs so Ubuntu is kind of a stop gap till Apple bring out a Mac that meets about 99% of my needs again.
No.. not a communications issue.. but to be honest, it may just simply be an expectations issue.
For example, with both #1 and #2 above, when you also say:
You are assuming that Linux has the support for that mouse that "just works". If the specs for that hardware haven't been published for a driver to be coded to support that mouse, then Linux will not have support for that mouse, no matter what hardware a vendor throws at Linux. That is the fault of the hardware developer and software developer for that hardware, not Linux. You just can't simply throw hardware at an OS and expect an OS to support it.
I mean, you couldn't throw a Bluetooth mouse at Windows 95 and expect Windows 95 to support it. You'd have to have the developers for that company that created that mouse to code software for the device to be supported. If you don't have that, it won't work. The same applies for Linux.
Without that, you couldn't have #3.
BL.
Good points. I agree.
One thing that drives me crazy about the computer world in general is how some solutions get pushed as universal fit all (but really fit no one perfectly). Windows and Office come to mind as good examples.
I think Ubuntu (and the various sibling distros and derivatives) has a lot going for it. It has large installed user base, which includes a lot of "normal people." So there is a ton of support--everything from books to forums--and good application availability.
There is never been more easier way to run Linux. I experimented in recent weekends with different distributions for old MacBook Air 6.1 to see what will happen. So everything worked, sometimes out of the box, sometimes broadcom wifi driver had no adequate solution, but in general even Devuan (which is distro without systemd ) worked fine. In the end I stopped at Pure OS (added nonfree wifi driver) and Tlp for the battery and installed OpenSnitch.
For minimal effort when installing on mac hardware (without T chip) I recommend Pop_OS. You have to provide network connection with a cable to update and restart. For removing the minimal telemetry inherited from Ubuntu check my previous posts.
The dream combo for Linux laptop for me will be Carbon X with high quality display and Gentoo. I have ordered some for the office.
In summary, Linux is here and I am deeply thankful for this.... imagine the world without FOSS. What a nightmare.
For minimal effort when installing on mac hardware (without T chip) I recommend Pop_OS. You have to provide network connection with a cable to update and restart. For removing the minimal telemetry inherited from Ubuntu check my previous posts.
The dream combo for Linux laptop for me will be Carbon X with high quality display and Gentoo. I have ordered some for the office.
In summary, Linux is here and I am deeply thankful for this.... imagine the world without FOSS. What a nightmare.
How do you handle the sheer number of variables with Linux? I'm currently a (frustrated) Linux user of the past two years, still lost on a lot of stuff, feel like I'm missing out on things and other stuff needs hoops to jump through and lots of googleing. I've been trying to get by because of the major intrusiveness from windows that in some aspects IMHO borderlines on malware (I mean reinstalls stuff after you remove it etc), basically locks your drive (probably because it's more in hibernation mode then off) and just other cringe stuff (forced updates).
Anyway recently got a new laptop, idea was to put new drive in and install Linux. Well the vendor put in an unsupported wifi adapter in it. So bought another one, I'm finally to the point of installing the OS but now it's indecision. This is the variables I inquired about. There are so many things to consider. Ubuntu? Snap store. Well, it's a popular distro but will the packages I need be there? Well maybe. An arch distro? Different package manager same thing. Okay well, one package is actually there, it gets installed, no onto another I need to complete my needed workstation. Oops, not there should have went to distro 3 whichever that may be.
So, thats my question to you, how did you overcome the number of variables because right now for me, it's been a lot of work arounds and even just not using some stuff.
I'm still looking at a new distro for the new laptop. But I've also thought about burning a windows 10 iso from Microsoft to the USB thumb drive and just installing that and air gap the thing which seems difficult if I need drivers.
I'm actually probably a bit more comfortable in Linux now just as long as I don't need to look under it's good and things just work.
Anyway recently got a new laptop, idea was to put new drive in and install Linux. Well the vendor put in an unsupported wifi adapter in it. So bought another one, I'm finally to the point of installing the OS but now it's indecision. This is the variables I inquired about. There are so many things to consider. Ubuntu? Snap store. Well, it's a popular distro but will the packages I need be there? Well maybe. An arch distro? Different package manager same thing. Okay well, one package is actually there, it gets installed, no onto another I need to complete my needed workstation. Oops, not there should have went to distro 3 whichever that may be.
So, thats my question to you, how did you overcome the number of variables because right now for me, it's been a lot of work arounds and even just not using some stuff.
I'm still looking at a new distro for the new laptop. But I've also thought about burning a windows 10 iso from Microsoft to the USB thumb drive and just installing that and air gap the thing which seems difficult if I need drivers.
I'm actually probably a bit more comfortable in Linux now just as long as I don't need to look under it's good and things just work.
Oh I think I get this now, thanks for explaining.
Yes, my mental model for Linux has changed a lot in a few weeks. And you're right, my expectations needed to change about that mouse. The fact that my mouse didn't work was the manufacturer's fault, not Linux's fault. I didn't get that when I first started. Now I will work hard to make sure hardware vendors know that they need to support Linux for me to be a customer. My new mouse still didn't work completely out of the box, I should let the manufacturer know.
Not yet on the mouse. Let's see if the mouse is supported. What's the vendor, and model of mouse? I ask, because I'm actually compiling the latest kernel so I can see if the mouse is supported. If it is, then what can happen is that those in charge of the distribution you use can simply compile the kernel to have support for your mouse, then off you go.
BL.
First mouse was a Magic Mouse (using the multitouch at all required installing fixes from Github, and even then was still skittery, not smooth enough for me). Supposedly there's fixes in the works for the next Ubuntu/Pop OS release. But it's a mouse, I don't have time for this. Apple makes a mouse that's hard to get working with Linux, goodbye Apple.
Replacement mouse is Logitech MX 3 Master. It connected okay out of the box, apparently it's unusual to have issues so my experience was a little bit of an outlier. Logitech doesn't have a native app for Linux support, so that's a mark against them. Does anyone know if Logitech publishes specs in a way that makes it easy for Linux developers to connect? Open to other vendors that better support Linux.
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Okay.. just had a look at the latest kernel source. I see the source code for the driver there, and this is in kernel 5.14.4, which was just released today. I haven't gone back to see when the code first made it to the kernel, but I do know that the latest kernel supports it. From what you're saying with it connecting right out the box, that means that the source for it was in the kernel that your distro uses. Along with that, I don't know when any updates were made to it. But I definitely see it there.
Logitech has been really good with supplying the specs for their hardware, going all the way back to the bus, serial, and PS/2 mouse, so they are generally good to have it there. At this point, I'd say to get hold of the vendor for the distro you're using and see if anyone else has had any problems with it.
BL.
Agreed, and the latter is far more important to me than manufacturer support. Ubuntu-based distros are so widespread that pretty much any problem has been discussed thoroughly, and a solution or workaround is just seconds away in any search engine.
I hear you. I value both. Manufacturer support means worst case a Linux geek searches through forums and figure out what I need on my behalf. I'm not looking to be a Linux mechanic. I want it to "just work". I've tried reading forums for solutions and pasting in what I find....it results in me needing to reinstall the OS
This statement reminds me of the very first Linux I ever installed in 1993 using a 1.44” floppy.
When the terminal prompt appeared I remember thinking “is that it?”
Eventually I figured out Usenet, email etc. It didn’t take that much longer for the Internet as we kind of know today to appear and the rest is history.
So yeah. Linux has come a long long way.
Wow! You must be one of the first ever users!
I have a vague sense of trying some version of Linux that ran on Classic MacOS. It was a pretty primitive thing, and I recall feeling a bit bewildered by seeing nothing but a text prompt if I remember right. I don't think I ever tried it again--for that matter, it's odd I tried it at all. It was, as I recall, included on some Mac magazine disk of free software and software demos.
Yes.
I remember first dabbling in the mid 2000s, using distros that were more or less current for that era. But the library still had books for things like Red Hat 6 and contemporaries (long out of date distros)--and those books showed just how dramatically things had changed in about 7 years!
I remember my first attempt. It required compiling source code from tarballs (tar.gz archives). I was literally holding my breath hoping I'd see the X window system fire up for the first time (after hours of it not working) and then I was left with a pretty hollow looking clone of a GUI, no theme, no Desktop Environment, nothing short of a menu, clock, and various widgets. But it was working!
I'm really glad it's not like that today, however. Theming it to look and act like I want, however, still requires the terminal. You can accept the flat UI design out the gate, just pop in a USB drive and install, go! But I'm not someone who wants the default look.
I'd say the most usable distro I've ever used was VectorLinux 6 (Slackware based) from the mid-2000s. That one I spent the most time on, and did the most hacking to. It still remained viable well into 2009, but soon fell out of date (death of flash recently made using YouTube a no-go on Firefox 3!) and future versions had dumbed down to the masses, taking away the terminal login, and root login out. They sorta did a mashup of Ubuntu style GUI and sudo-based elevated priviledges. I still got 6.x on a disc somewhere though. That was my favorite distro, that particular version. It used Feeble Window Manager (Fvwm) as a D.E.. It ran well on low-end systems, too.
I'm really glad it's not like that today, however. Theming it to look and act like I want, however, still requires the terminal. You can accept the flat UI design out the gate, just pop in a USB drive and install, go! But I'm not someone who wants the default look.
I'd say the most usable distro I've ever used was VectorLinux 6 (Slackware based) from the mid-2000s. That one I spent the most time on, and did the most hacking to. It still remained viable well into 2009, but soon fell out of date (death of flash recently made using YouTube a no-go on Firefox 3!) and future versions had dumbed down to the masses, taking away the terminal login, and root login out. They sorta did a mashup of Ubuntu style GUI and sudo-based elevated priviledges. I still got 6.x on a disc somewhere though. That was my favorite distro, that particular version. It used Feeble Window Manager (Fvwm) as a D.E.. It ran well on low-end systems, too.
When I look for any software solution I ask the question what will be used for and what is the scope of change. My personal needs were satisfied for years with MacOS (until push to focus only on iOS came along). As a designer for me was natural not looking under the hood and enjoy polished interface and beautiful skeuomorphic icons and controllers. When I started to code things became a little different but happily macports and brew came around, Apple moved to Intel x86 and virtualization helped a lot. So in summary there are different use cases for different users.
Nowadays I can do my design work in Affinity(under Windows VM) or Inkscape/Krita without a problem and Figma is browser based and runs good even under Linux with unofficial support by Figma-linux( Flatpak or Snap). In the office designers still run macOS Catalina, but air gapped and with disabled updates.
Your everyday needs can be satisfied with a lot of default solutions:
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu,Mint etc.
If you are a regular user and don't want to tinker at all with a terminal or "whats under the hood" in my view there are two main options: Pop_OS and Elementary OS.
They are pushing the idea of user friendly desktop for normal users with polished personalisation.
They are beautiful and easy to use.
If you have more specific needs towards development or programming you can live comfortably with Fedora, Debian, Slack or Arch/Manjaro.
For serious Devops, Infosec work my colleagues are using Gento.
If your need is more privacy and pure FOSS, check recommended distros by Gnu.org.
I can remember using VectorLinux for a period in the late 2000s. It worked well on the less then state of the art computer I used then. Although it seems to me that I had some problem crop up during one round of use, but I can't remember... Then, part of that era was an era of shameless distro hopping for me.