Best 4 Bay External HDD Enclosure?

[nanofrog]

Yeah, it does seem rather expensive. What are your thoughts on its sister product, which has RAID 5 built in and can connect via FireWire 800? I wasn't planning on using a RAID scheme, but RAID 5 on my backup would be that much more secure, would it not?

I'm with barmann here. You need to figure out which way you want to go (what you can do under Disk Utility vs. hardware RAID - do not use a software solution for RAID 5, as you will get burnt).

The MP is capable of 0/1/10 and JBOD (spanning), and when combined with a PM enclosure and an eSATA card, is a very cost effective solution. The other way (what you're looking at anyway), is to go RAID 5, which you need a proper hardware solution (at least the Oxford 936QES is a RAID on a Chip <RoC>). It's not that robust, nor fast, but it will do the job. I just hope you realize that you will lose disk space due to the parity data [(n - 1) * capacity of a single disk in the set]. So for 4x disks, the usable capacity will be 3x disks.

It's up to you, as in barmann's case, it needs to be able to connect to multiple systems (where USB or FW have an advantage - can connect to laptops and iMacs).

As per the unit you linked here, it's also too expensive. It's the same chip that's used in OWC's Qx2, which can be had for noticably less money ($300USD), and still matches the MP well in terms of industrial design (appearance). So unless that flat unit is so attractive to you in terms of where to put the storage unit, I'd stay away from it. The format is just too expensive for what you get.

I'm also interested in another Stardom device, here. Again expensive, but with 8 bays. I was thinking of pairing it with this. I lose a PCIe slot, but for 8 bays I can justify it.

This is just an expensive Port Multiplier enclosure (it will work with the card you've linked as it does support PM chips).

But again, you can get the same solution for less money (Sans Digital TR8MP, which comes with the card).

 

[philipma1957]

to illustrate the sans digital i have this one in black


I add a good card the rr2314 for a hundred bucks has 4 slots.

http://store.sansdigital-shop.com/totr8baysato9.html

http://store.sansdigital-shop.com/totr8baysato2.html


so 305 I drop in a pair of good fans for 40 bucks I am at 345 for 8 drives. that I run as a tm and 7 clones sun to sat. each drive is stand alone the clones are 1.5tb caviar blacks they clone my osx plus main file each night about 900gb. the tm is a 3tb western digital hdd. so I have 7 clones and a tm for backup. in the macpro I have 2 raid0's one is a pair of caviar black's one is a pair of wd re4's. I also off load to a nas in another site once a week.

 

[nanofrog]

to illustrate the sans digital i have this one in black


I add a good card the rr2314 for a hundred bucks

http://store.sansdigital-shop.com/totr8baysato9.html

http://store.sansdigital-shop.com/totr8baysato2.html


so 305 I drop in a pair of good fans for 40 bucks I am at 345 for 8 drives. that I run as a tm and 7 clones sun to sat.

Those are good prices, but it does need to be mentioned that they're Refurbished IMO. And No, I don't have a problem with refurbished gear (makes getting a proper UPS feasible for users that would run without one, or a unit that's under specced for their needs).

As per the RR2314 however, I don't trust Highpoint's RAID products at all (not much different for simple SATA/eSATA products either). Whatever you do, do not try to run RAID 5 on it as it's a software implementation (does not address the write hole issue associated with parity based arrays). This means you will get burnt if you do (matter of when, not if).

 

[NoManIsland]

What do you use your pci slots for now? Do you not have a free one or down to your last one?

I have a free PCIe 4 lane slot, but it is my last slot, so I'm a little hesitant to fill it.

I'm with barmann here. You need to figure out which way you want to go (what you can do under Disk Utility vs. hardware RAID - do not use a software solution for RAID 5, as you will get burnt).

The MP is capable of 0/1/10 and JBOD (spanning), and when combined with a PM enclosure and an eSATA card, is a very cost effective solution. The other way (what you're looking at anyway), is to go RAID 5, which you need a proper hardware solution (at least the Oxford 936QES is a RAID on a Chip <RoC>). It's not that robust, nor fast, but it will do the job. I just hope you realize that you will lose disk space due to the parity data [(n - 1) * capacity of a single disk in the set]. So for 4x disks, the usable capacity will be 3x disks.

It's up to you, as in barmann's case, it needs to be able to connect to multiple systems (where USB or FW have an advantage - can connect to laptops and iMacs).

As per the unit you linked here, it's also too expensive. It's the same chip that's used in OWC's Qx2, which can be had for noticably less money ($300USD), and still matches the MP well in terms of industrial design (appearance). So unless that flat unit is so attractive to you in terms of where to put the storage unit, I'd stay away from it. The format is just too expensive for what you get.

This is just an expensive Port Multiplier enclosure (it will work with the card you've linked as it does support PM chips).

But again, you can get the same solution for less money (Sans Digital TR8MP, which comes with the card).

I do like the form factor of the Stardom unit, but you're right that it is overpriced. I guess this is the evolved summary of what I want:

1) At least 4 bays
2) Connects via eSATA or FireWire 800
3) Focussed on JBOD, hopefully of the form which presents each drive individually
4) Does not need any RAID functions other than JBOD
5) Is a really quality unit in terms of construction and has good support - I will pay extra for this
6) Supports drive capacities in excess of 2TB
7) Can accept disks of differing sizes and not lose out on any capacity

I know you have suggested the Sans Digital unit repeatedly Nano, I'm sorry but it just doesn't feel right for what I want. At that price I worry that it will be a little flimsy and unreliable, and I'll admit aesthetics are important to me (silly, I know ).

Does anyone have a suggestion that fits the above criteria? I was looking at this IcyDock unit as a possibility.

 

[Transporteur]

Does anyone have a suggestion that fits the above criteria? I was looking at this IcyDock unit as a possibility.

Such "cheap" enclosures won't work with your JBOD requirement. Unfortunately, Apple's JBOD implementation isn't standard, meaning that if you take out a member of the pool, the whole pool will be lost.

So you'd need an exclosure that has its own controller.

 

[NoManIsland]

Such "cheap" enclosures won't work with your JBOD requirement. Unfortunately, Apple's JBOD implementation isn't standard, meaning that if you take out a member of the pool, the whole pool will be lost.

So you'd need an exclosure that has its own controller.

Good to know, thanks. How can I differentiate solutions that have their own controller? Is there something I should look for in the marketing-bable?

 

[nanofrog]

I have a free PCIe 4 lane slot, but it is my last slot, so I'm a little hesitant to fill it.

Please note that slots 3 and 4 share the same 4x lanes, so if they're both occupied and are run simultaneously, you will see a loss in performance due to the PCIe switch that moves between the devices on those lanes.

The other slots don't do this (dedicated, not shared).

I do like the form factor of the Stardom unit, but you're right that it is overpriced. I guess this is the evolved summary of what I want:

1) At least 4 bays
2) Connects via eSATA or FireWire 800
3) Focussed on JBOD, hopefully of the form which presents each drive individually
4) Does not need any RAID functions other than JBOD
5) Is a really quality unit in terms of construction and has good support - I will pay extra for this
6) Supports drive capacities in excess of 2TB
7) Can accept disks of differing sizes and not lose out on any capacity

I know you have suggested the Sans Digital unit repeatedly Nano, I'm sorry but it just doesn't feel right for what I want. At that price I worry that it will be a little flimsy and unreliable, and I'll admit aesthetics are important to me (silly, I know ).

I've not had any real problems out of the Sans Digital enclosures I've had access to, save fan noise on occasion (fixed by swapping out fans; this is common BTW, not just with one or two brands). Most of these are SAS units, but it's the same case. Just the internals differ a bit (cabling and PM chip).

As per support, Sans Digital is fine as I understand it (others RMA'd a unit and were taken care of). Personally, the asthetics are good with these units.

But so is the Qx2 if you wish to go that route.

Does anyone have a suggestion that fits the above criteria? I was looking at this IcyDock unit as a possibility.

It's not any different spec wise than anything else of the same type (PM based 4 bay enclosure).

If you like the appearance better and the price is right, give it a shot (not used Icy Dock for external enclosures, so I can't comment on build quality or reliability).

Such "cheap" enclosures won't work with your JBOD requirement. Unfortunately, Apple's JBOD implementation isn't standard, meaning that if you take out a member of the pool, the whole pool will be lost.

So you'd need an exclosure that has its own controller.

Unfortunately, what happens under Disk Utility isn't uncommon with JBOD (not just Apple's implementation = a disk goes down, the set is inaccessible). The difference is, you can use recovery software to get it back from the non-DOA disks, unlike a stripe set. To get around this, it will likely cost more (perhaps the Qx2 wouldn't, depending on what 4 bay PM unit is chosen).

So long as this is used as a backup (OS X's JBOD), then there's another copy on the primary location and can be restored to the repaired JBOD easier than using recovery software and only restoring the missing data (little faster, and no additional disks for a target destination needed for recovery).

If the JBOD = only data location, that's not the best way to go (no backup).

 

[NoManIsland]

I've not had any real problems out of the Sans Digital enclosures I've had access to, save fan noise on occasion (fixed by swapping out fans; this is common BTW, not just with one or two brands). Most of these are SAS units, but it's the same case. Just the internals differ a bit (cabling and PM chip).

As per support, Sans Digital is fine as I understand it (others RMA'd a unit and were taken care of). Personally, the asthetics are good with these units.

But so is the Qx2 if you wish to go that route.

When using the Sans Digital units in JBOD, do the different drives show up as independent, or does the whole array show up as a single volume? I ask because if they show up separate then I can setup OSX software RAID 1 or 10 if I need to. Can the Sans Digital units accept drives of differing capacities and not be penalized to a smaller size? (Obviously I couldn't setup a software RAID with differing capacities, but in JBOD I would want to add more drives in the future and make gains with larger drives)

Oh and yes, this is a TM backup of a software RAID 10 array, so there is a pretty secure primary copy.

 

[nanofrog]

When using the Sans Digital units in JBOD, do the different drives show up as independent, or does the whole array show up as a single volume? I ask because if they show up separate then I can setup OSX software RAID 1 or 10 if I need to. Can the Sans Digital units accept drives of differing capacities and not be penalized to a smaller size? (Obviously I couldn't setup a software RAID with differing capacities, but in JBOD I would want to add more drives in the future and make gains with larger drives)

Oh and yes, this is a TM backup of a software RAID 10 array, so there is a pretty secure primary copy.

When you first take a look (all the hardware is installed), the drives will be independent. Then you go into Disk Utility and create the set (0/1/10 or JBOD - your choice). Once done, it's a single logical volume (and the disks do not need to be the same make, model, or capacity - goes for 0/1/10 and JBOD). You can even make multiple sets if you wish (assumes you've sufficient disks to do so - this is where an 8 bay unit comes in handy).

As far as disk capacities, a 0/1/10 set will be based off of the smallest capacity disk, so the additional capacity on the larger members in the set will not be accessible (you can get access to it, but it means partitioning the disks that are larger). IF you do this, it's not a good idea to attempt to access both the array and any of the independent partitions simultaneously, as you're placing additional load on whichever member with the additional capacity partition that's being accessed.

In the case of a JBOD, the capacity of each disk is added to the total capacity available (no losses in this case). So a 1TB + 1.5TB + 2TB +2TB = 6.5TB.

In the case of a 0 or 10, that combination of disks would only allow you 4TB raw capacity (usable = 4TB for a stripe set, 2TB for a level 10).

Please read this carefully, and I hope it clears things up for you.

 

[NoManIsland]

When you first take a look (all the hardware is installed), the drives will be independent. Then you go into Disk Utility and create the set (0/1/10 or JBOD - your choice). Once done, it's a single logical volume (and the disks do not need to be the same make, model, or capacity - goes for 0/1/10 and JBOD). You can even make multiple sets if you wish (assumes you've sufficient disks to do so - this is where an 8 bay unit comes in handy).

As far as disk capacities, a 0/1/10 set will be based off of the smallest capacity disk, so the additional capacity on the larger members in the set will not be accessible (you can get access to it, but it means partitioning the disks that are larger). IF you do this, it's not a good idea to attempt to access both the array and any of the independent partitions simultaneously, as you're placing additional load on whichever member with the additional capacity partition that's being accessed.

In the case of a JBOD, the capacity of each disk is added to the total capacity available (no losses in this case). So a 1TB + 1.5TB + 2TB +2TB = 6.5TB.

In the case of a 0 or 10, that combination of disks would only allow you 4TB raw capacity (usable = 4TB for a stripe set, 2TB for a level 10).

Please read this carefully, and I hope it clears things up for you.

Thanks Nano, that really clears things up If I have let's say a 4 bay unit and I have a 2TB drive with two 1TB drives in JBOD, can I add another 2TB unit to expand the JBOD volume, or do I need to reformat it completely and reintroduce the data?

 

[nanofrog]

If I have let's say a 4 bay unit and I have a 2TB drive with two 1TB drives in JBOD, can I add another 2TB unit to expand the JBOD volume, or do I need to reformat it completely and reintroduce the data?

Yes. You will have to restore the data, as it will not be preserved during the initialization process (even though you're adding a disk, you're starting from scratch).

Think of it this way; it's not a redundant array, so there's no way to restore the data (no other pool within the set to restore it from during the expansion process).

 

[NoManIsland]

I'm beginning to think I should scale back what I'm looking for. I'm pretty much sold on this. It allows me to access the disks independently, so I can set them up as JBOD, RAID 1 or RAID 0 using Disk Utility - can anyone confirm that this would work?

It's cheap as chips, and easily hits my 4TB goal, and I can sell the 2x1TB I'm pulling from my MP, so it's that much cheaper still (in fact I can get two of these for the same price I've been looking at for some empty enclosures!). I hear OWC has good customer service and support, and it comes with a 3 year warrantee as long as I don't mess with the internals. Turns out I'm going to pull the PCIe card that's in my other x4 lane slot, so I'm not as opposed to filling up one with the eSATA card (especially as it looks like it only takes up 1x PCIe lane). My only question is whether I am better to lose out on the bundle pricing to get the port multiplication supporting version of the card? It makes a big difference to the price.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, it looks like OWC will be coming out with some new units this month, so I'm probably going to wait to see what the new offerings are

 

[NoManIsland]

If you are going to buy external HDD you have to consider the following things.

1) I need it to work well with Time Machine, as that will be its purpose.
2) I don't need any RAID levels, just JBOD, and if possible I'd like one that allows me to use disks of unequal sizes.
3) I want it to match the Mac Pro aesthetically if possible. I will prefer to connect it via FireWire 800: eSATA is a bonus but not a requirement.
4) Obviously I want as inexpensive a solution as I can get, but I want it to be long-lasting and well made.

 

[dbales]

Finally the Datoptic enclosure arrived, here a few first impressions.
I'm a foreign speaker, please bear with my English.

What I noticed first is its depth, 16.5" / 42cm, that's quite a bit more than the compitition.
There are slots in the back for possible extensions (an eSata module is supposed to come soon), so maybe that's why they made the case a bit roomier.
Fortunately, the weight seems to be a lot less than the claimed 16 lbs.

Looks are industrial, utilitarian, plain; no product designer ever got near that thing - I actually like it.

Assembly quality is so-so , the Datoptic label isn't straight, amongst other things.
For $400+ and Made in the USA I'd expect a little more attention to detail, but it has its charm - like you put it together by yourself real quick.

The power button is on the front panel - nice.
There is a switch to adjust the PSU to either 130 or 230V - could be automatic.

One of the main reasons I chose this enclosure are the trayless drive bays, and they work well; pop in an HDD, close the hatch, and without effort the drive connects to the backplane, very smooth.
That way, the enclosure doubles as a docking station, brilliant.

I ordered from OWC, they didn't send a manual, but I figured for my desired JBOD setup I just set the small Raid selector switch to PM (port multiplier I assume).

I have two 2TB Hitachi HDDs to play with right now, they both got detected by the OS right away, and I could format and partition the drives as usual.
I'm away from my MacPro at the moment, and using an MBP .

To remove a drive, or move it to a different bay, you have to eject all volumes that are mounted on the computer (else the eject themselves and you get the warning message); is that normal for a hot-swap PM enclosure ?
It's just a small inconvenience, though, once you have put in an HDD all volumes mount again.

Next big thing for me is noise; the place where I am right now has some ambient noise, but still I find the enclosure to be very quiet, the harddrives being more audible than the fans.
Noise is subjective, but the datoptic is definitely more quiet than an old 2-bay Iomega enclosure that I have, and not much louder than a decent fanless external 3.5" enclosure.

So far, the Datoptic case seems to be working just as I expected it to, plug and play Firewire JBOD, the only real bother being the depth of the case, but I'll live with it.

Great post. You have a fine command of the English language and kudos for knowing the difference between "its" and "it's". Heck most Americans can't even get "your" and "you're".

I'm looking to get one of these in the next 12 months and your recommendation is well thought out.

 

[ICY DOCK]

I wasn't aware that contributing to this forum was an opportunity for advertising Does anyone have experience with the Stardom enclosure? (Tip: don't respond if you work for Stardom )

Hey NoManIsland,

There isn't any advertising going on, hence no links, only trying to give descriptions based upon your question! I apologize if there was a misunderstanding at my point, I was not trying to reference STARDOM's product nor that I work for STARDOM.

 

[kellen]

Hey NoManIsland,

There isn't any advertising going on, hence no links, only trying to give descriptions based upon your question! I apologize if there was a misunderstanding at my point, I was not trying to reference STARDOM's product nor that I work for STARDOM.

I hope the is a sarcastic one. What description did you give? You said to look at Newegg for one.

 

[NoManIsland]

Hey NoManIsland,

There isn't any advertising going on, hence no links, only trying to give descriptions based upon your question! I apologize if there was a misunderstanding at my point, I was not trying to reference STARDOM's product nor that I work for STARDOM.

I wasn't indicating that you work for Stardom, quite the contrary: your user name is Icy Dock, you have the Icy Dock web address in your signature, and you suggested an Icy Dock enclosure and directed me to Newegg to buy one - I fail to see how that isn't using a member account to advertise. If the smiley was supposed to indicate sarcasm, well then good for you...

 

[barmann]

Confusing choice - are you aware this enclosure acts pretty much like internal HDDs, but with a few limitations (no Windows boot) and added cost and room requirements ?
You gain some extra SATA bandwidth, though, with the Raid card.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it's a basic HDD bay addition in case the internal MP bays are full; you even need both eSATA slots of the PCIe card (no PM, two cables).

I'm beginning to think I should scale back what I'm looking for. I'm pretty much sold on this.

It's cheap as chips, and easily hits my 4TB goal, and I can sell the 2x1TB I'm pulling from my MP, .....

Why, thank you .

I'm looking to get one of these in the next 12 months and your recommendation is well thought out.

Don't be so hard on the man, it's not like he is hiding his affiliations; and having a company rep on a forum is a good thing, imho, you can always grill him if there are question or issues re. the product .

I wasn't indicating that you work for Stardom, quite the contrary: your user name is Icy Dock, you have the Icy Dock web address in your signature, and you suggested an Icy Dock enclosure and directed me to Newegg to buy one - I fail to see how that isn't using a member account to advertise.

 

[NoManIsland]

Confusing choice - are you aware this enclosure acts pretty much like internal HDDs, but with a few limitations (no Windows boot) and added cost and room requirements ?
You gain some extra SATA bandwidth, though, with the Raid card.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it's a basic HDD bay addition in case the internal MP bays are full; you even need both eSATA slots of the PCIe card (no PM, two cables).

Yes, I am aware that is how it operates - I kind of like the crude simplicity of it. The actual enclosure + card totals only about $100, so there's definitely a price attraction. My internal bays will be filled with 4x2TB WD Caviar Blacks in a software RAID 10 - this solution is for my TM drive and I was wanting it to be external to help avoid total data loss if the computer is damaged or stolen or somesuch. And yes, I know it will use both eSATA ports. It's not the ideal solution but it is such an inexpensive one that it will let me focus on other upgrades.

I would go for the quad-interface versions they have to hook up via FireWire 800, but they are only offered in hardware RAID 0 or RAID 1 configurations. The RAID 1 configuration would be perfect if I could purchase 4TB drives, and I want to stay away from the RAID 0 for issues of data security. This dual eSATA version allows me to set it up as JBOD (which is what I want), and even switch to RAID 1 if I want down the line when larger drives are available.

Don't be so hard on the man, it's not like he is hiding his affiliations; and having a company rep on a forum is a good thing, imho, you can always grill him if there are question or issues re. the product .

Fair enough, I just still find it a little tasteless, but I do appreciate him not posing as an individual member. I can understand the advantages as you state.

 

[ICY DOCK]

I wasn't indicating that you work for Stardom, quite the contrary: your user name is Icy Dock, you have the Icy Dock web address in your signature, and you suggested an Icy Dock enclosure and directed me to Newegg to buy one - I fail to see how that isn't using a member account to advertise. If the smiley was supposed to indicate sarcasm, well then good for you...

You're right, we are not trying to hide anything, hence the points you made. But we are not out in the community forums to sell anything, rather to contribute and answer questions that maybe the average user may or may not know. However, back on topic, the point I wanted to make was that Newegg for example, there are several manufacturers that sells different kinds of 4 bays with each having reviews/specs, etc, which could possibly help with your decision regarding any pros and cons. Maybe the reviews can help you. Hope this makes it a little clear and helps you with your search!

 

[NoManIsland]

You're right, we are not trying to hide anything, hence the points you made. But we are not out in the community forums to sell anything, rather to contribute and answer questions that maybe the average user may or may not know. However, back on topic, the point I wanted to make was that Newegg for example, there are several manufacturers that sells different kinds of 4 bays with each having reviews/specs, etc, which could possibly help with your decision regarding any pros and cons. Maybe the reviews can help you. Hope this makes it a little clear and helps you with your search!

Fair enough, I overreacted - my apologies. I would actually be interested to hear from you regarding the MB561US-4S-1 Quad Bay eSATA & USB 2.0 External Enclosure: if used with a Mac Pro over eSATA, does it present as 4 separate drives, or as a single JBOD volume? If the former, can it be set up as a software RAID in OSX? I'm assuming that it can only appear as a single volume when connected over USB. If it can only appear as a single volume, can I combine drives of different sizes without losing capacity?

 

[arenajhonson]

For a 4 drive bay and bigger, yes, if it expressly states experience JBOD (that is, whether the inclusion of a JBOD disk space makes the difference for reading glasses). And when it comes to chip PM no problem, and not on the basis of suitable PCIe RAID cards.

 

[philipma1957]

look at this video on ebay


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMPHjj5cDlc


this unit is a clone of this

http://www.sansdigital.com/towerstor/ts25ct.html

http://www.sansdigital.com/towerstor/ts5ct.html

it is costly but nice

 

[NoManIsland]

Thanks philipma1957! I don't know how I missed it, but this looks awesome! It has a lot of the features that appealed to me with the CalDigit, but hopefully it isn't a scam Nano, you were recommending the Sans Digital earlier, would you recommend this unit that they produce? This seems like a perfect fit for my needs, and I can swallow the extra cost if it is a really quality unit - I'd value any feedback about this unit that people have to share

EDIT: There is also this if I want to stick to 2-bay for a more modest approach.

 

[nanofrog]

Thanks philipma1957! I don't know how I missed it, but this looks awesome! It has a lot of the features that appealed to me with the CalDigit, but hopefully it isn't a scam Nano, you were recommending the Sans Digital earlier, would you recommend this unit that they produce? This seems like a perfect fit for my needs, and I can swallow the extra cost if it is a really quality unit - I'd value any feedback about this unit that people have to share

EDIT: There is also this if I want to stick to 2-bay for a more modest approach.

You're still bouncing around on what you actually want to do (PM, built-in hardware, number of bays, ...). It all comes down to what you really need the product to do. If you've a primary storage pool, you may not need to have a redundant backup location (commonly the case; there are instances that backup needs to be redundant, but it's not all that common - think super critical data, or extremely massive capacity where recovery/restoration times are too long to manage without redundancy).

Each of these is a different solution that isn't directly comparable (2 bay unit you linked, 4 bay or other PM based enclosure, or a built-in hardware RAID controller box). BTW, not just this post, but all the posts offered up to you in the thread.

As per Sans Digital's version of the hardware equiped unit, I presume it will work, but I've not had access (tend to need separate cards and enclosures). Areca makes a similar unit (here - in terms of cost too), though you may not like its appearance as much. It will work however, if you need RAID 5 (I stress need, not want, as I have the impression something much simpler will fit your requirements, and save you some funds).