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This is true to a point. Once you get to 1600/1800 CPI (depends on the sensor used) it is actually detrimental to increase it any further.

At 1800 CPI with a sensitivity of 1.0, you have a 360° turn radius of 9″ (23.1cm)
If you were to increase this to 3500 CPI (generally mouse counts double, or almost double as you go up) your turn radius shrinks to 4¾″ (11.9cm)

You will find that this is not enough movement range to allow for precise control/aiming. Virtually all “professional” players have at least a 9″ turn radius.

The DPI of the mouse does not mean that you have to move a smaller radius, you can keep the radius at 9" but at the same time you increase the accuracy of the movements within that radius giving you smoother mouse movement. It also allows sensor errors to be more easily ignored by the mouse drivers as it has more data points to work from. Your example of ever decreasing movement circles is only true if you lock your sensitivity to be the same for all mice and assume mice drivers do not have things like error correction.

What matters more than mouse sensitivity (CPI/DPI) is how well that mouse tracks on a surface, and whether or not there is acceleration. All laser sensors suffer from jitter on mouse surfaces to some degree (poor tracking) and have some degree of acceleration.

True and gaming grade mice almost always track the best.

The problem is that you canʼt account for it. You have to be paying attention to what your hand is doing with acceleration enabled, you canʼt just react, because if you react quickly, then you overshoot your target. Or undershoot it, and then try to correct your aim. It adds a level of imprecision that you are always having to fight against, whether you're aware of it or not.

You can account for it, the bigger problem is usually when you jump between games with different acceleration curves. That aside I agree that having it off it better and personally I do prefer no acceleration curves in games but if you cannot disable it (and some games this is the case) you can learn the curve just like you learn the sensitivity settings of your personal mouse.

If you use a wireless mouse, unless itʼs a “gaming grade” wireless, you are adding further latency on top of that (sometimes considerably more) and if it is a gaming-grade wireless mouse, I hope you like charging batteries all the time…

Mine has a rechargeable battery and lasts a few weeks with daily usage. :) Thing have really moved on from the bad old days in that regard. I would however avoid Bluetooth mice as they always have large latency and drink batteries.

Edwin
 
I'm pretty shocked nobody has suggested using the magic mouse with bettertouchtool. It's pretty powerful free software that gives you tons of control over your MM using 40+ gestures (100s of combinations with modifier keys). If ever I need to simultaneously right and left click, I just bind it to 2 or 3 finger click. IMO gestures on the mouse feel much more natural than having 10 buttons under your thumb.

Having one physical button is incompatible with some games, and the software is for OS X 10.6+ only, but I can't imagine playing some games without it. My WoW interface is pretty much dependent on it.
 
The DPI of the mouse does not mean that you have to move a smaller radius, you can keep the radius at 9" but at the same time you increase the accuracy of the movements within that radius giving you smoother mouse movement. It also allows sensor errors to be more easily ignored by the mouse drivers as it has more data points to work from. Your example of ever decreasing movement circles is only true if you lock your sensitivity to be the same for all mice and assume mice drivers do not have things like error correction.
Oversampling is a sound idea in theory, but when you actually try to do it in games, it rarely seems to work well in practice—and it makes the assumption that the game allows sensitivity to be set below 1, which is not the case in most games. (though some allow it via config files)

Furthermore, Iʼm not sure that actually setting 1800 CPI on a 3500 CPI-capable mouse is actually capturing at 1800 CPI, or simply oversampling at a hardware level, which would be preferable to doing it in software and produce consistent results.

True and gaming grade mice almost always track the best.
Absolutely, though laser mice seem to be gaining popularity, and they have general issues regardless of whether itʼs a gaming-grade mouse or not.

You can account for it, the bigger problem is usually when you jump between games with different acceleration curves. That aside I agree that having it off it better and personally I do prefer no acceleration curves in games but if you cannot disable it (and some games this is the case) you can learn the curve just like you learn the sensitivity settings of your personal mouse.
You can get used to it, but you will never reach the same level of precision or be able to react as quickly as someone that isnʼt using acceleration.

Think of it this way—if you move your arm a 30cm to the right, it doesnʼt matter how quickly or how slowly you moved it, your arm still moved 30cm. Without acceleration, this is exactly how a mouse behaves, and so the game world reacts more like the real world, because your viewpoint is now moving as an extension of your arm.

If you have acceleration, when you move your arm 30cm, how quickly or how slowly you move it determines the distance that the game world moves. This is unlike anything in reality, and means that thereʼs an additional layer of abstraction between your physical actions, and what happens in the game.

This is also the reason why you are better off using a moderate sensitivity (1.0 in the game, and 800–1800 CPI on the mouse) that is fixed, rather than switching between high and low CPIs at the touch of a button when changing between regular aiming and looking down a scope, for example.

Mine has a rechargeable battery and lasts a few weeks with daily usage. :) Thing have really moved on from the bad old days in that regard. I would however avoid Bluetooth mice as they always have large latency and drink batteries.
What mouse is that out of interest? I have always found the wireless ones with 1000Hz polling to need charging at least once a week if not more. (though many come with a dock, which is handy for charging when you are not using the device)


I'm pretty shocked nobody has suggested using the magic mouse with bettertouchtool. It's pretty powerful free software that gives you tons of control over your MM using 40+ gestures (100s of combinations with modifier keys). If ever I need to simultaneously right and left click, I just bind it to 2 or 3 finger click. IMO gestures on the mouse feel much more natural than having 10 buttons under your thumb.

Having one physical button is incompatible with some games, and the software is for OS X 10.6+ only, but I can't imagine playing some games without it. My WoW interface is pretty much dependent on it.
The magic mouse uses Bluetooth, so that means high latency, and personally I cannot game without having separate physical buttons. It never does well enough at detecting your intent at high speeds.

I don't like those mice with loads of buttons either though. Two side buttons (back/forward) in addition to left/right, and a mousewheel that clicks is more than enough for me. (but I don't play MMOs)
 
Oversampling is a sound idea in theory, but when you actually try to do it in games, it rarely seems to work well in practice—and it makes the assumption that the game allows sensitivity to be set below 1, which is not the case in most games. (though some allow it via config files)

This is usually best done at the mouse driver level not in game, by the time the mouse deltas get to the game it has been manipulated at many levels.

To be honest the best system is RAW input. We have that mode in Deus Ex. You need to uninstall your drivers but it accesses the mouse delta information directly from the mouse hardware to give the smoothest and lag free experience.

Furthermore, Iʼm not sure that actually setting 1800 CPI on a 3500 CPI-capable mouse is actually capturing at 1800 CPI, or simply oversampling at a hardware level, which would be preferable to doing it in software and produce consistent results.

Absolutely, though laser mice seem to be gaining popularity, and they have general issues regardless of whether itʼs a gaming-grade mouse or not.

True but it's pretty rare for my mouse to have a bad pickup / skip. Then again I use a Razer mouse pad that I have had for almost 8 years(?) now.

You can get used to it, but you will never reach the same level of precision or be able to react as quickly as someone that isnʼt using acceleration.

Think of it this way—if you move your arm a 30cm to the right, it doesnʼt matter how quickly or how slowly you moved it, your arm still moved 30cm. Without acceleration, this is exactly how a mouse behaves, and so the game world reacts more like the real world, because your viewpoint is now moving as an extension of your arm.

If you have acceleration, when you move your arm 30cm, how quickly or how slowly you move it determines the distance that the game world moves. This is unlike anything in reality, and means that thereʼs an additional layer of abstraction between your physical actions, and what happens in the game.

True but your mind can learn to precisely control that acceleration curve, fgor your mind it is just another factor. Granted some people will not be able to adapt as well but to others not having the acceleration curve will make the game less playable.

This is also the reason why you are better off using a moderate sensitivity (1.0 in the game, and 800–1800 CPI on the mouse) that is fixed, rather than switching between high and low CPIs at the touch of a button when changing between regular aiming and looking down a scope, for example.

I think we can say this is why I think you are better off.... I know many fair serious gamers who have on the fly sensitivity it would not be an option on gaming mice if a lot of people did not find it gave them an advantage.

Figures like "1.0" in the game just means it does not manipulate the input more than it already is being by the OS and the mouse drivers (if installed).

I guess I am trying to say all of these settings are deeply personal and people can debate until the cows come home on what is better but when it gets down to it whatever you and your mind prefers is better. :)

What mouse is that out of interest? I have always found the wireless ones with 1000Hz polling to need charging at least once a week if not more. (though many come with a dock, which is handy for charging when you are not using the device)

You are right about the 1000Hz polling mice not lasting that long but I have found my Performance MX mouse (with the standard 8ms 125Hz polling speed) is find and dandy for my gaming needs. Then again I am not a pro gamer by any stretch where the higher refresh rate might make a difference.

The magic mouse uses Bluetooth, so that means high latency, and personally I cannot game without having separate physical buttons. It never does well enough at detecting your intent at high speeds.

I agree completely a Magic Mouse has no place in gaming, in fact even a casual gamer will get a better experience with a standard $30 3 button mouse than the Apple Magic Mouse. It's great for other tasks but when it gets to gaming it is not that great.
 
I agree completely a Magic Mouse has no place in gaming, in fact even a casual gamer will get a better experience with a standard $30 3 button mouse than the Apple Magic Mouse. It's great for other tasks but when it gets to gaming it is not that great.

That's the diplomatic answer. The unvarnished answer is, it SUCKS. ;)
 
As a result of the release of Diablo 3, I am looking for a gaming mouse that will work well with the game, but most of the mice appear to be Windows only.

I have Windows 7 on Bootcamp partition, but I prefer to play on the Mac side.

Any recommendations?

I jumped into gaming mice with a Razer Naga Epic(wired/wireless). I have to say that I am really loving this mouse. The UI add-on for WoW is not half bad either.
 
I jumped into gaming mice with a Razer Naga Epic(wired/wireless). I have to say that I am really loving this mouse. The UI add-on for WoW is not half bad either.

I like the Razer mice too. I've owned a Mamba and Deathadder, and both have been great.

They have a new Naga called the Hex. Anyone try that?
 
I have a Razer Death Adder and a Razer Naga and love them both. A bit pricey, but still great mice.
 
This seems like a "gaming mouse megathread" so I didn't want to create another one. But could someone tell me if there's a way I can get a Logitech G300 to work on the mac? I would prefer an option that doesn't require me to buy software. As well, I have Windows if there is a way to configure it through it and use the same settings on mac side. If there's not way to get it to work, I'll probably fork over the extra cash for the Razer Naga.
 
just a tip

Gaming mice can make a huge difference but it depends on the game, the mouse and the person using it.

I was playing battlefield 3 for months before I realized that I could program the buttons on my Logitech G9X so that I wouldn't have to switch between keyboard and mouse when flying the jets. In the middle of intense combat, the slightest edge is often all it takes.

To find the best gaming mouse for my needs, I stumbled upon this site, www.topgamingmice.net which made everything a lot easier.
 
This is why you're really only going to need 800–1800 CPI with any mouse you buy for gaming. We now have mice that go up to 8200 CPI with the Razer Ouroboros, and the result is that you have a sensor that is ridiculously sensitive (8200 CPI = 2″ turn radius, or 5cm) but also tracks worse because it is using a dual sensor system. (laser plus optical)

You are passing off a lot of opinion as fact. I won't comment on it because a lot of all of this is down to personal preference but what you've said about the tracking is completely wrong. The secondary sensor is used to judge the distance of the mouse from the mouse surface. Laser sensors have a long lift-off distance which is annoying if you're the kind of person who uses low sensitivity, and tends to lift the mouse up a lot. The secondary sensor just decides when to cut the laser off when you get to a predetermined height. This is adjusted in the settings.
 
You are passing off a lot of opinion as fact. I won't comment on it because a lot of all of this is down to personal preference but what you've said about the tracking is completely wrong. The secondary sensor is used to judge the distance of the mouse from the mouse surface. Laser sensors have a long lift-off distance which is annoying if you're the kind of person who uses low sensitivity, and tends to lift the mouse up a lot. The secondary sensor just decides when to cut the laser off when you get to a predetermined height. This is adjusted in the settings.
Philips’ Twin-Eye sensors are notoriously bad for Z-axis (lift-off) problems—particularly with the mouse position jumping quite a bit when placing the mouse down. Razer themselves say that the new 8200CPI sensor is largely unchanged other than the increase in CPI over the Mamba/Imperator sensors.

You do not need a dual-sensor system to have an adjustable lift-off height. Mionix’s Naos 5000, which uses an Avago ADNS9500 single laser sensor offers this feature for example.

As long as you use it on a mat, the best mouse you can buy today is still the Razer DeathAdder with its optical sensor, rather than a laser mouse, which just introduces problems. The only “advantages” of laser is that they don’t require a mat, and can offer stupidly high sensitivity. (as previously mentioned, 800–1800 is ideal, and optical goes up to 3600 CPI)


And for what it’s worth, I've now been back using a Mac as my main system for the last week or two, and I was surprised at how shockingly bad mouse movement was. I’ve actually had to move up from 1800 CPI to 3500 CPI just to get an approximation of how the mouse feels in Windows.
 
The jumping cursor when 'touching down' is not the same thing as a tracking problem, the mouse tracks fine in normal usage. Granted, it seems that this type of sensor is suffering from the very problem it claims to solve but I don't think it is fair to say that they track poorly. I don't use the 'lift and slam down' method and my twin laser sensor tracks fine.


I still like my DeathAdder but cannot agree with what you say about 800-1800DPI ideal. I had a DeathAdder and really liked it for other reason but I use my Imperator at 3500 because I prefer it that way. You don't get to tell the rest of the world what is ideal for them.
 
I still like my DeathAdder but cannot agree with what you say about 800-1800DPI ideal. I had a DeathAdder and really liked it for other reason but I use my Imperator at 3500 because I prefer it that way. You don't get to tell the rest of the world what is ideal for them.
If you prefer higher sensitivity, and I do in OS X for general desktop stuff (mouse movement in OS X is weird) there’s nothing wrong with that, but you will find that “professional” gamers all have at least 9″ of movement to do a 360º turn, which is 1800 CPI. Increasing the sensitivity reduces the turn radius below that and you lose precision.
 
If you prefer higher sensitivity, and I do in OS X for general desktop stuff (mouse movement in OS X is weird) there’s nothing wrong with that, but you will find that “professional” gamers all have at least 9″ of movement to do a 360º turn, which is 1800 CPI. Increasing the sensitivity reduces the turn radius below that and you lose precision.

I think you are getting CPI of hardware confused with how it is interpreted in software.

If you wanted you could have a 20,000 CPI mouse that needs 18" of movement to do a 360 degree turn. It's all about how you take the data from the mouse and how that data is then fed into the game input.

High CPI just means that you should get smoother tracking data from the mouse (as you get more data per cm moved), it does NOT have any fixed relationship with the sensitivity of the mouse cursor on screen or in a game, that is all handled in software.

The reason a higher CPI mouse is more sensitive in a game is because the game is using the extra data without taking into account the mouses CPI values. If the game/driver scales the input data by the CPI value of the mouse all mice will act exactly the same in the game/OS no matter the CPI value of the mouse.

The only difference is the higher CPI mice would give you a much smoother and more accurate tracking in game as it has more data points.

You are right that everything has diminishing returns but your statement that increasing the sensitivity reduces the precision is not correct. Increasing the software sensitivity might make it harder to play but increasing the hardware precision is not a bad thing at all. You just need to make sure your game or mouse drivers understand this high end hardware in the mouse and deal with the data stream in the correct manner.

Edwin
 
I think you are getting CPI of hardware confused with how it is interpreted in software.

If you wanted you could have a 20,000 CPI mouse that needs 18" of movement to do a 360 degree turn. It's all about how you take the data from the mouse and how that data is then fed into the game input.

High CPI just means that you should get smoother tracking data from the mouse (as you get more data per cm moved), it does NOT have any fixed relationship with the sensitivity of the mouse cursor on screen or in a game, that is all handled in software.
In theory that’s what should happen, yes. In practice, it tends to result in more jitter or other mouse tracking issues when you reduce sensitivity below 1.0 in software—whether that’s the OS or a game. In fact most games do not even allow you to reduce sensitivity below 1.0 now.
 
If you prefer higher sensitivity, and I do in OS X for general desktop stuff (mouse movement in OS X is weird) there’s nothing wrong with that, but you will find that “professional” gamers all have at least 9″ of movement to do a 360º turn, which is 1800 CPI. Increasing the sensitivity reduces the turn radius below that and you lose precision.

Yes but not everyone plays FPS game exclusively, it's not all about 360º turns. ;)

And yes, mouse movement in OS Xis weird, I've changed mine to be closer to Windows.
 
Yes but not everyone plays FPS game exclusively, it's not all about 360º turns. ;)
Sure, but the principle is the same—if your movement range is lower than about 9″ or so, you do not have the precision necessary for high-level play.

Of course there will always be people that feel differently, but the top-level players that are actually competing for money are all medium-to-low sensitivity players (1800 CPI or less) that have acceleration disabled.

And yes, mouse movement in OS Xis weird, I've changed mine to be closer to Windows.
Yes, fortunately I’ve found a way to seemingly fix it.

Previously I had tried the “decelerate” app that I got off the app store a while ago, and movement didn’t feel right with it running, so I ended up just installing the Razer drivers, as they removed the acceleration, but something they were doing required me to increase CPI to 3500 to get the right movement speed.

Now I have uninstalled the drivers (so the mouse will be operating at 500Hz, 1600 CPI) and used the following terminal commands to disable acceleration:
Code:
defaults write -g com.apple.mouse.scaling -1

defaults write -g com.apple.trackpad.scaling -1

Note: the trackpad becomes very slow when you do this, so you might only want to use the mouse command—it’s only just usable at 1280×800 on this MacBook, with it connected to an external display it’s far too slow. I don’t know of any way to increase the trackpad sensitivity in OS X without introducing acceleration though. (I’m not too concerned about pixel-level accuracy with the trackpad)
 
Thanks for sharing.

I've used a different method. I disable mouse acceleration in the Razer software and use BetterTouchTool (which I use anyway) to set the mouse sensitivity at 1. It's not exactly like Windows, which I use as a sort of baseline, but I have it how I like right now. The trackpad is not affected but BetterTouchTool needs to be opened manually every time the mouse is disconnected or when the system is first started up even though I know it is running because all the gestures work. Weird, but it works.
 
Sure, but the principle is the same—if your movement range is lower than about 9″ or so, you do not have the precision necessary for high-level play.

Of course there will always be people that feel differently, but the top-level players that are actually competing for money are all medium-to-low sensitivity players (1800 CPI or less) that have acceleration disabled.

I think a perfect example if needing high CPI mice is I play Blacklight: Retribution on PC (a F2P FPS) and when I get into the Scorpion tank in Seige mode (if you know you know if you don't it doesn't matter) and the rotation on it's mini-gun is MUCH slower than of the normal turn speed of a player (or even a hardsiut (mech-siut)) so I just crank my DPI with a button to about 4000-4200 and I'm good to go, while for me the full 6400DPI of my mouse is unnecessary I can see it being very controllable. You would also be surprised at the difference a good surface makes, I went all out and got a Razer Ironclad and it more than doubled the DPI I was able to use comfortably, and while it's a large surface too I still like being able to do a few full rotations in a single swipe so I don't need to pick up my mouse after every 360º yet I am finding even above 2500DPI I am becomeing very accurate, it's just a matter of slight/ nuanced and controlled movements
 
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