Blasphemous statement made by a relative on Easter.

[taelan28]

I had easter with a cousin this year. He's pretty nerdy. He and his wife both have apple watches and its tacky as hell. Anyways, he's made some asinine claims.

1. Apple doesnt make a device with an OLED screen because no supplier can keep up with apples demand.
This might be true but I heard, according to Tim Cook, that the OLED screens were too bright and colorful, thus giving the user a distorted image. Cook specifically pointed out that buying something, like clothing, online with an OLED screen is downright foolish.

2. The A9x chip in the ipad pro is more powerful than the chips in the surface tablets, except for the i7. I nearly lost my ish on this one. For a moment I thought he may be right, because he is the resident fanboy and he is in the tech industry, but then I thought no way in hell. I've never heard of an ARM chip beating out any x86 chip. Its not like its impossible, but I have yet to see it. I heard the A9x chip was more comparable to chips from 3-4 years ago. Skylake is 14nm while the A9x is 16nm. The only way that chip could pull ahead is if its straight up designed better. Further, the A9x is designed for a tablet. The core i5 a laptop chip in a tablet. When looking at google I see that the A9x is actually comparable to a Core M-- you know, that cheap intel chip that is as powerful as the chips from 3-4 years ago.

3. He refused to acknowledge that Panos Panay and his team at MS out-designed Apple ipad pro with the surface. I brought up the obvious things and he was like "nah, I love my ipad," as if the keyboard, adjustable stand, magnetic stylus, and fully functional PC was an Orwellian "non-device."

I hope his wife realizes what a doofus he is and takes half his stuff.

 

[spiderman0616]

People like you (and your cousin) are the reason I hate family gatherings. Technology is on my list of things I will not discuss at family events because it always turns into an argument about who likes what better. It's a complete waste of time, and it's annoying to the people in the room who don't worship their smartphones, computers, and tablets. Nobody wants to sit there and listen to you scream about RAM or pixel counts.

And I do have to add that NONE of your rebuttals to what your cousin is saying sound like anything but sour grapes and/or jealousy. You seem to have an inferiority complex about your computer for some reason.

 

[Capt T]

hope his wife realizes what a doofus he is and takes half his stuff.

Wow...just wow....you actually posted that in a public space, over a disagreement about inanimate objects.

 

[taelan28]

You're misinterpreting my tone and point. This isn't about Apple products vs the rest. He can like apple stuff. He's always liked apple stuff. He can like his ipad Pro and prefer it to a Surface. I accept his preference for apple products, and I myself have warmed up to OSX and my macbook (2013 was a bad time to buy windows, but this Haswell rMBP is fantastic), as well as the iPhone over the massive android phones (I prefer a 4.3" modern Galaxy S2).

If we are talking about user experience then fine, that has a lot more subjective preference. But to say the things he said and pass them off as fact is asinine. A college educated professional in such an industry should know more about what he works with than the alcoholic blue collar cousin back in his parents' basement (me). God forbid this man does jury duty, and I mean that.

 

[haruhiko]

Is this a Borat-type joke?

 

[spiderman0616]

You're misinterpreting my tone and point. He can like apple stuff. He's always liked apple stuff. He can like his ipad Pro and prefer it to a Surface. I accept his preference for apple products, and I myself have warmed up to OSX and my macbook (The surface 2 wasnt available in korea when it was time to buy a new PC). If we are talking about user experience then fine, that has a lot more subjective preference. But to say the things he said and pass them off as fact is asinine. A college educated professional in such an industry should know more about what he works with than the alcoholic blue collar cousin back in his parents' basement. God forbid this man does jury duty, and I mean that.

I think I understand your tone and point perfectly and I definitely know your type as well. I imagine you're probably pretty exhausting to people at social functions.

 

[taelan28]

I think I understand your tone and point perfectly and I definitely know your type as well. I imagine you're probably pretty exhausting to people at social functions.

You really haven't addressed anything I said, but instead resort to ad hominem attacks. To explain things further to you would be futile as you would move the goal posts. I'll let you stick to your assumptions that I debated him for 30 minutes on this 'ish.

No, you don't understand and saying you do doesn't mean you do, and I know you don't understand because the debate was about what IS better rather than what we THOUGHT was better. You've done nothing to qualify yourself, contribute or give anyone here more detailed anecdotal evidence as to how your previous family gatherings or flame wars have gone. You never directly addressed any of my points, because you couldn't identify and replicate them. You scanned over what I wrote, had an emotional reaction and then chopped it down to a pseudo witty response fit for gossip. I would hope that you never get in any legal trouble, because you'll get shredded.

My points were:

1. Apple doesnt use OLED for color accuracy reasons rather than production and yield reasons. http://www.cnet.com/news/oled-displays-theyre-awful-says-apples-ceo/

2. The A9x is NOT more powerful than the Core i5s in the Surface devices. http://www.pcworld.com/article/3006...he-ipad-pro-really-isnt-as-fast-a-laptop.html

3. Panos Panay his team at MS out designed Apple's iPad Pro with their Surface 3 and 4 which had an adjustable kickstand, and better keybaord. I noticed how warm the reception Apple fans (not fanboys) had towards the device on these boards and in comments on other platforms, because we were waiting for years expecting Apple to make a better hybrid device and they couldn't.

This has NOTHING to do with preference, or user experience, or even which device anyone should buy. It has to do with facts. Indisputable facts.

 

[imac09]

I had easter with a cousin this year. He's pretty nerdy. He and his wife both have apple watches and its tacky as hell. Anyways, he's made some asinine claims.

1. Apple doesnt make a device with an OLED screen because no supplier can keep up with apples demand.
This might be true but I heard, according to Tim Cook, that the OLED screens were too bright and colorful, thus giving the user a distorted image. Cook specifically pointed out that buying something, like clothing, online with an OLED screen is downright foolish.

2. The A9x chip in the ipad pro is more powerful than the chips in the surface tablets, except for the i7. I nearly lost my ish on this one. For a moment I thought he may be right, because he is the resident fanboy and he is in the tech industry, but then I thought no way in hell. I've never heard of an ARM chip beating out any x86 chip. Its not like its impossible, but I have yet to see it. I heard the A9x chip was more comparable to chips from 3-4 years ago. Skylake is 14nm while the A9x is 16nm. The only way that chip could pull ahead is if its straight up designed better. Further, the A9x is designed for a tablet. The core i5 a laptop chip in a tablet. When looking at google I see that the A9x is actually comparable to a Core M-- you know, that cheap intel chip that is as powerful as the chips from 3-4 years ago.

3. He refused to acknowledge that Panos Panay and his team at MS out-designed Apple ipad pro with the surface. I brought up the obvious things and he was like "nah, I love my ipad," as if the keyboard, adjustable stand, magnetic stylus, and fully functional PC was an Orwellian "non-device."

I hope his wife realizes what a doofus he is and takes half his stuff.

Is this a joke?

 

[masotime]

This has NOTHING to do with preference, or user experience, or even which device anyone should buy. It has to do with facts. Indisputable facts.

Actually it has to do with your ego. Your indisputable ego.

 

[taelan28]

Actually it has to do with your ego. Your indisputable ego.

Yep, the 30 year old in his parents basement sure has an ego.

Stick to the points.

 

[Ghost31]

Yep, the 30 year old in his parents basement sure has an ego.

Stick to the points.

You're saying you're 30 in your parents basement?

 

[mcdj]

So, OP, what exactly do you want from us?

 

[Ghost31]

So what exactly do you want from us?

Your souls

 

[mcdj]

Might I suggest some fresh air for you?

 

[CE3]

This thread belongs in the MacRumors basement.

 

[taelan28]

So, OP, what exactly do you want from us?

I didn't want anything from the members here. The intent was to give value. Im sure most people here have come across others with ridiculous claims, and this is my most recent experience as I haven't had anything this bad in years, and not stacked this bad since I was on the playground fighting over N64 and the PS1-- I take that back. I've heard some wack stuff said from sports fans. Usually there's poorly informed because one doesn't fully understand the subject, and then there's salesman level blasphemy, but I cant understand where my cousin gets these ideas as he is not a salesman.

The last time I heard something as ridiculous as this and someone meant it (politics excluded), was in 2009 after a Federal reserve round table at the U of M where an older woman said that using platinum as monetary backing would be better for the economy, and make us wealthier since it has more value than gold.

Obviously my OP didn't have the intended effect. Meh. Still waiting on someone to address the points to either confirm, modify or correct them--maybe thats what I wanted.

 

[Lobwedgephil]

"3. Panos Panay his team at MS out designed Apple's iPad Pro with their Surface 3 and 4 which had an adjustable kickstand, and better keybaord. I noticed how warm the reception Apple fans (not fanboys) had towards the device on these boards and in comments on other platforms, because we were waiting for years expecting Apple to make a better hybrid device and they couldn't."

This is a fact? How do you quantify "out design"?

 

[thisisnotmyname]

Poe's Law may have me here. Wow, just wow. I really want to believe this is fantastic satire.

 

[CE3]

The last time I heard something as ridiculous as this and someone meant it (politics excluded), was in 2009 after a Federal reserve round table at the U of M where an older woman said that using platinum as monetary backing would be better for the economy, and make us wealthier since it has more value than gold.

The Federal Reserve? Are you serious? You still didn't manage to exclude politics, btw, and you're being super dramatic.

salesman level blasphemy

Like, what's with this blasphemy word being thrown around so much? Your cousin has a different opinion than you about the power of a tablet. Really, it's OK.

 

[taelan28]

"3. Panos Panay his team at MS out designed Apple's iPad Pro with their Surface 3 and 4 which had an adjustable kickstand, and better keybaord. I noticed how warm the reception Apple fans (not fanboys) had towards the device on these boards and in comments on other platforms, because we were waiting for years expecting Apple to make a better hybrid device and they couldn't."

This is a fact? How do you quantify "out design"?

Sir I'll give you some credit. Your'e the first one to address the points. By out design I mean they dealt with the issues of a hybrid device better than Apple. I'll give you more credit too for calling my out on my slipperier point.

I'll say it again:

1. the surface line has an adjustable kickstand, something the original surface got ripped for.
2. The stylus magnetically attaches to the tablet.
3. The Surface KB has a mouse pad for more precise pointing and clicking for when touch just doesnt do-- and touch isnt always the best for selecting text.

To say that the surface isnt better than the ipad pro in these areas is wrong, or you have different criteria or views of what the issues are with hybrid devices.

This is more subjective or would need some hands-on side by side testing with you and I to come to mutual conclusions, but it would appear that the Surface is easier to set up, flip the KB down and pop out the kickstand. I can pretty much do it in one motion with my Surface 2. The ipad Pro has a goofy tablet KB that looks fickle to set up. Everything else, iOS vs Windows 10, battery, USB ports, display out, have obvious pros and cons, give and takes, and whatever anyone should buy is up to them.
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Like, what's with this blasphemy word being thrown around so much? Your cousin has a different opinion than you about the power of a tablet. Really, it's OK.

Im a first take fan and Stephen A smith has rubbed off on me.

Specifically I was referring to an laptop grade core i5 chip in the Surface vs the A9x in the ipad pro. Real world performance would vary greatly from specs because of differences in OS and software. If we were talking about real world performance then by all means I'd believe that the ipad pro keeps up in web browsing, playing videos, and pictures if I saw results, but raw performance? no. I stand by what I said.

 

[Lobwedgephil]

Sir I'll give you some credit. Your'e the first one to address the points. By out design I mean they dealt with the issues of a hybrid device better than Apple. I'll give you more credit too for calling my out on my slipperier point.

I'll say it again:

1. 1The stylus magnetically attaches to the tablet.
2. The Surface KB has a mouse pad for more precise pointing and clicking for when touch just doesnt do-- and touch isnt always the best for selecting text.

To say that the surface isnt better than the ipad pro in these areas is wrong, or you have different criteria or views of what the issues are with hybrid devices.

This is more subjective or would need some hands-on side by side testing with you and I to come to mutual conclusions, but it would appear that the Surface is easier to set up, flip the KB down and pop out the kickstand. I can pretty much do it in one motion with my Surface 2. The ipad Pro has a goofy tablet KB that looks fickle to set up. Everything else, iOS vs Windows 10, battery, USB ports, display out, have obvious pros and cons, give and takes, and whatever anyone should buy is up to them.

Okay, as I currently own both a Surface Pro 3 and an iPad Pro 12.9, I can give you my opinion on these matters, but I believe the better design is matter or opinion and unable to be quantified. You or I can't say that one has the better design, that would be your opinion.

1. the surface line has an adjustable kickstand, something the original surface got ripped for.
While this is true, I don't know how it was previously, it is a pain at times to keep adjusting to find what works, but I do appreciate the options. I also really like the iPad Pro's position when using the optional keyboard, and many other cases have many other options so not really an issue at all.

2.The Surface KB has a mouse pad for more precise pointing and clicking for when touch just doesnt do-- and touch isnt always the best for selecting text.
I agree that touch isn't best for selecting text, but I am much better at it on the iPad then on the Surface keyboard, I upgraded to the surface pro keyboard to the keyboard from the 4, because the 3 keyboard was horrible. The 4 keyboard is much improved, but the touchpad or mouse pad as you say is still terrible, and frustrating to use at all.

I use both for work, both have pro's and cons. I don't think you can go wrong with either device, its up to a users preference. Surface is better as a laptop, poor as a tablet. iPad Pro is great as a tablet, poor as a laptop replacement. Either one can suit your needs fully as long as you can deal with the pitfalls.

 

[friedmud]

Feeding trolls and all that... but why not.

1. The OLED screen thing is pretty typical Apple. Bash it until you use it ;-) For reference: Pencil (styluses are the devil), iPad Mini (anything smaller than 9.7" would be stupid)... etc, etc. This isn't really for or against what your cousin said or didn't say... just pointing out that it's Apple being Apple and it's nothing to get upset over (definitely doesn't warrant this rant)

2. It was widely reported that the A9X reaches and (in some cases) exceeds the speed of x86 processors:

From http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/1...-all-the-virtues-and-limitations-of-ios/4/#h2

"The A9X can’t quite get up to the level of a modern U-series Core i5 based on Broadwell or Skylake (see the 2015 MacBook Air and Surface Pro 4 results), but it’s roughly on the same level as a Core i5 from 2013 or so and it’s well ahead of Core M."

This type of report is most likely what your cousin was thinking of... and it means that he wasn't that far off (depending on the actual wording of what he said).

But do you really expect everyone you come into contact with to have perfectly memorized CPU benchmarks down to exactly which models are "faster" than others? It sounds like you have absolutely zero social skills... try to cut a fellow a break in a casual conversation.

3. That is completely subjective.

• I personally find the Surfaces to be pretty ugly.
• The Apple Pencil _does_ magnetically attach to the front cover of a Smart Cover. I carry mine around the house that way.
• I don't want to use any sort of "pointing device" on my tablet... that's why I bought a tablet

Overall... your problem is that you obviously don't get enough interaction with the real world. You speak in black and white using words that are absolutes. The real world is grey. There are many people with many different views and needs.

Get out in the sunshine. Talk to more humans face-to-face and just relax a bit...

 

[taelan28]

Okay, as I currently own both a Surface Pro 3 and an iPad Pro 12.9, I can give you my opinion on these matters, but I believe the better design is matter or opinion and unable to be quantified. You or I can't say that one has the better design, that would be your opinion.

1. the surface line has an adjustable kickstand, something the original surface got ripped for.
While this is true, I don't know how it was previously, it is a pain at times to keep adjusting to find what works, but I do appreciate the options. I also really like the iPad Pro's position when using the optional keyboard, and many other cases have many other options so not really an issue at all.

2.The Surface KB has a mouse pad for more precise pointing and clicking for when touch just doesnt do-- and touch isnt always the best for selecting text.
I agree that touch isn't best for selecting text, but I am much better at it on the iPad then on the Surface keyboard, I upgraded to the surface pro keyboard to the keyboard from the 4, because the 3 keyboard was horrible. The 4 keyboard is much improved, but the touchpad or mouse pad as you say is still terrible, and frustrating to use at all.

I use both for work, both have pro's and cons. I don't think you can go wrong with either device, its up to a users preference. Surface is better as a laptop, poor as a tablet. iPad Pro is great as a tablet, poor as a laptop replacement. Either one can suit your needs fully as long as you can deal with the pitfalls.

HA! You haven't dealt with the mousepad through the surface 2. You'd be singing the praises of the newer ones. Alas, the surface can at least do these things and the ipad pro cannot, and by doing them it doesnt compromise what it already does as well as the ipad pro. Adjustability doesn't compromise the angles, or sturdiness, and the mousepad doesn't compromise the keyboard, or any pointing functions relative to the iPad pro. Thus, the Surface is better designed.

 

[Ghost31]

HA! You haven't dealt with the mousepad through the surface 2. doesn't compromise the keyboard, or any pointing functions relative to the iPad pro. Thus, the Surface is better designed.

I imagined you saying this with a smug look on your face like "take THAT! I got you good"

 

[taelan28]

Feeding trolls and all that... but why not.

1. The OLED screen thing is pretty typical Apple. Bash it until you use it ;-) For reference: Pencil (styluses are the devil), iPad Mini (anything smaller than 9.7" would be stupid)... etc, etc. This isn't really for or against what your cousin said or didn't say... just pointing out that it's Apple being Apple and it's nothing to get upset over (definitely doesn't warrant this rant)

2. It was widely reported that the A9X reaches and (in some cases) exceeds the speed of x86 processors:

From http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/1...-all-the-virtues-and-limitations-of-ios/4/#h2

"The A9X can’t quite get up to the level of a modern U-series Core i5 based on Broadwell or Skylake (see the 2015 MacBook Air and Surface Pro 4 results), but it’s roughly on the same level as a Core i5 from 2013 or so and it’s well ahead of Core M."

This type of report is most likely what your cousin was thinking of... and it means that he wasn't that far off (depending on the actual wording of what he said).

But do you really expect everyone you come into contact with to have perfectly memorized CPU benchmarks down to exactly which models are "faster" than others? It sounds like you have absolutely zero social skills... try to cut a fellow a break in a casual conversation.

3. That is completely subjective.

• I personally find the Surfaces to be pretty ugly.
• The Apple Pencil _does_ magnetically attach to the front cover of a Smart Cover. I carry mine around the house that way.
• I don't want to use any sort of "pointing device" on my tablet... that's why I bought a tablet

Overall... your problem is that you obviously don't get enough interaction with the real world. You speak in black and white using words that are absolutes. The real world is grey. There are many people with many different views and needs.

Get out in the sunshine. Talk to more humans face-to-face and just relax a bit...

1. Not sure you fully understood the full clarity of what I wrote. Thats my fault.
Cousin: Apple doesnt use OLED screens because no one can match the production that apple needs.
Me: I thought it was because LCDs give a more accurate color which would be better for photos and buying color sentive things online.
The issue was why Apple didn't use OLEDs. Both of us could be right, but given that he's in the tech industry and the biggest Apple zealot there was I cant help but feel like he's an idiot for not knowing something he should know. I guess part of the equation was that he sort of snidely said it with a secondary meaning of "Apple would like to use an OLED but they sell so many as is that there's no way any factory could keep up." Kinda like an "our **** dont stink" attitude. The nuance of what I meant wasnt backed up with what I said.

2. Looking closely at that I see that the A9X out runs even the 15" rMBP. Impressive, but not entirely. Those were graphics tests, and given that massive resolution thats slightly higher than the rMBP. The ipad pros resolution blew me away the first time I saw the specs, so Its not out of the realm of possibility that it has better graphics than Intel's integrated offering, none the less it is impressive. So the A9x is graphically more powerful than Surface's chips, AND the macbooks. These are statements that I can accept rather than spouting nonsense that the A9x is more powerful than a laptop grade core i5.

3. I stand corrected, it does have a magnetic attachment. But does the mouse pad functionality (though poor as pointed out by lobwedgephil) take away from any other functionality? I've used my Surface 2 and I often flip back and forth randomly between mousepad and touch screen. When Im typing and editing for precision I use the mousepad more. Whether you use it or not, having it there hurts nothing and gives you another options whereas apple's offering only has 1.

The real world is indeed very gray. I used to teach kindergarten and every rule i had broke itself. Ex: sending a kid outside for 3 checkmarks was broken quickly because I found myself punishing kids for menial ****.

However these are, as someone else pointed out, inanimate objects, and there is a lot less gray here. Anyways. I have a clearer picture of how my cousin could have been right and where he was getting his heinous conclusions. After Easter I knew I knew more than him about the products he likes but now Im convinced of it. Thanks ace.
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I imagined you saying this with a smug look on your face like "take THAT! I got you good"

Never went that far. As I said I remember reading comments on this board when the Surface Pro 4 came out and people here were quite warm to it and even critics were warm to it whereas reactions to the ipad pro were cooler. So I said something around the lines of "Im surprised Microsoft out designed Apple with Surface Pro 4 since it has an adjustable kickstand and better keyboard." He seemed to disregard the qualities of the device which the ipad pro doesnt have in such an unusually smug way that caught me off guard. I knew he was a fanboy, but he seemed to fit an excessively bad, and dare I say, quite dated Apple fanboy stereotype circa 2009 where he seems to be the kind of person who buys only apple stuff because its apple no matter what they release, and its only a feature if apple has it. I expected him to be a bit more... educated, open, informed consumer of electronics and point out the positives of competing devices.

I didn't bother engaging him in debate or a back and forth. I guess I respected his technical prowess enough that I valued his critical opinion and thoughts and we could have a conversation, but it turned out he had none and I just let him tell me about how much he likes his ipad pro, which has a big screen and he watches here and there... really thats the sum of what he said when he described why he liked his ipad pro. There were no specific details.