Blasphemous statement made by a relative on Easter.

[taelan28]

Don't forget a fan is needed in the sp4. The iPad Pro is fabless. So while the i5 maybe faster a fan is needed to move the air inside the chassis.

Right, thats a fact. No argument there.

It's not that you're being rude to anyone here, it's just that you've made a big issue of a total non-issue in those most overly-dramatic way possible. Your cousin doesn't agree with you about the Surface being more powerful than the iPad Pro. He has a different opinion. Big deal. Yet it bothers you so much that you feel the need to create multiple threads on multiple message boards with comments like:

Thanks for noticing that Im not being rude to anyone. Your ability to read things and perceive reality doesn't bother me. All I want is for people to think intelligently back up their points with well rounded reasons. You are good example of that. Spiderman0616 is not.

Here, I've resorted to copying and pasting what I said before:
I don't like his perception of reality, or his responses--not because he disagrees with me but HOW he disagrees with me and HOW he comes to those conclusions. Every single person who made an effort to respond to the points I brought forward I respectfully disagree with and I like how they came to their conclusions. I like how they see things even though its not the same as me.

While writing my previous post I discovered what I was really looking for: an honest conversation from a techie and his thoughts on competing products. What I got was an antiquated Apple fanboy response, no real detail as to why he has his preferences, and no acknowledgement of what other products brought to the table, and total worship at the altar of Apple--which is a mindset thats dated as hell. I expect everyone here to have favorable opinions and preferences towards apple products, but with reason and sacrificing paychecks at the altar of Apple.

It would have been like:

• asking a chevy gear head about the new Ford GT and getting a response like "Psssht, Found Off Road Destroyed. The Corvette is faster. A yellow one looks like bumblebee" as opposed to a detailed response.
• Asking a sports writer about the Golden State Warriors and Steph Curry's monster year and getting a response like "Basketball is for actors, football and hockey are real man's games. I enjoy watching them and drinking beer".
• Asking a film critic and comic fan about Batman v Superman (a great topic worth discussing), and moving on about how great the marvel cinematic universe is and what a wonderful human being Robert Downey Jr. is.

 

[gotluck]

the bigger question is what is anyone actually running that can utilize the a9x processor to its full extent? geekbench?

very easy to find use cases that max out intel chips

 

[taelan28]

Core M's performance is phenomenal give the watts is uses and I'll say your roomie also didn't think things through or isn't a Core M customer.

You've been posting in console gaming forums since the early 2000's ohh snap you're an oldster

The commercial internet existed as well as gaming consoles before that heck in '95 I used my dialup to redial ticket master to get some Smashing Pumpkins tickets when they were playing at Paul Brown stadium. I ran a BBS on my Apple IIc in 1987 when there was actually competition in the PC space and took a PowerBook 170 to college at Ohio State.

Does the above sound arrogant? That's exactly what you sounded like in you OP which is why the s**t storm of condemnation has rained down on you. You have an opinion whether founded in reality or not the same as your cousins husband. Neither of you are completely right yet both are at some level right. Stop talking tech at the dinner table and you, your cousin, and the husband will be happier for it.

You're conflating things. I made my statements. You discredited me and told me to get on a gaming forum and educate myself. I then said I've been on gaming forums then you discredit that. You're moving the goal posts. Thats a no true-scottsman fallacy. You still don't want to take the test and repost the original topic on a hardcore PC forum, likely gaming.

 

[I7guy]

Right, thats a fact. No argument there.


Thanks for noticing that Im not being rude to anyone. Your ability to read things and perceive reality doesn't bother me. All I want is for people to think intelligently back up their points with well rounded reasons. You are good example of that. Spiderman0616 is not.

Here, I've resorted to copying and pasting what I said before:
I don't like his perception of reality, or his responses--not because he disagrees with me but HOW he disagrees with me and HOW he comes to those conclusions. Every single person who made an effort to respond to the points I brought forward I respectfully disagree with and I like how they came to their conclusions. I like how they see things even though its not the same as me.

While writing my previous post I discovered what I was really looking for: an honest conversation from a techie and his thoughts on competing products. What I got was an antiquated Apple fanboy response, no real detail as to why he has his preferences, and no acknowledgement of what other products brought to the table, and total worship at the altar of Apple--which is a mindset thats dated as hell. I expect everyone here to have favorable opinions and preferences towards apple products, but with reason and sacrificing paychecks at the altar of Apple.

It would have been like:

• asking a chevy gear head about the new Ford GT and getting a response like "Psssht, Found Off Road Destroyed. The Corvette is faster. A yellow one looks like bumblebee" as opposed to a detailed response.
• Asking a sports writer about the Golden State Warriors and Steph Curry's monster year and getting a response like "Basketball is for actors, football and hockey are real man's games. I enjoy watching them and drinking beer".
• Asking a film critic and comic fan about Batman v Superman (a great topic worth discussing), and moving on about how great the marvel cinematic universe is and what a wonderful human being Robert Downey Jr. is.

Owning one and used the other, the sp4 is a great laptop replacement, the ipp is a great tablet. If you're world is Windows the sp4 is for you. If your world is not Windows the ipp is a wonderful device to use

Can't say one is better than the other, that's up to individual use case.

 

[taelan28]

the bigger question is what is anyone actually running that can utilize the a9x processor to its full extent?

very easy to find use cases that max out intel chips

EXACTLY! I saw how it compared and beat out an intel chip with iris pro graphics and I thought "What good is this? Its not running LoL, Starcraft or Portal. All that processing power is likely used for rendering those iOS games at a higher, but probably not native, resolutions. Im sure its there for a reason or that a weaker chip would have detracted from the user experience on a screen of that resolution.

 

[gotluck]

ios games are designed for a lower common denominator too (lower end iphones & ipads), so you wont see graphics equivalent to windows

 

[lowendlinux]

You're conflating things. I made my statements. You discredited me and told me to get on a gaming forum and educate myself. I then said I've been on gaming forums then you discredit that. You're moving the goal posts. Thats a no true-scottsman fallacy. You still don't want to take the test and repost the original topic on a hardcore PC forum, likely gaming.

You're on console gaming forums so I'll be more clear..

Post this little diatribe on PC gaming forums and see how far it goes..

 

[taelan28]

Owning one and used the other, the sp4 is a great laptop replacement, the ipp is a great tablet. If you're world is Windows the sp4 is for you. If your world is not Windows the ipp is a wonderful device to use

Can't say one is better than the other, that's up to individual use case.

You see my cousin didnt even need to say the surface was a good tablet, if he just acknowledged it had some differentiating things I wouldnt be here. He could have said "yea it has an adjustable kickstand and mousepad on the KB, but they're crap I'd rather have both a macbook and IPP" I would have never reposted this. He could have his opinions but I at least would have known he was aware of things.
[doublepost=1459283345][/doublepost]

ios games are designed for a lower common denominator too (lower end iphones & ipads), so you wont see graphics equivalent to windows

Ha! You got me there. I didn't make that obvious connection.
All games not on consoles are designed for the lowest common denominator without being dated. PC games are usually designed for 3-4 year old PCs. If its a Blizzard game its more like a 6 year old PC. Its to maximize their target market. The more machines out there that can play the game the more that you can sell.

 

[Night Spring]

If you're a professional in your field, and going to give me blanket, inaccurate statement thats counter to reality then I have no use for your economic productivity or skill set.

What exactly is your cousin's "field"? You said he's in the technology field, but that's a big field, with lots of subspecialities. Your cousin could be quite knowledgeable in his field of expertise and still be misinformed about iPads / Surfaces. Also, I disagree that he gave you inaccurate statements that are counter to reality. Of the points you mentioned:

1. Nobody knows why Apple doesn't use OLED other than Apple, so everybody is just speculating, therefore your cousin's statement can't be any more "counter to reality" than anyone else's.

2. A9x vs Intel. People have already pointed out why your cousin may have thought what he did.

3. Surface vs iPad design. This is totally subjective. No "facts" to be argued here.

 

[Shark5150]

Is this a joke?

If it isn't, it should be. What a douche.

 

[spiderman0616]

If it isn't, it should be. What a douche.

I don't think it's a joke but it's definitely funny.

 

[taelan28]

What exactly is your cousin's "field"? You said he's in the technology field, but that's a big field, with lots of subspecialities. Your cousin could be quite knowledgeable in his field of expertise and still be misinformed about iPads / Surfaces. Also, I disagree that he gave you inaccurate statements that are counter to reality. Of the points you mentioned:

1. Nobody knows why Apple doesn't use OLED other than Apple, so everybody is just speculating, therefore your cousin's statement can't be any more "counter to reality" than anyone else's.

2. A9x vs Intel. People have already pointed out why your cousin may have thought what he did.

3. Surface vs iPad design. This is totally subjective. No "facts" to be argued here.

You know I wanted to ask him more about that because I was legitimately interested, but we never got to it. I think he was in charge of Lifetime Fitness's tech department and rolling out Macs at their branches. Im sure he does some sort of web development. I know he's been part of the apple cult forever. He's supposed to be intelligent and detailed, but he wasn't and unfortunately you'll just have to believe my perception on this.

As for 1. 2. and 3: Now I believe this thread needs to come to an end. I've addressed those, I've learned a little bit. I explained nuanced reasons why his statements irked me. I could re-type them, I could copy and paste, but its not worth the effort. Now I believe its necessary to bring it to an end. Everyone here seems to see the facts the same way, or vice-versa. The only differences that remain are those of opinion, and all the hate is summed up as "why are you making such a big deal out of this?" provided they read it right.

The only people that can add to this is Spiderman0616 and lowendlinux.

Spiderman0616 with another attack about how I need a girlfriend, how Im gay, an unproductive member of society, an idiot who watches fox news, a trump supporter, a misogynist, rape supporter, how I should stop playing games or go back to playing games, chop off my fingers so I cant type, or any other possible thing he can come up with.

Lowendlinux with copying and pasting the original post in the PC forum he frequents and getting back to me, and us, with the results.

 

[CE3]

I don't own a Surface Pro but here's my take on the differences between the two: The iPad Pro offers a first-class tablet experience. The Surface Pro is probably the better laptop replacement, but it still seems just OK as an all-out Windows laptop, and mediocre as a tablet. The more powerful i5/i7 chips come at the expense of battery life and fans.

iOS and its apps are better optmized and capable of doing equally powerful tasks with less powerful hardware as a result. For example: While I'd like to see more Pro video editing apps on iOS, I'm pretty sure editing multiple streams of 4K footage on Surface would be more of chore than it is on iMovie with iPad Pro. Running a big multi-track recording project on Auria Pro or GarageBand (with the added benefits of Core Audio) is probably a much smoother experience than trying to do the same with a full desktop DAW on the Surface Pro. The same can also be said for a lot of big photo editing and graphic design tasks, etc.

So again, while the Surface may have the more technically powerful i5/i7 chips, I think you can usually do just as much (and sometimes more) on an iPad with greater ease because of better optmization and a premium selection of apps.

 

[spiderman0616]

blas·phe·my
ˈblasfəmē/
noun

1. the act or offense of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk.
   
   

 

[Night Spring]

You see my cousin didnt even need to say the surface was a good tablet, if he just acknowledged it had some differentiating things I wouldnt be here. He could have said "yea it has an adjustable kickstand and mousepad on the KB, but they're crap I'd rather have both a macbook and IPP" I would have never reposted this. He could have his opinions but I at least would have known he was aware of things.

Wait. What exactly did your cousin say about the Surface, then? So far it sounds like he's just satisfied with his iPad and not interested in learning about other alternatives. I mean, if you aren't sure he's aware of design differences between the iPad and Surface, how could he have concluded that the iPad design is better? Did he even mention the word "design"? If he did, are you sure he wasn't just talking about how it looks?

 

[GadgetSN]

I own a SP4 i7, a surface book and an ipad pro.

Regardless of the power of the SP4 and SB, at the moment both the windows devices are useless because of the many bugs and issues they possess. I rarely use my SP4 and SB because of how much they infuriate me with their many problems even after the big feb update from MS.

Whilst the iPad pro can not run full application software, if you only need MS Office, email and the web i.e most of the population it is the best device out there alongside the weakly specced Macbook 12 inch. One thing the IPP gives you is a consistent 10 hours of battery life. The SP4 and SB would be lucky to manage half that thus rendering them useless as portable machines for some people.

Sometimes people just need to look beyond power and specs.

 

[Shark5150]

blas·phe·my
ˈblasfəmē/
noun

1. the act or offense of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk.
   

Touché!

 

[CE3]

blas·phe·my
ˈblasfəmē/
noun

1. the act or offense of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk.

So if you gather together as family to celebrate the ressurection of Christ and all you do is fight about tech gadgets, is that blasphemy?

 

[jamezr]

I own a SP4 i7, a surface book and an ipad pro.

Regardless of the power of the SP4 and SB, at the moment both the windows devices are useless because of the many bugs and issues they possess. I rarely use my SP4 and SB because of how much they i furiate me with many problems they possess even after the big feb update from MS.

Whilst the iPad pro can not run full application software if you only need MS Office, email and the web i.e most of the population it is the best device out there alongside the weakly specced Macbook 12 inch. One thing the IPP gives you is a consistent 10 hours of battery life. The SP4 and SB would be lucky to manage half that thus rendering useless as a portable machine for some people.

Sometimes people just need to look beyond power and specs.

I am in the market for a Surface Book.....so what kind of battery life are you getting with yours? My rMBP gets about 6-7 hours battery life. I totally agree with the bolded above....you can say the same about benchmarks too.

 

[spiderman0616]

sur·face
ˈsərfəs/
noun

1. 1.
   the outside part or uppermost layer of something (often used when describing its texture, form, or extent).
   "the earth's surface"
   synonyms: outside, exterior; More
   
   
2. 2.
   GEOMETRY
   a continuous set of points that has length and breadth but no thickness.

[doublepost=1459285155][/doublepost]

So if you gather together as family to celebrate the ressurection of Christ and all you do is fight about tech gadgets, is that blasphemy?

I think inviting this dude to Easter was blasphemy.

 

[gotluck]

I don't own a Surface Pro but here's my take on the differences between the two: The iPad Pro offers a first-class tablet experience. The Surface Pro is probably the better laptop replacement, but it still seems just OK as an all-out Windows laptop, and mediocre as a tablet. The more powerful i5/i7 chips come at the expense of battery life and fans.

iOS and its apps are better optmized and capable of doing equally powerful tasks with less powerful hardware as a result. For example: While I'd like to see more Pro video editing apps on iOS, I'm pretty sure editing multiple streams of 4K footage on Surface would be more of chore than it is on iMovie with iPad Pro. Running a big multi-track recording project on Auria Pro or GarageBand (with the added benefits of Core Audio) is probably a much smoother experience than trying to do the same with a full desktop DAW on the Surface Pro. The same can also be said for a lot of big photo editing and graphic design tasks, etc.

So again, while the Surface may have the more technically powerful i5/i7 chips, I think you can usually do just as much (and sometimes more) on an iPad with greater ease because of better optmization and a premium selection of apps.

iOS apps are better optimized then the full adobe suites or whatever creatives use on windows? That's pretty hard to believe. So why would creatives buy macs anymore? I've been hearing about more and more mac creatives moving to windows for heavy lifting due to gpu and hardware flexibility, along with the quality of windows programs not having the performance gap that used to exist between mac and pc in that field

 

[taelan28]

Wait. What exactly did your cousin say about the Surface, then? So far it sounds like he's just satisfied with his iPad and not interested in learning about other alternatives. I mean, if you aren't sure he's aware of design differences between the iPad and Surface, how could he have concluded that the iPad design is better? Did he even mention the word "design"? If he did, are you sure he wasn't just talking about how it looks?

LOL. Ok one more time. Since the SP4 was so warmly received by critics, even by people here when it was announced and the IPP seemed to have a cool reception. He brought up his ipad pro. I made the comment around the lines of "MS seemed to out design apple with the surface pro 4" for reasons mentioned by others here, but ultimately come down to preference. My intent wasn't to cause and argument, though it reads like it right now, so much as it was to get some thoughtful opinions out of him because I mistakenly respected his thoughts. His response was "I like my ipad pro. It has big screen and I watch it at work and home." He, an educated and supposedly informed techie, couldn't even mention or acknowledge what the competition had and that irked me. Thus we are here. Why it irks me is probably something I'll think about for the rest of the day because its a good question and Im sure I have great reasons that just need to be put into writing.

What people already mentioned here about the SP4 vs the IPP was actually the kind of answer I was hoping to hear.
I dont need a tablet with a noisy power draining fan
I dont need an adjustable kickstand
I dont need ports on my tablet
My macbook fits my PC needs, so an IPP fits my tablet needs.
The battery is better on the IPP.
The surface seems like a decent device but it still runs windows.

For the years hate Panos Panay and MS got from critics about the surface series and how Apple could make a no compromises device, apple sure made a device with compromises.

As I said before. He could have still hated the SP4 and liked his IPP, he just needed to mention why rather than the senior citizen-esque "It has a big screen. I like to watch it on my break at work and at home."

 

[spiderman0616]

I hope this thread goes on forever. It is my favorite.

 

[MRU]

. Thus we are here. Why it irks me is probably something I'll think about for the rest of the day because its a good question and Im sure I have great reasons that just need to be put into writing."

You clearly have nothing better to be doing if you can waste so much time on something so petty and vacuous. Or are you simply trolling for reaction at this stage ... Perhaps it's time for a MOD report...

 

[CE3]

"I like my ipad pro. It has big screen and I watch it at work and home."

That's it? That's all he said?. Maybe he just wanted to finish his dinner, or enjoy a chocolate egg.

Why it irks me is probably something I'll think about for the rest of the day because its a good question and Im sure I have great reasons that just need to be put into writing.

No, you should put nothing else in writing and never think about this "incident" ..also known as "small talk at family gatherings".. again.