Oh, how you people do feed me oh so much.
Working gives me money and improves my real-life skills. WoW does not. Raising my cooking/fishing/fighting skill in WoW means jack in real life.
You have an absolutely failure in the understanding of basic economic theory then. Every action is in the pursuit of utility for ourselves. Raising x skill yields a return of y utility in z time just like going to work creates y utility in z time. You go to work to raise your utility. You play WoW to increase your utility. Did you not pay attention in high school or did you just drop out? The goal is ultimately the same and what merely differs is your methodology to increase your utility and the improvement and creation of methodologies is where the game of life takes skill.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility for a more thorough discussion of utility in the economic context it’s used in.
There's plenty about MMORPGs that feed off of people's lack of strong psychological boundaries. The worse a person handles real life, the more they are drawn into WoW, a place that can make up for their deficiencies, and grant them easy rewards by a (somewhat) more-predictable system than real life. It is specifically designed to feed off of people's poor psychological boundaries, for the sake of a monthly profit to Blizzard. It is the same with casinos and gambling addicts. Everything a casino does is designed to keep you there until you lose.
Again, the debate is about whether there is anything intrinsic to MMORPGs that somehow creates a propensity for them to because obsessive-compulsive and not whether they can create that quality in individuals. Going to work obsessively cuts an individual off from their marital or social problems and gives them a place where they can control more completely the factors affecting their life. They can make up for their social “deficiencies” and grant themselves easy rewards by a predictable system.
Every person who works in a corporation is obviously pathological because they’re shielding themselves from of entrepreneurship, right. Oh wait, they’re not. MMOs do nothing that ‘normal’ hobbies couldn’t. Some people go out and go backpacking obsessively because they want to get away from their lives. Are we arguing that backpacking causes that or that it’s the inherent psychological state of mind of these people that causes it?
And again, you talk about how WoW potentially draws these people who handle real life worse than others. What amounts to is a tacit admission is that these people already have problems prior to the game which destroys the causality relationship you’re attempting to imply.
Again, yes, a casino exploits the addictiveness tendencies of individuals and uses it to make a profit. That doesn’t mean casinos CAUSE those tendencies. The ability of an activity to draw people with prior psychological tendencies to obsess or become addicted is not indicative of the activity’s ability to create pathologies. Every activity that requires time investment has the tendency to turn people who are already afflicted by obsessive-compulsive tendencies to become addicted. Therefore, WoW or any MMORPG is not unique in any way from the corporate cubicle or hunting or rally car racing or sports.
Basically the WoW addict suffers from:
1) the inability to "achieve" goals in real-life <--- derives happiness from completing quests which are far easier than real life goals.
2) the unhappiness with their physical self (low self-esteem) <-- derives identity from in-game success, far easier than developing real life success.
3) social awkwardness and immaturity <-- derives pleasure from dominating others which in real life would never have the chance to "win" over others.
Are there mentally healthy people playing wow? Sure, but they are the ones that realize it's a BUSINESS meant to keep you playing and paying to Blizzard. There's a fine line between seeing WoW as a game and as a business, but the addicts do not see it, and that is the danger. Again, same thing with gambling addicts. Is poker bad, evil? No, but the addiction to it is.
Excuse me, but may I request your demographic data from which you get these conclusions about the “WoW addict”?
Oh wait, you don’t have any and you’re basing your conclusions completely on unfounded stereotypes. Then again, you could replace “WoW addict’ with any term from “sports addict” to “work addict” and have your conclusions seem true.
I can complete a Sudoku puzzle in real life faster than it takes me to complete a quest in WoW. Which gives me greater sense of accomplishment and happiness? It doesn’t matter either way because the ultimate goal is utility. If these addicts rational capacity to determine that it’s easier to complete WoW quests, then they have the rational capacity to link the sense of accomplishment with the level of satisfaction they derive from it which completely breaks down your argument.
I love how you link self-esteem with the physical self. Nice Freudian slip that matches the depth of your idea, no? Again, you have no evidence to create this demographic profiling but either way and, again, it’s not that hard to achieve real world success. I aced that test with minimal studying. I got a promotion BSing all the reports I did. Oops, that’s so difficult, right? Not to mention that the utility we derive from success is proportional to the effort and time investment required.
Social awkwardness and immaturity, eh? Just moving along with the stereotype, are we? See, this is where we begin to see what your argument actually proves. It proves that it’s much easier to derive a false sense of superiority from posting drivel thinking you’re right than it is to actually have to think about something and being right about it.
Let me ask you a question, what do you think CEOs think when they’re ahead? What do you think successful people think when they’re achieving? Are they prancing around thinking “Oh, how we do love doing well for ourselves” or are they deriving pleasure from dominating other people and winning? Pleasure derived from victory is the lifeblood of champions and victors. How many leaders and winners take pleasure from defeat?
Now, you show your naivete again with the argument that WoW is a business. What is everything in this world? A scheme to extract profit from you and to exploit you the most whichever corporation can. What do you think your workplace does? They’re a business and you’re just a tool for them to exploit profit from. Do you think they pay you what you actually produce? Of course not, they always pay less than you produce in wealth and utility because that is the precise nature of profit.
There is no real-world gain, only loss. The only real-world effect I see from WoW is loss of time, money and far worse the internal compass of what's truly important in life. That's like saying I get real-world gain at casinos. The system wasn't designed for you to profit. It was designed so that the house ultimately wins. WoW was designed so that Blizzard ultimately wins. You might have fun along with all the other players, and profit here and there on some laughs and excitement, but there's more to life than "having fun". People that are immature and have not grown up do not understand this. The real-world gain is not measured in what you can get, but what you can give. WoW is just about what you can get.
The goal is utility and if you gain that, then you’re gaining. Now, it remains a question if WoW creates the most utility from that opportunity cost of time but that’s a question with every activity. Everything in life was designed so someone else wins but with the idea of mutually beneficial relationships in mind. You think going to work is designed to make you win and the corporation? Whenever you purchase a product, work for a company or decide to participate in an activity, it’s always for the sake of another person or entity. That, however, doesn’t preclude you from making it mutually beneficial though.
You've deluded yourself by telling yourself a lie that being addicted to WoW is just normal everyday stuff. It is not, and that is the danger of MMORPGs because they twist your sense of what is real and what is not. They will ultimately overwrite your real-life goals with the in-game quest log, and your real-life sense of identity and happiness with in-game rewards. Be careful of ANY system that does that, not just WoW.
That is the danger of everything in life so stop arguing as if WoW is any different from anything in time that requires a time commitment and maintains an explicit set of rewards and incentives.
By the way, just because WoW is not the only thing out there that can mess people up doesn't mean it's OK. Just because cocaine exists doesn't mean crack is OK. Are there idiots and mentally disturbed people who trip up over the smallest things? Yeah, but that's not the point. You have to look at WoW at what it is, and how it affects your life. Pointing at other things is just a cowards way out.
It doesn’t affect my life. I’m successful and probably have more potential and ability than you ever will so that’s aside from the point. Either way, the argument is whether WoW has anything intrinsic that creates the need for extra precautionary measures or a different viewpoint. It’s the same as any other activity. There are ALWAYS risks and the existence of these risks is not an argument to not participate in activity. If you believe it is, you should quit work and go work on a small plot of land in Montana and end all social interaction immediately.
There are bigger things in life than playing video games, and they have nothing to do with "work" and "social manipulation" either.
People that have no life will never understand, because they are too afraid to find meaning aside from what's presented them in the form of a video game.
Man, I feel bad for you.
Man, I feel bad for you too. Being delusional and naïve creates a world where you’re just asking to be manipulated.
The maximization of utility is the ultimate goal of life. If you define your utility as material utility, the only ways to produce utility are work and social manipulation. If you define as happiness and satisfaction, WoW is an excellent producer of it.
People who don’t comprehend basic economic and decision-making will never understand. The people who try to find meaning in life are those are who are doomed to failure. The world exists the way it does; either you try to win or just get out of my way to the top.
