Bold move from Microsoft

[G51989]

Experienced graphics people tell me that Metro is crap because it's just 2D pastel squares with text.

I grew on DOS/Windows 3.1/95. I could care less what the tiles are made of lol.

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A few years ago when Vista was released, my daughter bought a new laptop (with Vista) and asked me if I could put Windows on it. To many people, Metro isn't Windows. So if the customer is forced to switch from Windows to something that they don't recognize as Windows, they might as well switch to MacOS X. BTW. the same daughter picked up my MacBook and used it without hesitation. In Safari, she uses double-finger scroll without ever being shown. On Windows, she uses the scrollbars which is a pain.

Metro will lose Microsoft lots of customers to Apple.

No, they won't. OSX is even worse for business situations than Metro is.

And no, consumers won't switch to Apple computers either, they don't last near as long in a practical situation, and they are overpriced ( Really, the Macbook Air and the imac are the only Macs worth buying )

You can go back to old Windows by clicking on the explorer tile. I know. Lots of work right?

 

[MorphingDragon]

No, they won't. OSX is even worse for business situations than Metro is.

And no, consumers won't switch to Apple computers either, they don't last near as long in a practical situation, and they are overpriced ( Really, the Macbook Air and the imac are the only Macs worth buying )

Thanks for the laugh.

 

[MacDawg]

No, they won't. OSX is even worse for business situations than Metro is.

And no, consumers won't switch to Apple computers either, they don't last near as long in a practical situation, and they are overpriced ( Really, the Macbook Air and the imac are the only Macs worth buying )

Depends on the type of business and users
Many employees are opting to use their own Macs for work
My company Dell laptop sits on my desk and rarely gets used, I use my MBA instead
And FWIW, my company Blackberry sits in a drawer with calls forwarded to my iPhone

I am far more productive as an employee with my Mac/iPhone than I would be using the alternatives, and many others are taking notice as well

The company I work for is a mixed bag of XP/Win7 users
Field uses XP and corporate uses Win7 for the most part
Also mixed with Office 2003, 2007 and 2010
Only updates/upgrades come when new equipment is issued

Moving to Windows 8 / Metro is a long way off for us I am certain
And that is a good thing IMO
Our users tend to be average to below average users and this will cripple them

 

[Heilage]

In Metro, how do you get two windows next to eachother so you can like... work?

 

[belvdr]

Can't even do it by GPO

I've read several articles on this, and so far, it doesn't sound like this has been tested yet. Everyone makes the statement "I believe" when discussing the GPO option.

I'm still waiting on the images to hit TechNet so I can test personally.

In Metro, how do you get two windows next to eachother so you can like... work?

It works just like other versions of Windows. Metro is a replacement for the Start menu, not the entire GUI.

 

[G51989]

In Metro, how do you get two windows next to eachother so you can like... work?

Step 1: Click the Tile to bring you into your desktop

Step 2:

 

[chrono1081]

And just to confirm, you work in tech support right?

I'm not even going to bother answering you because your question has zero relevance to what I was saying.

Pretty much everyone here has already stated that end users aren't comfortable with change, I don't know why you single me out and harp on my statements when everyone else is saying the same thing.

Where I work we support over 30,000 users. The fact that when 7 rolled out the tier 1, tier 2, tier 3 and desktop engineering team got so flooded with help requests that it made it all the way up to my team should be enough illustration for you. Tier 3 and above do not interface with end users but everyone had to due to the sheer volume of questions and 7 was very similar to XP operating wise.

 

[G51989]

Depends on the type of business and users
Many employees are opting to use their own Macs for work

Of course. Its not so cut and clean, but everywhere I've ever worked at is a mostly windows thing. As far as the networks go, its 100% Windows and Nix. Because Apple enterprise networking just doesn't exist.

I am far more productive as an employee with my Mac/iPhone than I would be using the alternatives, and many others are taking notice as well

It all depends on the type of user you are and the type of work your doing, for some things macs can be great. For others, they are terrible, I wouldn't want macs anywhere in my workplace, that would a major hamper on my work.

The company I work for is a mixed bag of XP/Win7 users
Field uses XP and corporate uses Win7 for the most part
Also mixed with Office 2003, 2007 and 2010
Only updates/upgrades come when new equipment is issued

Same here, expect in the department I work in, the hardware in our workstations is upgraded constantly.

Moving to Windows 8 / Metro is a long way off for us I am certain
And that is a good thing IMO
Our users tend to be average to below average users and this will cripple them

I don't think so, Metro is SUPER easy to use, and it only takes a few seconds to go back to the desktop.

And sure, you can't boot into desktop. But I don't anything any of the computers in the building have really been turned of in....years...

 

[Heilage]

Step 1: Click the Tile to bring you into your desktop

Step 2:

Well, yes. Of course. But that's the good ol' desktop. Since Metro is the new "OMG TEH **** AWESOME FEATURE" I was wondering, for future reference when they completely disable the desktop, how one would do that.

 

[KnightWRX]

I think if a company, any company is embracing a new way of doing something they cannot give the users a back door to the old way.

But then if Microsoft is a "new way" and they need to retrain anyhow, why not go out and get new players and start a bidding war ?

That's where I think Microsoft is trying something bold. Either this wins them big with quick Metro adoption (instead of users going the conversative route and disabling it) which makes their ecosystem widespread, rapidly or it will end up hurting them and adoption, making Windows 7 the next Windows XP in terms of LTS.

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You can go back to old Windows by clicking on the explorer tile. I know. Lots of work right?

Each time you reboot. It's not that its a lot of work, it's that we're talking about users that already have a hard time launching their browsers if the icon is placed differently.

My step dad is notorious for this. Move an icon, a document, whatever, within the same folder to just a different spot in the window and he's completely lost and calls his daughter for help. Switch the whole UI around to tiles ? Ugh...

Why remove the option to set it automatically if you're going to leave a manual way of doing it ? Why remove options at all ? That sounds so... Appleish.

 

[belvdr]

Well, yes. Of course. But that's the good ol' desktop. Since Metro is the new "OMG TEH **** AWESOME FEATURE" I was wondering, for future reference when they completely disable the desktop, how one would do that.

I am almost certain that once you open the applications, you can organize the windows any way you want, just as in previous versions.

 

[roadbloc]

Where I work we support over 30,000 users. The fact that when 7 rolled out the tier 1, tier 2, tier 3 and desktop engineering team got so flooded with help requests that it made it all the way up to my team should be enough illustration for you. Tier 3 and above do not interface with end users but everyone had to due to the sheer volume of questions and 7 was very similar to XP operating wise.

No offense, but as support, it is sort of your job to deal with teaching people new OS releases. I work as a housekeeping manager for a local hotel. I don't go complaining it isn't fair Christmas has to exist because I'll be working pretty much none stop throughout December due to the sheer amount of clients.

So cry me a river when Windows 8 gets released. I'll cry your a river when Christmas comes and I have to step up the game in my job too.

 

[smoledman]

I keep hearing doomsday scenarios with regard to Windows RT tablets. That a typical dumb consumer will buy one, think it's Windows get angry and return it. But is that realistic? A tablet by definition is something you hold and plan to use consumption apps like Netflix, Hulu, plays some games. Why would this stereotypical dumb user expect the "Windows" experience and get frustrated when it turns out to be a tablet one? Sounds like some people are trying to gin up panic.

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But then if Microsoft is a "new way" and they need to retrain anyhow, why not go out and get new players and start a bidding war ?

That's where I think Microsoft is trying something bold. Either this wins them big with quick Metro adoption (instead of users going the conversative route and disabling it) which makes their ecosystem widespread, rapidly or it will end up hurting them and adoption, making Windows 7 the next Windows XP in terms of LTS.

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Each time you reboot. It's not that its a lot of work, it's that we're talking about users that already have a hard time launching their browsers if the icon is placed differently.

My step dad is notorious for this. Move an icon, a document, whatever, within the same folder to just a different spot in the window and he's completely lost and calls his daughter for help. Switch the whole UI around to tiles ? Ugh...

Why remove the option to set it automatically if you're going to leave a manual way of doing it ? Why remove options at all ? That sounds so... Appleish.

Fine, Microsoft will lose the old people market, they are aiming for the next generation. Young people have no problems trying out new UIs.

 

[Heilage]

I am almost certain that once you open the applications, you can organize the windows any way you want, just as in previous versions.

You misunderstand my question, I think. You don't have windows, so how do you work with several things at once (like two documents or across several apps) in Metro? Unless I've misunderstood it, everything in Metro is fullscreen, just like Apple wants it to be.

 

[smoledman]

And no, consumers won't switch to Apple computers either, they don't last near as long in a practical situation, and they are overpriced ( Really, the Macbook Air and the imac are the only Macs worth buying )

You can go back to old Windows by clicking on the explorer tile. I know. Lots of work right?

They can buy a $699 Mac Mini, monitor, Windows 7 Home Premium, Keyboard & mouse all for under $999.

Or people can just buy a new Windows 7 PC, those who are set in their ways and don't care about newest/shiny object.

 

[G51989]

Each time you reboot. It's not that its a lot of work, it's that we're talking about users that already have a hard time launching their browsers if the icon is placed differently.

My step dad is notorious for this. Move an icon, a document, whatever, within the same folder to just a different spot in the window and he's completely lost and calls his daughter for help. Switch the whole UI around to tiles ? Ugh...

Why remove the option to set it automatically if you're going to leave a manual way of doing it ? Why remove options at all ? That sounds so... Appleish.

Yeah, my grand parents are like that. Though I do think that Metro will HELP with old people, more than hurt them. Or people who don't know anything. If your just reading email and going on facebook, Metro works.

The option to keep explorer there is a good one, yes you can't boot into explorer. But I don't mind clicking on an icon. Takes a couple of seconds I know.

If Microsoft Made Windows 8 the way Apple does things, it wouldn't support anything older than 3 years, and it wouldnt even have explorer. It'd just be metro.

 

[smoledman]

Yeah, my grand parents are like that. Though I do think that Metro will HELP with old people, more than hurt them. Or people who don't know anything. If your just reading email and going on facebook, Metro works.

The option to keep explorer there is a good one, yes you can't boot into explorer. But I don't mind clicking on an icon. Takes a couple of seconds I know.

If Microsoft Made Windows 8 the way Apple does things, it wouldn't support anything older than 3 years, and it wouldnt even have explorer. It'd just be metro.

Metro will help for old people on a tablet. Since stores will continue to sell Windows 7 PCs, they will get that option as well if they want a desktop solution. In fact it's even easier for an old person to hit a big tile then those tiny iOS icons.

Interesting you mention email, browsing. Those use cases are touted for the iPad as the ultimate reason as to why old people buy them.

 

[G51989]

Metro will help for old people on a tablet. Since stores will continue to sell Windows 7 PCs, they will get that option as well if they want a desktop solution. In fact it's even easier for an old person to hit a big tile then those tiny iOS icons.

Interesting you mention email, browsing. Those use cases are touted for the iPad as the ultimate reason as to why old people buy them.

Yep, but.

Lots of older folks I know perfer desktops to Tablets, for the sole fact that the screen is much much much much larger.

My grandma is in her 70s now, and yeah she has glasses, and yeah, she does use the internet for shopping, email, facebook, stuff like that.

So I picked up a mid range dell, which should easily last her 10 years, and threw in a bigass 27 inch monitor.

I think for some older folks, a bigger screen is worth it.

 

[belvdr]

You misunderstand my question, I think. You don't have windows, so how do you work with several things at once (like two documents or across several apps) in Metro? Unless I've misunderstood it, everything in Metro is fullscreen, just like Apple wants it to be.

My bad, I was thinking of my experience with the preview, but I had gone to the desktop first.

That said, I found a Youtube video of what you're asking. Not sure what you'd do for additional applications, as I don't have the RTM build yet.

 

[smoledman]

Yep, but.

Lots of older folks I know perfer desktops to Tablets, for the sole fact that the screen is much much much much larger.

My grandma is in her 70s now, and yeah she has glasses, and yeah, she does use the internet for shopping, email, facebook, stuff like that.

So I picked up a mid range dell, which should easily last her 10 years, and threw in a bigass 27 inch monitor.

I think for some older folks, a bigger screen is worth it.

Will Grandma be willing to pay for that 27" iMac? What's the price difference? Remember that iMac will run super quiet compared to that Dell.

 

[roadbloc]

Will Grandma be willing to pay for that 27" iMac? What's the price difference? Remember that iMac will run super quiet compared to that Dell.

I think a 27 inch iMac will be money wasted on Grandma since all she will do is solitaire, word processing and basic Internet use.

 

[smoledman]

I think a 27 inch iMac will be money wasted on Grandma since all she will do is solitaire, word processing and basic Internet use.

How much did you pay for Grandma's setup?

 

[roadbloc]

How much did you pay for Grandma's setup?

About £350 for my Grandma's laptop. It is a two year old Toshiba with Windows 7. I wouldn't dream of spending £1000+ on something that was only gonna be used for Facebook and Office. Especially since OS X is so complex anyway. She would never get the hang of gestures and all of that other crazy stuff.

 

[G51989]

Will Grandma be willing to pay for that 27" iMac? What's the price difference? Remember that iMac will run super quiet compared to that Dell.

Only I didn't get her an iMac, I got her a refurbished Dell Optiplex Core Dou 2, and a refurbished monitor. Ran me about 600 dollars.


And its one of those Optiplex Simlines, you cant hear it unless you stick your ear up to it.

 

[thekev]

Will Grandma be willing to pay for that 27" iMac? What's the price difference? Remember that iMac will run super quiet compared to that Dell.

Noise levels typically aren't bad. For a number of generations the macbook pro was one of the noisy ones. The imac is near silent, but the same can be said for a lot of Windows boxes. I'm not sure why there's the need to fabricate problems that don't typically exist just to be happy with your own purchases.