Bye, Bye for now Apple, it has been fun!

[theorist9]

You mean the one component that makes up half the cost of a laptop? You don't say.

Oooh, what a snarky and clueless reponse.

Why is it that those who understand the least tend to behave the worst?

Logically, what matters when comparing laptops isn't the absolute cost of the screens, it's their delta.

And according to Dell's retail prices, there's not much delta between a screen nicer than than that on the 13" M2 MBP, and one that's obviously worse. Granted, these don't necessarily reflect BOM differences, but the issue I was discussing wasn't BOM prices, it's the retail cost to the consumer.

So if we reconfigured the Dell with the HD screen, that puts it $200 less than the MBP. But then, to be fair, we'd need to add a modifier for the Dell's lower RAM (16 GB vs. the MBP's 24 GB).

Dell doesn't have a 24 GB RAM option. They only have 32 GB, for an extra $850. At the very least, I think we can say the extra 8 GB of RAM on the MBP is worth $100 or $200.

That puts the Dell either equal to or $100 less in price than the MBP, but now the it's the MBP that has the nicer (much nicer, compared to an HD) screen.

 

[scorpio vega]

Your Mom is 45, and you "worked selling products for years and the average user uses their pc for consumption."?

How many years?

Where?
Who were these average users?

I’m 27.

I’ve worked retail (tech specifically) since I was 18. That’s nearly a decade. This includes apple and Microsoft stores when they were a thing.

As well as various carriers over the years.

 

[mielie]

I didn't know how to broach this subject because I am not writing this based on one OS or hardware's superiority. I like Mac's. They are beautiful, functional and powerful. They are a rip off to a certain extent, I hate Apple's business practices and manufacturing. I hate a lot of things within the various OS that Apple develops. But I love a lot of it too. Not the first sentence but the second, The OS is pretty sweet, and the various devices all have great software and hardware. Apple is pretty much King in terms of the "Best". The best security, the best design, the best cpu/gpu in mobile, and so much more. So I am no hater of Apple. But over time things have gotten to a point where I either hobble along and deal with it or I vote with my dollars to hopefully start to make a change.

I am one person so I am meaningless to Apple but if enough people in a similar situation as I am do what I do then it will start to hurt Apple's bottom line and then they might pay attention and start to change.

I am talking about the ladder and lock in. Two things I hate most about Apple right now. There equipment in some cases is objectively better but not in all areas. The ladder is the technique of upselling the customer by holding back certain features that are not costly but hamper user experience in such a way a user wants to go up the ladder to the better model, then they will want better than base specs. Everything pushes you up the ladder and gets progressively more expensive. Ram/SSD upgrades anyone? Pro motion only on a pro device although pro motion would enhance the overall experience of all users and is not a pro level feature in other brand devices. This pushes many consumers to buy an iPad Pro over an iPad Air when they really only need an air for their use case.

Lock in we all know the Apple ecosystem is great. Say you have an iPhone a Mac and an iPad. They all work great together and you can share files, make calls and texts from any device. Say you get an Android phone and keep the rest. Now your entire ecosystem is broken and no longer can you do any of the things you could with your iPhone. Even though you bought the Mac and iPad and should have the same functionality no matter the phone or computer you use but Apple locks you in and gimps your experience on purpose so you don't buy anything other than Apple products. Apple could easily offer some basic compatibility and basic feature sharing but they don't. They could still offer more features for Apple products but give all basic compatibility and save special features for Apple to encourage people to buy Apple rather than just have it wreck their experience.

So it is been a long time coming but I have decided to let go of my Mac and iPad and just go Windows and Android for a while. I don't know if I will go back to Apple because until they change I would be forced to go all in or nothing. I don't want to buy something and have half the features work because of free choice. The convenience for lock in is a bargain I am no longer willing to make and I shouldn't. Apple should want their products to work well with other products just from a business use perspective.

I know a lot of people don't care about this issue or even like it and it makes them feel exclusive or special in a special group or club. But I want to use multiple different devices together and not have to have separate ecosystems. So I will stay on Windows/Linux/Android side of things. I may be back because I still like Apple. Then I could talk cost. I can't afford to keep two separate platforms, it has become too expensive in this economy for me. I can get so much more ram and ssd and better hardware with a couple of exceptions for a lot less than Apple. Sure a 16" MBP with M3 Pro is a better laptop than my 16" Samsung GalaxyBook 4 Pro 360 in some ways but it costs a lot more and is a lot heavier and the Ultra is available if I needed graphic horsepower and it is still cheaper than equivalent MBP. Obviously Intel has not caught up with m series yet. Although Meteor lake is a huge step in the right direction it is NOT YET equivalent to M3 in all areas. But the difference in terms of performance and battery life are so much better than before that Intel is now in m series ballpark. Intel has to get to 4nm probably before they will be competitive directly but by then who knows how advanced Apple m series will be. But in my opinion it is not about having the absolute best but good enough. Specially if I am saving over $1000. I personally think Intel is finally good enough. Room for a lot of improvement-yes. But good enough I can go a whole day without worrying about charging and I can get the same performance on battery as plugged in if I adjust settings and battery life is still good enough. Maybe I get 6-8 hours slamming the machine on battery vs 10-12 if I am not. I can deal with those numbers. What sucked before was 3-6 hours average battery life with 1-2 on heavy use and a big difference throttled on battery no matter the settings. That is a huge improvement.

So I have settled on two devices since I have to have a back up device no matter what platform and I like a 14" and 16" for different taks. I was going to get a 14" chromebook but they suck so much in terms of getting a nice chromebook that doesn't cost $1000. So in order to get a fast and responsive Chromebook with a decent ssd, ram, and processor, decent bright screen and speakers in something other than plastic you are looking at $1000 and the specs still aren't as good as a comparable priced Windows laptop. So I ditched that idea and decided on two Windows laptops, one Android tablet, an Android phone, an android watch and some ear buds. They all work flawlessly together and have more features than are available in an Mac.

So my two laptops have OLED 120hz touchscreens with AR coating and variable refresh rate and a hardened glass. You can't get anything like it on any Mac no matter how much you spend. I have a pencil or stylus with every major device I own. S pen on phone, tablet and PC. Not available on Mac or iPhone. Then there are new AI features like a circle to search feature in Windows!!

I will sell all my Apple stuff and end up paying a little out of pocket but I will be happy with everything I own. Samsung and HP give generous specs for the cost compared to Apple. I have a 2tb drive on the HP and 1tb drive on Samsung and Samsung gave me a free 2tb portable ssd. If I were to try to get just a 2tb drive it would cost a lot.

Apple products are really great but both Android and Windows OEM's have drastically improved on their top end devices the design, quality and materials to get close or even surpass Apple.

If I were to go all in on Apple with only one laptop, one iPad, one watch and ear buds it would cost me at least double and I would half the specs in order to do it with lesser hardware in some areas. M3 would be faster in some ways but not all. M3 Pro or better is faster and better in battery life but at the price point of pro m3 and decent specs cost gets prohibitive specially in the 16" which I would want but it is such a heavy beast. It is close to 5 pounds while my 16" GB4 is only 3.5 pounds. Big difference. And the GB4 still feels solid and has an objectively better screen for everything but brightness.

So while I will miss Apple and I have no hard feelings I am pretty confident with my choice. I have been using computers since before Apple 2 and Windows 95. I remember DOS and green and amber CRT screens. So I am very comfortable in any computing environment from flashy GUI to Text prompts. Apple and Unix have always been more complex for me to use because there are more steps for me to take toa accomplish the same task in Windows. Linux is very similar to Unix but some interfaces can look a lot like Windows. And I really like the ability to use Linux if I want to on my laptop.

I may visit a Chromebook again when they get some more compelling devices. I really like ChromeOS and being able to use a full Linux install within ChromeOS is very cool. The hardware just needs to catch up. I am not paying $600 for a laptop with EMMC storage or a celeron processor. I can't stand 250nits 45%ntsc screens!! Like put an ultra 7 155h 16gb ddr5x ram, 120hz Oled touch screen, minimum 256gb nvme pci4 ssd. all in a nice aluminum build. Priced at say $799. It would be the perfect Chromebook but now we got crap.

So Windows and Android for now....

Good luck, see you in six months.

 

[LeeW]

Let’s keep it real. It’s you guys thinking you should have more ram because of apple asking price.

Not really. It's because of the asking price for additions. $200 for 8GB RAM and $200 for 256GB Disk.

I pay for it, but I don't have to like it. I have given Apple more money over the last 25+ years than most of the people on these forums. If I want to complain about it, I will.

 

[IlluminatedSage]

I get frustrated with apple also. The non-user upgradeable SSD or Ram forcing you to buy at higher prices than anywhere else from them is awful. Can't emphasize this enough to Apple, and they wont care because it allows them to extract more profits from their customers.

Still the OS is pretty good. too much limitations to the so called walled garden as other developers and etc are pushing against in europe. Like a computer, I dont want to be limited to what Apple will approve on iOS. time will tell as regulators push back.

but I understand why you are moving on. I may get a windows machine to balance things out and do things I can't on a Mac. games. voice dictation and more.

 

[Technerd108]

Good luck, see you in six months.

Thank you for the valuable contribution.

It is interesting how many one line responses I get like this. It is obvious the poster has no clue but wanted to throw a jab because they are upset.

It also makes me think that Apple users are maybe a group I thought were a lot different than they are. This forum has been a wake up call.

There are a lot of great forum members here on this site in general but I have noticed in the Alternatives a very different vibe than the main Apple forums.

It seems if you have any opinion outside the current popular opinion like buy the most expensive MBP or you are a fool, you get bullied by people. It will come in waves where they will get their friends to a post and gang up on you. It is crazy. And that was when I was all in on Apple with a Mac. Once I sold my MacBook Pro for an air you would have thought I was the biggest idiot in the world. Again I was posting in the MacBook air sub forum and a bunch of MacBook Pro owners started mansplaining me(best way I can describe it even though I am a man) and ganging up on me saying how only the MBP is a good value and I am stupid for throwing my money on an inferior air. This went on and on. To me that is just nuts.

I am not going anywhere but it has been enlightening to see the different behavior at different sub forums on the same site.

 

[sracer]

Thank you for the valuable contribution.

It is interesting how many one line responses I get like this. It is obvious the poster has no clue but wanted to throw a jab because they are upset.

It also makes me think that Apple users are maybe a group I thought were a lot different than they are. This forum has been a wake up call.

There are a lot of great forum members here on this site in general but I have noticed in the Alternatives a very different vibe than the main Apple forums. It seems if you have any opinion outside the current popular opinion like buy the most expensive MBP or you are a fool, you get bullied by people. It will come in waves where they will get their friends to a post and gang up on you. It is crazy.

I am not going anywhere but it has been enlightening to see the different behavior at different sub forums on the same site.

I take it all in stride. I've been simultaneously accused of being an Apple apologist and Apple hater in response to a single post. 😂🤣

My experiences with the Alternatives sub-forums on MR have been quite different from yours. Whether I'm discussing Android, Samsung tablets, Chromebooks, Amazon's Fire tablets, running other OSes on Apple hardware, the interractions on MR have been of a higher quality and more engaging than I've experienced on forums dedicated to those platforms. So much so that I've stopped participating on those and stay here, and on their respective sub-reddits (which also have been generally positive).

 

[jakey rolling]

There are a lot of great forum members here on this site in general but I have noticed in the Alternatives a very different vibe than the main Apple forums. It seems if you have any opinion outside the current popular opinion like buy the most expensive MBP or you are a fool, you get bullied by people. It will come in waves where they will get their friends to a post and gang up on you. It is crazy.

Coming to this site as an ex-Apple fanatic is kind of like turning 45 and deciding to re-watch a Pauly Shore movie from the 1990s. You might still laugh once in a while, but in the back of your mind, you're cringing at the realization of the kind of person you must have been back then.

 

[Technerd108]

I take it all in stride. I've been simultaneously accused of being an Apple apologist and Apple hater in response to a single post. 😂🤣

My experiences with the Alternatives sub-forums on MR have been quite different from yours. Whether I'm discussing Android, Samsung tablets, Chromebooks, Amazon's Fire tablets, running other OSes on Apple hardware, the interractions on MR have been of a higher quality and more engaging than I've experienced on forums dedicated to those platforms. So much so that I've stopped participating on those and stay here, and on their respective sub-reddits (which also have been generally positive).

I think I miscommunicated in my post. I am basically saying the same thing as you.

In the alternatives subforums on this site although there are still rude people there are a LOT more open minded and educated people than in the main Mac, iPhone or iPad focused forums.

I have also found the quality of discussion on these sub forums like this one to be better than other sites and forums as well. Reddit is a flaming hot Cheeto actually on fire!

 

[turbineseaplane]

Good luck, see you in six months.

Why even come into the "Alternatives to Mac Hardware" section and post something like this?
You're adding nothing to the discussion

 

[Technerd108]

Oooh, what a snarky and clueless reponse.

Why is it that those who understand the least tend to behave the worst?

Logically, what matters when comparing laptops isn't the absolute cost of the screens, it's their delta.

And according to Dell's retail prices, there's not much delta between a screen nicer than than that on the 13" M2 MBP, and one that's obviously worse. Granted, these don't necessarily reflect BOM differences, but the issue I was discussing wasn't BOM prices, it's the retail cost to the consumer.

View attachment 2360502

So if we reconfigured the Dell with the HD screen, that puts it $200 less than the MBP. But then, to be fair, we'd need to add a modifier for the Dell's lower RAM (16 GB vs. the MBP's 24 GB).

Dell doesn't have a 24 GB RAM option. They only have 32 GB, for an extra $850. At the very least, I think we can say the extra 8 GB of RAM on the MBP is worth $100 or $200.

View attachment 2360504

That puts the Dell either equal to or $100 less in price than the MBP, but now the it's the MBP that has the nicer (much nicer, compared to an HD) screen.

Dell XPS line is not an example of value.

Always liked Dell XPS designs but after my experience with their gaming rigs I won't buy Dell again. Had a really nice Alienware tank. Beautiful machine. Loved it. Thermals......a joke. On a gaming laptop. Also the screen wasn't great. Dell seems to always hold back specs and upcharge but even when you go up it is still missing something.

HP or Lenovo will give you a better laptop for less. Asus will too. I would buy an Asus over Dell in a heartbeat and same with HP. Lenovo is okay, hardware is nice but customer service is lacking and I had two Lenovo laptops have serious hardware failures within a few months of ownership. Never had anything like that from any other OEM.

Configure an HP Spectre 14 or 16" 2024 version at HP. Prices will be a lot better. BUT Dell, HP, and Lenovo have their own sales often and you can save 30% or more on a brand new laptop depending on the sale and time of the year.

So if you wanted to cherry pick the most expensive custom configurable Windows laptop and compare to a Mac you did a great job.

Here is an example of a 14" with better specs than listed and I am sure for less,

HP Spectre 2 in 1 14" 2.8K OLED Touch Screen Laptop Intel Core Ultra 7 Intel Evo Edition 32GB Memory 2TB SSD Nightfall Black HP 14-EU0023DX - Best Buy

Shop HP Spectre 2 in 1 14" 2.8K OLED Touch Screen Laptop Intel Core Ultra 7 Intel Evo Edition 32GB Memory 2TB SSD Nightfall Black products at Best Buy. Find low everyday prices and buy online for delivery or in-store pick-up. Price Match Guarantee.

www.bestbuy.com

I have a screenshot of config upgrade options from HP.com right now. Much less expensive than Dell and we are still talking top of the line Windows laptop. You can get a 14" or 16" configs with the 16" available with Nvidia 4050.

The example below it costs $100 to upgrade from Ultra 5 to Ultra 7 and $50 to go from 16gb to 32gb ram. $50! ddr5x 7656 ram 16gb for $50. I don't even think I could buy it from Corsair or some other company for less? If I could upgrade it. These are affordable and reasonable upgrades. Dell nor Apple seem to match?

 

[rin67630]

After two years trying to accept macOS, I am back to Windows/Linux. Half a year ago I left iOS for Android.
Finally, I am not infantilized any more. Everything feels more natural with less restrictions.
I can copy again like I used to, unrestricted between my smartphone and my PC. Specially speaking about retrieving music, which Apple prevented fully. I don't need weird apps like Photos to retrieve my phone's pictures into a folder in a ridiculous two-step process any more: I do it naturally, how it always should be done: using the file manager.

I can run now my apps again without worrying about versions compatibility.
And these apps are ways more powerful, compared with their stripped down Mac-Versions.

OK, Windows GUI has some antiquated screens when you get into the guts, but I can live with that.
Personally, I would by far prefer Linux's design, but the missing support from the mainline apps editors prevents me to use it as a main driver.

I now run Windows on Apple's hardware: my good old Macbook pro 2014, one of the best Apple produced.
I also keep using my iMac 2015 Retina.
And there, Windows feels ways better at home than MacOS: the single menu was just ridiculous to use on 5K screens where I was expected to operate an app placed at the bottom right of the screen from the top left of the desktop: how weird was that?

The only single thing I will regret from macOS Mojave: the very convenient off-line dictation, which Apple jeopardized anyway on Catalina and ff.

 

[scorpio vega]

Not really. It's because of the asking price for additions. $200 for 8GB RAM and $200 for 256GB Disk.

I pay for it, but I don't have to like it. I have given Apple more money over the last 25+ years than most of the people on these forums. If I want to complain about it, I will.

Complain away.

 

[Technerd108]

After two years trying to accept macOS, I am back to Windows/Linux. Half a year ago I left iOS for Android.
Finally, I am not infantilized any more. Everything feels more natural with less restrictions.
I can copy again like I used to, unrestricted between my smartphone and my PC.Don't need weird apps like Photos to retrieve my phone's pictures into a folder.
I can run now my apps again without worrying about versions compatibility.
And these apps are ways more powerful, compared with their stripped down Mac-Versions.
OK, Windows GUI has some antiquated screens when you get into the guts, but I can live with that.
Personally, I would by far prefer Linux's design, but the missing support from the mainline apps editors prevents me to use it as a main driver.
I now run Windows on my good old Macbook pro 2014, one of the best Apple produced.
I also keep using my iMac 2015 Retina. And there, Windows feels ways better at home than MacOS: the single menu was just ridiculous to use on 5K screens where I was expected to operate an app placed at the bottom right of the screen from the top left of the desktop: how weird was that?
The only single thing I will regret from macOS Mojave: the very convenient off-line dictation, which Apple jeopardized anyway on Catalina and ff.

I have a lot of small annoyances with MacOS but overall the platform is very stable and secure. The beauty of it is also why it feels sort of the same on a fast device as a medium slow device. Windows animations are faster and make the UI feel faster. But the entire interface of Mac's used to be well organized, well thought out and a thing of beauty which is really hard to pull off and what is why I have admired MacOS for so long but the recent trend of making menu's like iOS makes absolutely no sense on a non touch enabled device.

It is very possible that Apple is going to pull a Windows 8 on Mac users and piss a lot of people off and make a lot of people want to upgrade and that is adding touch to MacOS and adding touchscreens on MacBooks. Then slowly changing the interface even before touch is enabled would make sense to familiarize your users before it gets introduced. I have heard rumors of MacBooks with touchscreens and this would align with those rumors.

What would iPad Pro users feel like if suddenly MacBooks had a touchscreen?

But overall the MacOS experience is still very polished and well done. The apps are polished and all match the UI. There are some very good MacOS exclusive software for creatives and this can't be discounted. For the majority of average users though this is a niche case so it doesn't really apply.

I like MacOS but there are still some elements that make my experience less intuitive than it should be vs Windows or Linux. Linux can be extremely user unfriendly and compatibility is still a huge problem for software and hardware. But Linux has come a long way and distribution's like Ubuntu and Mint Linux can really get a modern laptop running with mostly everything working correctly out of the box. However, I have had problems on certain laptops with certain basic drivers. I have had kernel updates break my system. Then there is open source software in general. Certain mainstream apps can be really great but if you need something else it can be very hit and miss in terms of actual functionality. Linux works best on desktops where I would totally use it in dual boot scenario. Those dual boot systems can be unstable though. I want to try Linux within Windows. I hear that I can install Ubuntu within Windows and then choose which OS to boot into without dual booting. I really want to try this but haven't taken the time yet.

 

[mielie]

Thank you for the valuable contribution.

It is interesting how many one line responses I get like this. It is obvious the poster has no clue but wanted to throw a jab because they are upset.

It also makes me think that Apple users are maybe a group I thought were a lot different than they are. This forum has been a wake up call.

There are a lot of great forum members here on this site in general but I have noticed in the Alternatives a very different vibe than the main Apple forums.

It seems if you have any opinion outside the current popular opinion like buy the most expensive MBP or you are a fool, you get bullied by people. It will come in waves where they will get their friends to a post and gang up on you. It is crazy. And that was when I was all in on Apple with a Mac. Once I sold my MacBook Pro for an air you would have thought I was the biggest idiot in the world. Again I was posting in the MacBook air sub forum and a bunch of MacBook Pro owners started mansplaining me(best way I can describe it even though I am a man) and ganging up on me saying how only the MBP is a good value and I am stupid for throwing my money on an inferior air. This went on and on. To me that is just nuts.

I am not going anywhere but it has been enlightening to see the different behavior at different sub forums on the same site.

I'm not angry, I said it in jest. Although I think maybe the grass on the other side always does look greener. I would definitely consider moving to some form of Linux OS if I was going to move away from Apple, I find Windows way to clunky and unreliable.

Like I said before, good luck!

 

[Technerd108]

I'm not angry, I said it in jest. Although I think maybe the grass on the other side always does look greener. I would definitely consider moving to some form of Linux OS if I was going to move away from Apple, I find Windows way to clunky and unreliable.

Like I said before, good luck!

If you are going to try and defend your actions and say it was just a joke let me ask this? Do you think it is funny in a nice way or in a sarcastic FU kind of way?

When was the last time you used Windows as a primary OS and laptop/desktop?

Seems your idea of unstable is pretty old and clunky how?
I have not had a stability issue with Windows in a decade. It is actually more reliable than MacOS.

What forms of Linux were you interested in and why? Why is Linux OS better than Windows objectively speaking? Linux is a great OS but it lacks hardware and software compatibility with peripheral's and other business related systems in terms of software. There is a lot of software available to MacOS and Windows that is not available on Linux. Linux can have basic hardware compatibility issues with graphics and other basic drivers on a Windows laptop not made specifically for Linux.

Someone vested in the Mac and Apple ecosystem where configuration is mostly done for you and all things work together would be a nightmare in Linux. At least with Windows you could replicate an ecosystem and all your devices. Maybe Ubuntu now has a feature where your Android phone is connected like Apple and Microsoft then my point would be moot. But even then it would not be as seamless and feature rich as what you are used to.

Windows and Microsoft have made a lot of mistakes over the years and currently the subscription model of Windows sucks but the OS has improved a lot over the years. I have my gripes about the control panel and settings being in different places and the legacy prompts seemingly carried over from the DOS years but you have sudo prompts in MacOS that work much like Linux and have a text UI instead of GUI Apple is so famous for. All of the GUI is running by text code so if you want to run a command using a text prompt like sudo or command promt are way faster than any GUI. So I don't mind those older interfaces but they should be organized in one place instead of all over the UI in various places buried under sub menus. But Windows is mostly intuitive and fast. It gets out of my way and lets me do the task at hand where there is more hand holding to get where you need to go and restrictions that seem arbitrary in MacOS. The main weaknesses of Windows used to be security and stability. Anyone remember Windows ME, right before Windows 2000? Yeah, I do, I was one of the unlucky ones when the system would just freeze in the middle of what you were doing. If you had been doing work for some time it would just be gone. Tons of viruses and malware. It was so bad that is what peaked my interest in Linux. From that point on I was hooked but it was a very difficult road back then when nothing worked and getting xorg to configure with your laptop screen was a miricle or getting wifi to work. But over time Linux and Windows have greatly improved. It has been a roller coaster but I give Microsoft credit for going touch in Windows 8. Having a full Windows install on a tablet was fricken amazing back then and still is now. Windows took some risks and didn't take others where it should have but at least they have tried. With Apple I feel they were innovative with their hardware back when the first iPhone and iPad were introduced they had so much potential and Steve told us iPad would replace our laptops in time but that never happened and now we don't have anything truly innovative from Apple in a while. iPod anyone? Back in the day to have your entire music library in your pocket was a game changer. Now we have iPhone with Titanium. We have VR glasses no one wants. We have crazy expensive iPad Pro with tons of power and crazy expensive accessories to turn them into laptop replacements yet the OS is gimped so they can never truly use all the power of their tablets.

ChromeOS is more useful with a full desktop version of Chrome than an iPad Pro with iPadOS and that is embarressing.

 

[JSchwage]

Not sure what Android phones you've used, but I am on only my third in 12 years. Bought a Nexus 4 when they were new (2012) and that one lasted without any major issues until the Samsung Note 8 came out (2017). Bought the Note 8 when it was first released, kept it until last summer when I finally upgraded to the 23 Ultra. The closest thing to a hardware or software issue I ever encountered was some dust bunnies had collected in the charging port of the Note 8 at one point, causing it to no longer connect properly to a cable. Five minutes at a "Mobile Klinik" and zero dollars later, that phone was back to normal.

I know so many Apple fans like to tout the "they last forever and Android dies in a month" myth, but c'mon - most normal people know that is absolute BS.

I had a couple Samsungs, LGs, and a Nexus 6. All developed issues within a year or so. I also personally know someone who had to send his Pixel 6 in for repair on three separate occasions within a year. The only issue I've ever had with an iPhone was the 4S power button issue back in the day.

I notice you didn't mention anything about OS/security patch support however.

 

[Cape Dave]

I have not had a stability issue with Windows in a decade. It is actually more reliable than MacOS.

Finally, someone gets it! You speak the truth.

 

[theorist9]

So if you wanted to cherry pick the most expensive custom configurable Windows laptop and compare to a Mac you did a great job.

Seriously, are you not capable of discussing this stuff without being a snarky jerk? And it's not just your sarcastic "great job." It's also a dishonest misrepresentation to say I cherry-picked that to make PC's look expensive, as I demonstrate below. Why can't you instead just be civil, collegial, and straightforward, and simply say where you disagree and why?

As for the substance of your criticism, the HP spectre you linked as being "much less expensive than Dell" is only $70 less ($1230 vs. $1300) than the XPS13+ I used in my own comparison (with the same storage and RAM).

A difference of 70/1300 = 5% doesn't qualify as "much less expensive". And I've already established that the discounted $1300 13" Apple M2 MBP I suggested as an option gives you more machine for the money than the Dell. So the HP doesn't offer significantly more in that regard.

HP Spectre 2 in 1 14" 2.8K OLED Touch Screen Laptop Intel Core Ultra 7 Intel Evo Edition 32GB Memory 2TB SSD Nightfall Black HP 14-EU0023DX - Best Buy

Shop HP Spectre 2 in 1 14" 2.8K OLED Touch Screen Laptop Intel Core Ultra 7 Intel Evo Edition 32GB Memory 2TB SSD Nightfall Black products at Best Buy. Find low everyday prices and buy online for delivery or in-store pick-up. Price Match Guarantee.

www.bestbuy.com

I have a screenshot of config upgrade options from HP.com right now. Much less expensive than Dell and we are still talking top of the line Windows laptop. You can get a 14" or 16" configs with the 16" available with Nvidia 4050.

 

[jakey rolling]

I notice you didn't mention anything about OS/security patch support however.

Nice thing about Android is that security updates are separate from the OS. I was never without any security updates.

 

[Technerd108]

Finally, someone gets it! You speak the truth.

I remember a friend of mine in the design department while I was in IT. It was an all Mac team. He used both Mac's and Windows and preferred Windows because it was more stable than MacOS and this was probably around Windows 10 just came out. So it has been a while for sure. It is not that either are unstable it is when a Mac has an instability it caused more problems than with Windows and occurred more frequently.

I have been using both for many years and again during the days before XP at least for me, MacOS was much better looking, more stable and WAY more secure!! Things have changed, except MacOS still looks better! Lol

 

[Technerd108]

Seriously, are you not capable of discussing this stuff without being a snarky jerk? And it's not just your sarcastic "great job." It's also a dishonest misrepresentation to say I cherry-picked that to make PC's look expensive, as I demonstrate below. Why can't you instead just be civil, collegial, and straightforward, and simply say where you disagree and why?

As for the substance of your criticism, the HP spectre you linked as being "much less expensive than Dell" is only $70 less ($1230 vs. $1300) than the XPS13+ I used in my own comparison (with the same storage and RAM).

A difference of 70/1300 = 5% doesn't qualify as "much less expensive". And I've already established that the discounted $1300 13" Apple M2 MBP I suggested as an option gives you more machine for the money than the Dell. So the HP doesn't offer significantly more in that regard.


View attachment 2360596

Well, I didn't resort to name calling.......

Who is talking about M2??? We are on M3? I never compared M2 prices which are heavily discounted now that M3 is out. I can compare a LOT of 13th gen Intel laptops that are highly discounted but I stuck with Ultra to give Apples to apples comparison.

So lets be real. I am being straightforward. I do disagree with you.

If you are comparing M3 MBA or M3 MBP to an Ultra 7 device like Asus 14 Oled Ultra 7 32gb ram and 1 ssd for $1299 still is much cheaper if you consider the specs and cost. Same with the Hp Spectre. There are more coming out as we near summer too. Lenovo has yet to release 7i and 9i with Ultra 7 or 9.

My point is if your compare the newest processor laptops with the same specs from Apple and Windows OEM's most that cost over $800 are giving you 16gb ram standard and once you get over $1000 you get a lot of 32gb options from thin and light to gaming with dedicated gpu or 2 in ones for creatives with dedicated gpu. Comparing the prices for a similar config Mac it makes the HP and other a LOT cheaper than Apple. On current devices.

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[millerj123]

Finally, someone gets it! You speak the truth.

At home I maintain now maintain a mix of Windows 10 and 11. At work, we have a mix of 10, 11 and server. Most are fine, but some just don't want to work correctly. My primary windows 11 box keeps having Windows explorer crash out on a bog-standard install that worked on the other 90% of the other workstations. 2 of us just have issues out of 11 total.

 

[Technerd108]

At home I maintain now maintain a mix of Windows 10 and 11. At work, we have a mix of 10, 11 and server. Most are fine, but some just don't want to work correctly. My primary windows 11 box keeps having Windows explorer crash out on a bog-standard install that worked on the other 90% of the other workstations. 2 of us just have issues out of 11 total.

I don't know the hardware since running Windows 10 I am guessing not super new and nowhere have I mentioned servers. This thread has been focused primarily on home computers and primarily laptops and mobile.

I knew a guy who was limping along his Windows 7 desktop just fine with no crashes or problems. It was just getting slow and he was having incompatibility issues. I helped him get a new desktop and he has not had a single issue and he is now using his desktop wirelessly!

Work environments with networks and work computers are a completely different subject. The success and stability of work environments requires a very proactive IT department and a short refresh cycle. The OS they are running is generally inconsequential as they will lock everything down and generally Windows/Linux is best for remote setup and allocation of many laptops or workstations in a short period of time.

 

[Rodan52]

I think I have a love/hate relationship with computers and computer tech. I've tried all of the big three's offerings and they all have their upsides and downsides. No one platform is without issues so I simply prefer to tackle those issues on the platform I know best. having a Windows laptop, an Android phone and a Mac desktop is a nightmare, beleive me I've tried it. The Apple "walled garden" is much easier to work with for me but I suspect MS and Google are the same.