Bye, Bye for now Apple, it has been fun!

[eltoslightfoot]

I bought a Lenovo P14s recently, amazing price (1K) for an 8 core AMD Ryzen 7 series, 64GB RAM, 1TB SSD, OLED display.

I returned it after two days, even with a fresh windows install and updated drivers, it dropped frames on YouTube and had other various issues.

I sit here typing on my MBP and honestly, nothing else really fits the bill. I manage a Windows (with a few linux servers thrown in) environment and still prefer my Mac. Im glad there are choices, I was a Windows and Android guy for many years, Apple still just suits me better.

That is honestly crazy. I have a Surface Pro 9 with 8GB Ram and an i5. I also have an Acer Predator Helios NEO 4060 with i7-13700HX with 32GB RAM. They both do not drop any frames on Youtube or any other streaming service. How can something with 64GB RAM do so?

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

He was vehemently against 'renting' music and subscription models didn't appeal to him an all.

But even there, the type of music renting that existed in 2003 is very different than what exists now.
His main rationale for not “renting” music was that people like to listen to their favorite music more than once, and they’d have to rent it over and over and over again to do so back in the day. Because that’s how those music renting services worked, they were basically files that expired every 30 days, there was no streaming.
There wasn’t mobile devices that could just simply stream music instantly like there is today.

Now it’s the exact opposite.
As long as you’re subscribed, you can stream and download to your hearts Desire. You can play a song over and over and over again, and it’s not going to vanish if the file expires.
He seemed a lot more receptive to music streaming services in 2010 then he did in 2003.
He definitely would have made the pivot.

 

[Technerd108]

Which means that they aren't going to change anything that us "long timers" are complaining about right now. That's more-or-less what I decided when I switched to all Windows and my iPhone a few weeks ago. I will have to change because Apple is not.

Look, that could mean that in a few months I decide to cave and switch back. Maybe Apple continues and expands user privacy within AI (when they release it), or does more user-focused behaviors and I switch back. But right now it is clear that if you want innovation in the PC sector (especially once Snapdragon X Elite comes out in June) as well as cost-savings, then you might as well get used to Microsoft on your OS.

I don't know all of the reasons for your decision. All I can say is that for me I am happy with my choice. For a few weeks I was debating whether I had done the right thing. In the end I am happier now with everything. Doesn't mean I am not still curious about Mac's and Apple hardware.

The thing is it is like going under a spell and having it broken. While under the spell you don't even realize you are being controlled. Once the spell is broken you can see where you were manipulated. Apple hardware is like magic. So amazing and beautiful. Everything works together instantly and as you get more stuff it works even better. Then one day you get something non apple and you are cursed. The more you use non apple the worse the curse gets until you either go back under the spell and continue with Apple or you break the spell and wake up and don't go back.

That is sort of how I feel. When I used Mac's in the past I never had a phone to go with it. Then in the 2010's I had Android phones. Once I got an iPhone and had a Mac then the spell was cast and I hadn't even realized it.

I know my example is rather dramatic but I honestly feel it is a good analogy. I have never had an experience with tech products and feeling a loss if I don't own a particular brand before. The tech stuff I had mostly worked with each other. I don't even know how to explain it properly. You buy other tech brands and say Samsung, it will work better with other Samsung products but they are not exclusive. So I can use a Pixel phone with a Galaxy tablet or watch just fine, unlike Apple. Since most of the stuff I had owned never had such lock in before it took me by surprise before I realized I WAS LOCKED IN?!

And in my opinion I don't care how great their stuff is until they open up compatibility and make using other brands easier with Apple I can't go back. As simple as that. Their closed off platform is great but we don't live in a vacuum and I like to have freedom to mix and match my tech. If I can't do it, then I may as well not have it.

Just me 2 cents.

 

[rin67630]

and one will get the answer one wants. He did not say, the correct answer.
Which I found odd. If I search for an answer, I will want the correct answers, and not an answer tailor-made for me.

You forget the roughly half of America voting for Trump and the majority of Russians behind Putin (the list can be extended...)
They don't care for a correct answer, they want (and get) answers tailored for them.
I hate having to say that, but it looks to be the way our future will be run...

 

[Regulus67]

edited: I see my comment was not in line. So I removed it

 

[Regulus67]

Once I got an iPhone and had a Mac then the spell was cast and I hadn't even realized it.

I see what you mean by a spell 😆

I bought my iPhone 6s and a bit later, I got an iMac. Since then I haven't considered a PC. As I was surprised how well Apple products work together. And I was also impressed how quiet macs are. Having gone to great lengths with water cooling in the past. And I was always trying to get displays that were larger, and better.
But I had never seen a better display than my first iMac 5k. I can clearly see the difference between SRGB and P3 colour gamut.
And it's all the small things that added to the experience.

 

[Technerd108]

I see what you mean by a spell 😆

I bought my iPhone 6s and a bit later, I got an iMac. Since then I haven't considered a PC. As I was surprised how well Apple products work together. And I was also impressed how quiet macs are. Having gone to great lengths with water cooling in the past. And I was always trying to get displays that were larger, and better.
But I had never seen a better display than my first iMac 5k. I can clearly see the difference between SRGB and P3 colour gamut.
And it's all the small things that added to the experience.

"And it's all the small things that added to the experience."
No doubt, on both sides

I have never said Apple hardware was bad or inferior. Specially the more you pay. I am talking about the experience of trying to use multiple brands(platforms) of devices once you have a Apple ecosystem set up. It is doubly infuriating that you can't use the hardware to it's full advantage unless everything is Apple and you paid for the hardware and should at least have basic functionality between non apple branded devices.

The Apple "experience" all in house is pretty great. There are exceptions that I have already stated within the line driving you up the ladder and of course the infamous upgrade charges for anything over base. Overall though if you are willing to pay at the moment there is nothing else like Apple.

However, if you are willing to try the alternatives you quickly realize there isn't much of a difference overall between platforms and the differences there are make me prefer Windows with the exception of overall polish and I used to love the graphical icons in the settings and the way it was organized and now it looks like a iPhone which I really don't like. And Windows 11 eye candy has gotten a lot better. So I don't feel it is as jarring a switch as before. Android is better to me at the moment than iOS and I prefer Samsung right now. So for me right now this was a great switch with Intel finally having a decent level of efficiency and battery life it also makes the switch less jarring.

And there is no spell on Windows. You can use Linux within Windows or just wipe Windows and use Linux. I can use apple products, Samsung, Google, Motorola and much more and most of the mid range and up devices all communicate well with my Windows/Android ecosystem. I am free to pick and choose what I like most and I don't have compatibility issues like trying to use an Android phone or tablet with Apple products. Windows has more Apple compatibility like itunes or music and AppleTV so I can still stream my Apple content. All of my icloud actually now syncs with ONEDRIVE!! amazing. So as much as I truly admire Apple products and ecosystem living without it is freeing and I don't feel I am making a choice because of fear but because of what works best and costs the least. No spells forcing my hand. Lol

But if you like being under the "spell" then I don't see anything wrong with it, and I am using words tongue and cheek. I am not literally serious, but it is analogous to how a spell works and magic and you can break that down into basic psychology. The spell is just basic human nature and playing to our weaknesses rather than our strengths and Apple didn't used to be like that. Two ways to market in the extreme, one is to make the customer feel that there is something new and exciting they can't live without and the other is fear, such as fear of losing out on a community, tight integration and ecosystem, and compatibility within your own system. Rather, I want to feel empowered and freed by my technology and not a slave to to it as much as I can. The ecosystem should be as open as possible and as inclusive as possible. It would be a win, win in the end, but the exclusivity and incompatibility are a feature and not a bug.

*Of course there are many psychological marketing methods and I just listed two as an illustration only.

 

[rin67630]

The Apple "experience" all in house is pretty great.

That's the aim of the company.
Personally I prefer a better experience across brands.
e.g. just using the file manager to retrieve my pictures from the phone and –believe it or not– music too !

 

[UliBaer]

That's the aim of the company.
Personally I prefer a better experience across brands.
e.g. just using the file manager to retrieve my pictures from the phone and –believe it or not– music too !

For music + pictures i use documents from readdle. I also use that app for playing my music, not $Apples.
For videos not from $Apple i use VLC.

Both apps can easily share files over the local wlan in both directions, a thing $Apple always want to avoid.
Although it would be even better, if $Apple allowed that natively - as other operating systems do anyway...

 

[maflynn]

That is exactly where M/soft and Apple have made a mistake, it is not a huge leap of design to have 2 grades of devices, Enterprise and Consumer, with Enterprise, you have the T chip or whatever it is called, that is controlling security for thumbnail scans, face id, etc, in the consumer this is not as effective...

Except for Apple, many (most?) major computer makers actually have multiple grades of desktop and laptops, i.e., enterprise, and consumer. Apple is chosen to go with the "its a disposable appliance" approach, i.e., no way to actually repair their laptops and desktops - just replace.

With Enterprise, it is what it says on the tin, you have a licence from Apple/Msoft etc that allows system administrators that have been vetted by Apple/Msoft access to the code at a deeper level to control access to devices owned/leased by the enterprise..

Windows has group policies that allows enterprises the manage the level of control and access to features. My company for instance restricts administrator access and the task scheduler (among other restrictions)

This would allow for replacing parts, internally to the enterprise, you send them your faulty laptop, and in a day or 2, it is repaired, parts that need replacing can be "authorized" via the Enterprise licence via a dedicated secure system from Apple/Msoft etc..

Pre-covid, the enterprises I've worked with over the years already had this. The desktops were worked on, and components were replaced as needed. Post-covid, most of us now have laptops, and those have some level of upgradeability/replacement. I understand that for some businesses they opt for something like a MS Surface laptop or tablet and that's completely sealed, but Dell, HP, and Lenovo, they all have enterprise desktops/laptops that do what you're posting - provided I'm understanding your point

 

[Technerd108]

Apple Sued by U.S. Department of Justice, Says Lawsuit is 'Wrong'

The U.S. Department of Justice today announced it has filed an antitrust lawsuit against Apple. The lawsuit alleges that Apple illegally maintains a...

www.macrumors.com

Seems like the government read my original post. LOL

This is very interesting to me and I will follow the outcome.

 

[za9ra22]

Apple Sued by U.S. Department of Justice, Says Lawsuit is 'Wrong'

The U.S. Department of Justice today announced it has filed an antitrust lawsuit against Apple. The lawsuit alleges that Apple illegally maintains a...

www.macrumors.com

Seems like the government read my original post. LOL

This is very interesting to me and I will follow the outcome.

This was long under way before your post but it will be very interesting how it plays out - not to mention how long it takes to do so.

A hard ask for the DoJ on monopolistic grounds since Apple have already pushed back on that in prior suits based on the obvious fact they don't actually have a monopoly, no part of the market is ring fenced in their favor and they have argued previously that their actions in the marketplace are to protect and secure devices and the user data saved on them. As with any law suit though, it depends on the court, the judge, and the circumstances on the day of trial.

 

[Technerd108]

This was long under way before your post but it will be very interesting how it plays out - not to mention how long it takes to do so.

A hard ask for the DoJ on monopolistic grounds since Apple have already pushed back on that in prior suits based on the obvious fact they don't actually have a monopoly, no part of the market is ring fenced in their favor and they have argued previously that their actions in the marketplace are to protect and secure devices and the user data saved on them. As with any law suit though, it depends on the court, the judge, and the circumstances on the day of trial.

It is not in a classic sense a monopoly but since they have such a large market share in the US and are so heavily anti-competitive of the competition I think they are acting as a monopoly in a sense. There is NO reason that the compatibility issues and text issues and the lack of Apple apps in Android have NOTHING to do with SECURITY. Those are anti-competitive measures to keep Apple users locked in and Android users locked out. Seems monopolistic to me even if it isn't the classic definition but I am no lawyer and have no idea about the legal grounds the government is pursuing.

 

[Regulus67]

It is not in a classic sense a monopoly but since they have such a large market share in the US and are so heavily anti-competitive of the competition I think they are acting as a monopoly in a sense.

How is this different from gaming consoles?
And the US is not the whole world

 

[LeeW]

And the US is not the whole world

Oh yes, it is, and the world is flat as well.

 

[za9ra22]

It is not in a classic sense a monopoly but since they have such a large market share in the US and are so heavily anti-competitive of the competition I think they are acting as a monopoly in a sense. There is NO reason that the compatibility issues and text issues and the lack of Apple apps in Android have NOTHING to do with SECURITY. Those are anti-competitive measures to keep Apple users locked in and Android users locked out. Seems monopolistic to me even if it isn't the classic definition but I am no lawyer and have no idea about the legal grounds the government is pursuing.

Not in any way to be dismissive, but these are not arguments that have meaning here - at least not in the context of your point. They're rehearsal of points of view which the DoJ will have to make and convince a court, then several more I suspect. Plus, there's a thread for that here already - which for specific reasons I'm not engaging with either!

 

[turbineseaplane]

How is this different from gaming consoles?

I assume the issue is one of device type and how integral it has become to daily personal and business life

i.e. Consoles have the same issues, but regulators haven't been compelled to care

 

[Technerd108]

How is this different from gaming consoles?
And the US is not the whole world

The DOJ is looking at the US and this is a legal issue for the US and US consumers so it doesn't really have anything to do with the rest of the world since this decision will only have bearing in the USA. Also Apple is an American company and therefore subject to US law. It is certainly possible that a US law imposed on Apple could affect their business practices around the world but this isn't a EU or other world court legal issue.

Gaming consoles are NOT nearly as important as a phone. Phones literally connect us with the world around us and if we don't have a phone work properly or communication is limited between devices it could become a safety issue in emergencies.

 

[Regulus67]

For the users with PCs, and those of us generally interested in tech and programming.
I have started watching a retired Microsoft developer, and am fascinated by his style of presentation, and what he talks about.

https://www.youtube.com/@DavesGarage/videos

I hope you will enjoy the presentations as well

edit: I have you guys to thank for awakening my interest again for things that are outside of the "walled" Apple garden 🤣

 

[Technerd108]

Not in any way to be dismissive, but these are not arguments that have meaning here - at least not in the context of your point. They're rehearsal of points of view which the DoJ will have to make and convince a court, then several more I suspect. Plus, there's a thread for that here already - which for specific reasons I'm not engaging with either!

I don't understand? I never said what I was saying had any legal merits or that I had any idea what the government in doing legally here?

 

[Regulus67]

The DOJ is looking at the US and this is a legal issue for the US and US consumers so it doesn't really have anything to do with the rest of the world since this decision will only have bearing in the USA. Also Apple is an American company and therefore subject to US law. It is certainly possible that a US law imposed on Apple could affect their business practices around the world but this isn't a EU or other world court legal issue.

Gaming consoles are NOT nearly as important as a phone. Phones literally connect us with the world around us and if we don't have a phone work properly or communication is limited between devices it could become a safety issue in emergencies.

You'd be surprised how much US law has impacted us in Europe the past 20 years. Especially in the banking sector.

On the other hand. This is not good for the consumers, I believe. If I consider what financial impact this will have on Apple.
Lawsuits are expensive, and multi-year processes. And in one way or another, a company will pass on cost associated with business on the customers.

Most people I am in contact with have android phones. And that has never been a problem.

 

[za9ra22]

I don't understand? I never said what I was saying had any legal merits or that I had any idea what the government in doing legally here?

No, but this is a specific topic which has potential to end in an NDA. I'd rather not begin an interesting topic which I'd likely end abruptly when I can't go further. It isn't a comment on your thoughts.

 

[Technerd108]

You'd be surprised how much US law has impacted us in Europe the past 20 years. Especially in the banking sector.

On the other hand. This is not good for the consumers, I believe. If I consider what financial impact this will have on Apple.
Lawsuits are expensive, and multi-year processes. And in one way or another, a company will pass on cost associated with business on the customers.

Most people I am in contact with have android phones. And that has never been a problem.

Because in Europe most people don't use iMessage? At least that is my impression from interactions with my friends in othe parts of the world.

In the US iMessage is uses almost exclusively. I understand sms compatibility exists but it doesn't have to be such a bad experience with compressed files and group chats. This can be a big deal, specially with younger users under peer pressure.

As for US law influencing international law, I get it. Works both ways though.

I could care less how much financial impact it has on Apple. They shouldn't be doing what they are doing. Is it breaking the law? Of course not, as any business that can do it, will do it. Apple should have regulations imposed until they open up. They don't have to do that much to make things a more fair playing field. They should be operating in a fair and open manner and all tech companies should be held to the same standard. People don't want proprietary connectors and software. They want to be able to use what they want without Apple or any companies lock out.

Why is USB c a universal standard and not lighting?

It is the same thing applied to software and the hardware we use with it. People want intercomnectivity and freedom to mix and match devices and platforms as they see fit without arbitrary restrictions for the sole purpose of profit.

 

[lcseds]

Wow. This has been like 6 threads in 1. Great read.

 

[Technerd108]

Wow. This has been like 6 threads in 1. Great read.

Well here is something else,

Unpatchable vulnerability in Apple chip leaks secret encryption keys

Fixing newly discovered side channel will likely take a major toll on performance.

arstechnica.com

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