TechNerd108 appreciates Apple's design and technology but dislikes their upselling tactics and ecosystem lock-in. Frustrated with being forced into costly upgrades and compatibility issues, they're switching to Windows and Android for more freedom and better value.
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Bye, Bye for now Apple, it has been fun!
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That said, there are some macrumors users, who are also long time Apple users, like myself, who are absolutely frustrated and think Windows is just fine. So I guess it goes both ways?
Computers are tools to get things done. If other, cheaper hardware allows you to do the things you want to do in a better, more efficient way, go for it.
For me, the overall package of Apple hardware and software makes Apple devices the best choice.
What I don't understand is why you (OP) think Apple should compete with every competitor on price and hardware features chasing after every device sale possible. That isn't how you build a company as profitable as Apple.
Don't like that? Then buy something else and save a lot of wear and tear on your keyboard.
-kp
For me, the overall package of Apple hardware and software makes Apple devices the best choice.
What I don't understand is why you (OP) think Apple should compete with every competitor on price and hardware features chasing after every device sale possible. That isn't how you build a company as profitable as Apple.
Don't like that? Then buy something else and save a lot of wear and tear on your keyboard.
-kp
Hi OP, hello everyone. I’m an Apple user since 2010, and, like many of you, I resonate with many of the criticism shared here towards Apple.
My approach has been different tho. I love using Apple products, so my way to “vote with my wallet” and punish their current tactics is getting second hand / refurb / open box devices.
My current Mac (2014 Mac mini) was bought used, although in pristine conditions, and I just switched the hard drive for an SSD.
My current iPhone, a third gen SE with a powerful A15, again, purchased as an open box literally new.
And, well, my M2 iPad Pro is new, but I sold my previous 2018 iPad Pro for a good price. With the iPad Pro being a device I use a lot, I wanted it to be new but I wouldn’t mind to get an open-box or refurbished one.
My next Mac? I’m still not sure if I’ll buy a used M2 Pro Mac mini (with 32GB of RAM), or if I’ll end up buying new with a discount. But as soon as Apple releases the M3 Mac mini, if the change is barely noticeably, maybe I’ll get an M2 Pro used one, preferably with 32GB of RAM.
The other way I think I’m punishing a Apple, aside from not buying new products, is trying to use them as long as I can. I’ve had an iPhone 8 until few months ago, and I use it for as long as 5 whole years. And with my SE 3 the plan is to make it last at least 5 or 6 more years. Same for the M2 iPad Pro, same for my next Mac. Hopefully I’ll be able to be a happy Apple customer until 2030 without buying new hardware from them.
My approach has been different tho. I love using Apple products, so my way to “vote with my wallet” and punish their current tactics is getting second hand / refurb / open box devices.
My current Mac (2014 Mac mini) was bought used, although in pristine conditions, and I just switched the hard drive for an SSD.
My current iPhone, a third gen SE with a powerful A15, again, purchased as an open box literally new.
And, well, my M2 iPad Pro is new, but I sold my previous 2018 iPad Pro for a good price. With the iPad Pro being a device I use a lot, I wanted it to be new but I wouldn’t mind to get an open-box or refurbished one.
My next Mac? I’m still not sure if I’ll buy a used M2 Pro Mac mini (with 32GB of RAM), or if I’ll end up buying new with a discount. But as soon as Apple releases the M3 Mac mini, if the change is barely noticeably, maybe I’ll get an M2 Pro used one, preferably with 32GB of RAM.
The other way I think I’m punishing a Apple, aside from not buying new products, is trying to use them as long as I can. I’ve had an iPhone 8 until few months ago, and I use it for as long as 5 whole years. And with my SE 3 the plan is to make it last at least 5 or 6 more years. Same for the M2 iPad Pro, same for my next Mac. Hopefully I’ll be able to be a happy Apple customer until 2030 without buying new hardware from them.
The Surface Lineup is impressive. But they come with 8 GB RAM as base. An unforgivable offense based on the logic of this forum, no? And they are expensive ("cost issues"), as expensive as macs. My personal favorite Windows laptop is the Lenovo Thinkpad. Well built, quality machines. Cost as much as a Macbook Pro and support SUCKS compared to Apple, unless used in a corporate environment where its taken care of for you. I don't wade into the pre-owned market so I won't comment on that. You can save money on refurbed and pre-owned macs as well as far as I know.
To your last point:
-AI: what about it? What can I do on windows "AI" wise that I can't do on mac through a browser?
-Gaming: this was always a windows thing, but up until recently PC gaming was mostly a niche market. Still is in a lot of ways. But I'll grant you this.
-Linux compatibility: incredibly niche market. Can still run Linux on Apple Silicon as far as I know. Or use Virtual machines.
Like I said, I consider windows superior to Mac OS. But the overall Apple Experience to me is less headaches as the hardware makes up for it. A computer is just a tool. Use what serves you best. But I think if someone is reading this trying to decide what they want to use for themselves, they need to be clear that "Apple is a ripoff and is so much more expensive than PCs" is a relatively specious argument.
Windows isn’t bad. It’s the switching to android tablet and android watch that made me lol
And this is still the subforum 'Alternatives to Mac hardware' where things like this are discussed. There is no place here for oversimplifications like 'Don't like that? Buy something else'. This is exactly the subforum where a healthy and (preferably unbiased) discussion takes place about 'something else'. If you don't like that, with all due respect, look somewhere else.
I already did about Mac Desktop/workstation. My last Mac Mini was 2009 model, my last MacPro was 2012. I value upgradability of my workstations, don’t see value in Mac Pro. I moved on to alternatives, that let me upgrade my GPU. My latest workstation was maxed out for RAM, but I upgraded my
3090 to 4090 GPU. I can live with Linux/windows on my workstation.I have no alternatives for MBP nor iPad Pro.
Like I said, I buy from who ever offers me something based on my needs. I don’t get all emotional like breaking up in relationship with companies who sell devices.
Please explain to me why that is ironic in a subforum called 'Alternatives to Mac hardware' in answer to someone who posts 'Don't like it, buy something else' (besides of quoting me completely out of context)?
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So I just want to say: Technerd108 Go 4 It! 🔥
I mean, I don't think it's a bad thing. I encourage users to try for themselves different phones/laptops/computers/OS
Maybe it is the best thing you did since the last couple of years or maybe if you try you come back in tears because it is not for you. But at least you tried. Maybe it is an expensive try but that's a well calculated risk! And it doesn't need to be that expensive, if you play it right.
For me personally what works best is for an laptop (I am an network/firewall engineer) the Macbook works best for me.
One time installation and never (ever) had an issue since approximately the year 2000! Sure I buy a new Macbook every once in a while, but the thing always works for me! Never had an issue nor never do I have to be my own sys-admin. The darn thing just works!
Me and Windows that's a whole different story. Not that I am not capable of handling Windows, but in my opinion it's just so bad. So, I know for me personally Windows is a No-Go!
For smartphones, that's another story. Had every iPhone since the first iPhone until the 15 Pro Max! But the last couple of years I'm not feeling it anymore. That's personal. And as for iMessage, I'm from Europe, so nobody cares! A little exaggerated from my side, but iMessage/FaceTime is not a thing over here. Well over here lot's of people use Meta's WhatsApp and that's even worse 😟
I've had my experiences with Samsung. Samsung Note phones, Samsung S21 Ultra, S22 Ultra (very bad in Europe thanks to Exynos), S23 Ultra (kicked ass like there was no tomorrow) and S24 Ultra (is kicking even more ass).
I've tried the Folding Samsung Phones, Fold3, Fold4 and Fold5. For now I'm on the Samsung S24 Ultra.
Quite happy with it. and it works like a breeze. The Folding phones are in my opinion the ones to get, but I always keep coming back to the one with the Ultra Camera's 🤪
Sure I have to adjust some things, when transferring photos for instance I just plug in a cable to my Mac or other little things, but for the most part it works flawlessly for me. That's why I say to people, sometimes you've got to try for yourself. There's nothing wrong with trying for yourself.
So Thechnerd108 I wish you the best and with your experience wherever it may take you and I hope it works out for you.
Peace & B Wild!
You don’t have to respond to them but you do. I don’t disagree with their sentiment.
It is a sub forum yes but it doesn’t shield you from those who will disagree either
This is an interesting idea.
Okay, so let's take an example. I had to replace my PC with a Ryzen 5 5600X and RTX 3060TI - gave it to my daughter. So I looked at various Macs and PCs. Either way I need a PC to game. So there is that. Either way, I can't connect to my work environment due to smart card restrictions that won't work on an ARM based Mac (so all the M1s and beyond won't work).
I find an Acer Predator Helios Neo 16" with an i7-13700HX and RTX 4060 with 16GB RAM and 1TB SSD for $999 and two year warranty included (refurbed from Acer). I live in flyover country in the US - No nearby Apple store anyway. I add 16GB of RAM and 1TB as a second SSD for around $100 (because I can easily add it). So now I have 32GB RAM and 2TB SSDs and 2 year warranty for $1100. The 16 inch 2560x1600 16:10 screen gets to 500 Nits. It is choice.
Now, I can't even get a refurbed M1 Macbook Pro 16" M2 or M3 with 2TB SSD and 32GB RAM. So, a 12 core CPU, 18 core GPU with 36GB RAM and 2TB SSD is $3,499 + the cost of Applecare.
Is that your "relatively specious argument?"
And that works both ways. It doesn't shield others from me replying either 😂. You don't have to respond to me too and yet there you are. That is how a forum works. Nothing ironic about that. But I will leave it there, because this is getting off topic/bickering. Have a nice evening.
Agreed. The very first computer I remember using was the Apple IIE. I was a Windows user for most of the 90's and came back to Apple with the 2007 MBP and have stayed with Apple ever since.
That is slowly changing. Their hardware has gone down (asinine thinness, unnecessary notches, lack of proper ports, ram, ****** keyboards, useless things like touchbars) and their software is even worse. You used to be able to say that Apple gear/software was best-in-class. Not anymore.
Now it's just about profit margins, virtue signaling & making sure the DEI checklist is marked. Tim Cook has been an abject failure as CEO. He took a once great company and turned it into just another soulless corporate entity.
Sad.
I mean, I guess. Then I got curious, and unsurprisingly, Apple computers have always been more expensive than comparable Windows machine. Hell, comparing Apples to Apples, and when adjusted for inflation, Apple machines are generally cheaper now compared to previous generations.
That said, I see more in the value of longevity. My wife dropped a pretty penny on her 2014 15" MBP and she still uses it as her daily computer as she goes to med school. I have a 2020 HP laying around as a game emulator, even with the same amount of RAM and both having SSDs, her MBP is more responsive in Windows than the Dell. And the Dell was considerably cheaper.
This is still the best argument for Windows laptops. In December 2021 I bought a Dell XPS 9510 and I was able to buy the base 8/256 because I too can upgrade the RAM and add a second SSD when the time comes, and it will be significantly cheaper than what Apple charges for time-of-purchase upgrades.
Note: Windows 11 has been rock solid for me. It's getting a bit bloated and naggy now (especially Edge; might have to switch away from that soon) but other than Microsoft's refusal to let the redundant Control Panel ease into retirement I've yet to find much wrong with it, honestly. And my XPS came out of the box flawless and has remained so.
Run Win11Debloat and switch to Firefox (or Chrome if you don't mind Google), and you will be happy for more years to come!
I'll have to give Win11Debloat a try. Thanks!
I think the post you are reacting to was in the context of Apple's additional charges for RAM and SSD upgrades, which are, according to a lot of people on this forum, disproportional. In my opinion the average price of an Apple computer (excluding the extra RAM and SSD prices) is proportional to the build quality. Also in the Windows/PC world a computer with comparable quality to Apple will cost around the same.
Some Windows laptops have nice OLED screens. I like those. But have never used one. I still say $400 for an extra 8GB and 256GB is INSANE. I commend Apple on their near flawless pricing model (perfect for max profit) But I hate paying the inflated prices.
A brilliant and important point. And while here I respond, it's not an obligation, just as you're not compelled to reply to this comment. It's a choice we both make. And just as you've chosen to respond, I could choose not to continue this back-and-forth. In essence, our interaction is a series of decisions, each leading to the next, but none being strictly necessary.
Like the following example I used earlier:
I find an Acer Predator Helios Neo 16" with an i7-13700HX and RTX 4060 with 16GB RAM and 1TB SSD for $999 and two year warranty included (refurbed from Acer). I live in flyover country in the US - No nearby Apple store anyway. I add 16GB of RAM and 1TB as a second SSD for around $100 (because I can easily add it). So now I have 32GB RAM and 2TB SSDs and 2 year warranty for $1100. The 16 inch 2560x1600 16:10 screen gets to 500 Nits. It is choice.
Now, I can't even get a refurbed M1 Macbook Pro 16" M2 or M3 with 2TB SSD and 32GB RAM. So, a 12 core CPU, 18 core GPU with 36GB RAM and 2TB SSD is $3,499 + the cost of Applecare.
Yes that is $1100 vs $3500 + Applecare.
Apple pricing is fine until you add $45 worth of ram and storage. In which case it’s subsequently thousands of dollars overpriced.