Caldigit TS4 Dock

[djbuddha]

It don't look like they've replaced a TB port, it looks like they've added one to the TS4.

They removed optical out. I don’t think many people use it. I’ve used it and found it was slightly distorted when routing it back to my Apollo which was hooked up to another machine.

I want this dock for that dual Thunderbolt connection. Imagine, plugging in my Apollo X4 AND being able to Thunderbolt network my Macs with this thing. This is quite awesome. I have a TS3+ which is nice, but I’ve had some quality control issues with it- hopefully those are ironed out this round.

 

[playtech1]

2.5 GbE is a little strange.

I bet the Realtek 2.5Gb chip is about the same cost as an Intel 1Gb so it's a case of 'why not'. I don't think there's a budget 5Gb or 10Gb option - plus I think those speeds produce quite a bit more heat.

 

[dstyp]

Well I know the M1 Pro/Max can do that. But they don't do it with a single Thunderbolt port.

What do you mean? The M1 Pro/Max would require you to connect to two ports or what exactly are you theorizing? The hub only has one full speed port to connect to your computer so I'm not sure I'm following. It says clearly in the data sheet in my post that it's supported on those machines. I don't think it would not make sense for Caldigit to market it like this otherwise. I'd for sure be expecting that functionality buying this product based off of that data sheet.

 

[carestudio]

Does it say that it can? Pretty sure it won't otherwise. It will handle dual 4K displays, or (1) 5k - 8K display, like most TB4 hubs.

I have caldigit elememt hub with my M1 max, been working really great. According to caldigit's site, their element hub can do dual 6x Apple displays. I believe their new TS4 should do the same thing. Probably the only dock and hub on the market that can handle dual 6K.

CalDigit Docks and Apple M1, M2, M3 Pro/Max & M1/M2 Ultra Compatibility – CalDigit

www.caldigit.com

 

[macphoto861]

I bet the Realtek 2.5Gb chip is about the same cost as an Intel 1Gb so it's a case of 'why not'. I don't think there's a budget 5Gb or 10Gb option - plus I think those speeds produce quite a bit more heat.

Oh no, I hope it's not a Realtek... one of my motivations for upgrading from my current USB-C dock is to get back to full gigabit ethernet speed (apparently Realtek doesn't have a driver that works on newer Macs, so it defaults to some kind of generic driver that doesn't perform well, while the Intel does have a proper driver and performs at full speed).

 

[killawat]

I bet the Realtek 2.5Gb chip is about the same cost as an Intel 1Gb so it's a case of 'why not'. I don't think there's a budget 5Gb or 10Gb option - plus I think those speeds produce quite a bit more heat.

I agree the price was probably the same. Though the Aquantia 10Gb chip would have been a fantastic option, used natively in Mac mini and Mac Pro offerings. But I suspect there are heat, bandwidth and cost constraints. Unless someone wants a $500 dock!!

 

[mango316]

Nice! Bit of an upgrade across the board but maybe not an instant buy if you've got the TS3+.

More than 98W would've been nice, not sure what the limit is. Great to get more usb-c form factor ports. HDMI 2.1 would've been a nice and probably much requested addition as well.

I'd call this TS3.5+

edit: seems like 100W is the max possible actually so not half bad ? 240W revision of usbc was just announced for production it seems so maybe in TS5

Where did you get the info about the 240w in production? I looked but couldn’t find much info about that one. I’d rather wait for that version instead.

 

[appleArticulate]

What do you mean? The M1 Pro/Max would require you to connect to two ports or what exactly are you theorizing? The hub only has one full speed port to connect to your computer so I'm not sure I'm following. It says clearly in the data sheet in my post that it's supported on those machines. I don't think it would not make sense for Caldigit to market it like this otherwise. I'd for sure be expecting that functionality buying this product based off of that data sheet.

It wouldn't be the first time I've seen something like this confused.

I don't think the M1 Pro/Max suddenly becomes capable of running dual 6K off a single port just because the hub is involved. I could be wrong though. I'd definitely be concerned about performance at the very least, even though it is TB4.

I run (2) 4K displays @60 off the M1 Pro TB4 port through a Caldigit Element Hub, and that one very clearly advertises this behavior, as well as support for one 5k, 6k, or 8k display. So does every other Thunderbolt 4 hub I've seen. The linked graphic reads more like what the machines are capable of as opposed to what the hub is capable of. I could be wrong, but its the first I've seen of something like this, and it doesn't really explain why its unavailable elsewhere.

 

[dstyp]

Where did you get the info about the 240w in production? I looked but couldn’t find much info about that one. I’d rather wait for that version instead.

I meant in general. Just saw an article the other day about 240W being announced production ready in the latest usb-c standard update (2.1 iirc). Nothing to do with Caldigit and no TS5 announced, just a tounge in cheeck comment . Sorry for being unclear! By the way, a hub supporting this would also require a thunderbolt update as tb4 is up to 100W I recently learned.

It wouldn't be the first time I've seen something like this confused.

I don't think the M1 Pro/Max suddenly becomes capable of running dual 6K off a single port just because the hub is involved. I could be wrong though. I'd definitely be concerned about performance at the very least, even though it is TB4.

I run (2) 4K displays @60 off the M1 Pro TB4 port through a Caldigit Element Hub, and that one very clearly advertises this behavior, as well as support for one 5k, 6k, or 8k display. So does every other Thunderbolt 4 hub I've seen. The linked graphic reads more like what the machines are capable of as opposed to what the hub is capable of. I could be wrong, but its the first I've seen of something like this, and it doesn't really explain why its unavailable elsewhere.

Hehe I'd be super disappointed if I had to connect two cables and occupy two ports on my laptop to be able to do this when buying a hub with this spec. Hope it's not the case. Should be easy to ask Caldigit.

 

[appleArticulate]

Hehe I'd be super disappointed if I had to connect two cables and occupy two ports on my laptop to be able to do this when buying a hub with this spec. Hope it's not the case. Should be easy to ask Caldigit.

I really don't know. What I do know is that I've researched several TB4 hubs before purchasing and they all have the same specs and max capabilities (as cited above), including the leading one from Caldigit.

It would surprise me to find any that magically increase (dramatically increase) the ability of the single port, considering the hubs themselves aren't really capable of doing that.

 

[JtheLemur]

Satechi TB4 one is $100 cheaper and doesn’t give up much in terms of ports. Worth checking out.

 

[WilliamG]

I meant in general. Just saw an article the other day about 240W being announced production ready in the latest usb-c standard update (2.1 iirc). Nothing to do with Caldigit and no TS5 announced, just a tounge in cheeck comment . Sorry for being unclear! By the way, a hub supporting this would also require a thunderbolt update as tb4 is up to 100W I recently learned.



Hehe I'd be super disappointed if I had to connect two cables and occupy two ports on my laptop to be able to do this when buying a hub with this spec. Hope it's not the case. Should be easy to ask Caldigit.

With the TS3+ I have to use 2 ports to get 5K + 2.5K displays working. My 5K goes through the TS3+ and the 2.5K goes via USB-C to DisplayPort. I’d hope TS4+ solves this issue.

 

[joevt]

Well I know the M1 Pro/Max can do that. But they don't do it with a single Thunderbolt port.

6K with DSC only requires HBR2 link rate. Two of those can fit in a single Thunderbolt connection.
If Apple is forcing dual HBR3 mode instead of single HBR2 with DSC, then it means there's not enough bandwidth to write to the XDR's USB at more than 1 Gbps.

It don't look like they've replaced a TB port, it looks like they've added one to the TS4. DisplayPort was also on the TS3+ (and TS3 lite for that matter).

Sure, compared to a Thunderbolt 3 dock which has only 1 downstream Thunderbolt port, the TS4 with two downstream Thunderbolt ports is an upgrade. But a Thunderbolt 4 dock can have 3 downstream Thunderbolt ports.

Looks like a great hub. 2.5 GbE is a little strange. I suspect this is due to bandwidth constraints. mGIG switches are still unreasonably expensive for some reason (compared to straight 10 Gbit hubs). 1 GbE would be cheaper and mGIG users can easily find USB-C and Thunderbolt based solutions.

What bandwidth constraint? USB goes up to 10 Gbps.

What I've read about TB3 PCs is they work with TB4 docks but they can't take advantage of the TB hub ports. So you get 1 downstream port in earlier TB3, this one has 2 downstream ports that TB4 hosts or TB3 Macs can use, so basically the other ports work but you can't plug 2 TB devices in at once, only one. Apparently Macs with TB3 can use TB hub though, so it's a bit confusing.

I think this is because macOS uses a Thunderbolt software connection manager. PC's rely on the internal connection manager (ICM) in the firmware of their Thunderbolt controllers.
Linux has added support for software connection manager. Maybe it allows Thunderbolt 3 PC's to use Thunderbolt 4 docks?

One difference between the Alpine Ridge based TS3+ dock and Thunderbolt 4 docks is that the TS3+ has four USB controllers and a PCIe Ethernet controller so it can use all the bandwidth of Thunderbolt (≈22 Gbps) by itself (but two of the USB controllers are 4 Gbps, one is 8 Gbps, and only the Thunderbolt USB controller is 10 Gbps).

Thunderbolt 4 docks are usually just USB hubs so it can only use 10 Gbps by itself (but at least all the USB ports support 10 Gbps). The Goshen Ridge Thunderbolt controller has the option of connecting 1 PCIe device (8 Gbps) but I haven't seen it get used before. You have to connect non-USB things (displays or Thunderbolt devices) to use more than 10Gbps of bandwidth.
Maybe the TS4 uses a PCIe 2.5 GbE Ethernet controller but probably it's just a USB adapter.

 

[joevt]

I have caldigit elememt hub with my M1 max, been working really great. According to caldigit's site, their element hub can do dual 6x Apple displays. I believe their new TS4 should do the same thing. Probably the only dock and hub on the market that can handle dual 6K.

CalDigit Docks and Apple M1, M2, M3 Pro/Max & M1/M2 Ultra Compatibility – CalDigit

www.caldigit.com

All Thunderbolt 4 docks/hubs use the same Goshen Ridge chip so they all have the same capabilities.

With the TS3+ I have to use 2 ports to get 5K + 2.5K displays working. My 5K goes through the TS3+ and the 2.5K goes via USB-C to DisplayPort. I’d hope TS4+ solves this issue.

Your 5K display is a dual link SST display (LG UltraFine 5K or Dell UP2715K or similar) which uses two DisplayPort 1.2 connections to get 5K so of course you can connect only one of those to a single Thunderbolt port with no other displays.
They do not have a single link SST mode, except for 4K.

The XDR display has a dual link SST mode (two HBR3 connections over Thunderbolt) and a single link SST mode (one HBR2 connection). If it's not using dual link SST mode then you should be able to connect two of them to a Thunderbolt port.
The single link SST mode can do 6K60 if it's using DSC otherwise it would be limited to 4K60. One thing strange about the XDR is that it doesn't appear to have a single link SST mode using HBR3 (to do something like 5K60 8bpc).

 

[carestudio]

Maybe the TS4 uses a PCIe 2.5 GbE Ethernet controller but probably it's just a USB adapter.

does PCIe 2.5G provide better performance or USB's adapter?

 

[joevt]

does PCIe 2.5G provide better performance or USB's adapter?

I think a PCIe Ethernet controller is always preferable but I don't have benchmarks to confirm.

In the case of a Thunderbolt 4 dock connected to an M1 Mac where USB is tunnelled, PCIe would use a different stream of communication than USB: 10 Gbps for tunnelled USB + 2.5 Gbps for tunnelled PCIe to/from the Ethernet controller = 12.5 Gbps max total.

When connect to an Intel Mac or if there's a Thunderbolt 3 dock between the M1 Mac and the Thunderbolt 4 dock then USB is not tunnelled - USB is done using tunnelled PCIe to/from the USB controller in the Thunderbolt 4 dock. The PCIe total bandwidth has a limit of 22 Gbps which is more than enough: 10 Gbps for tunnelled PCIe to/from the USB controller + 2.5 Gbps for tunnelled PCIe to/from the Ethernet controller = 12.5 Gbps max total.

A USB Ethernet controller would share the 10 Gbps tunnelled USB or 10 Gbps PCIe to the USB controller for not-tunnelled USB = 10 Gbps max total.

 

[PPOP]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1490736050917892103

 

[ikir]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1490736050917892103

Exactly, it is coming today I suppose! I will buy it!

 

[playtech1]

Oh no, I hope it's not a Realtek... one of my motivations for upgrading from my current USB-C dock is to get back to full gigabit ethernet speed (apparently Realtek doesn't have a driver that works on newer Macs, so it defaults to some kind of generic driver that doesn't perform well, while the Intel does have a proper driver and performs at full speed).

I did some digging and the current model is a Realtek, so I would put folding money on the new one having a Realtek 8125B doing duty here.

I don't actually have a massive problem with that as I have been fine with the current dock's Gigabit Realtek Ethernet and have an 8125B PCIe card in my PC and that's been fine too, although clearly YMMV.

 

[macphoto861]

I did some digging and the current model is a Realtek, so I would put folding money on the new one having a Realtek 8125B doing duty here.

I don't actually have a massive problem with that as I have been fine with the current dock's Gigabit Realtek Ethernet and have an 8125B PCIe card in my PC and that's been fine too, although clearly YMMV.

Thanks, I guess the Realtek aspect alone isn't what causes the performance problem with the other docks, it's the fact that it's a USB-connected Realtek (without an optimized driver?), as opposed to the TS3+ having it PCIe-connected?

 

[pke]

It is now available to order through CalDigit store ?

 

[dstyp]

Saw this comment on Youtube by the Caldigit account re ethernet speeds.

"10gb Ethernet generates an incredible amount of heat. Have you seen the size of our Connect 10G? The heatsink has to be pretty big to offset the heat enough to implement a passive cooling design. Plus, from a data perspective, it would take up a quarter of the entire data bandwidth under full load. Dual video is already capable of taking half the bandwidth, so it's just not really feasible at this point. You can always use a Connect 10G downstream with one of the additional TB4 ports!"

 

[playtech1]

Looking at the product page I realised that all USB ports are now 10Gb/s. That's a pretty nice upgrade - previously both front USB ports and most of the rear ones were 5Gb/s.

You can also use both memory card readers at the same time - handy for copying between the two.

Only downside I have seen - the front and rear audio IO cannot be used simultaneously. That's a shame, as I could see that being quite handy - fixed speakers at the back and a headset in the front.

 

[Tomb01]

TS4 now the entry page on caldigit.com... https://www.caldigit.com/

 

[ikir]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1491053640211046401