iPad Pro Can we finally say an iPad can replace a laptop/MacBook?

[oldmacs]

There are so many moments that are so close yet so far away with the iPad. In early betas of iOS 13, you could download full folders in files from iCloud Drive (a lot of my research work is done with pages and pages of scans which are painfully annoying to have to download each time) - yet for whatever stupid reason they removed that. Why can't I choose to download a whole folder in iCloud drive or have an 'optimise storage' option like on MacOS.

I still find text editing annoying on the iPad. On Pages for Mac taking notes is so easy as you can switch between paragraph styles with ease (its a trackpad movement away), on the iPad there are multiple taps.

 

[AutomaticApple]

I still find text editing annoying on the iPad. On Pages for Mac taking notes is so easy as you can switch between paragraph styles with ease (its a trackpad movement away), on the iPad there are multiple taps.

Yeah, I hope that hiccup is fixed in iPadOS 14.

 

[OldCorpse]

As always it's all about what you use it for. Almost nobody uses any device to its full capacity in every single way it can be used. Some need strong video editing capability, but not heavy word processing etc. - nobody needs heavy "everything". So, for me, I need a certain amount of word processing - and I want something ultra portable, and for that the tablet works... although a macbook air would work too. The problem for me, is that still in late 2019, the iPadOS word processing apps that I need are a poor cousin to their macOS equivalents. For example, I need a screenwriting app, and I need a long-form writing app - and there simply isn't a good iOS one compared to macOS of either - the Final Draft app on iOS is pitiful compared to macOS, and I have tried several others, all very poor. You'd think that such a basic application as word processing would be well covered on the tablet, but no. Maybe one day it'll get better, but the apps today are extremely poor. I like the form factor, but it's held up by very bad apps, at least for what I need it for. So, to me, a macOS macbook air is much superior just because of the apps - although I much prefer the tablet form factor of a tablet.

 

[Amplelink]

As always it's all about what you use it for. Almost nobody uses any device to its full capacity in every single way it can be used. Some need strong video editing capability, but not heavy word processing etc. - nobody needs heavy "everything". So, for me, I need a certain amount of word processing - and I want something ultra portable, and for that the tablet works... although a macbook air would work too. The problem for me, is that still in late 2019, the iPadOS word processing apps that I need are a poor cousin to their macOS equivalents. For example, I need a screenwriting app, and I need a long-form writing app - and there simply isn't a good iOS one compared to macOS of either - the Final Draft app on iOS is pitiful compared to macOS, and I have tried several others, all very poor. You'd think that such a basic application as word processing would be well covered on the tablet, but no. Maybe one day it'll get better, but the apps today are extremely poor. I like the form factor, but it's held up by very bad apps, at least for what I need it for. So, to me, a macOS macbook air is much superior just because of the apps - although I much prefer the tablet form factor of a tablet.

Apple is working on making apps universal across iOS and Mac. That’ll go a very long way towards addressing your issues.

 

[subjonas]

Apple is working on making apps universal across iOS and Mac. That’ll go a very long way towards addressing your issues.

Are you referring to Catalyst? That only brings iPad apps to Mac, not Mac applications to iPad (so Macs will be able to do more but iPads will stay the same). I don’t see application feature parity really happening until developers have enough financial motivation—i.e. they can sell iPad apps to enough people with enough profit. But there are several large hurdles in the way of that.

 

[OldCorpse]

OK, I'll admit, I don't know anything about the economics of app development - I thought that there was a bigger market in iOS/iPadOS compared to macOS - or at least it seems everything is going more mobile, so the future is not on the desktop. At least from what I can see, the younger the generation, the more mobile oriented they are. Many don't even have desktops and live exclusively on their phones.

So, could you please explain what you mean when you write:

I don’t see application feature parity really happening until developers have enough financial motivation—i.e. they can sell iPad apps to enough people with enough profit. But there are several large hurdles in the way of that.

What are the hurdles? Isn't mobile where the money is in app development? Honestly, I'm puzzled by this whole thing - there are tons of useless apps, but when it comes to key functionality apps, such as word processing, there really are not that many options, and they're all pretty poor. Now there are exceptions, like some drawing apps and a few others, but most productivity apps seem subpar to me, and the spectrum of choices very poor. BWDIK.

 

[rui no onna]

OK, I'll admit, I don't know anything about the economics of app development - I thought that there was a bigger market in iOS/iPadOS compared to macOS - or at least it seems everything is going more mobile, so the future is not on the desktop. At least from what I can see, the younger the generation, the more mobile oriented they are. Many don't even have desktops and live exclusively on their phones.

So, could you please explain what you mean when you write:

I don’t see application feature parity really happening until developers have enough financial motivation—i.e. they can sell iPad apps to enough people with enough profit. But there are several large hurdles in the way of that.

What are the hurdles? Isn't mobile where the money is in app development? Honestly, I'm puzzled by this whole thing - there are tons of useless apps, but when it comes to key functionality apps, such as word processing, there really are not that many options, and they're all pretty poor. Now there are exceptions, like some drawing apps and a few others, but most productivity apps seem subpar to me, and the spectrum of choices very poor. BWDIK.

Most of these crappy mobile apps are ad-supported.

How large of a market is there for $200+ mobile apps? Sure, younger generations are practically married to mobile devices. That said, it seems a lot of them already balk at paying $0.99-4.99 for an app, nevermind $10 or more.

Microsoft and Adobe have moved to a subscription model and that seems to work for them but they're established outfits already.

 

[sparksd]

OK, I'll admit, I don't know anything about the economics of app development - I thought that there was a bigger market in iOS/iPadOS compared to macOS - or at least it seems everything is going more mobile, so the future is not on the desktop. At least from what I can see, the younger the generation, the more mobile oriented they are. Many don't even have desktops and live exclusively on their phones.

So, could you please explain what you mean when you write:

I don’t see application feature parity really happening until developers have enough financial motivation—i.e. they can sell iPad apps to enough people with enough profit. But there are several large hurdles in the way of that.

What are the hurdles? Isn't mobile where the money is in app development? Honestly, I'm puzzled by this whole thing - there are tons of useless apps, but when it comes to key functionality apps, such as word processing, there really are not that many options, and they're all pretty poor. Now there are exceptions, like some drawing apps and a few others, but most productivity apps seem subpar to me, and the spectrum of choices very poor. BWDIK.

It may be that for mainstream productivity apps the business/corporate market with its primarily desktop/laptop environment (generally Windows) is more lucrative than the consumer market.

 

[spudWorks]

What are the hurdles? Isn't mobile where the money is in app development? Honestly, I'm puzzled by this whole thing - there are tons of useless apps, but when it comes to key functionality apps, such as word processing, there really are not that many options, and they're all pretty poor. Now there are exceptions, like some drawing apps and a few others, but most productivity apps seem subpar to me, and the spectrum of choices very poor. BWDIK.

I'm an app developer and 90% of the apps I've developed have been on contract and 100% of those have all been free. The strategy is either to have them support and extend an existing brand or experience with something mobile specific or to be ad supported. None of them have ever had a purchase price because, for a non-game (and even for a lot of games) that's the surest way to have no one download your app.

But, because I'm a developer, and know intimately what software costs, I've personally purchased around $300 worth of premium apps. I do this because they do specific things I need (like work as a micro-IDE, Git client, SSH client) and those markets are already tiny and I want to do what I can to ensure the developer is motivated to keep supporting them. But, even if there were a lot more people like me out there, it's tough to imagine an indie developer adding every feature every user could want unless they were in the top 5 selling apps of their category or it was a real labor of love.

What's surprising, in terms of feature parity is how big companies like MS or Adobe seem to care so little about it since they are on the subscription model and their goal is to be the go to for their categories on whatever platform.

Why doesn't Word or Excel, say, have more export options? These aren't dumb companies, so I imagine some of it has to do with use metrics. But then, is that a chicken-egg thing? People don't do it because they can't do it? Or can people not do it because the companies haven't seen interest in being able to do it? I don't know the answer, obviously, but I'd pay real money to see the MS Word or Excel use metrics, especially every time people bring up that they think the iPad isn't a "real computer" because they can't run the 15 year old spreadsheet they built with 100 VB scripts and 15 levels of auto format. Given that MS was a launch partner for the 1st Gen iPad Pro, I have to figure they know something about how their software is being used that has stopped them from prioritizing that kind of thing. But I don't know.

 

[DNichter]

It always could, just depended on the individual and the task. I’m to the point where I consider iPad Pro a big improvement over a traditional pc.

 

[OldCorpse]

None of them have ever had a purchase price because, for a non-game (and even for a lot of games) that's the surest way to have no one download your app.

I guess since you're a developer, I have no choice but to take your word for it. But I find it very hard to swallow. I have spent a lot on apps for my iPad/iPhone. I wouldn't bat an eye if I had to pay $50 or even $100 for a good screenwriting app, or word processing app. Trouble is, that what's available is so poor at any price. Now, where I could see a problem is that the surest way for me not to download an app is if any form of subscription is involved. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a developer going subscription, it's just not for me - I hate, hate, hate the feeling/knowledge that there's a "bill due" somewhere out there; in my life, in every way I can, I try to lower my overhead, cost of living etc. - which means never taking on payment obligations if I can possibly avoid it (some, like f.ex. insurance, you can't). It's not 100% rational, I admit, because I'm more than happy to pay what in effect might be the price of a subscription if it's a one-time thing - so I'll pay a one time $100 happily but not $5 a month. If a new version comes out, and I feel I need it, I'll buy again for $100 (or, say $80). I look at it like buying a hat - I buy it once and when it's worn out, I'll buy again, but I'll never rent a hat.

But hey, there are plenty of people who are happy to pay subscriptions, so I don't know if folks like me, enemies of subscription matter much.

I'm just surprised there to hear that the number of people who would buy an app is as small as you claim. Because I don't see it - the few friends with whom I discuss these things (we all use iPads), are all happy to pay, and I even know one guy who doesn't mind subscriptions. Maybe I live in a bubble, but I'm happy to pay - only unhappy that there's not much worth paying for. YMMV.

 

[fireboy60013]

Actually I prefer pages over Microsoft word. Even when I mainly used my laptop, I preferred pages over word. I much prefer pages on the iPad, however word seems to work better on my iPad than it ever did on my laptop.

 

[spudWorks]

It's not 100% rational, I admit, because I'm more than happy to pay what in effect might be the price of a subscription if it's a one-time thing - so I'll pay a one time $100 happily but not $5 a month. If a new version comes out, and I feel I need it, I'll buy again for $100 (or, say $80). I look at it like buying a hat - I buy it once and when it's worn out, I'll buy again, but I'll never rent a hat.

My thoughts are exactly the same as yours. And I've done exactly that. I don't do subscriptions either unless they're for, like, Office where my subscription covers both my Mac and iPad versions (and there's not a one time purchase cost available any more).

I've bought Working Copy, Textastic, Prompt, Scrivener, Nebo MyScript... all of which I've been more than happy to pay the full cost of but would think twice against buying if I had to pay a monthly subscription...

I'm just surprised there to hear that the number of people who would buy an app is as small as you claim. Because I don't see it - the few friends with whom I discuss these things (we all use iPads), are all happy to pay, and I even know one guy who doesn't mind subscriptions. Maybe I live in a bubble, but I'm happy to pay - only unhappy that there's not much worth paying for. YMMV.

Yeah... it just turns out the number of people who think the way we do are vanishingly small in the scheme of things.

Think about an app like Working Copy, a git client. There are billions of iOS users but the number of developers who use git are probably 1% of them. Still a lot. But then what percentage of them want to try to use git on an iOS device given the other development limitations? Then, how many of them are willing to pay? It's a funnel that just gets smaller and smaller and Working Copy is, I believe, the most popular iOS git client out there and the price is very reasonable. I don't have numbers for it but I'd bet the total market is maybe 100,000 users.

For that app, I'm totally speculating on the numbers. But I know the problem with premium paid apps is that the market narrows quickly by use case and even quicker if it's paid versus free.

 

[revmacian]

I remember plugging an SD card reader into my iPad Air 3, and then plugging an SDXC card into that reader. I found that I was not able to change the name of the external storage, which was "Untitled", and someone told me I needed a Mac in order to do that. It is my opinion that an iPad will never replace a desktop machine until we at least get proper file system access on the iPad.

 

[Cheffy Dave]

Not anymore than any previous release of iOS.

This isn't a binary hard line. There is no universally acceptable definition of what requires a laptop and what can be done with a tablet.

They're two different form-factors with different strengths and weaknesses. The priorities of these strengths and weaknesses are very unique and personal to the individual person.

SRacer, my Friend, I agree, but for me, it’s closer than that. I use Check Book Pro, and it’s OSX Only, not IOS, that alone tethers me to my MBA, after years of lies,”we are working on a version for IOS”, I cannot find a product for IOS, that is as good as “Check Book Pro “ At 71, I no longer care. I use my 12” iPAD PRO for everything, I literally LOVE IT. A perfect second screen for College Football ,and Basketball, with two 9” iPads at ready for March Madness.(if Apple were to release a 16” I Pad PRO, I’d Take 4, thank you,HINT, HINT!). I stream movies on the iPad in stunning resolution, AMOLED, BRING IT ON! I get that it is not a cup of tea for everyone, For ME IT IS! HOLIDAY BLESSINGS TO YOU AND EVERYONE at this time of year!

 

[alien3dx]

I'm an app developer and 90% of the apps I've developed have been on contract and 100% of those have all been free. The strategy is either to have them support and extend an existing brand or experience with something mobile specific or to be ad supported. None of them have ever had a purchase price because, for a non-game (and even for a lot of games) that's the surest way to have no one download your app.

But, because I'm a developer, and know intimately what software costs, I've personally purchased around $300 worth of premium apps. I do this because they do specific things I need (like work as a micro-IDE, Git client, SSH client) and those markets are already tiny and I want to do what I can to ensure the developer is motivated to keep supporting them. But, even if there were a lot more people like me out there, it's tough to imagine an indie developer adding every feature every user could want unless they were in the top 5 selling apps of their category or it was a real labor of love.

What's surprising, in terms of feature parity is how big companies like MS or Adobe seem to care so little about it since they are on the subscription model and their goal is to be the go to for their categories on whatever platform.

Why doesn't Word or Excel, say, have more export options? These aren't dumb companies, so I imagine some of it has to do with use metrics. But then, is that a chicken-egg thing? People don't do it because they can't do it? Or can people not do it because the companies haven't seen interest in being able to do it? I don't know the answer, obviously, but I'd pay real money to see the MS Word or Excel use metrics, especially every time people bring up that they think the iPad isn't a "real computer" because they can't run the 15 year old spreadsheet they built with 100 VB scripts and 15 levels of auto format. Given that MS was a launch partner for the 1st Gen iPad Pro, I have to figure they know something about how their software is being used that has stopped them from prioritizing that kind of thing. But I don't know.

as developer i try to use it potential as possible

1. I don't see how to view source code html in the browser except typing view-source://
2. If got good visual studio code or any good editor which can git/ssh edit on time.. I don't need superb auto complete like jetbrain does but if existed if would be great help
3. Is there any wireframe software which easily i create layout for apps..
** draw.io just for business rule seem nice and free..

** other tip welcome here.

** is not i don't want to buy macbook pro , but i have imac and my friend said don't buy it.

 

[spudWorks]

as developer i try to use it potential as possible

1. I don't see how to view source code html in the browser except typing view-source://
2. If got good visual studio code or any good editor which can git/ssh edit on time.. I don't need superb auto complete like jetbrain does but if existed if would be great help
3. Is there any wireframe software which easily i create layout for apps..
** draw.io just for business rule seem nice and free..

** other tip welcome here.

** is not i don't want to buy macbook pro , but i have imac and my friend said don't buy it.

i can't help you with the last one but if you want a good way to view source, download Texastic, firstly. Then, you can use this Shortcut/Workflow to view the source of any web page.

Then you can use the built in code completions or add your own for whatever language you'd like as documented here.

It's not the same as a full IDE on a Mac but it's not bad either...

 

[riptidewahoo]

It always could, just depended on the individual and the task. I’m to the point where I consider iPad Pro a big improvement over a traditional pc.

How is it a big improvement?

 

[Ludatyk]

How is it a big improvement?

I think @DNichter referring to iPadOS instead of iPad Pro itself. Although, 2018 iPad Pro hardware is crazy good... iPadOS is what takes it to the next level.

 

[secretk]

None of them have ever had a purchase price because, for a non-game (and even for a lot of games) that's the surest way to have no one download your app.

I guess since you're a developer, I have no choice but to take your word for it. But I find it very hard to swallow. I have spent a lot on apps for my iPad/iPhone. I wouldn't bat an eye if I had to pay $50 or even $100 for a good screenwriting app, or word processing app. Trouble is, that what's available is so poor at any price.

One of the issues I have and it most probably is my bad luck is that sometimes I stumble upon on apps that do not have trial periods. As a result I have to either pay or not use it. That for me is not a working option and it is putting me off. I think Procreate was one app like that. I had to do lots of research in the web and watch a lot of videos to decide if I want to pay for it or not. This is not something I want to do a lot in general.

Now, where I could see a problem is that the surest way for me not to download an app is if any form of subscription is involved. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a developer going subscription, it's just not for me - I hate, hate, hate the feeling/knowledge that there's a "bill due" somewhere out there; in my life, in every way I can, I try to lower my overhead, cost of living etc. - which means never taking on payment obligations if I can possibly avoid it (some, like f.ex. insurance, you can't). It's not 100% rational, I admit, because I'm more than happy to pay what in effect might be the price of a subscription if it's a one-time thing - so I'll pay a one time $100 happily but not $5 a month. If a new version comes out, and I feel I need it, I'll buy again for $100 (or, say $80). I look at it like buying a hat - I buy it once and when it's worn out, I'll buy again, but I'll never rent a hat.

I understand you because this is how I am too.

I'm just surprised there to hear that the number of people who would buy an app is as small as you claim. Because I don't see it - the few friends with whom I discuss these things (we all use iPads), are all happy to pay, and I even know one guy who doesn't mind subscriptions. Maybe I live in a bubble, but I'm happy to pay - only unhappy that there's not much worth paying for. YMMV.

I would buy an app if there is no other option but I have other options. I can find lots of free apps for Windows and install on my laptop. So why should I buy iOS specific app that in most cases does not come with its Windows counterpart (and I need it because I still prefer using laptop over tablet for longer periods of time due to ergonomics) when I can directly just install the Windows app on my computer.

Of course vice versa works too. Procreate is cheaper than Photoshop. Overall I would say that I personally check my options on both platforms and choose what works best for me. I am a bit of an older generation, former Developer, now lead of a Development team that uses lots of Office applications and I still cannot find the tablet workflows optimal enough. I can make them work but on laptop it is still way faster. Also healthier. Due to pure ergonomics stuff I get neck pain when using iPad (it is smaller device and I need to look down more). With laptop I can mitigate this as I can use docking station and put two big monitors (I rely on multiple screens for my work) but I cannot do that with an iPad.

Of course I use the iPad when outside in some coffee shop. At work or at home though the iPad is used only as a brainstorming tool (Notes), reading (Books or Goodnotes for PDFs) or coloring stuff (Procreate).

 

[riptidewahoo]

I think @DNichter referring to iPadOS instead of iPad Pro itself. Although, 2018 iPad Pro hardware is crazy good... iPadOS is what takes it to the next level.

Could be - I'm just more interested in hearing what the iPad is doing better than a typical PC.

 

[Ludatyk]

Could be - I'm just more interested in hearing what the iPad is doing better than a typical PC.

It's the flexibility it provides from the modern apps to the ease of use. A tradition PC.. with Windows, it's not tablet friendly.. there's not many modern apps, well.. at least not compared to the iPad.

For instance, with me... I have a LTE iPad Pro. I have the ability.. to pick it up and go.. while being connected wherever I go. With a PC, there's not too many options available. I'm not saying.. there's "none," just not too many options.

It's all subjective, perhaps... you feel differently. With a PC having a wide range of software available... more ports, full mouse support and a more traditional file management system.

 

[AustinIllini]

It is closer than it has ever been, but I'm going with still no.

 

[muzzy996]

It's all subjective, perhaps... you feel differently. With a PC having a wide range of software available... more ports, full mouse support and a more traditional file management system.

Exactly this. Subjective based upon use case/needs. For some an iPad may be all that they'll need, for others perhaps a laptop/computer will tick more boxes.

I'm in the camp where an iPad makes an excellent supplemental device for my computers/laptops but it will never be the end-all device for me based on some of the more technical or intensive needs that I have for some workflows.

 

[Starfia]

Almost ten years after iPad was announced?

iPad OS has become its own thing, and it isn't – and was never meant to be – macOS.

You can do many of the same tasks, if that's what you care about. But it looks different, feels different, makes you think differently about everything from your approach to how you handle the details.

It's like having a choice between two planets to live on (or the choice to love on both and commute between them). But it's less than ever like living on a planet versus a moon.