Canon 1Ds MKIII ~ 1Ds MKII N

[Grimace]

Because its pretty conceited to say that theirs does? The only reason a D200 is more intuitive is because she has one, if she had a 30D then she would say the 30D is more intuitive. Things like feel's better and intuitive are preferences, I was commenting on very specific image quality concerns. The kind you can actually measure.

So how many great 20+ year old lenses do you have? Of course this is off topic, but I wasn't the nikon user who comes into a canon thread and tries to start trouble.

I'm no mod, but I'm going to wave a white flag and say take it up thru personal messaging.

Let's get bak to the dirt on Canon's TWO new/updated offerings. I find it really strange that dealers would not be asked to sign an NDA for one camera, but would sign an NDA for another. Hmm....I don't think we'll have to wait until August 24th to get the full story the way leaks are pouring in from actual dealers!!

 

[Clix Pix]

More comfortable and intuitive? How conceited.

Oh, excuse me.... I guess I should have said, more comfortable and intuitive for ME, as that is what I meant. Guess you didn't bother reading the rest of my post, in which I indicated that the market is varied for individual preferences.....

I prefer Nikon camera bodies. I prefer Nikon lenses. That is not to say that Canon camera bodies or Canon lenses suck..... it's simply expressing MY thoughts and MY choices in how I spend my money on camera gear. Others are going to have other preferences and that is perfectly fine, that's what drives the market.

Actually, Jared, how many Canon lenses do you actually have? It seems to me that all you do is promote Sigma, so do you even HAVE any Canon lenses anyway? Or, for that matter, a Canon body?

 

[wilburdl]

I'm no mod, but I'm going to wave a white flag and say take it up thru personal messaging.

Let's get bak to the dirt on Canon's TWO new/updated offerings. I find it really strange that dealers would not be asked to sign an NDA for one camera, but would sign an NDA for another. Hmm....I don't think we'll have to wait until August 24th to get the full story the way leaks are pouring in from actual dealers!!

I don't believe it at all. I don't think it's possible to have a million dealers across the world sign a confidentiality agreement. Rather, I think they didn't tell them anything at all. If it's a leak it's from someone within the company.

I remember when the 1DsII was coming out--there were leaks/speculations left and right. Turns out that a good portion of them were true. It seems to me that Canon doesn't really keep products under wraps--especially the closer it gets to product launch. So the only thing I can really speculate on is that the successor must be coming because the rumor mill is kicking into high gear.

 

[Clix Pix]

Because its pretty conceited to say that theirs does? The only reason a D200 is more intuitive is because she has one, if she had a 30D then she would say the 30D is more intuitive. Things like feel's better and intuitive are preferences, I was commenting on very specific image quality concerns. The kind you can actually measure.

So how many great 20+ year old lenses do you have? Of course this is off topic, but I wasn't the nikon user who comes into a canon thread and tries to start trouble.

Well, first off, I'd hold up ANY Nikon lens to one of your beloved Sigmas any day and I'm sure that measurements of image quality would come out in favor of the Nikon lens each and every time......

Secondly, there's nothing wrong with having a camera feel good and feel intuitive in one's hands so that then one can work better with it. Eh? Preferences, yes....but that drives the market. How many times have we seen on this very forum where people have commented that they handled this or that camera body and it didnt feel right to them so they bought something else? Some people love the way a Nikon (or one Nikon body) feels and some people love the way a Canon (or one Canon body) feels....that's fine, that's OK. That's what keeps Canon and Nikon in business!

Image quality.....I'd venture to guess that my legendary Noct lens would far exceed anything one of your Canons or Sigmas could spit out.....

As for the last statement about "coming into a Canon thread and tries to start trouble...." Huh? Oh? This was a Canon-only thread? Well, EXCUUUSE me for living! Actually, I hadn't noticed that this was supposed to be a Canon-only thread. Oops!

Never mind my transgressions... Jared, just how many times have YOU butted into ANY thread and tried to pimp Sigma lenses? Huh?

 

[Clix Pix]

Guess I'd better get on-topic here....

Well, since Nikon is going to be unwrapping its newest DSLR on the 9th of this month, it's not surprising that Canon would be letting people know that there will be an important announcement from them on the 24th......

Let the competition begin! (Or, more accurately, continue!)

 

[ksz]

This is not dpreview, or should I say Pepe le Pew. Both stink the same although they have their charms. There shouldn't be a Canon vs Nikon debate in MacRumors and I don't think Clix Pix is fostering one.

Enuf of that.

I'm looking forward to Canon's latest and greatest. If they do release a 20+ MP FF body I will be veeeerrrry tempted, D200 or not. I have 8 lenses for my F100 and D200 bodies, but I'll still be tempted by the new Canon. Progress, after all, is progress. If the new sensor offers subtantially improved dynamic range exceeding even the best from FujiFilm, I may just be enamored enough to get it. Best of both worlds.

 

[ipacmm]

I'm no mod, but I'm going to wave a white flag and say take it up thru personal messaging.

Let's get bak to the dirt on Canon's TWO new/updated offerings. I find it really strange that dealers would not be asked to sign an NDA for one camera, but would sign an NDA for another. Hmm....I don't think we'll have to wait until August 24th to get the full story the way leaks are pouring in from actual dealers!!

I think it was a matter of people knowing that a new 1Ds MK II replacement will be coming out since the camera will be 2 years old next month and if you looked in the past you can see that something should be coming out...so it think Canon really didn't need to hide the fact that the updated version is coming, even the people at B&H told me that it will be out in Aug/Sept time and that was a few months ago. I think Canon would rather keep the new camera under wraps since it would be brand new over an update...but I guess we will just find out in a few weeks.

 

[jared_kipe]

Well, first off, I'd hold up ANY Nikon lens to one of your beloved Sigmas any day and I'm sure that measurements of image quality would come out in favor of the Nikon lens each and every time......

This is the most ignorant statement I've ever heard. Yeah, I'm so sure ANY nikon lens would be so superior to Sigma lens. How do you live in a world with such brand loyalty?

Secondly, there's nothing wrong with having a camera feel good and feel intuitive in one's hands so that then one can work better with it. Eh? Preferences, yes....but that drives the market. How many times have we seen on this very forum where people have commented that they handled this or that camera body and it didnt feel right to them so they bought something else? Some people love the way a Nikon (or one Nikon body) feels and some people love the way a Canon (or one Canon body) feels....that's fine, that's OK. That's what keeps Canon and Nikon in business!

Yeah, so I guess I'd like to twirl my thumb in a circle to scroll up and down menus... am I describing the 30D or an iPod? Both.

Image quality.....I'd venture to guess that my legendary Noct lens would far exceed anything one of your Canons or Sigmas could spit out.....

I can think of better ways to spend $2000, like maybe a Canon 85mm f1.2 that is just as good, cheaper and can auto-focus.

As for the last statement about "coming into a Canon thread and tries to start trouble...." Huh? Oh? This was a Canon-only thread? Well, EXCUUUSE me for living! Actually, I hadn't noticed that this was supposed to be a Canon-only thread. Oops!

Never mind my transgressions... Jared, just how many times have YOU butted into ANY thread and tried to pimp Sigma lenses? Huh?

You don't see me in the new Nikon DSLR threads saying how superior the 30D, do you? You never say anything good about Canon, or Sigma, so how am I with the biased "pimping".
In fact show me a thread where I'm so guilty of "pimping" Sigma lenses.

 

[Grimace]

Seriously, this is between you two only - take it to private messaging please.

 

[iGary]

Yeah, can we not make this place like DP Review, please.

Photographers and their fracking egos.

 

[DavPeanut]

From other stuff I've heard, the stuff about the 1Ds Mark III at 22 MP seems right. Canon still has the 16.7 MP FF sensor though, and I'd guess that that is what would go into an EOS 3D. I had heard earlier that they were not combining the N and non-N EOS 1s, and the the N version would now have the same sensor as the 5D (12.8 MP, FF) but would do 11-12 FPS. I think we can also expect to see a BIG price drop for the 5D, maybe to $2000. The 3D, if it does come, will probably be weather-proof with an L-series body. People with nice lenses don't all want to pay $8k for matching bodies. Maybe a pricing plan like this would work:
5D $2000
3D $5000
1D $8000
Nice increments of $3000. It could also go $2500, $5000, $7500, but that is harder to predict.

 

[beavo451]

I would be very tempted to buy a 5D if it were to drop down to $2000. But then I would have to buy new glass though... Thinking about it, I would have the perpetual Nikon vs. Canon war in my very own room!

 

[jared_kipe]

I'm not sure I buy the 5D at $2000. It would be killer if they did, but I think it would be perhaps a little too close to the 30D in price.

 

[Mike Teezie]

I'm praying for 5D price drops, as it's the only thing I'll realistically be able to purchase. I don;t think it will get anywhere near $2000 though. If it made it to around $2500-ish, that would be pretty amazing.

Exciting stuff though - WWDC, Canon and Nikon slugging it out, Sony entering the market - good times, good times.

 

[Grimace]

I'm not sure I buy the 5D at $2000. It would be killer if they did, but I think it would be perhaps a little too close to the 30D in price.

Good point, Canon has to keep some differentiation between its sub-12MP cameras.

I'm hoping that there is something great released around the $4k mark. That will probably entice a lot of professionals.

A new 13.3MP pro body @ 6fps or the old mkII 16MP body @ 3fps -- tough choice.

 

[cgratti]

I'm not sure I buy the 5D at $2000. It would be killer if they did, but I think it would be perhaps a little too close to the 30D in price.

If the 5D came down to $2000, I jump on it like white on rice......

 

[jared_kipe]

If the 5D came down to $2000, I jump on it like white on rice......

Everyone would, and the price for pretty much every other camera would drop. Maybe drop the 30D down to 1000-1100 body only. Such wishful thinking.

 

[DavPeanut]

I HAVE a 30D. They are rather awesome, especially with the 5 fps. The 5D lacks that feature, and while the 12.8 MP chip is nice, it has a lower pixel density than the Rebel or 10D. I cant imagine that its to expensive to make. It doesn't have the weatherproof body, and while people have been buying it for $3k, i don't really know if it's been doing that well. Amateur photographers who have lens collections of significant size, especially wide angle lenses, have long complained about APS sized sensors. The 5D does not really have that many features that make it better than the 30D other than it's sensor size and total MPs. It could concivably receive a rather significant price cut on the 24th.

 

[law guy]

I HAVE a 30D. They are rather awesome, especially with the 5 fps. The 5D lacks that feature, and while the 12.8 MP chip is nice, it has a lower pixel density than the Rebel or 10D. I cant imagine that its to expensive to make. It doesn't have the weatherproof body, and while people have been buying it for $3k, i don't really know if it's been doing that well. Amateur photographers who have lens collections of significant size, especially wide angle lenses, have long complained about APS sized sensors. The 5D does not really have that many features that make it better than the 30D other than it's sensor size and total MPs. It could concivably receive a rather significant price cut on the 24th.

It's already been selling for around $2500 - $2600 for the last few months with a price of $2900 and a rebate of $300 that ran from early spring through July 15. The Canon updates that pop up around the web seem to indicate it's been doing well. That said, I'd like to see a 5D price drop as well - under $2000, a 5Dn weather sealed in the $2000s and my 30D go to to a $1,000 (and as I've advocated for so long, along with a further price drop, getting rid of the strange "Rebel XT" US moniker and just calling it a 350D). But despite my thoughts that some price cuts would be a good thing, do I think that large price cuts are in the cards - not really. From the Canon sales reports, it seems its sales are strong and if folks will pay $2600 (w/rebate) for a 5D or $1299 for a 30D, then I can't see Canon taking much away there - esp. with two newer models. Perhaps the 350D will come down a little more.

 

[jared_kipe]

The 5D is a pretty impressive resolution advancement over the 30D. When looking at 100% crops of the two cameras it is very obvious that the 12MP is capturing more detail. Especially when using RAW. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos30d/page27.asp

For this you pay the price with bigger image files, and slower burst mode.

 

[Grimace]

a little more fuel for the fire

This supposedly comes from a beta tester of the new 1Ds mkIIn/III

---------------------------------

Before 1 month I tested a new sensor that I think it could be for the 1Ds new model camera. If what they told me is correct and no major changes will be done, then expect the following soon…

22 Aug will be the official presentation.
21 Nov 2006 the first one will hit the streets at 9.999$ suggested price.

22MP 12bit color usable at 3200asa. (48x36cm newCMOS)
User could switch to12MP 8bit color and work at 4800asa (getting almost same noise as with 5D at 1600asa, that my test showed).

Also 6400asa will be there as option but as I tested is not usable (except for B&W photos).

ISO priority mode.
New DIGI-chip offering 3presets for real-time tonality enhancements. (Much better than the one I tested in a new SONY A-DSLR).

Also 1Ds Mark III will be compatible with the new EF-Ls lenses. (There will be some new lenses soon for new 2xFullFrame cameras (in 2years maybe). Something like the opposite of the EF-S called EF-Ls or EF-Ds.

I also tested a new replacement Dalsa-CCD for MamiyaZD 21.7 MP with 12bit color but it could not perform well at 800asa.

Excuse my English I am from Greenland and I work in Germany and Netherlands where people don’t speak English…

 

[Grimace]

The one thing that really stands out to me is that the new sensor is supposed to be 48x36mm - the current 1Ds mkII has a full frame 36x24mm full frame sensor. He is calling it 2xFullframe (not mathematically accurate, but still!)

48x36: 4x3
36x24: 3:2

 

[jared_kipe]

I don't think we will be seeing a DSLR from Canon with an image sensor larger than the 35mm standard. As it is, the D2X looks better in the corners with good lenses because of its 1.5x crop, so I don't see Canon coming out with new more expensive lenses for something like a .8x crop DSLR.

 

[Grimace]

I don't think we will be seeing a DSLR from Canon with an image sensor larger than the 35mm standard. As it is, the D2X looks better in the corners with good lenses because of its 1.5x crop, so I don't see Canon coming out with new more expensive lenses for something like a .8x crop DSLR.

Any cropped sensor camera will look better in corners with good lenses -- you're not really looking at the corners of the lens!

With good L lenses, I think the Canon full frame bodies compete at the same level as anything Nikon makes. (we won't turn this into a Canon vs. Nikon debate...)

i still have to wonder about the physics of going larger than full frame with lenses that weren't designed for it.

 

[ksz]

There's a 150-post thread at DP Review. The original poster is apparently a professor at a Greenland university where he works, among other things, on improvements in sensor dynamic range. His students have been testing various aspects of the new Canon sensor. However, none of the information he posted has been corroborated.

If the new sensor is larger than FF it will require new lenses with larger image circles. Existing lenses will still work, but in a cropped (FF) mode similar in concept to the cropped mode of the D2X. But to get the full benefit of 22 megapixels, you'll need new "EF-L or EF-D" lenses. These, of course, will produce larger image circles.

The Canon lens mount has a larger diameter than Nikon's. I haven't pulled the numbers and done the math, but it may be possible for Canon to create larger image circle lenses using the same mount. This would also mean that the size of the new body could be approximately the same as the existing 1Ds.

Anyway we'll know the truth soon enough.