Canon 5D MkII Announced!

[jaduffy108]

I really don't want to get into a discussion about whose post displays the most arrogance or what have you.

ok. I just hope my last post helped you understand what I'm so worked up about

I do have this one question. Did you look at the link troyhark posted, because I find Lois Greenfield's work to be truly beautiful, and she is apparently using a medium format camera for those action dance shots.

I'm quite familiar with Lois and her work...having met her many times in NYC. She's been around for many years. She's the real deal...no doubt. Last I heard, she's very focused on studio work. I know a dancer that worked with her..Verena...what a babe. Is she still working with dancers?? I'm not sure if she uses medium format exclusively, but I do know she was using a Hasselblad with a digital back as of late last year. Actually, she would be an ideal candidate for a 5dII

Again...with Lois, controlled environment. If your point is...are there exceptions to my posts regarding the 5dII or medium format for action...sure, of course. If you're Lois Greenfiled (!!) .... can afford to dedicate BIG money for gear that's for studio work....AND... can have pro dancers repeat movements over and over and over AND OVER again in attempting to capture the "decisive moment"...sure, go for it.

I'll go check out her site...thanks.

 

[SLC Flyfishing]

Yawn!

I don't know, I'm just underwhelmed by this one. It's like they think that a bunch of extra resolution is the answer. I think it's only to stay even with Sony's new camera in the megapixel race (which a surprisingly large number of canon fans seem to still care about). On another forum, the Canon fans are always talking about how we're getting too much pixel density these days, then this one comes out and 3/4ths of them are swooning.

SLC

 

[wheezy]

Yawn! I don't know, I'm just underwhelmed by this one. It's like they think that a bunch of extra resolution is the answer. SLC

Why is that the only thing noted on this new build is the MP count? It's moved up from the Digic 2 to the Digic 4, a much broader ISO range to match Nikon, LiveView, 1080p HD, Peripheral Illumination Correction (which is a little gimmicky seeing as it's only for JPG) and a few more things. It's not just more MP.

 

[jaduffy108]

Why is that the only thing noted on this new build is the MP count? It's moved up from the Digic 2 to the Digic 4, a much broader ISO range to match Nikon, LiveView, 1080p HD, Peripheral Illumination Correction (which is a little gimmicky seeing as it's only for JPG) and a few more things. It's not just more MP.

I believe the "yawn" from SLC Flyfishing and others I've read online...(myself included if I were a average Canon user) is:
The new features of the 5dII, most importantly will not impact my ability to "get the shot" or the final output IQ. Mathematically...yes, the IQ will be better....but in reality...no. If I compare a 50D to a 5dII...the IQ on average size prints up to the occasional A2 will be VERY comparable. So what good is 21 MP to the average photographer? There are people who will be very interested in the 5dII as a studio cam and even a possible medium format replacement. Those people...sorry, but frankly...they won't be asking the questions you're asking...they KNOW what they need and why.

******
Why do you feel a *need* for the 5dII? What does it do that your current cam can not do?

What shots have you missed due to the limitations of your current cam and how does the 5dII fill those needs?

What other issues would a 5dII solve for you?...such as large prints for gallery exhibitions.

Have good, thoughtful answers to those questions? Cool...get the 5dII and enjoy. If not...look for the product that answers those questions. If you don't have any questions that arise from specific needs...then you don't need a new camera!!! Spend the money on a photog training.

******

As has been said before...the 5dII *appears* to have a wonderful sensor and superb ISO performance as usual. Canon chose not to add some *pro* features, but instead added gimicky stuff with the unspoken excuse being not to cannibalize their PRO line of products. Just as the 5dmkI was a Pro quality sensor inside a prosumer body with a prosumer feature set....the 5dII continues that "tradition". It's a GOOD tradition. The original 5d was a breakthrough product on all accounts. Problem is...imo...Nikon finally got their act together and expectations have been raised...significantly. The d300 and D700 represent serious value/performance.

IMO, some of that gimicky stuff in the 5dII is pretty cool regardless, but for *me* it sure doesn't make up for a mediocre AF system, etc inside a $2700 cam...when I can get PRO features from either a used Canon 1D series or a new Nikon D700 for the same or less money. Just watch out with the 1dmkIII.

Do you anticipate exhibiting large prints in a gallery? The 5dII would be awesome for that. Again...landscapes? Awesome choice. Portraits? Awesome. You know where I'm going...I have already suggested it's strengths and weaknesses ... ad nauseam.

This perspective is all over the photog forums online...it's a "common wisdom" perspective amongst PRO photographers.

You wrote you don't want to switch to Nikon...no problem...Canon makes great gear. Just know the problems with Nikkor lens you wrote about aren't as bad as you seem to believe. The 70-200 does have some issues on FX...but the 14-24, 24-70 and others are STELLAR.

Back to the 5dII....if you just "want it", which usually translates into...
"I want bragging rights for owning the 21mp cam"...and that's worth $2700 to you...knock yourself out.

 

[SLC Flyfishing]

Why is that the only thing noted on this new build is the MP count? It's moved up from the Digic 2 to the Digic 4, a much broader ISO range to match Nikon, LiveView, 1080p HD, Peripheral Illumination Correction (which is a little gimmicky seeing as it's only for JPG) and a few more things. It's not just more MP.

I don't know, I just think that 21 MP may be overkill for more than 90% of the folks out there. I know it gives more room to crop, but I have a 10 MP cam and I don't find myself wanting for more cropping latitude, ever.

I just think that for the price, the new 5D gets way out classed by the Nikon D700, I'm no fanboy (except maybe for Pentax which is what I own and shoot), but for that kind of money I'd like a camera with awesome IQ (which the 5D and the D700 have) Full Frame (which the 5D and D700 have) weather sealing (which the 5D and D700 have) and a fast frame rate and AF system (which apparently only the D700 has).

And I'll be the first to admit that I rarely even make use of the 3 FPS frame rate of the K10D that I own, and it's got slow AF. But even if I wouldn't have a lot of need for those features, for that kind of cash, I certainly don't think it's a stretch to expect them. In the end, the new 5D is way to boring to me to consider dropping $3,000 on it. I'm toying with the idea of buying into a second system this year, now I can rest assured I won't have to consider Canon.

SLC

 

[wheezy]

Back to the 5dII....if you just "want it", which usually translates into..."I want bragging rights for owning the 21mp cam"...and that's worth $2700 to you...knock yourself out.

I'm pretty sure I said in a previous post (although it could be easily overlooked) I want a FF camera, hence the 'need' to buy a new one. While I'd consider just buying the Mk 1 5D, there are the other features on the MkII that I'm interested in, mainly the extra ISO range (which better actually be worthwhile). I shoot drag racers at the 1/4 mile track out here, and after the sun is gone and the racing continues, all I have to rely on is my 135 f/2 and ISO 3200; yes there is noise but the racers don't care, they want the best shot of their car. If I can bust into 6400 or even 12,800 to allow me to stop my lens down and still get a 1/200 shutter then that helps me sell more prints. I rarely use the 5fps my 20D can do, so 3.9 will be fine. From what I've discovered, my best prints are the split second after the light goes green and the tires are folding around the wheel; that takes perfect 1 shot timing as opposed to a motordrive. (But as you've stated, in other sports, 3.9 doesn't come close to cutting it, but I'm not in that arena of photography)



The 21MP is actually the smallest bit in the 'want' department. I have no care for bragging rights. I've never needed more than the 8.2 that my 20D provides. For what I do, the 5D mkII is a perfect upgrade for me.

 

[Digital Skunk]

...

That's the same assessment that a lot of photogs may be making too SLC. Not that the 5D isn't a worthy update, just that it was expected and some (myself included) were looking for the few things that the 5DI was missing to be added. We only got weather sealing. The frame rate is still quite slow for journalists looking to go FF with fast rates (which are needed in a tactical way) and for a tougher body.

The AF is still from the previous model which is great, but the speed increase would have been welcomed, especially since the 1DsIII got a faster engine.

I still wanted Canon to make the 5D a true 1DsIII lite like the D700 is a D3 lite but that's just the way the companies work. For a lot of photogs the 5D is welcomed and amazing, (SEE P.S. BELOW) but for some the frame rate and AF won't make it possible to make the switch. Especially since the high ISO would be welcomed for wedding photogs, but the frame rate and AF may turn them off.

p.s. I have seen the sample video files from both the D90 and 5D, very impressed. But the buzz on the web comes from a lot of shooters that don't do video professionally. Audio acquisition and the benefits of having a REAL motion picture HD cam far out way the specs of the 5D and D90.

Not to say that either won't find their uses in the semi pro/pro world in a crunch or for these adrenaline pumped teenage shooters that everyone loves.

 

[wheezy]

Not to say that either won't find their uses in the semi pro/pro world in a crunch or for these adrenaline pumped teenage shooters that everyone loves.

As long as I can become a YouTube celebrity, that is my goal in life </sarcasm>

 

[tonyeck]

Not quite sure where the above discussion is going, but just want to say I have just pre-ordered one, mainly after being sold by Vincent Laforet's blog post.

Roll on November!

 

[Hmac]

AND WE'RE DONE. Moving on... nothing to see here. Quite frankly I'm VERY disappointed in where this thread went, I never see this kind of bickering and b!tching in the photo forums, usually that's seems to be reserved for the design forums where everyone... I'll stop there. And you stop here too.

Whew....don't you ever visit DPR? That place exceeds this one for impolite discourse by a noticeable margin.

But I do agree we can be done. The 5DMkII will work out fine for those whose photography falls into the niche it was designed for. Likewise the D700, the D3, and the 1DMkIII. Canon will survive, Nikon will survive.

 

[wheezy]

Whew....don't you ever visit DPR? That place exceeds this one for impolite discourse by a noticeable margin.

But I do agree we can be done. The 5DMkII will work out fine for those whose photography falls into the niche it was designed for. Likewise the D700, the D3, and the 1DMkIII. Canon will survive, Nikon will survive.

Nope, I never visit the forums on DPR, being addicted to Macrumors is enough of a time consumer for my work day The photo forum on here does me well enough.

 

[wheezy]

Not quite sure where the above discussion is going, but just want to say I have just pre-ordered one, mainly after being sold by Vincent Laforet's blog post.

Roll on November!

I'm reading his review right now, and he's being pretty bold in his low-light claims. Exactly what I want!

EDIT - I just finished his review, and YES, he's basically a Canon celebrity so of course he'll talk up the camera, but reading that got me very excited now, no more questions. Call me what you want, I'm buying this camera.

 

[tonyeck]

I'm reading his review right now, and he's being pretty bold in his low-light claims. Exactly what I want!

EDIT - I just finished his review, and YES, he's basically a Canon celebrity so of course he'll talk up the camera, but reading that got me very excited now, no more questions. Call me what you want, I'm buying this camera.

He is a Canon Celebrity, but hell, I was sold by it.

If you want one this year you may need to pre order ASAP. A lot of places have already sold out

 

[troyhark]

I NEVER RECOMMENDED THE 5D FOR ACTION PHOTOGRAPHY.
You said it was useless for dance. I disagreed as I photograph dancers and funnily enough find it very good, indeed way better than the cameras your 'expertise' recommended over the 5D. The 5D was ideal for my needs. What camera anyone else prefers to use is up to them.
Heck, if everyone else is using 1DsIII/Nikon D3s to capture an event, I may be tempted to use a pinhole camera to get a different image from the rest of the herd. Now where's my aluminium foil and needle?


Oh one other thing, the image I "PS'd to death", that's a JPEG straight out of camera - 10secs with clone tool to remove a lamp post, being the only pping done, other than output sharpening after shrinking for web. Didn't see any point tweaking the RAW file as image was simply to show timing. The final look of shot may well end up being nothing like the colour image posted.

 

[tonie]

man, a 5d and 85L drooooool.......

 

[harcosparky]

Quite a few 5Ds suffered mirror failure well short of the expected actuations. The mirrors literally fell off. Something to do with the glue used to attach them!

Is it possible? Just possible that the Mechanism is the same, but the ADHESIVE was changed???

Back to the 5dII....if you just "want it", which usually translates into...
"I want bragging rights for owning the 21mp cam"...and that's worth $2700 to you...knock yourself out.

Good statement ... all too often people make a purchase based solely on that reason - to get bragging rights.

 

[Col127]

check out this link on a review of the mkII by wedding photographers. looks real promising: http://www.bebbblog.com/index.php?category=7&start=0

 

[troyhark]

A feature where the new 5D will be worth buying for alone for some is the Live View.
A lot of people sneer at it, but I find it very useful with my compact as I can accurately frame shots when I physically cannot get to look through viewfinder, which gives you more options on viewpoints. Plus it means on film sets when you have to shoot during a take, I won't upset the sound guys as the camera doesn't have a clunky mirror banging up and down. I don't like blimps as they turn a modern ergonomic camera into a box brownie. http://www.soundblimp.com/Default.htm
Worth the upgrade all on it's own if you need a quiet FF camera.

 

[troyhark]

Something else I have noticed is that the best photographers around have no time to argue about cameras and such, or are usually very quiet about it.

Depends on the forum. Lots of pros like to find out information germane to their job and when cards are copying to computer or one's images are being rendered/batched, it leaves plenty of time to do research. Though as Bridge CS4 is so much faster that CS3, I've spent an awful lot less time online as a result since using it and I've hardly used LR since testing CS4.

 

[Phrasikleia]

A feature where the new 5D will be worth buying for alone for some is the Live View.
A lot of people sneer at it, but I find it very useful with my compact as I can accurately frame shots when I physically cannot get to look through viewfinder, which gives you more options on viewpoints. Plus it means on film sets when you have to shoot during a take, I won't upset the sound guys as the camera doesn't have a clunky mirror banging up and down. I don't like blimps as they turn a modern ergonomic camera into a box brownie. http://www.soundblimp.com/Default.htm
Worth the upgrade all on it's own if you need a quiet FF camera.

Does the 5D have some radically different Live View implementation? How could it possibly be more quiet? On my XSi, I still have the mirror clap when shooting in Live View. In fact, I have it twice: once when the mirror flips down to focus, and then again when I press the shutter.

 

[robbieduncan]

Does the 5D have some radically different Live View implementation? How could it possibly be more quiet? On my XSi, I still have the mirror clap when shooting in Live View. In fact, I have it twice: once when the mirror flips down to focus, and then again when I press the shutter.

As described on this page the 5D, along with the 40D and 50D have a "Silent Shooting" mode with live view. The 450D/XSi lacks this.

 

[Martin C]

Vincent LaForet posted a short film he made with the 5D MkII movie mode:
http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=2086

 

[Phrasikleia]

As described on this page the 5D, along with the 40D and 50D have a "Silent Shooting" mode with live view. The 450D/XSi lacks this.

Nice! I wonder if the Nikon D90 can do that.

It's a pity they didn't include that feature with the XSi. I draw a lot of attention from the guards in museums with all that clacking going on. Even if they allow photography, it makes the guards hawk eye me intensely and follow me around, which is a bit disconcerting.

 

[Mike Teezie]

I have one on preorder to replace my 5D. I am interested in the higher ISO performance, and I can't pretend that shooting 1080p videos doesn't get my geek lust going.

This is actually perfect timing for me, now I can replace my 1Ds mkII with a III later in '09, after these new cameras hopefully drive the prices down a little bit.

 

[tonie]

Mike, where did you pre-order it from? And how much?