Clamshell Mode discussion [merged]

[ZapNZs]

What happened at the 4.5 year mark with that one?

Regarding dust inside the MBP being minimal, that makes sense to me and validates my guess that MBP are so closed up tightly, it should be harder for dust to get in. I used an electric duster specifically this one https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16896367002 to clean the PC components, it's powerful and really gets the job done, it beats paying $10/can of compressed air. With the MBP I'm not so sure I can use it as this thing will make the fans spin with great speed, so don't know if the laptop could handle it.

I'm definitely not going to be babyin'g it day in day out, just taking some precautions every 6 months and maybe blow some air through the vents to get even that thin film of dust out.

Regarding battery, I read in the apple community forum someone had good success with discharging their laptop to 35% or so then reconnecting it back up to the charger and he said his battery hast lasted a few years with good efficiency still. Seems kind of annoying to do every 2 weeks though.
[doublepost=1488252277][/doublepost]

I plan to be using it in the vertical position like this. I don't like many monitors as I said before, it's distracting but since it is smaller maybe there can be some use of it. Is it me or is this stand blocking the back vents?

There can be some benefits


You don't need to discharge to 35% simply to discharge. This increases wear on lithium batteries. The only reason such discharge cycles would be used with common lithium cells are if it is required for calibration, and I don't think Apple batteries have required calibration since like a decade ago!

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

Similar to a mechanical device that wears out faster with heavy use, the depth of discharge (DoD) determines the cycle count of the battery. The smaller the discharge (low DoD), the longer the battery will last. If at all possible, avoid full discharges and charge the battery more often between uses. Partial discharge on Li-ion is fine. There is no memory and the battery does not need periodic full discharge cycles to prolong life. The exception may be a periodic calibration of the fuel gauge on a smart battery or intelligent device.

Environmental conditions, not cycling alone, govern the longevity of lithium-ion batteries. The worst situation is keeping a fully charged battery at elevated temperatures. Battery packs do not die suddenly, but the runtime gradually shortens as the capacity fades.

Lower charge voltages prolong battery life and electric vehicles and satellites take advantage of this. Similar provisions could also be made for consumer devices, but these are seldom offered; planned obsolescence takes care of this.

A laptop battery could be prolonged by lowering the charge voltage when connected to the AC grid. To make this feature user-friendly, a device should feature a “Long Life” mode that keeps the battery at 4.05V/cell and offers a capacity of about 80 percent. One hour before traveling, the user requests the “Full Capacity” mode to bring the charge to 4.20V/cell.

The question is asked, “Should I disconnect my laptop from the power grid when not in use?” Under normal circumstances this should not be necessary because charging stops when the Li-ion battery is full. A topping charge is only applied when the battery voltage drops to a certain level. Most users do not remove the AC power, and this practice is safe.

Modern laptops run cooler than older models and reported fires are fewer. Always keep the airflow unobstructed when running electric devices with air-cooling on a bed or pillow. A cool laptop extends battery life and safeguards the internal components. Energy Cells, which most consumer products have, should be charged at 1C or less. Avoid so-called ultra-fast chargers that claim to fully charge Li-ion in less than one hour.

 

[smirking]

What happened at the 4.5 year mark with that one?

My wifi died. I thought it was the wifi card so I bought a replacement wireless card only to find out that it wasn't the problem. The problem was the cable that connected the wifi card to the logic board. It's a flat hard and very stiff ribbon cable that snaps into place at both ends. There was no obvious signs of damage or warping in the cable.

Apparently it's a pretty common issue for that cable to fail. A number of other people also reported doing the same thing I did. They replaced their wireless card only to realize that it was the cable. This happened at around the 4 year mark. Other than that, my 2012 is going strong. It has since received a new battery and has been passed down to my wife.

The fans on that thing were always spinning. It was doing heavy labor all the time. I was very pleased it held up as well as it did.

BTW, I concur with you about being a one screen person. I mostly use only one screen. I only occasionally use my MBP as a second screen when I'm monitoring a database while making code changes or I'm reviewing photos. I use one screen as a browser and one screen to view the photo in full detail.

Otherwise, I find more than one screen distracting. Sometimes I even find my 5K monitor distracting and I'll use just the laptop. I have spaces heavily configured so I flip through spaces by muscle memory to pull up whatever program I need at the moment. When I have two screens it actually slows me down because then I'm not sure which screen my item is going to appear on. It's just enough of a hitch to interrupt my flow.

 

[bhayes444]

What happened at the 4.5 year mark with that one?

Regarding dust inside the MBP being minimal, that makes sense to me and validates my guess that MBP are so closed up tightly, it should be harder for dust to get in. I used an electric duster specifically this one https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16896367002 to clean the PC components, it's powerful and really gets the job done, it beats paying $10/can of compressed air. With the MBP I'm not so sure I can use it as this thing will make the fans spin with great speed, so don't know if the laptop could handle it.

I'm definitely not going to be babyin'g it day in day out, just taking some precautions every 6 months and maybe blow some air through the vents to get even that thin film of dust out.

Regarding battery, I read in the apple community forum someone had good success with discharging their laptop to 35% or so then reconnecting it back up to the charger and he said his battery hast lasted a few years with good efficiency still. Seems kind of annoying to do every 2 weeks though.
[doublepost=1488252277][/doublepost]

I plan to be using it in the vertical position like this. I don't like many monitors as I said before, it's distracting but since it is smaller maybe there can be some use of it. Is it me or is this stand blocking the back vents?

That seems like a real nice duster! Might have to pick one up myself.

I do agree that the stand in the picture seems to be blocking the back vents. I don't use that stand myself, but the older model book arc by Twelve south. I keep mine vertical for more desk real estate when hooking up to a monitor, but I always face the vents up. To me it seems like a smarter decision as air is designed to flow through the laptop from front to hinge, and putting it vents up would have the fans blowing the hot air in the direction it rises; as opposed to blowing the hot air down and against its natural tendency. Two drawbacks to vents up: 1)the Apple logo being upside down, which I could not care less about; and 2) the ports being a bit further away from the surface of the desk, which might make the cables hanging off the side seem more unsightly (again I don't really care). Another bonus to vertical stands is it allows the bottom of the laptop a lot more airflow than if it were on the desk. It might not amount to much added cooling, but I'm sure it helps a little.

 

[Mac2c]

My wifi died. I thought it was the wifi card so I bought a replacement wireless card only to find out that it wasn't the problem. The problem was the cable that connected the wifi card to the logic board. It's a flat hard and very stiff ribbon cable that snaps into place at both ends. There was no obvious signs of damage or warping in the cable.

Apparently it's a pretty common issue for that cable to fail. A number of other people also reported doing the same thing I did. They replaced their wireless card only to realize that it was the cable. This happened at around the 4 year mark. Other than that, my 2012 is going strong. It has since received a new battery and has been passed down to my wife.

The fans on that thing were always spinning. It was doing heavy labor all the time. I was very pleased it held up as well as it did.

BTW, I concur with you about being a one screen person. I mostly use only one screen. I only occasionally use my MBP as a second screen when I'm monitoring a database while making code changes or I'm reviewing photos. I use one screen as a browser and one screen to view the photo in full detail.

Otherwise, I find more than one screen distracting. Sometimes I even find my 5K monitor distracting and I'll use just the laptop. I have spaces heavily configured so I flip through spaces by muscle memory to pull up whatever program I need at the moment. When I have two screens it actually slows me down because then I'm not sure which screen my item is going to appear on. It's just enough of a hitch to interrupt my flow.

Oh right the cable, you did mention this a few times, sorry I was kind of confused. I guess it was the cable inside the MBP that was faulty, for some reason I was envisioning a cable and wifi outside of the MBP. That's great, so it had nothing to do with heat and still going strong, that is encouraging!

Yes we can really do one thing properly at a time anyway and do it justice so I stick with one display.
The 5k maybe too much real estate, I also prefer smaller screens like 21"-24" max, no bigger than that.

That seems like a real nice duster! Might have to pick one up myself.

I do agree that the stand in the picture seems to be blocking the back vents. I don't use that stand myself, but the older model book arc by Twelve south. I keep mine vertical for more desk real estate when hooking up to a monitor, but I always face the vents up. To me it seems like a smarter decision as air is designed to flow through the laptop from front to hinge, and putting it vents up would have the fans blowing the hot air in the direction it rises; as opposed to blowing the hot air down and against its natural tendency. Two drawbacks to vents up: 1)the Apple logo being upside down, which I could not care less about; and 2) the ports being a bit further away from the surface of the desk, which might make the cables hanging off the side seem more unsightly (again I don't really care). Another bonus to vertical stands is it allows the bottom of the laptop a lot more airflow than if it were on the desk. It might not amount to much added cooling, but I'm sure it helps a little.

It is a great duster, and you definitely should! Comes in handy for many other things as well, a great value for the money spent, mine has lasted 5 years now? Still going strong.

Yes exactly, I was thinking this earlier! I was thinking the exact same thing, it makes no sense to a) block the vents b) the vent is point down so the hot air is actually going down, some ricocheting back up into the vent or not clearing as well it should c) it should be faced the other way around so it's a seamless hot air escape experience (haha) . The fact that it draws air from the front and pushes out at the hinge means that is actually the perfect way to set it up. Combine this with the fact that the vertical stand gets 360 degrees of unobstructed air flow, unlike the the horizontal desk stands that obstruct the bottom side of the laptop, then synergystically this should have a decent effect on cooling rather than all the other options. Now I see why the book arc was designed the way it is with no blockage at the contact point. Looks like I'll have to get one of those too!

I see the drawbacks, but they seem small to me also, and can possibly be mitigated.

 

[Chancha]

All Apple laptops are designed to be used flat, with the lid opened and the keyboard + palm rest areas being vertical heat sinks. Clamshell mode is possible and is perfectly fine to be used forever under light load, but in my experience, whenever the fan(s) kick in automatically, it is best to at least half open the lid to allow dramatically more air flow for heat to exchange.

As a result even when I leave the Macbook in a semi-pernament position, I always have it flat or half hung in the air with a stand, lid closed but be ready to open any time. But I do understand vertical standing positions are huge space saver in tight workspaces, I don't think there is an immediate risk but in the long run, the extra heat that you didn't lose effectively is likely shortening the hardware lifespan, or doing oil damage onto the screen coating / keyboard+trackpad.

 

[CrownVic]

I use mine upside down so the vents are up (heat rises). I use it like this 5 days of the week, and my two days at school I use it as a laptop. On my school days the battery is fine and lasts the entire day.

 

[bartvk]

(image)

Really like this setup. Nice and clean!

 

[CrownVic]

Really like this setup. Nice and clean!

Thank you! I'm a big fan of a simple setup

 

[Eduardboon]

After a few hours of using clamshell mode my lid always "sticks" to the keyboard, I have to use 2 hands to open it and it "clicks" while doing it. Only when the Mac gets hot though. So I would say that's not too great, but otherwise I've never had any problems with using clamshell mode in the past 5 years.

 

[killawat]

Closed lid is perfectly fine OP. I have a 2006 and 2010 MBP that have been in clamshell mode most of their lives and they're perfectly fine. my 2016 is closed rite now.

Why not get a desktop? I'd love to, but Apple won't give me a TB3 desktop. I've asked.

If Clamshell mode was outside the operating parameters of the MBP then Apple wouldn't allow it.
Instead, they offer convenient how tos:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201834

 

[SparkFlash]

I have used my laptop now for a couple years and I am 80% clamshell. I have not seen any issues at all.

 

[Mac2c]

I use mine upside down so the vents are up (heat rises). I use it like this 5 days of the week, and my two days at school I use it as a laptop. On my school days the battery is fine and lasts the entire day.

Yep that's what I would do as well, makes more sense. What monitor do you have there? Looks nice.

 

[csurfr]

Yep that's what I would do as well, makes more sense. What monitor do you have there? Looks nice.

That looks to be the 27" Dell UltraSharp InfinityEdge 4k display.

https://www.amazon.com/Dell-UltraSh...TF8&qid=1488354056&sr=8-1&keywords=dell+2715h

Very pretty screen.

 

[CrownVic]

Yep that's what I would do as well, makes more sense. What monitor do you have there? Looks nice.

Its a Dell S2415H. You get a lot of bang for your buck with it! Virtually no bezels, full HD, and great colors


http://www.bestbuy.com/site/dell-s2...ffcode=pg199051&ksdevice=c&lsft=ref:212,loc:2

 

[dyn]

All Apple laptops are designed to be used flat, with the lid opened and the keyboard + palm rest areas being vertical heat sinks.

No they are not, that is an urban legend. These machines are designed to dissipate heat through the fans which will blow out the hot air via the duct system in the display hinge. In the MacBook Pro this effect has been increased by the slits in the bottom; it creates a chimney effect which means that even more hot air gets drawn out of the machine. In my experience this is very noticeable when compared to older models: the top 2/3 of the machine gets hot, with the new MBP only the top 2cm does.

Also, the pcb is screwed in backwards so it is component|pcb|plastic keyboard|air. Both pcb and the plastic keyboard act as an insulator. The bottom plate is a much better conductor because it is component|aluminium|air and because aluminium is one of the best heat conductors we have (hence aluminium and copper heatsinks!). That means that keeping the machine vertical is actually the best way of keeping it cool. People have tested and measured it and the measurements support the theory. It doesn't seem to make much of a difference between keeping the lid closed or not though.

But I do understand vertical standing positions are huge space saver in tight workspaces, I don't think there is an immediate risk but in the long run, the extra heat that you didn't lose effectively is likely shortening the hardware lifespan, or doing oil damage onto the screen coating / keyboard+trackpad.

Horizontal position makes it more difficult to dissipate heat because most of the surfaces you place it on do not conduct heat very well and obstruct the airflow. Vertical positions do not have this issue. The only thing to watch out for is blocking the exhaust. Either get a dock that doesn't block the exhaust (the BookArc is a good example) or make sure to position the Mac with the exhaust facing upwards (then any dock will do).

The other thing is that in clamshell mode you put less strain on the GPU and thus generate less heat due to the machine only having to drive 1 display instead of 2 (at least one of which is a hidpi display requiring quite some computing power).

However, if you are continuously stressing the machine and/or stressing it for longer periods of time, it will not matter if you use the machine horizontally or vertically, closed or opened because you simply are pushing it past its limits. In other words, you have bought the wrong machine for the task. Only this will actually affect the notebooks lifespan (it probably won't last you more than 6 years).

 

[steve62388]

You should try to cycle the battery every few weeks. This will extend its life.

Similar to a mechanical device that wears out faster with heavy use, the depth of discharge (DoD) determines the cycle count of the battery. The smaller the discharge (low DoD), the longer the battery will last. If at all possible, avoid full discharges and charge the battery more often between uses. Partial discharge on Li-ion is fine. There is no memory and the battery does not need periodic full discharge cycles to prolong life. The exception may be a periodic calibration of the fuel gauge on a smart battery or intelligent device.

Source: http://www.batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

EDIT: @ZapNZs beat me to it.

 

[bartvk]

I can't think of a single reason why anyone would want to use their laptops in clamshell mode while Apple is still making great desktop machines.

Plenty of reasons, cost of course being the obvious one. There's also maintenance and backups, you get twice that cost and hassle. Plus, if you have multiple workplaces over the week, you lose your browser windows, window setup etc. with multiple desktop machines.

Except for that last point, the costs are marginal over the lifetime of the machine. But still you may prefer not to make them in the first place.

 

[shavou]

Hey guys I'm wondering if there are any issues of having my macbook pro (2018 i9) in clamshell mode when connected to an external monitor ?

The main concern is heat and ventilation related... we all know heat is a destroyer when it comes to computers. So if I plan to use it in clamshell mode ( almost 100% of the time when the laptop is connected to an external monitor), wouldn't this heat potentially cause some harm/damage over time?

Thanks

 

[CreeptoLoser]

Hey guys I'm wondering if there are any issues of having my macbook pro (2018 i9) in clamshell mode when connected to an external monitor ?

The main concern is heat and ventilation related... we all know heat is a destroyer when it comes to computers. So if I plan to use it in clamshell mode ( almost 100% of the time when the laptop is connected to an external monitor), wouldn't this heat potentially cause some harm/damage over time?

Thanks

Runs cooler standing vertically. There are Arcbook stands for this.

 

[Wags]

Wondering also. For sure would depend on set up. I would be worried about display too.

 

[LeeW]

If Apple had any concerns they would not be publishing advice on it. https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201834

People will be along to tell you it ruins the battery, it ruins the screen, it ruins your life and a puppy will die because of clamshell. I have been running MBP's for years in clamshell on a vertical stand. Never had any issues. And yes 95% of the time it's in that setup using two external monitors.

 

[shavou]

If Apple had any concerns they would not be publishing advice on it. https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201834

People will be along to tell you it ruins the battery, it ruins the screen, it ruins your life and a puppy will die because of clamshell. I have been running MBP's for years in clamshell on a vertical stand. Never had any issues. And yes 95% of the time it's in that setup using two external monitors.

Ahahahah!
Fair points here, I agree with you.
One quick question though, do you keep the MacBook with the Apple logo upside down? I am thinking this is the best way to keep the top right corner - that usually gets very hot - up in the air rather than stacked in the stand?

 

[LeeW]

I added a picture of my setup in the last post. I keep it with the Apple logo the right way up. Depends on your model, the 2018 13 inch that I have is vented on each side and on the bottom so in the vertical stand it gets plenty of space to blow the hot air away. I mean if you are hammering it the device will get hot no matter what you do.

 

[haralds]

Apple also sells the stands.

 

[ksj1]

Ahahahah!
Fair points here, I agree with you.
One quick question though, do you keep the MacBook with the Apple logo upside down? I am thinking this is the best way to keep the top right corner - that usually gets very hot - up in the air rather than stacked in the stand?

I use the Twelve South one. Logo upside down. Heat rises...