Class Action Lawsuit over Apple MB and MBP Displays?

[Mr.Gadget]

I think all LCD makers need to state what, exactly, their products will do. If they say "millions" than they need to be more specific. They SHOULD be held accountable if they are misleading folks, but that is the bugger... it is just industry lingo; but, that needs to change now... peoples' needs and expectations are growing quickly. We need to pressure manufacturers for detailed information on items like this.

 

[Brundlefly]

Why does healthcare cost so much?

Hey were not all Americans here, so stories of poor over inflated health care and insane lawsuits are very interesting to us!

 

[ergle2]

Why does healthcare cost so much?
- Drug costs
- HMO profiteering
- Doctor compensation - American doctors are simply paid more than they are elsewhere in the world. Argue the joys of the free market for employment all you want, but this is a factor in rising costs.
- Uninsured drive up overall costs with emergent care

Don't forget administration costs.

Private insurance, ~30% of costs go on various administrative layers.

Organizations like the VA, ~3% of costs go on administration.

 

[mac 2005]

This is the standard issue storyline. Someone connected to the industry in question, who feels harmed, whines about injustice.

Person in question can never, ever, cite statistics to support the argument. Only anecdotes.

If these numerous malpractice suits were frivolous, they would be thrown out long before it ever became a trial, as most civil suits are. If they have merit, they go to trial.

Malpractice outlays in a given year - which have been declining even as medical costs rise - amount to less than one-percent of our total healthcare outlays (actually less than one-half percent, I believe).

Why does healthcare cost so much?
- Drug costs
- HMO profiteering
- Doctor compensation - American doctors are simply paid more than they are elsewhere in the world. Argue the joys of the free market for employment all you want, but this is a factor in rising costs.
- Uninsured drive up overall costs with emergent care

Wow! This thread seems to have taken a turn way off topic.

How does medical malpractice and the state of healthcare in the United States relate to a class-action lawsuit against a computer company for claims it makes on the quality of its computer displays?

 

[Brundlefly]

Mac 2005

love you sig...

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."
- Benjamin Franklin

 

[hulugu]

This is great news. As a student who dropped $2500 on a MBP with a substandard display, I'm glad someone is stepping up and challenging Apple. At the very least, I want Apple to realize they can't sell poor quality products for such a high price, and at most, I'd like a replacement screen.

I know this topic is a point of contention, amongst both owners of the MBP and those who don't have one. All I have to say is, if it's come to a class action lawsuit over this issue, I hope the naysayers finally realize we're not all crazy or overly picky.

A class-action lawsuit does not make an issue suddenly real or meaningful, rather it means there's a lawyer who thinks he can make an arguement.

Also, I have a MacBook Pro and I don't understand what this even means. In my mind class-action lawsuits are for meaningful problems like toxic waste poured into the ground-water and other issues that actually matter. If Apple is supplying a mediocre product suing isn't going to change anything, they'll pay their 320 Million (of which you'll get $20), and maybe later Apple will quietly change their LCD supplier.

 

[GigaWire]

Sorry friends-

But no pro I know uses an Apple display for color accuracy. These complaints make Apple users look like a bunch of prats.

 

[ccroo]

I am not happy that my old powerbook had a better even lit screen with no problems but my mbp had problems that is less then half a year old.

I posted about this when I bought my MBP 17.

I had been using a friend's 17" Powerbook and had to give it back. Couldn't live without it so I replaced it with the new machine.

I noticed the cloudy, uneven brightness immediately. The powerbook was even from one edge of the screen to the other. In fact, the MB is like that too. I went to the Apple store and gave 2 MB's and 2 MBP's matching solid desktop colors. I then had employees and random customers look at them and asked if they saw a difference in terms of eveness of illumination. Everyone agreed the Macbook Pro looked different -- uneven, what I called "vignetting." But, Applecare essentially admitted this is what these screens look like and returning one for another would do me no good.

The screen on that 17" Powerbook was rock solid. Too bad the new screens are a step down.

I still love my MBP though.

 

[iW00t]

I posted about this when I bought my MBP 17.

I had been using a friend's 17" Powerbook and had to give it back. Couldn't live without it so I replaced it with the new machine.

I noticed the cloudy, uneven brightness immediately. The powerbook was even from one edge of the screen to the other. In fact, the MB is like that too. I went to the Apple store and gave 2 MB's and 2 MBP's matching solid desktop colors. I then had employees and random customers look at them and asked if they saw a difference in terms of eveness of illumination. Everyone agreed the Macbook Pro looked different -- uneven, what I called "vignetting." But, Applecare essentially admitted this is what these screens look like and returning one for another would do me no good.

The screen on that 17" Powerbook was rock solid. Too bad the new screens are a step down.

I still love my MBP though.

Hear hear!

The viewing angles are so narrow you cannot even take in the entire expense of the screen without colour shifts.

 

[EricNau]

America has what we call a "free market" system, wherein companies are free to produce whatever they feel like in order to try to gain profit. If the product has poor quality and is unwanted, no one buys it and the company does not make a profit. If the product IS wanted and they sell a million units, the company makes profit and continues to make the product.

That would be perfect if I owned a time machine.

The "free market" system works fine in the long-run, but for the short-term your argument holds no water.

...For example, if I spend 1000s of dollars for a computer that doesn't work properly, I can willingly stop buying from that company in the future, but for now, I'm still stuck with a $1000 doorstep.

It's not like we knew the screens were terrible and chose to buy the computer anyway. ...We bought a machine that we thought was among the best available, but instead we got a machine comprised of inferior parts (for which we payed a premium price), and now, Apple is refusing to honor their warranty.

 

[iW00t]

That story is horrifying. One, on it's face, it's ridiculous. I believe she's entirely innocent. But who cares if she's not. If a sub teacher in a classroom is intentionally using a computer to surf the Internet for pornography -- no one has alleged it was illegal pornography; just that it was pornography -- fire her, never use her in you school system again, and flag her name for background checks in the state's education system. Because, you know, she was probably she bored and stupid, but there could be some risk there. But you fire her, you don't imprison her. None of those kids were harmed by what they saw, main reason being they've *seen it before* on their own home computers.

I have three kids, a girl and two boys, and I can guarantee you, really I can, that none of them would be permanently scarred, or even temporarily scarred for a period lasting longer than one second, from seeing some porn on the Internet. I'm against pornography for ethical reasons -- mainly having to do with abuse of women, attendant drug abuse in the industry, and the wholesale degradation of human sexuality -- and we forbid the children old enough to use the computer from accessing such things, but it's not going to warp them if they just glance at it, or seek it out once or twice from curiosity. They're not going to develop some depraved porn addiction.

Oh my stars. This is just crazy. These prosecutors are crazy. Scary crazy. It's worse for society to be a scary crazy person that it is to be an occasional consumer of legal pornography.

The trouble is it is might not even be the teacher's fault. What probably happened is some spyware/adware got installed onto the computer through some flaw in IE which periodically spawns popups with ad banners.

I've seen that happened to some of my friends' and relatives' Windows machines before, it is absolutely discrete, you can be using your computer and all of a sudden a banner pops up on your machine, those who truly believes that this will lead to increased sales should be shot.

That would be perfect if I owned a time machine.

The "free market" system works fine in the long-run, but for the short-term your argument holds no water.

...For example, if I spend 1000s of dollars for a computer that doesn't work properly, I can willingly stop buying from that company in the future, but for now, I'm still stuck with a $1000 doorstep.

It's not like we knew the screens were terrible and chose to buy the computer anyway. ...We bought a machine that we thought was among the best available, but instead we got a machine comprised of inferior parts (for which we payed a premium price), and now, Apple is refusing to honor their warranty.

Actually the premium for Apple computers aren't as great as what most would make them out to be. If you compare similarly spec-ed computers from high end (Sony/Fujitsu/IBM/etc) vendors and Apple, Apple's pricing is probably comparable and in some cases even more competitive than other vendors. However those high margins Apple makes probably come from somewhere... cutting corners off components that is, and we are just seeing one more example of how they are going about it here.

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Ideas

So, for users who spent thousands of dollars on systems, and need/want a better display, what are they expected to do? Buy a new one? Do you have any better ideas?

I'm guessing both of you, along with many of the naysayers here, have not been affected by Apple's poor build quality lately (or their refusal to make repairs).

Well actually I don't have a better idea, but I'm pretty sure suing apple because you didn't have the foresight to check their displays probalby isn't the best idea. I hate how sue-happy America (and especially Europe) has become.

 

[iW00t]

Well actually I don't have a better idea, but I'm pretty sure suing apple because you didn't have the foresight to check their displays probalby isn't the best idea. I hate how sue-happy America (and especially Europe) has become.

It is a different take on legal action. I don't even care if these guys win, but if it brings this issue out in the media more and generates greater awareness amongst would-be-buyers for the MBP (and even adversely affect their sales) Apple will remember it next time when they try to pull something like this off again.

Anyone else remember the whole horizontal-lines fiasco with the final revision Powerbook G4s? Apple denied and flat out refused to do anything about those screens until big media sites like C|Net starts talking about it. If anything I see this class action suit as a very good thing.

The guys doing the suing are not out to slander Apple:
1) Just boot into Windows under bootcamp and behold, see how craptastic the Macbook Pro looks
2) It is a fact
3) Frankly I am quite sick of Apple trying to lie and get away with stuff.

 

[EricNau]

Actually the premium for Apple computers aren't as great as what most would make them out to be. If you compare similarly spec-ed computers from high end (Sony/Fujitsu/IBM/etc) vendors and Apple, Apple's pricing is probably comparable and in some cases even more competitive than other vendors. However those high margins Apple makes probably come from somewhere... cutting corners off components that is, and we are just seeing one more example of how they are going about it here.

Well, in this case I'd like to argue that Apple's quality isn't as high as the brands you mentioned, yet we are paying the same price ...thus, we are paying a premium.

Well actually I don't have a better idea, but I'm pretty sure suing apple because you didn't have the foresight to check their displays probalby isn't the best idea. I hate how sue-happy America (and especially Europe) has become.

I'll agree that America is "sue happy" in many cases, but I don't believe this is one of them. Essentially, a class-action lawsuit is the best way to tell Apple we disapprove of their recent actions, and we want change.

If you can't think of a better alternative, it may be because there isn't one.

 

[ergle2]

I went to the Apple store and gave 2 MB's and 2 MBP's matching solid desktop colors. I then had employees and random customers look at them and asked if they saw a difference in terms of eveness of illumination. Everyone agreed the Macbook Pro looked different -- uneven, what I called "vignetting." But, Applecare essentially admitted this is what these screens look like and returning one for another would do me no good.

Yeah, I've seen that too, and it sucks. Likewise, the 'grain' on the 15" models.

Unfortunately, Apple's the only game in town unless I am willing lose OS X. You can guess my feelings about that.

So, Apple's not getting cash from me for now... and hopefully the next MBP iteration will use better panels across the board, rather than the current 'lottery'.

Holding my breath? No... it's what I'd like to happen, not what I expect.

 

[iW00t]

Yeah, I've seen that too, and it sucks. Likewise, the 'grain' on the 15" models.

Unfortunately, Apple's the only game in town unless I am willing lose OS X. You can guess my feelings about that.

Bingo, the morons who go about shouting nonsense like "Nobody pointed a gun and forced you to buy a Mac" are just that, morons.

For us Mac users Apple is pretty much the only computer maker in existence.

 

[erickkoch]

Hear hear!

The viewing angles are so narrow you cannot even take in the entire expense of the screen without colour shifts.

Maybe that explains what I saw at the Apple stores and Best Buy when I was looking to buy a MBP.

I noticed that on the 17-inch MBP some areas of the screen were darker than others. As I moved my head left or right, the dark areas would lighten, and the lighter areas would darken. The 15-inch MBP's were much better but not perfect. I figured that the screen's viewing angles were different at different parts of the screen. I decided to pass and just bought a Mac Pro instead.

Maybe part of the problem here is that so many bought MBP's sight unseen. If you could actually look at a model and compare it to PC's you would have realistic expectations. If I bought the MBP I would not complain because I would have known what I was buying, a screen that appears a little uneven based on the display models.

 

[G4scott]

Doesn't everybody realize this problem will be completely nonexistent when Apple comes up with the Human Brain Interface? Not only will it take the screen out of the equation, but the eyeballs as well.

 

[ergle2]

Actually the premium for Apple computers aren't as great as what most would make them out to be. If you compare similarly spec-ed computers from high end (Sony/Fujitsu/IBM/etc) vendors and Apple, Apple's pricing is probably comparable and in some cases even more competitive than other vendors. However those high margins Apple makes probably come from somewhere... cutting corners off components that is, and we are just seeing one more example of how they are going about it here.

It's true if you compare exact specs.

However, it's not always true if you're just going off what someone wants.

Take my friend for example. She wanted a 15" laptop with a DVD writer. She got a $700 Toshiba from Best Buy.

The cheapest Mac that fulfilled those requirements is $2K. Even the MacBook that worked for her was almost double what she paid. Are the Apple machines better specced? Yes. Does it matter to her? No.

As an aside, she might have gone for a $999 MacBook with a DVD writer, but the $999 model (Amazon rebate FTW!) is combo drive...

A PC fitting my own preferences comes in between $1500-2500, so the MBP is competitive (dubious LCD quality not withstanding...).

So... it's not as simple a question as might appear. With the current "product matrix" there's a lot of gaps people can fall through...

 

[ergle2]

Bingo, the morons who go about shouting nonsense like "Nobody pointed a gun and forced you to buy a Mac" are just that, morons.

For us Mac users Apple is pretty much the only computer maker in existence.

Indeed.

It also looks bad when you check out PCs with comparable res LCDs and find they are often better -- hardly helps out with the "switcher" market.

A trip to Best Buy, CompUSA etc. will show that at least some of the PC manufacturers can get it right at similar resolutions (and higher, sometimes) so it's not an inherent limitation of the technology -- just of the panel Apple's using in some machines -- and using a (presumably) cheap panel in a $2000+ machine just not right.

 

[blipoids]

"MacBook Pro makes your ideas more enlightening, with a sharp, high-resolution screen. See blacker blacks, whiter whites, and many more colors in between on a brilliant 15.4-inch, 1440-by-900-pixel or 17-inch, 1680-by-1050-pixel digital display. Enjoy a nuanced view simply unavailable on other portables." - Apple

MacBook Pro, right? So MBP is marketed on apple website as delivering "blacker blacks, whiter whites, and many more colors in between". This easily translates into: BETTER DISPLAY!!! Not only better than what the previous generation of portables from apple had to offer, but as they say, "simply unaivalable on other portables". Now, i'm no genius but i'm smacked right in the head by all this hype, and everything makes sense. But then, when you put your PowerBook next to your MBP and you ascertain that the newer displays... well, simply put, suck! by comparison then you need to do no more in court - and certainly you can feel cheated.

Ow, just reminded: I live in a country where presently the nearest Apple store is situated some 400 miles away!!! Now you want ME to drive to them and eyeball all day some machines? I don't think so. So if i would buy something based on what they advertise then I have everyright to feel robbed.

 

[GeeYouEye]

No MBP until it's 8-bit

I always thought something was fishy with the last generation of PowerBook screens and the MBP screens (and replacement parts screens since the days of the earliest dual USB iBooks) - it always looked grainy, like when set to 256 colors, but not quite as bad. Now I know what it is. Think I'll be investing in processor and RAM upgrades to my current AlBook instead of buying a MacBook Pro. A 6-bit dithered display is unacceptable. Which is a damn shame because I really wanted an upgrade this summer.

I highly suggest anyone who's unhappy with a 6-bit MacBook Pro screen and an AppleID go to bugreport.apple.com and let them know it's not gonna fly any longer.

 

[Chosenbydestiny]

Holy crap, it's a war zone in here.

 

[matticus008]

... and lose 10% due to restock fees...

That's not the issue at hand. The restocking fee is everyone's favorite counterargument for why they should get to whine about everything. But what they're whining about is invariably less important than the fact that they entered into an agreement knowing the consequences and then decided they didn't like those consequences. It's right there, up front, clear as day. If you want to complain about restocking fees, create a thread. Otherwise, you're just confusing the issue.

Either you want a functional computer or you want an easy out from a purchase you now regret. What is the remedy? Disclosure that 8-bit notebook displays don't exist? Explanation that a user-defined setting uses an inaccurate but engrained descriptor? Waiver of the restocking fee for people actually pissed about this "revelation" that any person capable of using Google could have learned before the fact? They could have achieved that on their own.

If you're actually upset about the issue, why not name all notebook manufacturers in the complaint? Surely Dell users should be equally upset for having to suffer through the same dirty lies.

I am not talking about the hardware here, why does the software have to be hampered by crappy hardware?

Because it's their software and they can do whatever they want with it. If you don't like it, shop elsewhere, full stop. You can't always get what you want. Yes, it's a shame that OS X doesn't come on a $50 computer with a free unicorn.

The cheapest Mac that fulfilled those requirements is $2K. Even the MacBook that worked for her was almost double what she paid. Are the Apple machines better specced? Yes. Does it matter to her? No.

She solved her problem the way all customers should. She bought a machine that met her primary expectations and requirements. No one vendor offers a full line to suit every need.

Apple doesn't carry many models, but that's the nature of the ball game. Weigh what's important to you and make the best choice. Apple will never offer machines to suit every taste, and all the untapped market temptation in the world isn't going to change that.

So... it's not as simple a question as might appear. With the current "product matrix" there's a lot of gaps people can fall through...

It's exactly as simple as it appears. 15", DVD-R, Mac, under $1000 doesn't exist. It could exist, but so could a $15,000 house. You've got to live on earth, where you often have to make compromises. If the OS X part is the least important, you get a PC.

 

[luclodder]

Lot's of reading...


After reading this I have to say I am a switcher (win -> mac) since 1,5 years.
I think I'm gonna sue microsoft.

When I bought WindowsXP 5 years ago, they promised me a more secure and stable os. During installation I was remembered to these points over and over again.
Well it turned out to be more instable and evenly insecure as Win98.

So they're ads were misleading.
Until now Apple just gave me what I expected. More stability, more security. And a better color calibrated system.

Okay, just like any device you buy, they got bugs/faults.
No big deal. Apple should solve the problems correctly, wrong backlights etc... True.
If someone expected more colors from the display, that's bad. Return the money and let them buy a "better" product for their needs.
IMHO no need to sue at all.

But I am just a dutch guy, who doesn't understand the US law system at all.
I think the a lot of US citizens forgot to think/see before buying, and replaced the brainspace with the sue procedure.

Try before you buy!

just my 2 cents.