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Faith in crypto? Please, give me a break.

You can't just make stuff up and pass it off as fact.
There are many people, especially financial experts, who dont like it.
Many call it a scam.
Actually everything he said is accurate, so I don't know why you're using laughing emojis and saying he's making stuff up. Yes, faith. That's what's backing the U.S. dollar and it's well known: "the full faith and credit of the U.S. government".

Sure, there are financial experts who don't like it. There are some that do. There are also some who previously didn't like and said it was scam, and now they do like it and have said it's not a scam and that they were wrong.

We dont need a history on currency. This is different.
The fact crypto is more volatile is half the problem.
People make money from rapid gains and rapid falls.
But not everyone. Just the ones who gambled on when it was time to buy and when to sell successfully.
That's no different than investing in penny stocks and other high risk investments. It's speculation.

The massive claims you make are pie in the sky.
You cant back up PROJECTIONS that it will reach $30T in 2030. I could say it will be $300T just as easily.
Youve already argued it is volatile but then stated, without any proof, it will become less volatile.

This isnt venture capital at all. That's always risky and people do it because 1 in 10 pays off big time.
The $30T projection isn't his. Others have made those projections, and he was clear about that with the way he phrased it. Sure they could be wrong, but they could be wrong in either direction too. Not saying I agree with those projections, and generally I find that projections like that are inaccurate. Better to say the market cap will end up somewhere between the current market cap of $3.5T and your $300T number. I'm sure I'm bound to be right that way, but it's pointless conjecture.
 
NVidia and Apple actually produce tangible products that people buy.

Crypto is more like old fashioned vapourware.
You said "Value lies if something has a concrete asset sitting behind it." That is incorrect. There is no concrete asset sitting behind the value of Apple or Nvidia or almost every company in the stock market for that matter. It doesn't matter that they produce tangible products. The inventory of products they have on hand is included in their total assets and that doesn't equal even remotely close to the amount of their valuation.
 
NVidia and Apple actually produce tangible products that people buy.

Crypto is more like old fashioned vapourware.
There are all sorts of companies that fund their operations through crypto. I personally invest in two AI tokens that have very valid business models. io.net and Render are AI companies that rent people's personal GPU's to fulfill orders that are given to those companies. Where do you think things like ChatGPT get their processing power? The go to companies like Render for the horsepower to generate those pictures or answer your questions. Not everyone's like Apple, which likes to manage its own server farms.

Here's another one. I invest in Jupiter (JUP) token based on the Solana blockchain. Its business model is to run a Solana DEX (decentralized exchange) that is used for buying and selling Solana-based tokens. They make a ton of money doing that. They host a governance token, which they use to put up votes on their proposals to modify their business. Each holder of JUP gets votes based on how many tokens they own. Think of it like a shareholders' vote where your vote is based on the number of stock shares you own. For voting, you get an airdrop every three months or so that is quite lucrative.

Thousands of businesses operate off of the Ethereum blockchain on layer 1's or layer 2's, and even one on layer 3. The vast majority of NFT business is run off of the Ethereum blockchain. Say what you like about NFT's. I hate them personally, but vast amounts of NFT's are traded every year. One person here even ridiculed a buyer paying $6 million for a taped banana. The buyer is a rather eccentric guy who's worth more than everyone on this forum put together (unless Elon Musk or Bezos are on here) who buys all sorts of eclectic stuff since he has more money than he knows what to do with it. That's his choice to waste his fortune.

Some crypto are vaporware, like meme coins, which I have consistently derided as poor investments. But you're ignoring the thousands of companies that are heavily invested in crypto and run their businesses on the blockchain.

It's just wrong to say crypto is vaporware when so many businesses are operating off of it. Yes, some tokens aren't, but it's very misleading to project that onto the entire crypto market.
 
The first two Bitcoin bull runs both reached the 2.618 Fib number. The 2021 bull run only reached the 1.618 line. COVID, maybe, for why it failed to reach 2.618? We are currently well below the 1.618 line in the 2025 bull run. Will it reach it? Who knows, but given past charts, it's probably more likely than not.
Unless I'm doing something completely wrong, 1.618 was met at $102K. 2.618 is about $150K. This is done by using the Fib Retracement took in Trading View, and selecting the November 2021 high and then the November 2022 low.

That is probably part of the reason why we've seen a stall in the rally right now and the dip back below $100K. The other thing is that $100K is a psychological level as well.
 
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It was but now the underlying holding of gold is used for other financial reasons that still affect currency stablity...

I should have been clearer, sorry.

BUT the fact gold is still used to back a currency and crypto doesnt shows a marked difference ;)

Even you have to concede that ;)
Gold doesn't back the US dollar. If it did, our prices would rise by multiples. I haven't done the math but it's a LOT. There isn't nearly enough gold to back the dollar. The whole point of leaving the gold standard is that the gold is no longer backing the currency. Not even partially. The gold is a strategic reserve, meant to be used only in the event of an emergency. It's not used to redeem US dollars, which is what "backing" actually refers to.

The US dollar is entirely fiat, based on faith. As I said, soon the US government will likely be hosting a large Bitcoin reserve. It won't be backing the dollar either, but will be used just as the gold reserve or the Strategic Oil Reserve is supposed to be used for. The US government currently holds about 220,000 Bitcoin. The incoming administration wants it transferred to the Treasury and away from DHS to hold as the start of a reserve. There is also a bill before the Senate to create that reserve officially, buying 1 million Bitcoin over a five year period (about 5% of all Bitcoin) to be held indefinitely as a strategic reserve.
 
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Unless I'm doing something completely wrong, 1.618 was met at $102K. 2.618 is about $150K. This is done by using the Fib Retracement took in Trading View, and selecting the November 2021 high and then the November 2022 low.

That is probably part of the reason why we've seen a stall in the rally right now and the dip back below $100K. The other thing is that $100K is a psychological level as well.
Logarithmic charts. If you use the linear charts, they will go all the way up to the 4.236 Fib line for the first two. There's a nice technical analysis YouTube channel called Crypto Crew University that does nothing but go over crypto charts, and the occasional stock chart. That's where I was first introduced to the logarithmic chart.
 
If there are more bids than asks, the price goes up.
No it doesn't. Full stop. The relative quantity of bids and asks have zero influence on the price.

If you are selling, you have to entice someone to buy. To do that, you have to drop your price, hence the ask price. If your ask is too high, no one will buy and you miss out while other transactions drive the price lower. If you are buying, you have to entice someone to sell. To do that, you have to raise your price, hence the bid price. If your bid is too high, no one will buy and you miss out on buying that stock or crypto while other transactions from other people drive the price higher.
That is how buying and selling influence the price of whatever it is you’re trading, whether it’s crypto, stocks, bonds, real estate, currency, and so on.

I broke that into two quotes to isolate the thoughts. Here again you are describing a phenomenon without understanding the phenomenon. I think your description in the first half of the quote is, in fact, close to how crypto is traded. The word "entice" is telling. I think crypto leans heavily on enticement by various means.

Stock trading, or any trading based on an asset with inherent value, is different. It happens based on differences between price and value, not enticements to buy or sell. If an investor believes an asset is priced lower than its inherent value, they'll buy it. If they believe it's priced higher than its inherent value they'll sell it-- and sell it short if they don't currently hold any.

If there are roughly the same number of people looking to buy and to sell, then the price won’t move much.

Again, the number of buyers and sellers is totally irrelevant. What matters is the price at which one buyer and one seller can agree to transact. Nobody else matters. Until the next transaction clears.

I honestly can't understand how you can even think that's possible. I get that you're confused about value versus price, that's rather subtle for a lot of people, but the "if there's more people" argument is a weird one. I think you heard someone's short hand phrasing and took it literally?

You’re not saying anything that doesn’t apply to every market there is. I’m very familiar with technical analysis since I live on tradeview charts daily. I could tell you about moving averages, Bollinger bands, RSI, MACD, stochastic RSI, Elliott wave, Fibonacci numbers, trend lines, and dozens of other technical analysis tools. All of these apply in both the stock and crypto markets. There really isn’t any difference in how people behave in crypto and in stocks.

The way you talk about these things is the same as the way you talk about crypto terms-- you're aware of them, but not clear on exactly what they mean and how they work. It's like knowing how to use a computer versus knowing how one works.

Technical trading tools are rules of thumb, they aren't the underlying process. It's an effort to use history as a guide to the future, which is an unreliable guide. Larry Summers used to call it ketchup economics: you get caught up with whether this bottle of ketchup is half the price of that bottle which is twice as big, and whether todays price is less than or more than yesterday's price, but never bother to ask if the prices you're comparing to make sense in any fundamental way to begin with.

People in finance smarter than both of us put together disagree with you. BlackRock, Fidelity, Ark Invest, you name it. Those huge multi-trillion dollar investment houses all love crypto and buy and sell billions of dollars worth every few days. If crypto has a reckoning, the other markets will go down with it. Say all the electrical power generation was destroyed by a nuclear war and EMP, taking down all the computers that handle crypto since all crypto are on computers. None of us are going to care if our Nvidia stock is worth $0 or $1,000 or if our Bitcoin went to zero since none of it would mean anything anymore. All of us would be bartering for food.
Are these the people who swore up and down that no one ever defaults on their mortgage and that we were in a new age of economics in 2007? They're no smarter than either of us, they're chasing short term profits-- they're getting their nut, the rest of us be damned.

As for the EMP stuff, I've no idea what you're talking about. The crypto market can collapse with the power on just fine. One day, someone will sell, then another person, and then another. The market will be so leveraged that panic will ensue and it will be a race to the bottom. Yes it will take other markets with it, just like any financial crisis does-- the mortgage crisis took out markets that were completely unrelated to real estate. It's going to be bad for lot of people.
 
Logarithmic charts. If you use the linear charts, they will go all the way up to the 4.236 Fib line for the first two. There's a nice technical analysis YouTube channel called Crypto Crew University that does nothing but go over crypto charts, and the occasional stock chart. That's where I was first introduced to the logarithmic chart.
I got essentially the same results with log and linear. Here's a screenshot:

Screenshot 2024-12-06 at 8.58.54 PM.png
 
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Wow, what hubris where you dismiss Jerome Powell.

Who dismissed Jerome Powell? I simply said not to take his words out of context to suit your own purpose.

You also discount El Salvador earning 114% on the Bitcoin they bought only three years ago. Are you earning almost 40% per year on your investments? They are not a rich country, but you brush away $333 million as if it’s nothing to people who live on very little compared to Americans. Are there any investments you actually like? Physical cash stuffed under the mattress sounds like your speed.
Clutching at pearls? That's the line of argument now? $330M is like 10% of their foreign exchange reserves.

Yes, I discount earning 114% as a point measurement of a volatile market. Were you here warning people when their bitcoin investment had fallen in half. Most Salvadorans don't want the government investing in crypto, fewer of them use bitcoin day to day.

When I hear governments use phrases like "buy the dip", it sends chills down my spine. I don't want day traders running national economies. Governments shouldn't gamble with taxpayer money.
 
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Unless I'm doing something completely wrong, 1.618 was met at $102K. 2.618 is about $150K. This is done by using the Fib Retracement took in Trading View, and selecting the November 2021 high and then the November 2022 low.

That is probably part of the reason why we've seen a stall in the rally right now and the dip back below $100K. The other thing is that $100K is a psychological level as well.
Whoops. One correction. The second line is not 2.618. It is 2.36.
 
The US dollar has no intrinsic value. Companies earn all of their cash flow in… US dollars (American companies), which has no intrinsic value. Hmm, Give me all of your dollars since you eschew anything without real value.

There are three types of economies. There are the ones based on the gold standard. There are ones based on fiat currency. And there are ones based on a peg to either the dollar or a basket of fiat currencies. There are no major economies that are on the gold standard. All of them are on fiat currencies, which have zero intrinsic value, yet we all bust our behinds for over 40 years to earn that which has no intrinsic value. Yet you use that as an argument against crypto?

I’ll ask you this question. What is a dollar worth? Don’t use the word dollar or cents in your answer since both are fiat.

A dollar is a means of exchange. I can use it as a way to convert my dollar worth of labor into a dollar worth of stuff. Nobody goes around trying to buy up all the dead presidents for incredible premiums.
 
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Who dismissed Jerome Powell? I simply said not to take his words out of context to suit your own purpose.
No, you ignored what he said to ignore that Bitcoin is a commodity and not a currency. It does not compare to the dollar, but rather to gold. That is where you dismissed what he said. You could have left it as, "I simply said not to take his words." I did not use it out of context.

Clutching at pearls? That's the line of argument now? $330M is like 10% of their foreign exchange reserves.

Yes, I discount earning 114% as a point measurement of a volatile market. Were you here warning people when their bitcoin investment had fallen in half. Most Salvadorans don't want the government investing in crypto, fewer of them use bitcoin day to day.

When I hear governments use phrases like "buy the dip", it sends chills down my spine. I don't want day traders running national economies. Governments shouldn't gamble with taxpayer money.
Who said anything about clutching at pearls? I'd never use that phrase since I hate it. You're dismissing that $330 million is a lot for a country like El Salvador. Their Bitcoin reserve now sits at over $600 million, which is not chump change for them. It's a daily hiccup for a country like the US.

You must have missed all the times I said that any Bitcoin held for at least four years is in the black for every single point in Bitcoin's history. If you're trading short term, you're a lot more likely to lose money, and it doesn't matter what you're investing in.
 
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A dollar is a means of exchange. I can use it as a way to convert my dollar worth of labor into a dollar worth of stuff. Nobody goes around trying to buy up all the dead presidents for incredible premiums.
I believe there's one NFL player who has it in his contract to be paid in Bitcoin. I'd look it up but that story went around a few years back. Tesla and the Dallas Mavericks took payment in Bitcoin and/or Dogecoin. Bitcoin could be used as a means of exchange, but it's a poor one, as I'm now stating for the third time (high fees, slow transactions). It's closer to gold than to the dollar, which is exactly why Jerome Powell and others deem it a commodity.

Ah, here we go. NFL players who took payments for their salary or partial salary in Bitcoin: Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Odell Beckham Jr., Trevor Lawrence, Saquon Barkley, Sean Culkin, and Aaron Jones. I got that from an article from 2021. That list has probably changed a lot, especially the retired ones.
 
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Gold doesn't back the US dollar. If it did, our prices would rise by multiples. I haven't done the math but it's a LOT. There isn't nearly enough gold to back the dollar. The whole point of leaving the gold standard is that the gold is no longer backing the currency. Not even partially. The gold is a strategic reserve, meant to be used only in the event of an emergency. It's not used to redeem US dollars, which is what "backing" actually refers to.

The US dollar is entirely fiat, based on faith. As I said, soon the US government will likely be hosting a large Bitcoin reserve. It won't be backing the dollar either, but will be used just as the gold reserve or the Strategic Oil Reserve is supposed to be used for. The US government currently holds about 220,000 Bitcoin. The incoming administration wants it transferred to the Treasury and away from DHS to hold as the start of a reserve. There is also a bill before the Senate to create that reserve officially, buying 1 million Bitcoin over a five year period (about 5% of all Bitcoin) to be held indefinitely as a strategic reserve.
incoming government... I thought you were trying to convince me this was good ;)
 
Who dismissed Jerome Powell? I simply said not to take his words out of context to suit your own purpose.


Clutching at pearls? That's the line of argument now? $330M is like 10% of their foreign exchange reserves.

Yes, I discount earning 114% as a point measurement of a volatile market. Were you here warning people when their bitcoin investment had fallen in half. Most Salvadorans don't want the government investing in crypto, fewer of them use bitcoin day to day.

When I hear governments use phrases like "buy the dip", it sends chills down my spine. I don't want day traders running national economies. Governments shouldn't gamble with taxpayer money.
Ah it's like watching a mutual admiration society of gamblers egging each other on with our two chief protagonists... :)

Spinning aint winning.

No matter what they say, they can't effectively argue that it isnt a gamble not backed by real world anything that relies on new suckers joining the pool to inflate the price.

That's all it is.

Perhaps I have a bridge I should offer them... :)
 
I believe there's one NFL player who has it in his contract to be paid in Bitcoin. I'd look it up but that story went around a few years back. Tesla and the Dallas Mavericks took payment in Bitcoin and/or Dogecoin. Bitcoin could be used as a means of exchange, but it's a poor one, as I'm now stating for the third time (high fees, slow transactions). It's closer to gold than to the dollar, which is exactly why Jerome Powell and others deem it a commodity.

Ah, here we go. NFL players who took payments for their salary or partial salary in Bitcoin: Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Odell Beckham Jr., Trevor Lawrence, Saquon Barkley, Sean Culkin, and Aaron Jones. I got that from an article from 2021. That list has probably changed a lot, especially the retired ones.
There was a fish and chip shop in Yeppoon Qld that took BitCoin as well... maybe it was more for a joke to put on a sign though as this was years ago.

It proves nothing using these examples.

Not every NFL player is the smartest out there - plenty of managers grew fat off clients who didnt understand finances ;)
 
I believe there's one NFL player who has it in his contract to be paid in Bitcoin. I'd look it up but that story went around a few years back. Tesla and the Dallas Mavericks took payment in Bitcoin and/or Dogecoin. Bitcoin could be used as a means of exchange, but it's a poor one, as I'm now stating for the third time (high fees, slow transactions). It's closer to gold than to the dollar, which is exactly why Jerome Powell and others deem it a commodity.

Ah, here we go. NFL players who took payments for their salary or partial salary in Bitcoin: Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Odell Beckham Jr., Trevor Lawrence, Saquon Barkley, Sean Culkin, and Aaron Jones. I got that from an article from 2021. That list has probably changed a lot, especially the retired ones.
Plenty of famous people hocking their name for dodgy things too... we get tv ads from Mark Wahlberg for SportsBet.
It's sad when celebrity names sell gambling...
 
20 actioned my post that it is gambling.

18 Liked or Loved.
2 disagreed.

Guess who? ;)

That's 90% of MR who bothered to react...
Hard sell to convince us it is legit.
 
No it doesn't. Full stop. The relative quantity of bids and asks have zero influence on the price.
Yes it does. You have zero understanding of supply and demand. The more demand for a stock, the higher the price. The less demand for a stock, the lower the price.

I broke that into two quotes to isolate the thoughts. Here again you are describing a phenomenon without understanding the phenomenon. I think your description in the first half of the quote is, in fact, close to how crypto is traded. The word "entice" is telling. I think crypto leans heavily on enticement by various means.

Stock trading, or any trading based on an asset with inherent value, is different. It happens based on differences between price and value, not enticements to buy or sell. If an investor believes an asset is priced lower than its inherent value, they'll buy it. If they believe it's priced higher than its inherent value they'll sell it-- and sell it short if they don't currently hold any.
The word "entice" works for both the stock market and the crypto markets. Yet again, you have no idea how any of these transactions work, which is why I went into such painstaking detail. Here we go again. When there are more buyers than sellers, there are more bid/market buy prices than ask/market sell prices. When those prices match, the trade executes. Ever notice that when you buy, you almost always get the higher of the bid/ask prices and you get the lower when you sell? That's because your order is creating pressure on the market to change the price. You have to convince someone else your price is worth it, so you either have to bid it up or ask it down to get someone else to agree. That is why the number of bid and asks influence the price. If you place a market buy or market sell order, the exchange will do the negotiating for you and give you the best price left among those who have placed an opposite order. If you refuse to negotiate with an unreasonable bid or ask price, your trade won't execute because you weren't able to convince someone else to meet your price. In order to excute that transaction, you'll have to come down or go up on the price before someone else will agree. That's how price pressure works to change prices.

But when perception of the value of the stock changes, that means people on one side will hold out for a better price. So if there are more bids than asks, the price by necessity will go up because there aren't enough sellers willing to sell. Up the price and more sellers come into the market to match those bids. That is the identical method by which crypto exchanges work and the stock markets work when it comes to setting prices. Nobody cares about the difference between inherent values and perceived values. The only thing that matters is perceived values when it comes to making a trade. I can think something should be worth $1 because some analyst says it is, but if there isn't someone else who thinks it's worth a dollar, my trade won't go through. I have to raise my price before a seller would agree to complete that transaction.

Why you think it works any differently in a crypto market, that remains a mystery because the mechanisms are identical. Seeing as I've got decades of experience in trading stocks, and even options, and a few years of trading cryptos, I can easily see how both are done, and they're identical in every way when it comes to trading. Have you ever visited a crypto exchange like Coinbase and tried to execute a trade? You'll find out very quickly, it looks just like what you see when trading stocks. If you oppose how trading works in crypto, you should stay out of stocks because it works the same way.

Since this is about the fifth time I've had to explain such an elementary process to you, I won't bother again. If you continue to try to argue that the sky is green, then its your prerogative to believe that.

Technical trading tools are rules of thumb, they aren't the underlying process. It's an effort to use history as a guide to the future, which is an unreliable guide. Larry Summers used to call it ketchup economics: you get caught up with whether this bottle of ketchup is half the price of that bottle which is twice as big, and whether todays price is less than or more than yesterday's price, but never bother to ask if the prices you're comparing to make sense in any fundamental way to begin with.
While I agree with everything you've said here, which I've also said repeatedly, I do see where your argument falls down. You think there are no fundamentals in crypto. That's where you're wrong. Everyone does some fundamental analysis in figuring out what to buy. Quality matters for safety, which is why I don't push meme coins and other such nonsensical tokens while encouraging those who want more safety to stick with the blue chips. That itself is an elementary form of fundamental analysis. Sometimes it involves digging into cash flow of the companies behind a crypto, such as the AI companies I've invested in (their crypto tokens). Those who invest in meme coins are purely speculating. That's why you should only use money you can think of as gone already when making that investment. I'll use the example of that HAWK token that was recently revealed as a scam that will likely put some people in jail. It's a meme coin. If you're upset you lost all of your money in that, you shouldn't be since you should expect to lose it all. That's the nature of useless meme coins. Invest in them with your mad money at your peril.

Fundamental analysis is what you use to determine WHAT to buy and sell. Technical analysis is what you use to determine WHEN to buy and sell. TI is not the end-all, be-all because charts will often disagree. That's when you have to find charts you trust and to examine many of them to time a transaction. For instance, many use the Pi Cycle chart to determine when the crypto bull run is over for that cycle. That indicator has predicted every top in every bull run. Once the indicator top flashes, you have roughly two to three days to get out of Bitcoin before it starts going down. You have a few additional days to sell your alt coins. If you plan to hold Bitcoin for the long term, that's fine since the next bull run will likely more than make up for any unrealized losses that will happen during the bear market that tends to last for a year to 18 months before the bull runs again.

Is it foolproof? So far, it has been 100% reliable, but always rely on other indicators as well before deciding. Will it continue to be foolproof? Anyone who says yes is a fool. It's a guide that can cause people to make mistakes. But it is a significantly better guide than guesswork. I don't do guesswork.

We both agree on fundamental and technical analysis, yet you want to be hostile about that agreement for some reason. I will tell you when I agree with you, as I did above.

Are these the people who swore up and down that no one ever defaults on their mortgage and that we were in a new age of economics in 2007? They're no smarter than either of us, they're chasing short term profits-- they're getting their nut, the rest of us be damned.
Probably not the same people. Some people did say that, but experts aren't always reliable. It's become a joke that people like Jim Cramer and Paul Krugman are always wrong in every prediction. Saying they're the same people is just a straw man argument.

As for the EMP stuff, I've no idea what you're talking about. The crypto market can collapse with the power on just fine. One day, someone will sell, then another person, and then another. The market will be so leveraged that panic will ensue and it will be a race to the bottom. Yes it will take other markets with it, just like any financial crisis does-- the mortgage crisis took out markets that were completely unrelated to real estate. It's going to be bad for lot of people.
We've already had multiple bear markets where prices have fallen by 80% or more. Life goes on and the next bull goes off like clockwork. If you're smart, you can take advantage of it in both bull and bear markets. Will it always go in four year cycles? Probably not, because once the market becomes ingrained in society and a majority hold crypto, then I assume the cycles will stop and it'll operate just like all the other mature markets do. Yes, I know you and all the cynics will say "IF it becomes prevalent enough" rather than when. As trends go, it points towards that Magic 8 Ball saying "Yes". But nothing in iife is certain but the usual death and taxes.
 
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20 actioned my post that it is gambling.

18 Liked or Loved.
2 disagreed.

Guess who? ;)

That's 90% of MR who bothered to react...
Hard sell to convince us it is legit.
Ah yes, an unscientific poll for an asset class only 5% of Americans are invested in. That's when combatting FUD is the most important. People who don't know about crypto probably do agree with you because people like you have prejudiced them against it.

As for people yay or nay on this, it looks like it's roughly 2 against 2. Even, for people who bother commenting on it. How's that for an unscientific poll?

EDIT: Take that same poll in South Korea, one of the countries most heavily invested in crypto. Just recently there were news stories where crypto was trading in heavier volume than its own stock market. That poll of yours would flip.
 
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There was a fish and chip shop in Yeppoon Qld that took BitCoin as well... maybe it was more for a joke to put on a sign though as this was years ago.

It proves nothing using these examples.

Not every NFL player is the smartest out there - plenty of managers grew fat off clients who didnt understand finances ;)
The point is there are people who are paid in Bitcoin and you can spend Bitcoin to buy things. It's not efficient though because the Bitcoin transaction costs are higher and the transaction settlement times are longer. There are other cryptos that are much better for spending. Bitcoin is better as a store of value.
 
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