Not arguing that there aren't scams. There are. That doesn't make all of crypto a scam. There are plenty of scams in traditional stock investments too. Maybe you should stop investing there too.Hawk Tuah crypto scam died in a day...
It surged to $500 million and then suddenly lost more than 95% of its value within hours.
That's a bit hard to swallow
Not the first celeb either. Kim Kardashian was fined more than $1M in 2021 and Logan Paul now accused of promoting coins without disclosing his interest.
Scammers targeting get rich quick gamblers using their celebrity...
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Coinbase Onramp Now Supports Buying Crypto With Apple Pay
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I didnt say all footballer werent smart... many are smart enough to use their profiles for jobs after they finish sport.
Or have good managers who are smart...
You are trying to find new investors... legitimizing crypto and pretending it has value.
The whole industry relies on people believing that. It drops when that beliefs stops.
You havent proved a thing.
I'm also not closed minded, I've read what you put up, but I refuse to let your arguments stand unchallenged and allow other people to be conned.
Maybe you should think ahead a bit. And, yes, Bitcoin miners help stabilize the grid.
How is renewable energy stabilizing the grid for Bitcoin mining?
Discover how Bitcoin mining is evolving into a sustainable practice with the integration of renewable energy sources.
cryptoforinnovation.org
I guess you don't know as much as you think you do.
I'm not trying to find new investors. I never tried to sell Bitcoin to anyone. You and others have made false statements and spouted misinformation about Bitcoin and crypto. I've only proven you wrong. Don't want to invest in Bitcoin? Fine, don't. But don't spread false information and lies about something you clearly don't know enough about and don't understand.
You haven't challenged any of the actual data and facts I provided. I proved there is less illicit use of crypto than fiat and you continue to say it's only use is for scams and by criminals. You're only response to repeat the same false information and opinions you have about it.
Let me tell you a statistic that I found out yesterday. In all three previous Bitcoin cycles, the number of weeks from the bottom of the market to the top of the market has been exactly 152 weeks. Repeat, in all three prior 4-year cycles, it took 152 weeks to go from the bottom of the market to the top. If we were to extrapolate that to the current Bitcoin cycle, that would place the top of the market on the week of October 20, 2025. If Bitcoin were gambling, you wouldn't have cycles like that that are so repetitive and so easy to predict. Let's come back after October 20, 2025 to find out if we were gambling or making money hand over fist. I'd like to see something like that in the stock market, but that doesn't exist.Ah it's like watching a mutual admiration society of gamblers egging each other on with our two chief protagonists...
Spinning aint winning.
No matter what they say, they can't effectively argue that it isnt a gamble not backed by real world anything that relies on new suckers joining the pool to inflate the price.
That's all it is.
Perhaps I have a bridge I should offer them...
Then I have a bridge to offer you because you like to believe propaganda.
Did you check out the video? He explains the exact settings near, but not right at the beginning of the video. I just followed what he did.
The previous all-time high is at the 1 Fib number. The bottom is zero.
I stopped buying a while ago because I follow the charts. I bought most of my bitcoin this cycle when it was around $23K to $29K because I was following the charts. The bottom of the market was at $16K, so I did miss the bottom by a little, but nobody ever really hits the exact top or bottom, plus I was buying weekly and not all at once. I stopped buying when Bitcoin was in the $40K's. When the top of the market hits, I sell a decent percentage of my Bitcoin ETF's, but all of my alt coins will end up being sold. One of the tenets of successful investing is to take your profits. I don't follow the herd and buy when the market is at its top. That's when you play contrarian and sell like any other experienced investor.
I would't suggest buying anything once Bitcoin has hit phase 4 of the current cycle. You do most of your buying in Phase 1 of any cycle and Phase 3 at the latest, but Phase 3 profits will be limited. When the bear market hits sometime in 2025 (the charts will tell us when), I will buy back in at the bottom of the next cycle. These are the sensible things you do no matter what you're investing in. I actually look forward to the next bear market in the cycle because I will have cashed out much of my profits and will be ready to buy back in at the market low.
As for people operating purely on emotion, it sounds like you're pretty angry about it all since you sound like a conspiracy theorist. The largest group of Bitcoin miners are in Texas while China banned mining a couple of years ago in a failed attempt to crush crypto. At one point, they tried banning ownership of crypto. It didn't succeed. Many of those Chinese miners moved to Texas and a few other countries.
I go into investing as cool as you can possibly be with no emotion. You follow your charts and do what they say, and that's when the profits come. I've already earned enough profits this cycle to buy a large home on 40 acres in middle America or an average house in California. Just my Dogecoin profits alone are enough to buy me a nice luxury car. I'm not going to because I'm going to reinvest almost everything I make at the proper time, and the charts will tell me when. By the time this current bull cycle ends, I expect to have enough to find something nice alongside Lake Tahoe, on the Nevada side, of course. If the top doesn't reach the price I expect it to, I'll simply sell at that top and wait for the end of the next bear to buy back in.
Enjoy your cash stuffed under your mattress since that seems to be your risk tolerance.
Wow, talk about straw man arguments. What do those things have to do with the price of tea in China?
Yes, the miners pay their electric bill, just as I did. I was mining Ethereum myself for a few years until it switched to Proof of Stake and away from Proof of Work. I ended up mining on 18 GPU's and paid my electricity costs at about 11.5 cents per kilowatt hour, which was my pre-inflation cost. I didn't bother with Bitcoin mining because those require very loud ASICs, which I didn't want to suffer through because I was mining out of my house. Think jackhammering outside your door 24/7. That's why I didn't get into Bitcoin mining. I paid my taxes accordingly for the Ethereum I mined and deducted the costs of my GPU purchases on my tax return. I set up an LLC just for this reason. These are things all businesses do.
Why does it matter that electricity costs exist? It's not a significant amount of energy used nationwide. Companies with stocks use electricity, too. Nobody ever cared about that. Why be selective?
No, I didn't use that as a way to show a football player is smart. It was in response to someone saying that no one accepts Bitcoin as a method of payment. I used some football players as an example along with Tesla and the Dallas Mavericks organization, the latter two which accepted Bitcoin and/or Dogecoin for payment. Why did I use football players? It's for the simple fact that I remembered a news story from a few years ago, not that there was anything special about their profession.
The NY City mayor was recorded saying that people criticized him for taking his first few paychecks in Bitcoin and that people laughed at him. He replied something to the effect of "who's laughing now?" I saw that video just yesterday.
As for being a scam, it's incumbent on the accuser to provide the evidence, which none of you have. What I've done is say that all the criticisms made by those against crypto are also valid against the stock market and every other investment vehicle that exists, such as needing new investors for the market to rise. What you use as a criticism of crypto in this post is also true of the stock market. Are you invested in stocks? If so, you're participating in a market that requires new investors, or more accurately, new money for the stock market to go up. Stocks don't magically go up without people injecting new money into the market. Yet you seem to not have a problem with it with regards to the stock market but consider it a scam for the crypto market.
Last edited:
Yes, it happens in every market. I've been scammed myself on two meme coins, SCBM and SAFE. Both went to zero. I also invested in a couple of other meme coins that just went to zero without being scams because they went out of business. Oh well. I've warned repeatedly that people should go into meme coins assuming that the money will be lost and if they want to actually make money, they should stick with the blue chips. I mentioned HAWK myself earlier in this thread. Using it again does nothing to forward your arguments.Hawk Tuah crypto scam died in a day...
It surged to $500 million and then suddenly lost more than 95% of its value within hours.
That's a bit hard to swallow
Not the first celeb either. Kim Kardashian was fined more than $1M in 2021 and Logan Paul now accused of promoting coins without disclosing his interest.
Scammers targeting get rich quick gamblers using their celebrity...
The big players in the investment community stick with Bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana, and a few other top 10 coins. They don't mess around with meme coins. As I've also mentioned before, I exempt Dogecoin from that because it's the original meme coin started as a joke that became a mature coin with a sizable market cap in the tens of billions. I said in an earlier post that I've gotten enough profits from Dogecoin this cycle to buy a nice luxury car. Some projections have it going anywhere from $1 to $3 this cycle. It's at 46 cents right now. I bought most of mine at 5 cents with an average of about 15 cents. I do think it could reach $1, but if it doesn't, there's always next cycle.
I've done some options contracts myself doing mostly covered call options. I lost a fortune in one day when Iraq invaded Kuwait. That was quite painful. But life goes on to the next investment. But I've never considered stock option trading to be a scam. It's just a very high risk investment that could easily make huge profits or go belly up.
Last edited:
Here's a summary since people have probably gotten exhausted or just stopped reading, so I'll probably stop monitoring this thread:
1. Is crypto safe? Answer, it depends on what you invest in. If it's meme coins, no, it's not safe at all. If it's the top 10, aka the blue chips, then it's reasonably safe as long as you are responsible in your investing. Follow the charts and not the herd and stay contrarian without emotion. Trade as little as possible and think long term instead of going for the quick buck.
2. Is crypto a pyramid scheme? Answer, no. For the largest coins, they trade mostly in centralized exchanges (CEX), e.g. Coinbase or Binance, that operate in the same way the NYSE operates in all the important ways. Many tokens can usually be found on decentralized exchanges (DEX), such as Uniswap, Pancakeswap, or Jupiter where you trade one crypto for another. To facilitate that, there are many stable coins that maintain a 1:1 value to the US dollar (or other currency) with the major ones being USDT (aka Tether) and USDC (aka USD coin). The major CEX's will follow KYC (Know Your Customer) rules to ensure security and provide tax documents at the proper time, just like most brokerages.
3. Is crypto riskier than stocks in general? Answer, yes, because of the size of the market. The entire size of the crypto market is similar to the market cap of Apple, a single company in a vast stock market. By definition, it is more volatile and carries a higher risk. Crypto is still in its infancy, being only 16 years old and may not be for the risk averse.
4. Is crypto a scam? Answer, it depends on what you invest in. If you're solely investing in meme coins, then the probability is high you will lose money. They have made millionaires overnight, but only if you're incredibly lucky. It is equivalent to buying a lottery ticket. Expect to lose your money but be surprised if you don't. Most meme coins go to zero at some point, but typically due to lack of interest. There are the occasional rug pull scams where the token either fails to reach the exchange or the creators of the token sell their initial supplies at the token's IPO, driving it to near zero. If you're investing in the top quality cryptos, unequivocally no as all the big investment houses are in the process of going all-in on crypto, beginning with Bitcoin and Ethereum and moving to other coins. The SEC has approved spot ETF's (Exchange tradable funds) backing Bitcoin and Ethereum with applications being made for Solana ETF's and other top coins. There are also Bitcoin Futures ETF's. ETF's are alternatives for investors who do not want to maintain their own crypto wallets.
5. Fundamentally, do crypto coins have any assets backing them? Answer, it varies a great deal. Nothing backs up meme coins and many little known alt coins. For many coins and tokens, there are substantive businesses behind them that have business plans that can be examined in detail. Many of those businesses use crypto as their initial funding mechanism instead of a stock IPO. For instance, I invest in tokens by two AI companies that provide infrastructure for generative AI in very similar ways NiceHash does. Many layer 1 blockchains support thousands of businesses that build themselves on the blockchain. Most of those businesses built themselves on the Ethereum layer one or layer two blockchains with an example of a layer 2 being Base (built on Ethereum), a chain backed by Coinbase, a large company on the NYSE. A solid business example of a Base token is Aerodrome Finance (AERO), a business finance company providing liquidity to the markets. Ondo Finance (ONDO) is a major RWA (real world asset) firm built on the Ethereum blockchain. Many businesses are beginning to build themselves on Bitcoin, Polygon, and Cardano with other coins being used to a much smaller degree. Many NFT traders operate off of Ethereum and an equivalent is building on Bitcoin, called Ordinals. One upcoming layer 1 blockchain is SUI. One of the older blockchains is Binance Coin (BNB), backed by a huge international exchange, Binance.
6. Can crypto be used as a currency? Answer, yes and no but mostly no. It vastly depends on the coin. To be a good currency requires speedy transactions, stability of the blockchain, and low fees. Dogecoin makes for a good currency, but Bitcoin does not since it suffers from slow transactions and high fees. Ethereum makes for a horrendous currency with fees often topping $100/transactions while averaging $30-50/transaction and sometimes glacial speed. Solana could with its lightning fast transactions and negligible fees, but has a stability problem, going down for hours on occasion. Once Solana fixes its stability issues, which the next major update promises to do, then Solana could become the best possible currency alternative in my book, if the stability fix works. Most cryptos do not make for good currencies since most suffer deficiencies from one or more of the three requirements above. Monero is known as the privacy coin where transaction records are not visible on the Internet. One interesting thing about coins like Monero or VerusCoin is that they can be CPU mined. The rest are completely transparent with all transactions easily readable on the Internet. That allows authorities to track down potential criminal activity.
7. Are Bitcoin and other crypto legally a security or currency? Answer, no in the US, despite the full name of the market being "cryptocurrency." Multiple courts in the US have ruled that crypto is not a security or currency but is rather a commodity. The SEC's official position is that crypto is a commodity, though I've pointed out inconsistencies in its actions. Because crypto is not a security, it is not subject to various laws such as the wash sale rule. The main difference in crypto's classification determines what laws apply to the crypto market.
1. Is crypto safe? Answer, it depends on what you invest in. If it's meme coins, no, it's not safe at all. If it's the top 10, aka the blue chips, then it's reasonably safe as long as you are responsible in your investing. Follow the charts and not the herd and stay contrarian without emotion. Trade as little as possible and think long term instead of going for the quick buck.
2. Is crypto a pyramid scheme? Answer, no. For the largest coins, they trade mostly in centralized exchanges (CEX), e.g. Coinbase or Binance, that operate in the same way the NYSE operates in all the important ways. Many tokens can usually be found on decentralized exchanges (DEX), such as Uniswap, Pancakeswap, or Jupiter where you trade one crypto for another. To facilitate that, there are many stable coins that maintain a 1:1 value to the US dollar (or other currency) with the major ones being USDT (aka Tether) and USDC (aka USD coin). The major CEX's will follow KYC (Know Your Customer) rules to ensure security and provide tax documents at the proper time, just like most brokerages.
3. Is crypto riskier than stocks in general? Answer, yes, because of the size of the market. The entire size of the crypto market is similar to the market cap of Apple, a single company in a vast stock market. By definition, it is more volatile and carries a higher risk. Crypto is still in its infancy, being only 16 years old and may not be for the risk averse.
4. Is crypto a scam? Answer, it depends on what you invest in. If you're solely investing in meme coins, then the probability is high you will lose money. They have made millionaires overnight, but only if you're incredibly lucky. It is equivalent to buying a lottery ticket. Expect to lose your money but be surprised if you don't. Most meme coins go to zero at some point, but typically due to lack of interest. There are the occasional rug pull scams where the token either fails to reach the exchange or the creators of the token sell their initial supplies at the token's IPO, driving it to near zero. If you're investing in the top quality cryptos, unequivocally no as all the big investment houses are in the process of going all-in on crypto, beginning with Bitcoin and Ethereum and moving to other coins. The SEC has approved spot ETF's (Exchange tradable funds) backing Bitcoin and Ethereum with applications being made for Solana ETF's and other top coins. There are also Bitcoin Futures ETF's. ETF's are alternatives for investors who do not want to maintain their own crypto wallets.
5. Fundamentally, do crypto coins have any assets backing them? Answer, it varies a great deal. Nothing backs up meme coins and many little known alt coins. For many coins and tokens, there are substantive businesses behind them that have business plans that can be examined in detail. Many of those businesses use crypto as their initial funding mechanism instead of a stock IPO. For instance, I invest in tokens by two AI companies that provide infrastructure for generative AI in very similar ways NiceHash does. Many layer 1 blockchains support thousands of businesses that build themselves on the blockchain. Most of those businesses built themselves on the Ethereum layer one or layer two blockchains with an example of a layer 2 being Base (built on Ethereum), a chain backed by Coinbase, a large company on the NYSE. A solid business example of a Base token is Aerodrome Finance (AERO), a business finance company providing liquidity to the markets. Ondo Finance (ONDO) is a major RWA (real world asset) firm built on the Ethereum blockchain. Many businesses are beginning to build themselves on Bitcoin, Polygon, and Cardano with other coins being used to a much smaller degree. Many NFT traders operate off of Ethereum and an equivalent is building on Bitcoin, called Ordinals. One upcoming layer 1 blockchain is SUI. One of the older blockchains is Binance Coin (BNB), backed by a huge international exchange, Binance.
6. Can crypto be used as a currency? Answer, yes and no but mostly no. It vastly depends on the coin. To be a good currency requires speedy transactions, stability of the blockchain, and low fees. Dogecoin makes for a good currency, but Bitcoin does not since it suffers from slow transactions and high fees. Ethereum makes for a horrendous currency with fees often topping $100/transactions while averaging $30-50/transaction and sometimes glacial speed. Solana could with its lightning fast transactions and negligible fees, but has a stability problem, going down for hours on occasion. Once Solana fixes its stability issues, which the next major update promises to do, then Solana could become the best possible currency alternative in my book, if the stability fix works. Most cryptos do not make for good currencies since most suffer deficiencies from one or more of the three requirements above. Monero is known as the privacy coin where transaction records are not visible on the Internet. One interesting thing about coins like Monero or VerusCoin is that they can be CPU mined. The rest are completely transparent with all transactions easily readable on the Internet. That allows authorities to track down potential criminal activity.
7. Are Bitcoin and other crypto legally a security or currency? Answer, no in the US, despite the full name of the market being "cryptocurrency." Multiple courts in the US have ruled that crypto is not a security or currency but is rather a commodity. The SEC's official position is that crypto is a commodity, though I've pointed out inconsistencies in its actions. Because crypto is not a security, it is not subject to various laws such as the wash sale rule. The main difference in crypto's classification determines what laws apply to the crypto market.
You said something along this line previously and I forgot to correct you. Courts and the SEC have not ruled that crypto is not a security.
Courts have ruled that some third-party token transactions are not securities transactions or securities contracts. However, the same token could be sold in a first-second party transaction or contract and be considered a security. This ruling was most notable with XRP.
The SEC, on the other hand, has said Bitcoin is a commodity, but has not stated any other crypto is a commodity, including Ethereum. The SEC has refused to state clearly whether it considers Ethereum to be a security or commodity. The SEC also maintains that there are many cryptocurrencies that are securities.
Whether or not crypto is a security has no bearing on whether or not it's subject to the wash sale rule. The wash sale rule still applies to commodities, such as options and futures contracts. The wash sale rule is an IRS thing, not an SEC thing. The key here is that the wash sale rule doesn't apply to "property", which is what the IRS considers cryptocurrency to be. The wash sale rule would apply to the cryptocurrency ETFs, but not the actual native cryptocurrency assets. I would not be surprised if that changes at some point and the IRS changes the wash sale rule to include crypto.
It's been revealed that Chainalysis can now trace Monero transactions and associated IP addresses. Even that is no longer suitable for illicit use. Just another example of how crypto is just a bad idea for criminals to use.
Good investments don't require the kind of zealotry that's on display here in this thread.
I also forgot to comment on this. I would not count on the U.S. government establishing a Bitcoin strategic reserve any time soon. Is it possible? Yes, and there is a bill in Congress to do it now. However, that is a huge uphill battle to get that to go through. And it's likely that if it does go through, that it won't be as much as the bill has in it now (1 million Bitcoin (5% of supply) over 5 years). It could happen eventually, but I think the conditions will be very different.
Why do I think this? Because the majority of the public still thinks crypto is a scam, or at least not safe. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-r...the-safety-and-reliability-of-cryptocurrency/ This thread is a perfect example of that.
The bill needs to go through both the House and the Senate. Do you think elected officials are going to ignore the feelings of their constituents (as misguided and misinformed as their constituents are) and approve a Bitcoin strategic reserve? It's not likely right now.
I don't think it will turn around until the general population sees crypto as being more safe, and that will require better regulations and improved ease of use, among other things. It's still too early. And that's too bad, because if they did establish a strategic reserve now, it could do a lot to improve the debt situation.
James Lavish published a great article about just exactly this earlier today.
Avoiding a good investment doesn't require making up lies and spreading misinformation.
Ask yourself if you'd ever be willing to admit that you're wrong, and what would it take?
I most certainly am if Bitcoin failed or caused a systemic failure to the financial system. An asset that has crashed as much as Bitcoin has, but still keeps doing what Bitcoin is supposed to do, no matter what, makes me think that's not going to happen. But if it does, I will admit I'm wrong about it.
How about you?
wow you'll admit you were wrong when someone else loses money.
how VERY generous of you... LOL
I would lose money. I'm surprised you couldn't realize that from this discussion... or maybe I'm not surprised actually.
there's a difference, even you know, between you losing money and someone else you convinced to buy into it losing money...
what you do with your money I dont care about. that's your choice to gamble it. all good.
Again, something you seem to continually be oblivious to... I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy Bitcoin or any other crypto. I've only been disputing lies and correcting misinformation.