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Though a 5k retina iMac with the option GPU is not compatible with my Macintosh laws of physics, thermodynamics in particular with that 125w GPU seemingly right on the edge of the TDP of what that chassis can handle without that fan getting worked very hard. So yes you need to shake your head a bit more :D

I've already ordered it. I can only hope the next bout of head-shaking won't be rueful head-shaking.

Wishful thinking bumps up against thermodynamics. I can only hope that the assembly line folks got the thermal paste on properly.

Glad you liked the Slobodkin quote.
 
Who Would Be Multi-Talented? Hint: They Aren't Legion.

When A Proven Theoretician, Laboratory Specialist And Field Worker Are All Rolled Into One, You Usually Get A Thing of Great Beauty.

... the other day I remembered something I read as a graduate student a half-century ago, that's relevant even to technical fields like computing. It's about ecology, but if you let it sink in, you'll see that it's about more than that, including some of what's been discussed in this thread.

" . . . the theoretician deals with all conceivable worlds while the laboratory worker deals with all possible worlds and the field worker is confined to the real world. The laboratory ecologist must ask the theoretician if his possible world is an interesting one, and must ask the field worker if it is at all related to the real one."

(Richard Slobodkin, 1961, American Naturalist 95, 147-153)

I know a person who can be all three at once because he was destined to be successfully metamorphosizing over and over again.

1) Like a caterpillar, he hatches, unassumingly disinterested.

“For awhile now people have been asking us about TB EGPU cards. And I always said I wasn't interested AND that I didn't think it would work. And I also said that we had nothing to offer, … . So it was 100% my belief that EFI had nothing to offer, therefore we had nothing to offer.”


2) But he already has a ravenous appetite for leaves that nearby trees have shed.

“But then I did some digging. And I bought a TB enclosure.”

3) He theorizes where to find a steady supply of those leaves and their usefulness.

“And realized that cMP was referencing some older tables in it's EFI. (40 vs 41, if you must know). So I updated the tables, and made a few minor other changes...and guess what? Turns out having EFI on a TB enclosure card is actually QUITE beneficial, the trick being it had to be an EFI that hasn't existed before. A newly modded form that takes into account the changes in Macs. Cupertino has once again eschewed the UEFI that is industry standard and used one a little different, a little off. Not the Mac Pro EFI, but their own. So, by writing a new DIFFERENT custom EFI I have been able to make a GTX680 not only run CUDA in a 2014 Mini (or 2012 rMBP), but also SHOW BOOT SCREENS. This is the "new" thing EFI brings to table. Past eGPU efforts relied on self-init feature of newer drivers. So if you had driver issues or wanted to switch boot disks you had to unplug the eGPU and plug in the Mini. Now with this capability you can just plug the Mini into another box that can sit anywhere and you have a Mini that is now sporting a GTX680. It also solves a dreaded issue with "Code 12" running bootcamp. Basically Windows didn't know the card was there since it wasn't introduced during EFI boot and wouldn't set aside any RAM for it.

I see the Mini and the nMP being the principle beneficiaries of this tech, though laptops and iMacs can also use them.”


4) Next he feeds on the moist leaflets, growing enormous in the knowledge of their inner goodness as his theories about leaves grow even greater.

“Why bother you ask? Well, what if I told you that I was able to use a GTX780 6GB in my bottom-of-the-barrel Mini and score a higher OpenGl Valley score than any currently shipping Mac tested by Barefeats.com? So, if you want high powered OpenGl, skip the nMP and get the $500 bobby-soxer Mini and wait for a TB enclosure & 780 combo? Obviously, there are other considerations, but seeing the stumbling and stuttering Mini burst into a high-powered OpenGl machine made me realize that this was more than flash in the pan.

One thing I can tell already is that there is a tremendous amount of testing to be done. (Hence this post, i'll get to it). My 2012 rMBP and 2014 Mini show different behavior. Most notably the Mini is limited to running just the screen that boot screen shows up on, and that one alone. Something tells me this is Apple's doing, the Mini is already full of artificial limitations, I feel this is yet another. And while the 2012 rMBP will work with unflashed cards (minus boot screen & with Code 12 error in Windows) and can run as many displays as the card is capable of running, the Mini will ONLY work with EFI flashed cards. This may be something Apple has added for the reason noted above, Mini with GTX780 leaves all other Macs for dead in OpenGl.

I have posted in Mini section trying to see if anyone else has gotten eGPU working in 2014 Mini as it is the obvious choice being first with TB2. The best forum for this stuff is "DIY eGPU" at Tech Inferno. Can't find any there either, but I have trouble navigating that site.

So this finally gets me to why I began this post. I have every reason to believe that this same modded EFI will work in nMP. Sadly, I don't have one. Here is my little fantasy, somewhere in LA is a Production Office that bought one to try out. The lack of CUDA was a deal breaker and now the pretty little creature at the front desk is suing it primarily for FaceBook Puppy Pictures and sending in the afternoon Latte order.”

5) Then suddenly his appetite appears to vanish and he goes into a pupa-like stage appearing to no longer exist - He's not even been posting here lately. However, he’s, in fact, just gathering the items he needs for his lab work to test his earlier and current theories.

“I would love to borrow one for a few hours. Failing that I would like to at least drive over with my little creation and see if boot screens work, test would take 2 minutes, provided you have a non TB monitor.

The kind soul who does this will get word to Mac world faster than my bidding on various units on Ebay is going too. I will have one here, but would love to get first answer soon. ”


6) As is customary, his ultimate destiny is to present to the whole world things of great beauty. These things of beauty come from MVC's melding theory, laboratory testing and field production together - as evidenced by his coming back to us to tell us that all of his theories have now been realized and that he has production ready, working models. His destiny is to forever go through this process as if he were stuck in the Movie “Ground Hog's Day.” But luckily for us - we aren't part of that cast. Only MVC is.

“So keep an eye on this space, I look forward to announcing that nMP can be upgraded to newer Nvidia GPUs and some screen shots. Hoping to have someone in LA help me make that happen sooner than later, but either way the info will come out.” [ Screenplay based on https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1822806/ ; Post #1, above ].
 
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So, I have the Sonnet Echo Express III-D Desktop Thunderbolt 2 Expansion Chassis, connected to my Mac Pro via Thunderbolt 2. I have two cards in it, a Sonnet Tempo Pro card and an Accelsior card. I think I could put in a GTX680 as well.

Doing that, and then the software steps I guess would give me this?
 
So, I have the Sonnet Echo Express III-D Desktop Thunderbolt 2 Expansion Chassis, connected to my Mac Pro via Thunderbolt 2. I have two cards in it, a Sonnet Tempo Pro card and an Accelsior card. I think I could put in a GTX680 as well.

Doing that, and then the software steps I guess would give me this?

Should definitely give you a CUDA option.

Big question is whether it will allow eGPU to run displays.
 
Should definitely give you a CUDA option.

Big question is whether it will allow eGPU to run displays.

For those who won't read at TechInferno:
Today a got a display for trying it out - I am getting no signal at the display from the eGPU.
I tried both the GTX680 (custom flashed) and the 980 (not flashed...), both won't run a display.

The only difference is that the 680 can be used as CUDA device, the 980 not. CudaZ recognizes the 980 as a CUDA card, but when I want to run an app which uses CUDA it shows correctly the 980, but it won't use it for computing.

I've looked closer what CudaZ shows exactly:
GTX680: Multiprocessors 8 (1536 Cores)
GTX980: Multiprocessors 16 - no cores shown

I think that's the explanation, but I have no clue where the solution is.
 
For those who won't read at TechInferno:
Today a got a display for trying it out - I am getting no signal at the display from the eGPU.
I tried both the GTX680 (custom flashed) and the 980 (not flashed...), both won't run a display.

The only difference is that the 680 can be used as CUDA device, the 980 not. CudaZ recognizes the 980 as a CUDA card, but when I want to run an app which uses CUDA it shows correctly the 980, but it won't use it for computing.

I've looked closer what CudaZ shows exactly:
GTX680: Multiprocessors 8 (1536 Cores)
GTX980: Multiprocessors 16 - no cores shown

I think that's the explanation, but I have no clue where the solution is.

The evidence is gathering to reinforce my prediction. Apple is shutting down eGPUs before they get taken too seriously. I think that finding TB2 Macs that can run a display in OSX is going to become ever more difficult. Whether this is due to TB2 tech or just Apple being mean with drivers crushing our options remains to be seen.

I will tell you this, if it is written into drivers, we will find where and how.

Tomorrow a TB2 rMBP will come by, I am hoping to test before I jump on a plane. Meanwhile might be worth eGPU community keeping tabs on which TB2 Macs can output to displays and correlating which version of OSX they work or don't work in.

The 980 CUDA issue is separate, this is just the two driver divisions in Nvidia not comparing notes. Pretty obvious they don't.

While being limited to Dx00 display outputs now isn't awful, as years go by and the latest GPUs continue to outclass those 3+ year old Dx00s it will become a bigger deal. If this "no display output" is done in OSX better we find out how.

Our eGPU EFIs can help, but so far just allow the display that shows bootscreens to "punch through" to OSX. ALL OTHERS REMAIN BLACK.
 
As Tutor said gpu computing don't need a modern cpu... I don't understand why you loose so much energy to get it working that way! A 100$ 2006 cmp has the same render time than a 2010 12 core cmp! and the same for open cl compare to the new mp! Nothing personnal to you MVC, I will forever respect your work but there is something that i don't understand
 
The evidence is gathering to reinforce my prediction. Apple is shutting down eGPUs before they get taken too seriously. I think that finding TB2 Macs that can run a display in OSX is going to become ever more difficult. Whether this is due to TB2 tech or just Apple being mean with drivers crushing our options remains to be seen.

I will tell you this, if it is written into drivers, we will find where and how.

Tomorrow a TB2 rMBP will come by, I am hoping to test before I jump on a plane. Meanwhile might be worth eGPU community keeping tabs on which TB2 Macs can output to displays and correlating which version of OSX they work or don't work in.

The 980 CUDA issue is separate, this is just the two driver divisions in Nvidia not comparing notes. Pretty obvious they don't.

While being limited to Dx00 display outputs now isn't awful, as years go by and the latest GPUs continue to outclass those 3+ year old Dx00s it will become a bigger deal. If this "no display output" is done in OSX better we find out how.

Our eGPU EFIs can help, but so far just allow the display that shows bootscreens to "punch through" to OSX. ALL OTHERS REMAIN BLACK.

Apple more than likely is shutting them down so they can monetise their own future eGPU products when the Intel platform is ready for them to enable it properly - Intel Skylake processors and chipset next year with TB3 and PCIe 3.0 support when the logic board will present that PCIe 3.0 port to the operating system, be in on a Macintosh or Windows platform.

They seem to be doing exactly the same preparation for this as I expect they would do with a future product - its up to others to do the same realising this. Fail to prepare - prepare to fail.
 
Apple won't do eGPU. PC and Hackintosh owners already giggle at hobbled sealed off Macs. An external graphics card will make them laugh even more. It's bad advertising.
 
Apple won't do eGPU. PC and Hackintosh owners already giggle at hobbled sealed off Macs. An external graphics card will make them laugh even more. It's bad advertising.

From what more than a few dickie birds have said in my ear in the discussions related to the project we have going; if I was a gambling man I would be seriously thinking of a large wager on mine and not your hypothesis being ultimately correct!

Though I could not possibly elaborate, especially in the written word :D
 
From what more than a few dickie birds have said in my ear in the discussions related to the project we have going; if I was a gambling man I would be seriously thinking of a large wager on mine and not your hypothesis being ultimately correct!

Though I could not possibly elaborate, especially in the written word :D

Then we are left with a sportsman's bet ;)
 
Then we are left with a sportsman's bet ;)

Accepted

Happy you get the bigger picture too totally too why I can't type sweet fanny adams about it in details either. There are many, many things that can be discussed in detail with the written word, but many others cannot be even elaborated about on much more private exchanges of information - by ear to ear only. Fail to prepare = prepare to fail :D
 
Accepted

Happy you get the bigger picture too totally too why I can't type sweet fanny adams about it in details either. There are many, many things that can be discussed in detail with the written word, but many others cannot be even elaborated about on much more private exchanges of information - by ear to ear only. Fail to prepare = prepare to fail :D

It must be the ultra top secret 'Air GPU' being tested for gaming performance in the next Apple TV. Ooops the cat is it out the bag hehe
 
As Tutor said gpu computing don't need a modern cpu... I don't understand why you loose so much energy to get it working that way! A 100$ 2006 cmp has the same render time than a 2010 12 core cmp! and the same for open cl compare to the new mp! Nothing personnal to you MVC, I will forever respect your work but there is something that i don't understand

It's not just about GPU computing - Intel video can't drive 3 displays, and while even base-midrange mac minis and airs have sufficient CPU for pretty much anything 2d (and indeed a lot of 3d) based, getting a large amount of hardware accelerated screen real estate on good, accurate monitors, is currently limited to the nMP and rMBP with discreet graphics.

A Mac Mini with a triple headed GPU is the sweet spot for Indy designers who don't work mobile.

*edit* and in looking at the requirements for the 3d app i use a lot - SketchUp - it'll eat as much GPU as you can throw at it, but only uses a single cpu core, and has no hyperthreading support. A beefy eGPU and a relatively aenemic Mac Mini loses very little compared to much more expensive options.
 
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There is now a guide by the Tech|Inferno user sedor of how to add a GTX680 eGPU to a 2013 nMP via the Thunderbolt2 port at the following link:

-->> [GUIDE] 2013 MacPro (nMP) + GTX680@16Gbps-TB2 (AKiTiO Thunder2) + OSX10.10 (Tech|Inferno) <<--

Just ordered an Elite 130 case, will do some experiments.

I have already a spare GTX 570 (with MacVidCards EFI ROM), a PE4L V2.1 (PCIe Adapter) http://www.hwtools.net/Adapter/PE4L V2.1.html, a Echo ExpressCard Pro Thunderbolt Adapter http://www.sonnettech.com/product/echoexpresscard34thunderbolt.html and an ATX Power Supply.

Of course only a Thunderbolt 1|PCI 2.0|1 lane|5 Gbit Setup, but when it works for CUDA after all…

How can i install the NVidia web Drivers on the Mac Mini 2012 ?
 
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Theory Proven !!! EFI enables boot screens and display support on 2014 rMBP!

Pretty sure this hasn't worked before.

If I am right, Apple has already struck a blow to kill eGPU before it becomes mainstream.

Got 1 4K display driven by 2014 rMBP (iris only), shows boot screens, etc. Next to test with Windows 8 and more and varied displays. This behaves identically to 2014 Mini. Using a special mEFI I am able to choose boot disk and run display from GTX780 & GTX680.

Apple pre-thwarted eGPU.

Got around it.

We won this battle.

Have the HD with screen shots in my bag. Boarding at Burbank for red-eye to JFK. Will try to get screenshots when we land.
 
Primer on eGPUs, thunderbolt, and DIY

Not really understanding what all this discussion about eGPUs and thunderbolt and thwarting, etc. was all about, I found a useful article on the subject at http://lab501.net/egpu-connecting-external-video-card-notebook-diy-implementation/all/1/ . (Note: the full, untruncated address is: lab501.net/egpu-connecting-external-video-card-notebook-diy-implementation/all/1/). Very helpful to us NOOBs to the subject but it also later gives detailed instructions about building your own external case and card and setting up the software for those who are more informed. Not something I want to do but at least I have a better idea of what you guys are talking about.

The link also gives a pointer to a community of similarly thinking enthusiasts.

Brian
 
Nice article, wish he had included a Mac, as getting into Windows presents one set of challenges, while booting OSX is a different one.

Pretty sure we are linking and mentioning same tech inferno forums as the article does. That is where I got all the info that led me down the path.

It is shameful that Apple and Intel expect TB to blossom and grow and be respected whilst simultaneously choking it with both hands to keep it from reaching it's potential, just so it doesn't hurt their other sales.

I realize now I never posted the screenshots I promised. I am in the woods of Western NY. No internet other than what you bring with you. So I will set up a hotspot and fire up a real laptop.

Apple wants to sell you GPU power one precious drop at a time from their special tap. Here is a way to bypass their artificial restrictions and decide for yourself how much GPU to combine with whatever Mac you want or need.

Will be purchasing a nMP upon return to LA next week. Will demonstrate this tech more thoroughly there.
 

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^^^^This is truly exciting. Keep up the GREAT Work!!!! In looking at the above attachments, it appears that your CUDA-Z results look funny?

Lou
 
Am sure rendering community will appreciate using multiple eGPUs in a mobile box easily attached to any thunderbolt equipped system
 
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^^^^This is truly exciting. Keep up the GREAT Work!!!! In looking at the above attachments, it appears that your CUDA-Z results look funny?

Lou

The Host to device numbers are exactly what you would expect, 1/4 of what a cMP would get with same card. This is due to TB2 = PCIE 2.0 x4 lanes, i.e., 1/4 of PCIE 2.0 x16.

The amount of work done on the card remains constant.

Really need to run an actual render to find real loss. The eGPU community has basically narrowed it down to being 70-90% as good as card in slot, depending on what you are doing.
 
nMP TB2 GPU

I'm sure it's been covered and beaten to death, but I'm not finding a clear answer. Is TB2 GPU possible with nMP?? I have one with D700's but looking for more GPU processing power.

Apologies, but if someone could point me to the correct info, I'm happy to read it all.
Want it mostly to increase performance with Davinici Resolve, Adobe CC, and Red CineX.

Thanks!
 
I'm sure it's been covered and beaten to death, but I'm not finding a clear answer. Is TB2 GPU possible with nMP?? I have one with D700's but looking for more GPU processing power.

Apologies, but if someone could point me to the correct info, I'm happy to read it all.
Want it mostly to increase performance with Davinici Resolve, Adobe CC, and Red CineX.

Thanks!

I've a nMP (with D500s) and I am running a GPU by TB2 - I use that GPU just for rendering.
 
nMP GPU

Awesome. Would you be willing to share details about chassis, drivers, etc?
Are multiple GPU's possible/practical? I'm thinking a Titan Black to start. I wonder how it might stack-up against the dual D700's, on processes that can use AMD and/or CUDA.'
Thx
 
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