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Could the nMP have been discontinued?

JimGoshorn said:
That's the big question, especially if it follows a similar design.
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Yeah if it follows the same design I think that's game over for a lot of people (myself included). Given the missing audio jack in this year's iPhone they're not doing much to show they have learned any lessons or wish to endear themselves to customers. Not updating the monitor is another example - like I said there's many fronts they've neglected and are losing a lot of good will from their long time customers.
 
Jim W said:
I just bought a new 2013 nMP to back up number one. Will not go beyond a system that doesn't run Aperture. El Cap supposedly does, Yosemite positively will. But not until I work out a new workflow. Furious about that. Photos is an absolute joke. Snapshot shoebox for Grandma, teenagers and lazy dilettantes. Probably Capture One Pro which I already own. Too much invested in TBolt 2 to care about TBolt 3. All photo work and nothing above HD 1080. nMP plenty fast. New Retina 15" MBP and a 2012 tower. Resolve and FCPX until they decide to yank that for iPhone editing. Tim Cook and Ive. Put them in a self driving car into the sunset. Bet it will be pretty, though. Until it has to avoid a left turning truck.
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How is it so far? You think you can last another 5 years with it?
 
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I am hoping for a reasonable mac pro mini tower to come out, but... I will recycle some comments I made years ago when watching apple from afar (and I remember the next product). Steve Jobs, with his insistence on being a hardware company took the apple 'pc' market share from 30-40% down to 5% in the early days. I used to say he was the luckiest ceo on earth as he sort of failed in the early days of personal computing. He got apple to buy his failed next computer company. Microsoft was growing like nuts selling only an operating system (generally a bit inferior to the mac os at any given time), but attractive nonetheless as it used non-proprietary hardware with huge price advantages.

But we all know that he perservered and whether by accident or not, with the iPod, and then iPhone, he turned apple into the behemoth that it is. Moral of the story--its the smaller non-pc products that made apple great. Tim Cook likely knows there is a danger of stagnation, so he is pursuing the Next Great Thing, while ignoring a shrinking pc type product line that does not appear to have the ability to even double sales over a 5 year period due to competitive pressures from all sorts of devices.

I can imagine Steve Jobs having sort of a nostalgic attachment to the mac line where he made his bones, and maybe investing in improvements even though the return on investment didn't meet that of the phones. So, dropping the mac line in a gentle way (fold it into fewer products and call the powerful imac the new mac pro) is one option. Another option is to just amputate the weak limb and get the healing started. Or they could sell it to another company the way IBM did with their pc business. Both for me, and I think apple, a good option is to give up on the hardware sales notion which has always held them back, and release OSx for 'certified' platforms or some such--its too much work to try and support all devices, though microsoft has done that. This seems to me a way they could reduce their product development costs and allow the loyal osx users a path forward.

Win 10 is problemmatic to many folks, with win 7 being the place many have decided to cling to as long as possible. So, win 10 is a possible, but last resort type option for me.
 
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Philocetes said:
But we all know that he perservered and whether by accident or not, with the iPod, and then iPhone, he turned apple into the behemoth that it is. Moral of the story--its the smaller non-pc products that made apple great. Tim Cook likely knows there is a danger of stagnation, so he is pursuing the Next Great Thing, while ignoring a shrinking pc type product line that does not appear to have the ability to even double sales over a 5 year period due to competitive pressures from all sorts of devices.
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He's very wise to be doing so. Despite out love for the Mac Apple knows it's not the future of their business. Likewise the iPhone will follow the same fate as the Mac. This is not to say Apple can't continue improving the Mac. They have the resources to do so and, while it remains profitable (assuming it is), should continue to do so.
 
Philocetes said:
I can imagine Steve Jobs having sort of a nostalgic attachment to the mac line where he made his bones, and maybe investing in improvements even though the return on investment didn't meet that of the phones. So, dropping the mac line in a gentle way (fold it into fewer products and call the powerful imac the new mac pro) is one option. Another option is to just amputate the weak limb and get the healing started. Or they could sell it to another company the way IBM did with their pc business. Both for me, and I think apple, a good option is to give up on the hardware sales notion which has always held them back, and release OSx for 'certified' platforms or some such--its too much work to try and support all devices, though microsoft has done that. This seems to me a way they could reduce their product development costs and allow the loyal osx users a path forward.
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What if the nMP was their attempt to invest in the Mac for old times sake? It was a dramatic change with technology ideas that they hoped would put the Mac in a prominent place. Maybe it didn't do what they hoped so now they have to consider amputation and cut their losses. What if they realize that pros are no longer their market so they are better off with iMacs and MacBooks than chasing a losing market (sentiments aside)?

If they want to license OS X, they would have to give up hardware or they would be competing with themselves hardware wise (why buy an iMac when you can get a less expensive PC which could run the same OS?). How would their iCloud ecosystem be affected? Now they would have to deal with and support PCs, Macs, iPads and iPods. Sounds like a sticky/messy situation.

I just don't think that Apple would be willing to give up control in any way, shape or form. They would probably prefer to kill off part of their Mac lineup than share their market with the PC world.
 
Good points, but the thing is, how do we know that the mac pro line is profitable? And just keeping in the black is not enough. Companies have target internal rates of return. Lets say one product line gets 26% IRR and another gets 14%. Well, the executives get into trouble if they don't steer funds into the most profitable lines--or those which appear to have potential for exceeding the internal IRR target. They probably spent a lot of money on the trash can, not knowing it was not a good fit for many power users.

As another poster pointed out, businesses don't want new and fancy, they want productivity. I support windows database servers. Now joe public might feel he got screwed if he buys a new version of windows and it looks the same as the old one. But I am a professional and I don't want to have to learn a new way to do my job as microsoft dinks around with the GUI (as they have been doing). So, in many respects, the wonderful engineering money on the trash can was sort of wasted since it didn't match the needs of many users.
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JimGoshorn said:
...I just don't think that Apple would be willing to give up control in any way, shape or form. They would probably prefer to kill off part of their Mac lineup than share their market with the PC world.
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You could be right. I have no special insight, just speculating with my own ideas which I imagine have been said here many times anyway... ;)
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JimGoshorn said:
...What if they realize that pros are no longer their market so they are better off with iMacs and MacBooks than chasing a losing market (sentiments aside)....
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To my thinking, this seems like a likely scenario. My point in mentioning Steve Jobs was that I could speculate that he had a lot more nostalgia for the mac pro than Tim Cook might. And in my mind, the imac is a nice product for non-techies (I am a techie). I had my dad get one when it was time to move on from the PC I had built for him--big reduction in nest of cables, intuitive and simple user interface--no complaints from him.

Also, I see Tim Cook as being invested in celebrity culture and politics. Whatever ones political beliefs in this polarized country, making statements that alienate either 49% or 51% of the people (depending on how you read the polls) is simply bad business. I didn't watch that close, but I don't recall Steve Jobs indulging in this, nor the folks at microsoft--at least not in an insulting manner. Folks with low product knowledge are swayed by non-engineering things.
 
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JimGoshorn said:
What if they realize that pros are no longer their market so they are better off with iMacs and MacBooks than chasing a losing market (sentiments aside)?
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How many people buy a Mac Pro to my mind is almost secondary to it's primary importance in elevating the Apple brand. It could legitimately run at a loss and still be good PR for them.

Apple is trying to sell watches that range in price up to 10k. It's hard to pretend you're a luxury technology company when the best piece of hardware you can muster is something that sits on every secretary's desk. There's a similar analogy here to car models. Besides the brand benefit, luxury car models also produce the technology that is handed down over time to the lesser models. A comparison here might be how Apple merged the features of the macbook pros with the lesser model ibooks back in the day. How the mac pro might fit this is up in the air but the potential could be there as well.

Philocetes said:
Also, I see Tim Cook as being invested in celebrity culture and politics. Whatever ones political beliefs in this polarized country, making statements that alienate either 49% or 51% of the people (depending on how you read the polls) is simply bad business. I didn't watch that close, but I don't recall Steve Jobs indulging in this, nor the folks at microsoft--at least not in an insulting manner. Folks with low product knowledge are swayed by non-engineering things.
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Not sure I know what comments you're talking about. The guy is too much of a dork to be "invested in celebrity culture" and he donates to both political parties like all parasite capitalists.
 
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Peace said:
That's just the 6-core. The base model hasn't been discontinued.
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If they kill off the 6, how long do you think it will take them to kill off the rest? It just may depend on how much inventory is left for each of the other models. The 6 should have been one of the more popular configurations.
 
This has been discussed quite a bit here and its not clear whether this is an official apple discontinue, or just something to do with the vendor not stocking it anymore--or even a sales technique like all those Persian rug going out of business sales. ;)
 
Philocetes said:
This has been discussed quite a bit here and its not clear whether this is an official apple discontinue, or just something to do with the vendor not stocking it anymore--or even a sales technique like all those Persian rug going out of business sales. ;)
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It wouldn't be discontinued when Apple is still selling it from their website.
 
JimGoshorn said:
If they kill off the 6, how long do you think it will take them to kill off the rest? It just may depend on how much inventory is left for each of the other models. The 6 should have been one of the more popular configurations.
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To sustain production at appropriate rate of orders, while preparing updated production lines for for example new model, they need only one, basic computer model, with ability to upgrade it. All of this is achievable through Apple Online Store, for example.

This is indication that update is coming. Brace yourselves!
 
It's possible it may be going to way of the Xserve rack mount if many remember that.

I loved those things. Then Apple transitioned it out and in to the Mac Pro tower, now into the cylinder.
It's just difficult to believe after one run in a new design it's gone.

But I'm hoping they breathe some new life into the little guy this year.
 
flowrider said:
The post you quoted was written 3 weeks ago, and was addressed at that time. Why bring this up again?

Lou
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That or another Amazon vendor recently used the "2013 6-core discontinued by manufacturer" sales ploy again which quickly vanished. This might indicate that Apple does read these posts.
 
Philocetes said:
I don't think any pc-based mid-towers weigh anything near what a mac pro weighs. When I am humping that mac pro around, I am simply amazed at how heavy it is--well at least it would deter theft. ;)
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True, but the HP Z840/820 models are the same weight as the old Mac Pro. My HP weighs in at 86lbs with all my drives, cards in place.
 
flowrider said:
The post you quoted was written 3 weeks ago, and was addressed at that time. Why bring this up again?
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Not sure if it is Macrumors or these authors themselves, but if you look carefully at the actual links on these two references they are not directly linked to amazon.com. It is labeled as though it is an amazon link but it is not (although you will eventually land on amazon after a redirect.).

It is still around in part because it is inflammatory click bait. It is meant to get clicks. ( I suspect the tactic is being employed by the seller too. Label it discontinued because it is a controversial label that they can posit some hand waving excuse for. )
 
deconstruct60 said:
Not sure if it is Macrumors or these authors themselves, but if you look carefully at the actual links on these two references they are not directly linked to amazon.com. It is labeled as though it is an amazon link but it is not (although you will eventually land on amazon after a redirect.).
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that's how links going to online retailers work around here.. for example:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1190438-REG/apple_z0sd_mk47235_bh_27_imac_with_retina.html

..you'll see it doesn't go directly to B&H and instead, takes a lap through some sort of macRumors ad tracking thing.. (like- macrumors probably stands to make money when someone clicks on the link that i posted)
 
Most forum owners make money on ad click throughs. Vendors pay to have their adds on the web sites and then usually get paid a commission when someone clicks on it, maybe more if there is also a sale.
 
Apple's efforts on the standalone desktop front have been woeful from top (nMP) to bottom (Mac Mini) and with a notable absence of any middle at all!

Why on earth can we not purchase a desktop class quad core i7, with a replaceable graphics card without a screen attached? Apple can do it and make them look pretty - we've seen them do it before.
 
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ColdCase said:
Most forum owners make money on ad click throughs. Vendors pay to have their adds on the web sites and then usually get paid a commission when someone clicks on it, maybe more if there is also a sale.
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right, but this is different in that vendors or forum owners aren't involved in it.. if a forum member posts a link for discussion purposes, it becomes an advertisement to the vendor/owner even though that's not the intent of member.

i'm not knocking this site for it. just saying it's a little different of a scenario than you've described.
 
mmomega said:
It's possible it may be going to way of the Xserve rack mount if many remember that...
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Much as I like the over-engineering on apple hardware, I don't think they had much of a chance to take their business model into the server world. Serving up FTP, Web, telnet, or some other IP based protocol is a pretty standard thing and there is lots of freeware out there that does the job on cheaply assembled hardware. None of the advantages of mac osx show in this role--the user interface and what all else is valued. There is no such thing as a 'better' HTTP server--its simple and either it works or not.

And with companies like facebook and google buying custom built servers by the tens of thousands, apples approach of a premium device simply can't compete. These companies simply write the specs for a server and let companies submit bids to build it, and the volumes are such they probably have their own special stripped down motherboards with minimal bells and whistles. They even get down to the savings level of only including the exact number of USB ports they want (if any) and certainly no use for things like onboard audio. Its a whole different dynamic. I think I read that some of these servers might not even have metal cases all the way around because they cost money and don't serve a purpose in these datacenters with acres of space under the roof.

I do share your regret that apple is not investing in the worstation/server part of their product line.
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playtech1 said:
Apple's efforts on the standalone desktop front have been woeful from top (nMP) to bottom (Mac Mini) and with a notable absence of any middle at all!

Why on earth can we not purchase a desktop class quad core i7, with a replaceable graphics card without a screen attached? Apple can do it and make them look pretty - we've seen them do it before.
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Not in any respect undercutting what you are saying, but I just gave hackintosh a good hard look due to the same reasons we all have, and I decided to get some cMPs and upgrade them--this cost the same as the hack I was speccing out, but it had the server cpu and ecc ram and the benchmark numbers were not as much less than the i7-6700k as I had expected. So, what I have learned is that apple has not done much with mac pro since 2009, but they utilized leading edge stuff at the time, and by tossing a few used xeons from scrapped dell type servers into the cMP, one has a device that is surprisingly capable given its age. Not saying its a no-brainer, but just that I have it a very hard look, reading tons here and actually pricing a parts list for a hackintosh and for my particular situation, I decided to go with the old stuff. I think the main advantage of a hackintosh to me would be that it has 6 years less wear and tear on it than a new build. I suspect ram and the cpu can go 20 years, but the mechanical things like fans and maybe capacitors probably have a limited life span--which we don't know exactly what that might be.
 
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