iPad Pro Craig and Joz discussing iPad on The Talk Show

[Shirasaki]

We need to re-adjust expectations to be lower and not expect much out of these. They're just gonna be big iPhones and we should use them as such.

Yeah exactly. Despite all the attempts, made up or real, iPad never truly lose its identity of being a glorified iPhone, a better iPhone that is a lot less portable, can’t take proper photos, can‘t make phone calls/SMS, and can’t use NFC.

Because I would love my iPad to be my only computer (besides my phone). I guess if I was a Mac user then yeah the iPad Pro is definitely overkill.

I am a Mac user and an iPad user. But, I don‘t think iPad Pro is overkill for iPad version of some apps are really handy and useable for quick stuff nowadays. Mac is more of a computer with some leftover capability to run iOS apps.

But it was Apple’s choice to fork iOS into iPadOS and give it the same processors that power Macs. What’s the point of doing that if iPad is still mostly just a big iPhone?

Save costs of course. It’s abundantly clear that they are happy with iPad being a glorified iPhone, and will keep it that way till the end of it.

 

[heretiq]

Yes and think John Gruber’s framing merging Mac and iPad was disingenuous. It’s like he intentionally framed it that way to make it easier for Craig and Joz to dismiss it.

Some of the biggest iPad Pro users listed specific things they think the platform needs. And to the extent they said ‘let us boot into macOS’ it’s a last resort as Apple doesn’t seem to want to do anything else. I wouldn’t expect Gruber to name drop someone like Federico Viticci but he could have summarized a few of their complaints/suggestions and framed that to Craig. The answers Craig and Joz gave just screamed we think people should own two devices.

I like and respect Federico. However from reading his experiences over the years it seems the problem is that the best device for him is a MacBook Air, but he prefers the iPad form factor — so he chooses form over function and has become a visible example of what happens when you do that: disappointment with the results. To many that experience reinforces the importance of choosing function over form, but to some it creates a spiral of continuously justifying a wrong choice and insisting that someone else should solve the problem created by their bad choice.

 

[heretiq]

What do you think the vision for iPadOS is?

To be the best tablet OS.

 

[firstinflight]

My hot take is that the iPad is the product where we see the loss of Steve Jobs the most – Apple Watch was mostly after his passing, iPhone as a product line was fairly mature by his passing, but iPad launched right before. Had he lived longer, I think we'd have seen a very different iPad long-term – as a result it has never changed from its original purpose (the "big iPhone").

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Except it would suck as a tablet.

Can confirm...have SP9. It's a great laptop, but a terrible tablet.

 

[Retskrad]

If you disagree with how Apple manages the iPad, vote with your wallet and don’t buy it. That’s how people are voting with their wallets with the Vision Pro, AirPods Max, HomePod. People don’t go around and complain all day that they’re unhappy with those products. Most people just don’t buy them and go on with their day. I don’t know what it is with the iPad that have riled people up to become irrational, year after year, for like half a decade at this point, and will still complain for years to become.

 

[Nikhil72]

If you disagree with how Apple manages the iPad, vote with your wallet and don’t buy it. That’s how people are voting with their wallets with the Vision Pro, AirPods Max, HomePod. People don’t go around and complain all day that they’re unhappy with those products. Most people just don’t buy them and go on with their day. I don’t know what it is with the iPad that have riled people up to become irrational, year after year, for like half a decade at this point, and will still complain for years to become.

Because it’s the gold standard tablet and people are very passionate about it. The competitors are complete garbage across the board. They largely saw a decline in sales last year because it hadn’t been updated in a long time and because they’re incredibly reliable devices, which is a mark of a well crafted device.

 

[KPOM]

That’s Apple’s answer. I think it’s a lame one.

Or you buy a cheaper Mac and/or iPad to fit both within your budget.

 

[KPOM]

Because it’s the gold standard tablet and people are very passionate about it. The competitors are complete garbage across the board. They largely saw a decline in sales last year because it hadn’t been updated in a long time and because they’re incredibly reliable devices, which is a mark of a well crafted device.

If the Surface or similar ARM-powered 2-in-1 detachable laptops start to take off, Apple will take notice. They obviously started making large-screen phones after years of insisting that 4” was the “perfect” size.

 

[KPOM]

Fair enough, so… what in the iPad Pro is lacking for you again?

There are things that Apple could do to improve the “sports car” experience in the iPad Air/Pro. They could enable choosing speaker, mic, and camera inputs when plugged into a monitor with those features, for instance. Stage Manager works reasonably well but could use some UI tweaks. For hardware I would like to see the nano screen more widely available in less expensive memory and storage configurations.

 

[KPOM]

No, and if a Mac laptop was my main computing device I wouldn’t own an iPad Pro or Air. But what if someone wants the iPad to be their main computing device?

For many it can be, particularly with cloud file storage. Ever since we rolled out OneDrive for Business and Microsoft 365 I use my iPad Pro all the time at work.

 

[richpjr]

I'm not sure I'd read too much into the comments from Craig. They are pretty generic and it's not like he is going to give anything away about the future and he certainly isn't going to trash the product or focus on its shortcomings.

 

[KPOM]

My hot take is that the iPad is the product where we see the loss of Steve Jobs the most – Apple Watch was mostly after his passing, iPhone as a product line was fairly mature by his passing, but iPad launched right before. Had he lived longer, I think we'd have seen a very different iPad long-term – as a result it has never changed from its original purpose (the "big iPhone").

How much different do you think it would be? I don’t think it would run macOS. He was opposed to the iPad mini and who knows what he would have thought about a 13” iPad? Perhaps the lineup would be a bit more coherent with less overlap.

Apple likely would have moved Mac to Apple Silicon a few years earlier. Steve approved the purchase of PA Semi in 2008. The 12”
MacBook probably would still exist as it seemed to epitomize Steve Jobs’s vision of the Mac for consumers.

Jobs might not have been as blindsided by generative AI but Apple seems to be responding quickly, and again it isn’t as clear what a more nimble AI strategy would have meant for iPad vs Mac.

Apple Watch was started after his death. I think it was a Jony Ive project that Tim Cook was eager to support since he needed to prove he could introduce a new product not on the roadmap that Steve Jobs left for him in 2011.

 

[Ludatyk]

There are things that Apple could do to improve the “sports car” experience in the iPad Air/Pro. They could enable choosing speaker, mic, and camera inputs when plugged into a monitor with those features, for instance.

Apple just gave us the ability to use webcams, it's not as if they are not attempting to improve the iPad Air/Pro experience.

I recall seeing a video by Christopher Lawley, where he was able to record footage into some device and podcast directly from the iPad.

Stage Manager works reasonably well but could use some UI tweaks. For hardware I would like to see the nano screen more widely available in less expensive memory and storage configurations.

What UI tweaks do you have in mind? And users could get the same kind of nano screen experience through some sort of screen protector... I think Apple did it that way because it's something that can't be reversed, only option is to return (I'd imagine the returns would be high).

I had the option to buy the nano screen with the storage configuration I have but refused to because I'm fully aware it's not something I need.

 

[JamesMay82]

I think if it’s about affordability then the Apple range isn’t for people in that mindset.

I have a friend whose long term windows user and gets new machine every 5 years and never spends more than £600 even through he could easily afford a Mac. He just doesn’t value it at anymore than a windows pc.

I think most of us iPad complainers don’t really want or need it to be a Mac but they just need to iron out more of the kinks..

This video perfectly sums up my frustration with it

 

[KPOM]

Apple just gave us the ability to use webcams, it's not as if they are not attempting to improve the iPad Air/Pro experience.

I recall seeing a video by Christopher Lawley, where he was able to record footage into some device and podcast directly from the iPad.


What UI tweaks do you have in mind? And users could get the same kind of nano screen experience through some sort of screen protector... I think Apple did it that way because it's something that can't be reversed, only option is to return (I'd imagine the returns would be high).

I had the option to buy the nano screen with the storage configuration I have but refused to because I'm fully aware it's not something I need.

A screen protector isn't the same. The biggest thing that could be easier/more intuitive with Stage Manager is opening another instance of the same application, particularly on a different display.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

The question I would ask them is what about customers who don’t want (or can’t afford) to own an iPad and a Mac? A top of the line iPad Pro is as expensive as a Mac laptop. Is Craig really saying that it is impossible for Apple to create a version of iPadOS that could be the best tablet experience but also serve more pro workflows that exist on the Mac? He threw in a dig at Windows 8 but Microsoft taking a desktop OS and shoehorning it into a tablet is nothing like Apple making a touch first OS more capable of doing desktop like workflows.

At best these guys are stuck in 2010. I get that they love how basic their iPad use case is, but then taking a position that basic is all an iPad can ever be while insisting that everyone spend $5000 for their 2-computer response to the Surface Pro AND repeatedly insulting everyone who has more of a vision for it than they do, year after year, is beyond idiotic. At this point I think I'm waiting for generational change at this company before spending another dime on any of their products.

 

[IceCool]

What about people who can't afford both a truck and a sports car?

 

[ericwn]

What about people who can't afford both a truck and a sports car?

Maybe they are not the audience they’re aiming for as customers.

 

[Rogifan]

To be the best tablet OS.

How do you define a “tablet OS“?

 

[Rogifan]

For many it can be, particularly with cloud file storage. Ever since we rolled out OneDrive for Business and Microsoft 365 I use my iPad Pro all the time at work.

I use mine but only for teams. I’m a heavy Excel user and the iPad version of Excel doesn’t have all the functionality I need.

 

[Rogifan]

My hot take is that the iPad is the product where we see the loss of Steve Jobs the most – Apple Watch was mostly after his passing, iPhone as a product line was fairly mature by his passing, but iPad launched right before. Had he lived longer, I think we'd have seen a very different iPad long-term – as a result it has never changed from its original purpose (the "big iPhone").

Well one thing I’m fairly certain of: iPad Pro would have more of a defined purpose. Like I said it was apples decision to fork iOS into iPadOS and give iPads the same chips as Macs. To do that but keep the operating system incredibly basic makes no sense.

Making iPadOS more full featured doesn’t have to over complicate it for the average iPad user. My mother doesn’t know what stage manager is. She’s never used split view or slide over. or the Files app for that matter. It’s possible to accommodate both types of users if Apple wants to.

 

[Rogifan]

At best these guys are stuck in 2010. I get that they love how basic their iPad use case is, but then taking a position that basic is all an iPad can ever be while insisting that everyone spend $5000 for their 2-computer response to the Surface Pro AND repeatedly insulting everyone who has more of a vision for it than they do, year after year, is beyond idiotic. At this point I think I'm waiting for generational change at this company before spending another dime on any of their products.

I didn’t like the way John Gruber framed the question. He offered up a strawman that was easy for them to knock down. I’m sure that was intentional.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

What about people who can't afford both a truck and a sports car?

Do what I do. Pick one side to buy nice. I am going to go with a slightly better 16/512 MacBook of some sort. Maybe a m2 15” MacBook Air or m3 14” MacBook Pro.

Then I go with a lower end iPad. Probably an m1 iPad Air…I mean what’s the point in going better? If it could run Mac it would be one thing, but it can’t.

 

[Ludatyk]

A screen protector isn't the same. The biggest thing that could be easier/more intuitive with Stage Manager is opening another instance of the same application, particularly on a different display.

Maybe, not the same… but users can achieve similar results. Have you tried using one?

And I open the same application on both the iPad and an external monitor often…. You simply add another window from the three dots OR hold on the icon to give you that option and select Move to Display. Or you can do the old fashion way and drag it over to the external monitor.