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heretiq

Contributor
Jan 31, 2014
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Denver, CO
How do you define a “tablet OS“?
I don’t. I leave that up to the experts that created my tablet of choice which is the iPad. They (Apple) know infinitely more than me about the subject, so I respect that and defer to their judgment. When they release new iPadOS features I take the time to learn about them and how they should be used. This approach has served me well and allowed me to enjoy and be productive professionally and personally with every iPad I’ve had — starting from my purchase of the original iPad on day one to my present 13” M4 iPad Pro.
 

prospervic

macrumors 65816
Aug 2, 2007
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Yeah exactly. Despite all the attempts, made up or real, iPad never truly lose its identity of being a glorified iPhone, a better iPhone that is a lot less portable, can’t take proper photos, can‘t make phone calls/SMS, and can’t use NFC.

I am a Mac user and an iPad user. But, I don‘t think iPad Pro is overkill for iPad version of some apps are really handy and useable for quick stuff nowadays. Mac is more of a computer with some leftover capability to run iOS apps.

Save costs of course. It’s abundantly clear that they are happy with iPad being a glorified iPhone, and will keep it that way till the end of it.
Absolutely brilliant! You must immediately give your expert counsel to YouTubers like Christopher Lawley, who disposed of his Mac and does all of his content creation for his successful channel on an iPad Pro (using Final Cut Pro), and enlighten him on how he's foolishly wasting his time and money on his "glorified iPhone."
 

masotime

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Jun 24, 2012
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Shirasaki

macrumors P6
May 16, 2015
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What's wrong with picking a Mac and a $349 iPad....? I'll bet it probably goes on sale for $299 or less pretty often....
It’s not just about the cost. It’s the fundamental idea of needing to juggle around 2 devices that bothers some people: it’s fine for me to cough up extra if that means I only need to worry about one device, not 2 devices or More.
And Apple delivers exactly NOT that and keep pushing people to buy 2 devices.
 
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klasma

macrumors 604
Jun 8, 2017
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Perhaps the iPad is not for the power user at all?
To me that’s exactly the criticism. There is no good reason why there should be power-user laptops/desktops only and not also power-user tablets. Touch vs. non-touch is orthogonal to that. It also doesn't require powerful chips (power-user-friendly OSs existed decades ago on much more limited hardware), so the discussion regarding the M-series chips is beside the point.

I'm pretty sure that if Apple's developers were forced to use iPads exclusively, iPad OS would improve rather quickly in that regard.
 
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aevan

macrumors 601
Feb 5, 2015
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Serbia
I think the framing needs to change at this point.

I’m perfectly fine saying I want a high end portable Mac that can run iPad apps completely natively. This isn’t functionally different from an iPad running macOS but it doesn’t try to put a more expensive platform on a less expensive one.

Modern Macs can run iPad and iPhone apps natively.
 

iPadified

macrumors 68020
Apr 25, 2017
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Then why do ‘pro’ versions of Logic and Final Cut exist for it? I understand with Apple the word ‘pro’ doesn’t always mean professional but Apple has never said iPad isn’t for power users. They’ve gone out of their way to show people getting real work done on an iPad. They’re not marketing the iPad Pro as a premium content consumption device.
Power and Pro is two different things in my book. Pro means making money but in Apple glossary “better”. Power user typically have very specialized demands or need extreme compute performance, which definitely not all need to make money or being a “pro”.

Who said desktop OS and apps are ultimate user experience? Convoluted, complicated, with a steep learning curve and often riddled with legacy processes and desktop OS setup also need a keyboard and mouse which are unsuitable in many situations.

Interesting that you mention logic and Final Cut for iPad. At least final cut got criticism of being dumbed down. Apple is not stupid, they selected features that are core for more advanced editing to keep iPad editing simple and yet a step up from iMovie. Probably sufficient for a very large number of users.
 

iPadified

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Apr 25, 2017
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To me that’s exactly the criticism. There is no good reason why there should be power-user laptops/desktops only and not also power-user tablets. Touch vs. non-touch is orthogonal to that. It also doesn't require powerful chips (power-user-friendly OSs existed decades ago on much more limited hardware), so the discussion regarding the M-series chips is beside the point.

I'm pretty sure that if Apple's developers were forced to use iPads exclusively, iPad OS would improve rather quickly in that way.
There are many reasons for a non specialist computer such an iPad. The specialist constitute to 5-20% of the population. Explain why the rest should not have a dedicated computer suitable for them?

What is the point of powers-user tablets when perfectly nice Macs exists? What would be the advantage of a tablet for a developer over a Mac?
 
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xxFoxtail

macrumors 6502a
Nov 8, 2015
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Absolutely brilliant! You must immediately give your expert counsel to YouTubers like Christopher Lawley, who disposed of his Mac and does all of his content creation for his successful channel on an iPad Pro (using Final Cut Pro), and enlighten him on how he's foolishly wasting his time and money on his "glorified iPhone."
I tried listening to his new podcast (decided it wasn't for me after the first episode). One of the things he said was he just bought another Mac to do the podcast with. I guess maybe the iPad isn't the perfect all-in-one tool for him after all.
 

Isengardtom

macrumors 65816
Feb 14, 2009
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I tried listening to his new podcast (decided it wasn't for me after the first episode). One of the things he said was he just bought another Mac to do the podcast with. I guess maybe the iPad isn't the perfect all-in-one tool for him after all.
Just proves there’s a whole lof of nuance between “glorified iPhone” and “perefect all in one tool”

Some professionals can use their iPad pro’s to do their work on. For some it’s a companion device.
 

Frosties

macrumors 65816
Jun 12, 2009
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Just proves there’s a whole lof of nuance between “glorified iPhone” and “perefect all in one tool”

Some professionals can use their iPad pro’s to do their work on. For some it’s a companion device.
For my use it is a companion device, it is my personal fun computer but I have to have a laptop for work due to iPadOS. I guess wildly that much of the problem comes from the very brutal sandboxing which is Core of iPadOS; that makes it impossible to for instance format drives and not have them corrupt if you close the format app. Thus we can’t format drives in iPadOS. To change background threads you have to let them run in the background and that kills battery and build up heat in the thinnest device Apple has made.
 
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Isengardtom

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Feb 14, 2009
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For my use it is a companion device, it is my personal fun computer but I have to have a laptop for work due to iPadOS. I guess wildly that much of the problem comes from the very brutal sandboxing which is Core of iPadOS; that makes it impossible to for instance format drives and not have them corrupt if you close the format app. Thus we can’t format drives in iPadOS. To change background threads you have to let them run in the background and that kills battery and build up heat in the thinnest device Apple has made.
Same for me but that’s not so much due to iPadOS but more due to Microsoft not having feature parity with the windows version of Office 365 apps (excel mostly).

I’ll always need a professional windows machine. However, I don’t need a MacBook. The iPad Pro can work as a great companion device (notes, communication, reading reports) while at the same time being the perfect home computer.
Now I do have an iMac, but that’s not a device I need, just one I want. If I have to choose tomorrow, the iPad Pro remains, the iMac goes.

And yes you can do these things with an iPad Air or normal iPad too, but “pro’ in apple’s mind just means top hardware, not so much top software.

A M3 MacBook Pro is just as capable as an M3 Macbook Air (Yeah sure the active cooling is going to add a tiny bit of flex to really heavy workflows) An iPhone pro is just as capable as a regular iPhone.

Apple clearly sees this model as a winning one, so it’ll never change unless the sales take a dive because of it.
 

PaperMag

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Absolutely brilliant! You must immediately give your expert counsel to YouTubers like Christopher Lawley, who disposed of his Mac and does all of his content creation for his successful channel on an iPad Pro (using Final Cut Pro), and enlighten him on how he's foolishly wasting his time and money on his "glorified iPhone."
Thats quite the experiment for a YouTuber.

Is going all in on an iPad Pro scalable for the 25 million people buying iPad Pros?

Edit: seems Christopher Lawley couldn’t get his work done so he bought another Mac.
 
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xxFoxtail

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Nov 8, 2015
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Just proves there’s a whole lof of nuance between “glorified iPhone” and “perefect all in one tool”

Some professionals can use their iPad pro’s to do their work on. For some it’s a companion device.
To be fair, I’ve been using an iPad Pro since 2018 as my main and sometimes only device. It has been completely fine for my personal and professional usage.

One day I just decided to move back to a MacBook and sell the iPad. Which using the Mac again also has been fine. Sometimes I miss the iPad, but I think I ended up making the better choice, especially after WWDC. Being able to view and control my iPhone from it will be a big feature for me.
 

Rogifan

macrumors Penryn
Original poster
Nov 14, 2011
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What's wrong with picking a Mac and a $349 iPad....? I'll bet it probably goes on sale for $299 or less pretty often....
Because I’d rather have just one device (along with my phone) and wish it could be the iPad?
 

prospervic

macrumors 65816
Aug 2, 2007
1,154
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NYC
Thats quite the experiment for a YouTuber.

Is going all in on an iPad Pro scalable for the 25 million people buying iPad Pros?

Edit: seems Christopher Lawley couldn’t get his work done so he bought another Mac.
You’re referencing a much older video. Six months ago Lawley proudly proclaimed that he was “Mac free“.
And it’s not just Youtubers, bondr006 on this forum boasts of how he runs his entire real estate business from his iPad Pro.

I agree that these folks are the outliers. A far greater proportion of iPad owners, including myself, use their device as a compliment to their Mac. Why lug my hulking, heavy 16 inch MacBook Pro out on a day trip when my 12.9” M1 iPad Pro will work just as well for writing, research, emailing, photo and video editing?

Plus, there are many millions who are delighted by the lightness and flexibility of the tablet form factor and touchscreen input. For them, being restricted to a physical keyboard and mouse seems rather quaint.

It’s OK if you prefer macOS and iPadOS doesn’t work for you, but calling iPad a “glorified iPhone“ betrays ignorance of its full capabilities and professional uses.
 
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Rogifan

macrumors Penryn
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Nov 14, 2011
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There are many reasons for a non specialist computer such an iPad. The specialist constitute to 5-20% of the population. Explain why the rest should not have a dedicated computer suitable for them?

What is the point of powers-user tablets when perfectly nice Macs exists? What would be the advantage of a tablet for a developer over a Mac?
Do you think a MacBook Air is a specialist computer? What defines what a specialist computer is? Whether the operating system is or touch or not?
 
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Rogifan

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Nov 14, 2011
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Same for me but that’s not so much due to iPadOS but more due to Microsoft not having feature parity with the windows version of Office 365 apps (excel mostly).

I’ll always need a professional windows machine. However, I don’t need a MacBook. The iPad Pro can work as a great companion device (notes, communication, reading reports) while at the same time being the perfect home computer.
Now I do have an iMac, but that’s not a device I need, just one I want. If I have to choose tomorrow, the iPad Pro remains, the iMac goes.

And yes you can do these things with an iPad Air or normal iPad too, but “pro’ in apple’s mind just means top hardware, not so much top software.

A M3 MacBook Pro is just as capable as an M3 Macbook Air (Yeah sure the active cooling is going to add a tiny bit of flex to really heavy workflows) An iPhone pro is just as capable as a regular iPhone.

Apple clearly sees this model as a winning one, so it’ll never change unless the sales take a dive because of it.
Regarding Microsoft, I get why bringing VBA to other platforms might be difficult (or not even possible) but pivot tables? I don’t know anyone who uses Excel who hasn’t used pivot tables. To me that is core functionality of Excel that should exist on every platform.
 

Rogifan

macrumors Penryn
Original poster
Nov 14, 2011
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I don’t. I leave that up to the experts that created my tablet of choice which is the iPad. They (Apple) know infinitely more than me about the subject, so I respect that and defer to their judgment. When they release new iPadOS features I take the time to learn about them and how they should be used. This approach has served me well and allowed me to enjoy and be productive professionally and personally with every iPad I’ve had — starting from my purchase of the original iPad on day one to my present 13” M4 iPad Pro.
Was Apple’s judgment correct when they released the trash can Mac Pro? The one port MacBook? The touchbar MacBook Pro? Butterfly keyboard?
 
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richpjr

macrumors 68040
May 9, 2006
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Some professionals can use their iPad pro’s to do their work on. For some it’s a companion device.
This sums it up well. It all depends on your workflow. If your workflow is straightforward enough that it can be done on an iPad than you are set. Others simply can't due to a well-documented list of missing features and limitations in iPadOS and must look to other devices.
 
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klasma

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Jun 8, 2017
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There are many reasons for a non specialist computer such an iPad. The specialist constitute to 5-20% of the population. Explain why the rest should not have a dedicated computer suitable for them?
I didn’t say those shouldn’t and couldn’t exist. Conversely, why should the rest not also have a non-power-user Apple laptop? (something like Chromebooks)

But there is actually an argument, in that some portion of non-power users can grow into being power users just by the OS providing discoverable power-user features. It’s not a dichotomy, and nobody was born a power user.

Lastly, my parents for example perceive iPadOS to be complex and often inscrutable, which exemplifies how iPads don’t always do a very good job at being intuitively usable for computer-illiterate users.

I would characterize current iPadOS to be somewhere in between, neither fish nor fowl.

What is the point of powers-user tablets when perfectly nice Macs exists?
Tablets enable different use cases and workflows, by virtue of having a touch screen and having a single-slate form factor. I don’t subscribe to the line of argument that touch screens somehow inherently imply a limitation for more sophisticated use.

Power user vs. non-power user is orthogonal to the choice of tablet vs. laptop.
 
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PaperMag

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You’re referencing a much older video. Six months ago Lawley proudly proclaimed that he was “Mac free“.
And it’s not just Youtubers, bondr006 on this forum boasts of how he runs his entire real estate business from his iPad Pro.

I agree that these folks are the outliers. A far greater proportion of iPad owners, including myself, use their device as a compliment to their Mac. Why lug my hulking, heavy 16 inch MacBook Pro out on a day trip when my 12.9” iPad Pro will work just as well for writing, research, emailing, photo and video editing?

Plus, there are many millions who are delighted by the lightness and flexibility of the tablet form factor and touchscreen input. For them, being restricted to a physical keyboard and mouse seems rather quaint.

It’s OK if you prefer macOS and iPadOS doesn’t work for you, but calling iPad a “glorified iPhone“ betrays ignorance of its full capabilities and professional uses.

You're correct that people are hyperbolic in calling it a glorified iPhone. As you made the case, the iPad Pro is great for writing, research, emailing, art, photo and video editing...

yet Apple intentionally handicaps iPadOS so that the "last mile" of getting things done is just clunky and impeding enough, and that app developers are artificially limited in background processing and other "low hanging fruit" as Federico Viticci put it. It appears Apple is "weaponizing incompetence" to keep iPad Pro as a supplementary device.

ANSWER THIS QUESTION: Why is it that every device in the world, including Apple TV 4K, has multiple account login, but iPad Pro with the most advanced chip architecture in Apple's lineup can't have multiple accounts?

Is Apple "weaponizing incompetence" in the software domain, or does the iPad Pro have a hardware limitation that prevents multiple account login?
 
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Isengardtom

macrumors 65816
Feb 14, 2009
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ANSWER THIS QUESTION: Why is it that every device in the world, including Apple TV 4K, has multiple account login, but iPad Pro with the most advanced chip architecture in Apple's lineup can't have multiple accounts?

Is Apple "weaponizing incompetence" in the software domain, or does the iPad Pro have a hardware limitation that prevents multiple account login?
This is indeed a valid point of criticism they should address. Every iPad should get this, not only the pro. So in that regard it’s not to do with the ”pro” lineup though
 
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