Dave2D has NAILED the new iPadPro

[Brammy]

Yes, this describes pro work for a significant percentage of business workers. Another example: many corporate applications and intranets don't work in mobile OS browsers.

When it comes to corporate work, I generally take the iPad out of discussion anyway. Most of us just get handed whatever the current corporate standard our company uses. Even if I was able to do every single task for my day job on my iPad, i couldn't use it at work due to corporate policies.

 

[Raist3001]

First, you’re missing the point. There are fundamental truths and realities with engineering and product design and human beings. For instance, if you make a tablet screen too big, it ceases to become holdable, and then fails at being a tablet, so the ceiling of how large a tablet screen size can be is limited.

If you make hit targets in a GUI too small and close together, multi-touch fails because of inefficiencies and spurious inputs.

Nobody cares how many people want mouse support just like nobody cares about putting wings on a lawnmower. It doesn’t matter because nobody can change reality: that we’re barely evolved past a gorilla and use mobile devices that we hold in our gorilla hands interacting with pictures under glass.

The fact that some people want mouse support on a smartphone operating system designed for meaty fingers and smaller, battery powered devices changes nothing: it doesn’t mean it makes any sense or will happen. What it does do is say something about those people who want that...

Barely evolved past a gorilla? That's a odd tangent.....
Unfortunately, you did not answer my question at all. My question sought to understand a few points made by others. Primarily, how does anyone know what the percentage is for folks who want or don't want a feature? Features are not a bad thing. Like 3D touch. Some use it, some don't. Does not mean the feature is bad. Having mouse support would be a feature that you could use or not use. If I wish to replace my Laptop, which has a trackpad, and mouse support with a tablet, I would like to be able to use any input device of my choice. It may not make sense to you, but it does to others. I am not sure as to what this says about people who wish for the feature as you have pointed out. Other than wishing for a feature that hurts no one, nor cripples the iOS experience.
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First off, thunderstorm forecasts have nothing to do with this argument.

Secondly, of the hundreds of millions of iPads sold, there are only a small bunch of people who have been going online and complaining that they can’t use the damned things fully until they have mouse support. Some of us are pointing this fact out because in group-social media, a few people commenting on a thread may make themselves seem like a lot if they are loud and abundant, while the actual number of people who actually care are infinitely small.

Only a small bunch? How have you come to this belief?
A few people commenting on a thread? How many social sites have you visited to conclude only a 'few people'?
The actual number of people are infinitely small? What statistics have you studied to show this is true?

 

[Mockenrue]

When it comes to corporate work, I generally take the iPad out of discussion anyway. Most of us just get handed whatever the current corporate standard our company uses. Even if I was able to do every single task for my day job on my iPad, i couldn't use it at work due to corporate policies.

At my company (50K+ employees), there is increasing demand for tablet form factors like Surface and iPad for both corporate and customer-facing workloads that don't necessarily fit them. I was just in a discussion yesterday about this very topic: educating the lines of business about tablet limitations and tradeoffs. We have to manage unrealistic expectations - made worse by marketing hype.

 

[seadragon]

Barely evolved past a gorilla? That's a odd tangent.....
Unfortunately, you did not answer my question at all. My question sought to understand a few points made by others. Primarily, how does anyone know what the percentage is for folks who want or don't want a feature? Features are not a bad thing. Like 3D touch. Some use it, some don't. Does not mean the feature is bad. Having mouse support would be a feature that you could use or not use. If I wish to replace my Laptop, which has a trackpad, and mouse support with a tablet, I would like to be able to use any input device of my choice. It may not make sense to you, but it does to others. I am not sure as to what this says about people who wish for the feature as you have pointed out. Other than wishing for a feature that hurts no one, nor cripples the iOS experience.
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Only a small bunch? How have you come to this belief?
A few people commenting on a thread? How many social sites have you visited to conclude only a 'few people'?
The actual number of people are infinitely small? What statistics have you studied to show this is true?

Exactly. I keep reading posts dismissing the supposedly "few" people that may desire this functionality based on posts in a forum thread. That makes the assumption that anybody that would potentially desire or find useful, mouse support, would be vocal about it and post up online. I would bet that there are a great many that would just start using it without any fuss if Apple were to make it an option. People that have never have posted online about it. They would just see another tool in the toolbox and use it. Then, there are those that might not realize now how useful it would be. Sometimes, just by offering a new tool or capability, it gives more flexibility to someone once they use it who might never have thought about it before.

 

[Brammy]

At my company (50K+ employees), there is increasing demand for tablet form factors like Surface and iPad for both corporate and customer-facing workloads that don't necessarily fit them.

I have worked in IT pretty much my entire career. We have always fought this battle on what end users want, and what corporate IS can, and wants to support. IS was initially very hesitant to even support the iPhone because Blackberry was the standard.

There is a use for tablets in corporate america, but not for general worker bees.

 

[kngelv]

This is such an odd thread. So called Apple purists are arguing with those who want a greater variety of input devices as if they are trying to change scripture or something. When Steve Jobs brought the first one out on stage it was all about what you could do with just a finger. Apple has since come out with keyboards and pencils which deviates from this. How is it ok for Apple to deviate but complain about others who might want to go a bit further. Apple is the one marketing it as a laptop replacement while limiting its functionality. I love my 10.5 Pro as a media consumption device but there is no way it can replace my laptop. There are too many basic laptop functions that need workarounds on an iPad which is the opposite of Apple's usual way of making things easier. I once wrote a twenty page term paper on an iPad Air during breaks and lunches at work. Editing it though was far too unwieldy on the iPad and I had to transfer it through iTunes to my laptop where editing was much faster. I don't think its too much to ask for - at a minimum - a trackpad on the vastly overpriced Apple keyboards.

James

 

[GermanSuplex]

I purchased the 12.9 iPad Pro and while the screen, multi-touch response and audio is great (as is the overall design), I just can't see myself spending the premium over the more traditional model that came out earlier this year. Its essentially the same OS withe a couple fewer bells for almost a quarter of the price. I'll be exchanging it for the model that came out earlier this year.

When you add in the more expensive Apple Pencil and keyboard folio to the Pro, you're adding another $300.

The storage on the device I can only see as being useful for people who work with large photo libraries, lots of video and uncompressed audio, or simply want to store all their media and content on the device.

It simply needs a more robust operating system to make the hardware worthwhile. It's like building a car capable of hauling ass at 300mph and only getting to drive it in a 30mph zone.

 

[RudySnow]

Barely evolved past a gorilla? That's a odd tangent.....
Unfortunately, you did not answer my question at all. My question sought to understand a few points made by others. Primarily, how does anyone know what the percentage is for folks who want or don't want a feature? Features are not a bad thing. Like 3D touch. Some use it, some don't. Does not mean the feature is bad. Having mouse support would be a feature that you could use or not use. If I wish to replace my Laptop, which has a trackpad, and mouse support with a tablet, I would like to be able to use any input device of my choice. It may not make sense to you, but it does to others. I am not sure as to what this says about people who wish for the feature as you have pointed out. Other than wishing for a feature that hurts no one, nor cripples the iOS experience.
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Only a small bunch? How have you come to this belief?
A few people commenting on a thread? How many social sites have you visited to conclude only a 'few people'?
The actual number of people are infinitely small? What statistics have you studied to show this is true?

What do you have to show my point otherwise? Where is this marching band of millions you seem to be familiar with? Where is your evidence?

 

[Knowimagination]

This is such an odd thread. So called Apple purists are arguing with those who want a greater variety of input devices as if they are trying to change scripture or something. When Steve Jobs brought the first one out on stage it was all about what you could do with just a finger. Apple has since come out with keyboards and pencils which deviates from this. How is it ok for Apple to deviate but complain about others who might want to go a bit further. Apple is the one marketing it as a laptop replacement while limiting its functionality. I love my 10.5 Pro as a media consumption device but there is no way it can replace my laptop. There are too many basic laptop functions that need workarounds on an iPad which is the opposite of Apple's usual way of making things easier. I once wrote a twenty page term paper on an iPad Air during breaks and lunches at work. Editing it though was far too unwieldy on the iPad and I had to transfer it through iTunes to my laptop where editing was much faster. I don't think its too much to ask for - at a minimum - a trackpad on the vastly overpriced Apple keyboards.

James

Did you read the thread? Lots of us have expressed over and over again the differences between keyboard and pencil and mouse/trackpad support.

We get it some people want the iPad to just be another laptop some of us don’t that’s the gist of this thread and I wouldn’t call it odd, it’s to be expected honestly different people want different things and that’s fine.

 

[DaveOZ]

Surely people can comprehend that everyone’s work is different. Some work as a cleaner and don’t need a computer. Some are engineers and need high end BIM CAD and complex spreadsheets.

This is a non-argument. The iPad is another tech tool, use it for whatever you want but don’t try to force it to do things it’s not good at. I have 3 iPads, a desktop computer and 2 laptops. I’m lucky, I can afford it but they all make my work and home life easier. No one device could do all of it though, but that’s just for me.

 

[tigres]

They go on and on about how "fast" the new iPads are, which is great, but they're also still hobbled by clunky multitasking, a lack of pointer support (especially egregious when an external display is connected), and a filesystem that has been abstracted and sandboxed away into absurdity.

Apple (and lots of fanboys) go on and on about how these things are great for getting work done, how they can replace your laptop, etc., and I have to wonder, what kind of work are people doing? Because for me, in order to do my work I need to be able to refer to multiple different source documents in multiple different formats. I need to be able to quickly manipulate blocks of text, images, charts, etc., and without filesystem access, a mouse pointer, and windowed multitasking it quickly goes from tedious to torturous.

So, I'm sure lots of folks can "work" on an iPad, but I'm not one of them, not really. Writing on an iPad? Great fun. Completing a writing project on an iPad? Impossible.

So, seriously, when people say they can do their "work" on an iPad, what are they doing? I'm genuinely curious.

Our company does software implementations, and I have seen as of recent a room full of people running iPad 12.9's on VDI. (horizon) full on, and not touching a computer in the room.

 

[jeremiah256]

Yes, this describes pro work for a significant percentage of business workers. Another example: many corporate applications and intranets don't work in mobile OS browsers.

I don't blame Apple for targeting professional buyers, but I'm starting to get annoyed by the constant framing of "pro" as article writer and/or video editor by the tech press - presumably because that's how people work in their circles. But the majority of us do much less glamorous work that may be cumbersome or not viable at all on an iPad.

Over the last day or so, I've been looking at videos of different reviewers using the new USB-C port, specifically when it's attached to an external display. I'm interested in their setups and workflows. As expected, most of the reviewers so far come from the creative group and Adobe's Max 2018 presentative had a very nice demo of what's to come in 2019. But like you, I'm looking for use cases in the business environment where having external monitor support, but no pointer, is of benefit to the user.

I know of at least two senior managers who travel exclusively with their iPads and even when back in their office, only use a laptop when they want the large screen display. Like you said, most office workers are not doing anything glamorous or tasks that can't be handled by either an iPad or Chromebook.

 

[AlexJoda]

Our company does software implementations, and I have seen as of recent a room full of people running iPad 12.9's on VDI. (horizon) full on, and not touching a computer in the room.

I am using my 12.9 iPP all the time for Windows remote support but also for touch based work. But for regular remote work as a user it does not make much sense to buy a $1200-2000 iPad with keyboard and a $160 mouse. Because you need a keyboard and a mouse/trackpad anyway you can take every standard $500 notebook or a even cheaper chromebook for that. Even if you want something light and nice like a MacBook Air this would be make more sense for that use case...

 

[Raist3001]

What do you have to show my point otherwise? Where is this marching band of millions you seem to be familiar with? Where is your evidence?

Now you are just moving the goal posts and fabricating words that were never said. I asked a question, and I challenged your claims. The burden of proof is on you, not me.

 

[maflynn]

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[seadragon]

Mouse support would in no way negatively affect the iPad, iOS, or users. It would be completely optional to use.

And when Apple introduces mouse support, we’ll resurrect this thread and have a party.

It's time to have that party I guess. It's VERY interesting looking back in this thread and reading the posts against the idea of using of a mouse with an iPad. It appears Dave2D really did nail it.

 

[Jonathantuba]

The mouse support is not something which I will personally likely to use, but I am pleased it is available for those that have wanted.

The genius of iPadOS is that it makes the iPad more suitable for power users, while still retaining the simplicity that it has always had for those that just want to use as a simple consumer device. Thank you Apple!

 

[AlexJoda]

The mouse support is not something which I will personally likely to use, but I am pleased it is available for those that have wanted.

The genius of iPadOS is that it makes the iPad more suitable for power users, while still retaining the simplicity that it has always had for those that just want to use as a simple consumer device. Thank you Apple!

Exactly that. The only thing still missing is the extended external display mode so that you cannot only mirror the display but use the full resolution of it as an additional display. For that use cases you need a mouse because it is the only possible input device....

 

[subjonas]

Exactly that. The only thing still missing is the extended external display mode so that you cannot only mirror the display but use the full resolution of it as an additional display. For that use cases you need a mouse because it is the only possible input device....

Seeing as mouse is only an accessibility feature, I don’t see Apple wanting to encourage more mouse use with extended display. It’s possible, but I almost think it’s more likely that Apple comes out with a touch display. But both seem unlikely to me really.

 

[supertiffany]

And tell me one app example on which a mouse on current iOS would help you please.

Excel, duh.

 

[seadragon]

The guy who posted the following drivel in this thread is now using a mouse with his iPad. Imagine that.

"LOL. Right on, right on. I wonder why these mouse fanboys aren’t screaming for mouse support in CarPlayOS and tvOS. They’re based on OSX, too!
Hey, wait a minute... tvOS can already link to a Bluetooth keyboard, right? Wouldn’t adding a mouse just be a simple add since the remote already controls a cursor?
I WANT MOUSE SUPPORT ON MY APPLE TV! QUIT LAUGHING AT ME! YOU’RE ALL WRONG!!!"

"I don’t find any compelling points that you have ever made as to why an iPad should have mouse support. ZERO. You’re just trolling at this point, telling people how wrong they are and offering no concrete, real-world examples as to why a mouse deserves a place in iOS. Honestly, if you say you just have to agree to disagree, why do you keep coming back and disagreeing? I can’t wait for WWDC19 when Apple doesn’t introduce mouse support so I don’t have to bring chips and salsa to your fiesta."

"If you can’t understand why mouse support is utterly ridiculous for iPad, well, that’s your issue."

"Oh, gee, lookee... yet ANOTHER The iPad Isn’t a Real Computer™ until it has mouse support/a real file system/makes my coffee thread."

"Apple has been selling mice for, what, 40 years now? Don’t you pro-Mickey Mouse people honestly believe that if Apple saw a compelling need to add mouse support to an iPad they would’ve done so already?"

And those don't include the posts that got deleted. LOL.

 

[upritbass]

Exactly that. The only thing still missing is the extended external display mode so that you cannot only mirror the display but use the full resolution of it as an additional display. For that use cases you need a mouse because it is the only possible input device....

LumaFusion 2.0 can use an external display without a mouse....

 

[AlexJoda]

LumaFusion 2.0 can use an external display without a mouse....

Maybe, but then you have to go back and forth between the iPad and the external display which in annoying and unproductive. The same problem as working with a keyboard and switching to the display for pointing something. You need an indirect pointing device like a mouse if you are working with another indirect input devices like a keyboard or with an additional display.

Touch input only was OK as long as the iPad was used mainly for consumption (no heavy input) but as soon as the iPad was used for production the mouse or pencil or trackpad or keyboard (all indirect input devices) is essential....

 

[sracer]

The guy who posted the following drivel in this thread is now using a mouse with his iPad. Imagine that.

[ ..snipped.. ]

And those don't include the posts that got deleted. LOL.

It's the nature of many Apple enthusiasts. Something isn't a "thing" until Apple says it is. Whether it is a keyboard cover, active stylus, external storage support, or mouse.

I no longer try to convince others of the value of things that aren't currently available, but rather give reasons why I believe them to be for the sake of anyone else who might stumble across my posts and have similar preferences.

I don't rub their face in it, but welcome them to the party (better late than never) with the hope that they'll consider that I saw something at the time that they didn't and will be more open in the future to the opinions of people who have perspectives different than their own.

 

[AlexJoda]

Exactly that. The only thing still missing is the extended external display mode so that you cannot only mirror the display but use the full resolution of it as an additional display. For that use cases you need a mouse because it is the only possible input device....

Just one question to the "insiders" here: The Lightning to HDMI adapter from the earlier iPad Pros is not a converter but a kind of small computer that "streams the output signal to a kind of hardwired AirPlay device" (https://www.cultofmac.com/218192/apples-lightning-digital-av-adapter-has-an-incredible-secret/).

Because of the MPEG compression the image quality is not so great the the resolution is very limited. Is this different with the USB-C iPads? Do we have now the same external image quality as with USB-C Notebooks?