Department of Justice and FTC Looking Into Beeper iMessage Controversy

[spazzcat]

Apple acts like a grade-school bully. In the end, I think Apple’s anticompetitive behavior will end up leading to parts of it being broken up. Remember when Microsoft was split up over browser influence? Companies have been allowed to grow into these giant anticompetitive forces now that destroy all competition, steal IP and even steal from its own developers! Really want Apple to be investigated and things to change.

It would be better for all of us. I love a lot of Apple things, but I hate the ecosystem that acts like a monopoly. And the vertical integration of the entire pipeline looks like a monopoly.

My perfect iPhone would be a Galaxy Ultra operating on an A17 Pro with iOS running.

My perfect computer would be an iPad running MacOS or a Thinkpad running MacOS. I don’t think companies should be forced to sell other companies products but I do think the vast size of Apple is good for nobody except maybe Tim and the top 1% of shareholders.

If Apple was split into six or seven companies, they would all be better. And interoperability would be a feature among all devices. Instead of a walled garden approach. It’s sticky as investors say, but it’s also anticompetitive. Investors will keep investing in these companies with monopolistic practices until someone puts an end to it. Build it all in America and then it at least builds up our economy. But there is just no advantage right now to allowing one company to control so much.

They have no obligation to support android and they are adding RCS next year.

 

[ozaz]

There's nothing anticompetitive about keeping their work on their devices only. Other texting apps exist on iOS. Apple allows that. They aren't allowing others to use THEIR work.

I agree with you that Apple should not be forced to make their services available on other devices. However, other texting apps don't exist on iOS. Other IP-messaging apps do exist (WhatsApp, Signal, etc), but Apple does not allow anyone other than itself to create a IP-based messaging app on iOS with regular text message (SMS) fallback. To me, this seems anticompetitive.

 

[Premium1]

Tim Apple needs to have his Android team publish an official iMessages app for that platform. Restricting people who used Android phones from being able to communicate is a form of discrimination.

Apple knows iMessage is a lock in hence why they never released an iMessage app on android years ago.

 

[klasma]

Hopefully the American people come to their collective senses and vote these anti-corporate politicians out of office.

Please note that this is a bipartisan move: https://techcrunch.com/2023/12/18/u...gate-apple-for-blocking-beepers-imessage-app/

 

[klasma]

If we (in the states) can agree to move to a cross-platform messaging app... this whole situation would be mute.

It might even be moot.

 

[Premium1]

It's a blue bubble. Zero reason this should be a Government inquiry.

Apple should release iMessage as an app and require a paid iCloud subscription for those that want to use the service.

The blue bubble is literally like .0001% of the issue (unless you are a preteen or still live in your parent's basement). The lack of security (SMS is garbage) and not even getting into the group messaging aspect of it is more of an issue than the color of the bubbles.

 

[Eriamjh1138@DAN]

RCS makes this moot. The politicians move too slowly and basically are already done for the year until like Jan 9 or even 16th.

 

[macfacts]

There's nothing anticompetitive about keeping their work on their devices only. Other texting apps exist on iOS. Apple allows that. They aren't allowing others to use THEIR work.

Apple should have patented iMessage

 

[mookc1]

All this over blue bubbles.......If folks want interoperability, get one of the third party apps. Sounds like sour grapes from Android users.

 

[Jimmy Bubbles]

Yeah nothing's gonna come of this. The FTC has been a joke under Lina Khan as evident from how they fumbled the Apple vs Epic appeal, fumbled blocking Meta's acquisition of VR fitness app Supernatural, and fumbled tremendously at trying to stop Microsoft from buying Activision. She has no legal grounds and has been just wasting bureau funds on lawsuits on Big Tech just to have those cases on her resume, even if they're big failures.

More like the FUMBLE Trade Commission, amirite?

 

[jimothyGator]

I completely understand it's Apple's system... no arguing with you.

But you have completely dismissed how much of an influence iMessage has over in the states and that's why the DOJ is looking into it.

Here's how the DOJ and FTC act in recent decades:

If you create a product or service that people like too much and becomes too popular, then people who have never created anything of value and who don't understand technology or business will force you to open that service to other companies that didn't invest the resources you did. And they do all this while pretending to protect consumers, yet every time they take action, it's because some other business wants unearned access. For example: Netscape, Sun/Oracle, Epic, and now Beeper.

Beeper is complaining because they want to take Apple's innovation, investment, and resources, and piggyback on them for free.

Apple creating a valuable service—iMessage—is not a crime or a tort, and it's competive, not anti-competitive. Other messaging platforms exist and have found success—Facebook Messenger, Snapchat, WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, etc.—despite none of them being interoperable with iMessage (nor, if I'm not mistaken, RCS). They find their success by being better or different, and appealing to different niches. That's what competition is about.

 

[spazzcat]

The blue bubble is literally like .0001% of the issue (unless you are a preteen or still live in your parent's basement). The lack of security (SMS is garbage) and not even getting into the group messaging aspect of it is more of an issue than the color of the bubbles.

And they are changing that next year.

 

[cmChimera]

I completely understand it's Apple's system... no arguing with you.

But you have completely dismissed how much of an influence iMessage has over in the states and that's why the DOJ is looking into it.


Definitely, I agree with you. If Apple does not want another company accessing their servers without permission... then that's a problem.

But it's the chicken and egg situation. If Apple allowed iMessage for Android... then Beeper wouldn't be concerned with doing it.

That argument could be used for any tech/app on another platform. I’m sure Microsoft would be happy if Nintendo released Mario Kart for Xbox, but that doesn’t mean Microsoft can just do it themselves. Apple can release iMessage for Android if and when they want to. But it’s ultimately their choice.

 

[DailySlow]

I think you're way off. We, Apple's customers want that so-called "walled garden". It's a free choice. It's a tough crowd and a real bad neighborhood out there and opening up (by fiat!) a back alley into my little garden is a bad idea. Slowly and with extreme vetting it's opening up but never in a social-media driven influence flood, please. Requiring Apple to toss its security standards in order to accommodate millions of non-customers is like the ultimate wokism.

 

[Abazigal]

I highly doubt anything will come out of the investigation.

 

[cmChimera]

Tim Apple needs to have his Android team publish an official iMessages app for that platform. Restricting people who used Android phones from being able to communicate is a form of discrimination.

lol no it’s not. C’mon y’all.

 

[ozaz]

RCS makes this moot. The politicians move too slowly and basically are already done for the year until like Jan 9 or even 16th.

I'm very glad Apple has decided to support RCS. But the only reason they're doing it is because politicians/regulators have been sniffing around iMessage.

 

[msackey]

For those who are on the side of Apple and wants to keep iMessage on their iPhones... need to understand that allowing iMessage on Android benefits you (shocker!).

You won't have to be concerned about "oh, they have an Android... I don't care to message them." Look at the data from teenagers and especially in the dating world. It removes that barrier. And I know you might be wondering... well, there's plenty of other messaging platforms to exchange messages with for Android users.

But the issue is that most iPhone users IN THE US... gravitate toward iMessage. If we (in the states) can agree to move to a cross-platform messaging app... this whole situation would be mute.

In a sense, I don't disagree. But from another perspective, Apple shouldn't have to be forced to make sure that devices that aren't theirs can be checked via their security means to ensure that it is safe. I'm probably not putting this correctly, but let me try it this way. iMessage (the Blue Bubbles version) is supposed to only work between Apple devices as this is a way Apple can ensure encryption and security. To open it up to Android devices also means needing to ensure a wider array of OS's and devices meet criteria. Should Apple be made to do that work, or should they just break their own iMessage system so it no longer ensures encryption, security, etc.?

I don't know if this a correct analogy, but let's pivot to thinking about videoconferencing systems and lets pick Zoom as equivalent of Apple. Now, we have Beeper coming in, hacking their way into Zoom system so it uses Zoom servers but not Zoom apps, although both Beeper and Zoom users can use their respective apps to log into a Zoom conference. Does that make sense? Is there a case to say that Zoom is being anticompetitive here? Should Zoom open up their platform so that Beeper application can make use of Zoom servers, etc.?

 

[Ludatyk]

Apple creating a valuable service—iMessage—is not a crime or a tort, and it's competive, not anti-competitive. Other messaging platforms exist and have found success—Facebook Messenger, Snapchat, WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, etc.—despite none of them being interoperable with iMessage (nor, if I'm not mistaken, RCS). They find their success by being better or different, and appealing to different niches. That's what competition is about.

But apps you are comparing iMessage to... are cross-platform apps.

And therein lies the issue.

 

[klasma]

RCS makes this moot.

That remains to be seen. If Apple do their proprietary version of RCS like Google did, or if it remains regionally restricted due to requiring provider buy-in, not a lot will be solved.

 

[DeepWebinar]

The end of this seems to be that no company will be allowed to innovate and protect its creations and technologies because some whiny little guy with an app is miffed that he can't make money off someone else's hard work.

if innovation means we continue to only have two platforms run by two massive corporations that suck making billions by intentionally keeping their users locked into their boring platforms then i’m fine with no more innovation

 

[DailySlow]

Tim Apple needs to have his Android team publish an official iMessages app for that platform. Restricting people who used Android phones from being able to communicate is a form of discrimination.

Ahem."They" are NOT "restricted" from sending me an SMS text. It's unclear - are you intimating there's like a universal green bubble population discrimination issue here?

 

[bcortens]

Apple acts like a grade-school bully. In the end, I think Apple’s anticompetitive behavior will end up leading to parts of it being broken up. Remember when Microsoft was split up over browser influence? Companies have been allowed to grow into these giant anticompetitive forces now that destroy all competition, steal IP and even steal from its own developers! Really want Apple to be investigated and things to change.

It would be better for all of us. I love a lot of Apple things, but I hate the ecosystem that acts like a monopoly. And the vertical integration of the entire pipeline looks like a monopoly.

My perfect iPhone would be a Galaxy Ultra operating on an A17 Pro with iOS running.

My perfect computer would be an iPad running MacOS or a Thinkpad running MacOS. I don’t think companies should be forced to sell other companies products but I do think the vast size of Apple is good for nobody except maybe Tim and the top 1% of shareholders.

If Apple was split into six or seven companies, they would all be better. And interoperability would be a feature among all devices. Instead of a walled garden approach. It’s sticky as investors say, but it’s also anticompetitive. Investors will keep investing in these companies with monopolistic practices until someone puts an end to it. Build it all in America and then it at least builds up our economy. But there is just no advantage right now to allowing one company to control so much.

While I generally agree that Apple is behaving badly, Beeper is a bad example of it, there is no law nor any real justification that requires companies that design a messaging protocol allow any other company to integrate that protocol into their own product. This is like saying Facebook should open up the messenger and WhatsApp protocols to let anyone build an app around them.

Apple as 6 or 7 companies would not be better, they would be worse at almost everything, integration gives Apple the ability to tailor their software to their hardware.

There are a few areas where Apple's push for service revenue is compromising quality:
I think Apple's foray's into streaming television and other services have been a bad move as they are leading to compromised app experiences, look at music, the TV app, without a subscription to see how bad these apps have become and how much Apple wants to chase that subscription service revenue instead of crafting a great product.

Paid search results in the App Store is obviously compromising quality search results.

The App Store commission creates perverse incentives around App Store policies encouraging scummy gambling game practices which Apple has not seen fit to discourage because they make so much money.

 

[Timpetus]

I’m going on a hunger strike until this iMessage humanitarian crisis is resolved.

Nice knowing you!

 

[jimothyGator]

But apps you are comparing iMessage to... are cross-platform apps.

And therein lies the issue.

Oh so you're saying there are cross platform messaging apps? Fantastic. Sounds like there's no monopoly.