Department of Justice and FTC Looking Into Beeper iMessage Controversy

[erikkfi]

In a 2013 internal email, Craig Federighi opposed putting iMessage on Android because it "would simply serve to remove [an] obstacle to iPhone families giving their kids Android phones."

Security and privacy are not Apple's reasons for not putting iMessage on Android. It's competition, exploiting teenage peer pressure, et cetera.

 

[bcortens]

It really doesn’t, imo. But okay I understand YMMV.

If you don't care about importing your messaging history it really doesn't prevent switching.
If you do care about importing message history then the problem isn't the fact that iMessage is only on Apple but that you can't actually move messaging history from one app to another. I can't switch from iMessage to Messenger for example or from WhatsApp to iMessage.

 

[bcortens]

In a 2013 internal email, Craig Federighi opposed putting iMessage on Android because it "would simply serve to remove [an] obstacle to iPhone families giving their kids Android phones."

Security and privacy are not Apple's reasons for not putting iMessage on Android. It's competition, exploiting teenage peer pressure, et cetera.

Sure, Apple doesn't want to give away a competitive advantage. Isn't that how competition is supposed to work? They create an app that gives their platform an edge. If Google had something compelling maybe they could lure people to use it, it's not Apple's fault Google is failing to compete.

 

[Timpetus]

In a 2013 internal email, Craig Federighi opposed putting iMessage on Android because it "would simply serve to remove [an] obstacle to iPhone families giving their kids Android phones."

Security and privacy are not Apple's reasons for not putting iMessage on Android. It's competition, exploiting teenage peer pressure, et cetera.

Still good for me, as an Apple shareholder. I consider Apple maintaining their competitive advantage reason enough to keep iMessage to themselves.

 

[msackey]

But apps you are comparing iMessage to... are cross-platform apps.

And therein lies the issue.

Yes, they are cross-platform. Should Apple be made to offer their system on different platforms?

Apple's strategy has primarily been vertical integration of hardware and software. That's their model. Extending your argument, is this to say this is no longer an appropriate strategy?

 

[Ludatyk]

You can export your messaging history from the messaging protocol

What does that have to do with anything? I can't export iMessage to Android... can I?

I was genuinely asking why Apple users so vehemently against Android on iMessage and I'm told it creates value to their lifestyle. For some reason, it paints the picture of... some society elite group.

I'm starting to believe this cult-like behavior is really a thing.

 

[sparkinstx]

Beeper is basically using a hack (allowing Android devices to register as iOS devices) to make their solution work. If Apple can demonstrate that the hack violates their policies and security, then I think they a case to fend off Beeper.

 

[bcortens]

What does that have to do with anything? I can't export iMessage to Android... can I?

I was genuinely asking why Apple users so vehemently against Android on iMessage and I'm told it creates value to their lifestyle. For some reason, it paints the picture of... some society elite group.

I'm starting to believe this cult-like behavior is really a thing.

The thing is, that isn't just an iMessage problem.

You just can't move between messaging services and keep your history. Apple offering iMessage on android doesn't sole the core problem that messaging platforms prevent history export-import.

IMO there is a more legitimate question around messaging history import-export support but that isn't what people talk about.

 

[bcortens]

Beeper is basically using a hack (allowing Android devices to register as iOS devices) to make their solution work. If Apple can demonstrate that the hack violates their policies and security, then I think they a case to fend off Beeper.

I don't even think they need to do this, Beeper is operating a product that essentially is stealing access to Apple's server infrastructure. Apple doesn't offer access to its messaging service and any unauthorized access is essentially theft.

 

[Ludatyk]

Yes, they are cross-platform. Should Apple be made to offer their system on different platforms?

Apple's strategy has primarily been vertical integration of hardware and software. That's their model. Extending your argument, is this to say this is no longer an appropriate strategy?

But it's the idea... Apple pick and choose what to allow. iWork is cross-platform? iCloud suite of apps? And mind you... iMessage is now part of iCloud.

I wonder why what's the hold up with iMessage?

 

[JustAnExpat]

Remember when Microsoft was split up over browser influence?

No I don't. When did that happen?

 

[jimothyGator]

Not fantastic. Because in order to use iMessage I have no other option to buy an Apple device... that's not good look.

I don't understand why be against it. It helps everyone involved... including Apple users, answer me this... why do you not want iMessage on Android?

Yeah, Apple invested time, money, and other resources into creating iMessage to attract and retain iPhone customers. It gives them competitive advantage, and this means that other companies—whether they develop other phones, operating systems, or messaging apps—have to work harder if they also want to attract and retain customers. That's a good thing!

If companies are required to give away the goods once a product or service they create becomes too popular, then a) what is their incentive to develop the products and services in the first place, and b) what is the incentive for competitors or would-be competitors to create better products and services when they can just ride on the investments of other companies instead? How do customers benefit when companies are punished for creating something they—the customers—like?

As for iMessage on Android: I personally don't care one way or another. But just because you or I want it doesn't mean we deserve it or that Apple must be forced to deliver it. A gamer might want Zelda on Xbox; that doesn't mean Nintendo has to deliver it. Who's staffing the FTC and DOJ these days, Veruca Salt?

 

[jimothyGator]

No I don't. When did that happen?

It didn't.

 

[Ludatyk]

The thing is, that isn't just an iMessage problem.

You just can't move between messaging services and keep your history. Apple offering iMessage on android doesn't sole the core problem that messaging platforms prevent history export-import.

IMO there is a more legitimate question around messaging history import-export support but that isn't what people talk about.

Messaging history import-export support? Is that really an issue?

Because that's what cloud-syncing is designed for (especially when it comes to cross-platform) ... you can pick up your conversation from any device you sign into.

 

[centauratlas]

Again, as I stated... it's Apple system. It's their choice.

But these gaming companies is quite different from what's going in the states with iMessage... Heck, I could get Mario Kart on Android or iOS? Does iMessage exist cross-platform?

The kids want Mario Kart on the PS5, I think they want the FTC and DoJ to look at it.

 

[msackey]

But it's the idea... Apple pick and choose what to allow. iWork is cross-platform? iCloud suite of apps? And mind you... iMessage is now part of iCloud.

I wonder why what's the hold up with iMessage?

Yes, essentially Apple does pick and choose what it allows because it is their integration of hardware and software. I don't see an issue with that if we are working within the logics of how businesses work.

iWork is cross platform but only to a degree. It doesn't work on Linux though there is the web-based versions now.

 

[CarAnalogy]

There's nothing anticompetitive about keeping their work on their devices only. Other texting apps exist on iOS. Apple allows that. They aren't allowing others to use THEIR work.

The people downvoting this are the people who think Napster did nothing wrong. I don’t see how anyone can possibly defend Beeper’s behavior here.

By this logic Verizon should let me just use their cell network because I should be able to talk to people and they are just being mean demanding I do it on their terms or not at all.

 

[tgwaste]

I didnt realize this was made by the Pebble guy. Now I hate it even more.

 

[Mikey44]

Please note that this is a bipartisan move: https://techcrunch.com/2023/12/18/u...gate-apple-for-blocking-beepers-imessage-app/

Ah, fantatisic. All good things happen when it’s bipartisan! :vomit:

This actually comes more as a red flag to me than anything else.

I don’t think anybody here is against having iMessage on Android. I actually think Apple should do it. But I don’t think we should contort antitrust law to force Apple to do something they obviously don’t want to do.

Yes, 100%. Forcing a company to heal is the first step in bringing a population to heal.

In a 2013 internal email, Craig Federighi opposed putting iMessage on Android because it "would simply serve to remove [an] obstacle to iPhone families giving their kids Android phones."

Security and privacy are not Apple's reasons for not putting iMessage on Android. It's competition, exploiting teenage peer pressure, et cetera.

Cool. They are using human psychology to market their products, just like every other company.

Is this supposed to be a bad thing? Or just a cool nugget of information you were sharing?

 

[jimothyGator]

But at this point, iMessage being locked to Apple devices particularly iPhones (given their popularity)

This is what bothers me the most (not about you, but about the DoJ and FTC's attitude): It's okay to be proprietary, unless you're popular.

They purport to be looking out for customers, but when customers have made a choice—as over 100 million US iPhone customers have—oh well then they need to step in and show how they know better than customers do. Time to protect you from yourself and the companies you've voluntarily patronized!

I can't emphasize this enough: this is only an issue because millions of customers have decided they like iMessages and iPhone enough they've decided to become and remain customers. And then some other companies say, hmm, I'd sure like a piece of that, and it sure would be nice if I didn't have to play by the rules or pay for it. Let me call some buddies in D.C. and ask them for a favor.

 

[Bearxor]

There's nothing anticompetitive about keeping their work on their devices only. Other texting apps exist on iOS. Apple allows that. They aren't allowing others to use THEIR work.

Do other text messaging apps exist on iOS? I thought Apple didn’t allow other SMS apps.

 

[toobravetosave]

Weird when people compare phones which are universal computers that most people have significant portions of their financial lives attached to…and gaming consoles

There really is no speaking with Apple diehards

 

[tgwaste]

This is what bothers me the most (not about you, but about the DoJ and FTC's attitude): It's okay to be proprietary, unless you're popular.

They purport to be looking out for customers, but when customers have made a choice—as over 100 million US iPhone customers have—oh well then they need to step in and show how they know better than customers do. Time to protect you from yourself and the companies you've voluntarily patronized!

I can't emphasize this enough: this is only an issue because millions of customers have decided they like iMessages and iPhone enough they've decided to become and remain customers. And then some other companies say, hmm, I'd sure like a piece of that, and it sure would be nice if I didn't have to play by the rules or pay for it. Let me call some buddies in D.C. and ask them for a favor.

And democrats who despise America (like they all do) love nothing more than tearing down and beating up the biggest American companies.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Do other text messaging apps exist on iOS? I thought Apple didn’t allow other SMS apps.

Whatsapp, Facebook Messenger. I'm sure there are plenty more.

 

[DVD9]

Almost seems like a government backed Trojan horse to have a „real“ example to back up their investigation in the future and a way to introduce a backdoor down the lines

ZERO CLICK

Drop "Zero Click iPhone" into a search engine.

Somehow Mr. Security and Privacy Tim Apple can't defeat Zero Click.

Somehow.