All iPads Desktop Mode > Stage Manager

[bcortens]

I should follow up and say, I don’t think there are no advantages to free-form windowing, there obviously are some advantages. But their is a trade off in engineering resources here, they obviously didn’t have time to think about making Slide-Over more powerful, or think about enabling Split View on external displays, because they focused on Stage manager instead.

iPadOS shouldn’t be building multiple multitasking interaction methods since that is a sign of a failure to grasp what makes the current system great, a failure to improve the current system with better controls and more fluidity, and a bit of confusion when people start wondering if they should even bother with slide over and Split View or are these destined to be neglected in the future as apple focusses on the new hotness that is Stage Manager.

Slide-over + Split View strikes a better balance between usability and complexity than does stage manager which requires more interactions to achieve what is achieved in a single drag and drop with Split View.

I get the feeling that people who would mostly use their iPads docked to the keyboards and want a desktop mode and an e-reader when they undock it would really be better off with a cheap iPad + a Mac.

The iPad UI was already on its way to greatness and could have kept progressing if people hadn’t so loudly complained that somehow floating windows would magically make the iPad a better multitasking system or provide some way to accomplish something that can’t already be accomplished. Apple gave in because they lack imagination - their demos of stage manager would have worked just as well with the apps in Split View + Slide over and in fact would have featured less visual clutter while doing so. The Stage manager demo failed IMO to showcase any valid use case for its existence…

Instead it excites people who are primarily mac users (rather than people who are primarily iPad users) because suddenly they have something familiar which makes them think they can multitask when in fact it changes nothing about the app model - the other changes to the OS matter far more (Virtual memory and desktop class app features).

 

[bcortens]

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Already posted several - mostly bugs though I did manage to get in a suggestion for improving external displays with Split View instead of stage manager…

 

[GhostOS]

Already posted several - mostly bugs though I did manage to get in a suggestion for improving external displays with Split View instead of stage manager…

Good stuff, was also meant more as a reply to OP since they’re positing complains and suggestions. Would do better if they also submitted it here!

 

[symphony]

So you get this in iPadOS 16 and for this marginal benefit the rest of us are stuck playing window janitor. Sure you may gain some productivity from spending your time carefully adjusting each and every window to get it just so but many of us would rather the OS do that for us.



It’s really not ridiculous, I have a 27” screen right now that (with my mac) I use two apps side by side taking up half the screen each. I usually use pages not word but it often has its format pane open and the table of contents open which take up quite a lot of space. When I do use word the space isn’t wasted either because its nice to have some whitespace around the text when editing. I have not yet found a use case where having 3 apps carefully overlapping makes things better, it usually just makes things annoying - its why I have the magnet utility installed to make sure I can quickly tile my windows so they don’t overlap.

Speaking of paper documents, the analogy is wrong, the content within the windows are the pieces of paper not the windows themselves.



On my 27” Mac display I have notes beside Teams when I’m taking notes in meetings (notes is usually 1/3 and teams 2/3). I use PiP for YouTube videos because I don’t need a window for that at all. I use magnet to make sure apps can just be dragged into place and ignored.

I zoom google because it defaults to that ads view on the side and the text is all too small to read anyway (iPad Pro 11” in Split View) so to make the text standard size I have to zoom in on the list.

Split View: Tap hold drag window beside another window - search Double-tap
Free floating windows: drag to enable resizing/stage manager (bottom right) - get the first window the right size and position it just right, then open the second window, drag it into the stage manager, then get it positioned so that it will be just right behind the first one after a search (don’t guess the width of the google ad view incorrectly) then do your search, then tap back into the first app… far worse…

It does concern me because Split View isn’t coming to external screens on iPad (at least not in a way that lets me use the screen real estate).
I want to use my iPad with my 27” external display but I don’t want to have to manually manage windows to do so…

Stop trying to downplay it. It’s really basic.

And my analogy isn’t wrong. The listed content in the paper document is the physical version of a window, the listed content in a Word document is a digital version of a window. The action of overlapping the two items to bring the content closer is accurate. You make no sense.

And you are missing the point, it’s not about YouTube and PiP. These are just examples. The point is that overlapping windows allow for freedom and infinite adjustments.

 

[bcortens]

Stop trying to downplay it. It’s really basic.

And my analogy isn’t wrong. The listed content in the paper document is the physical version of a window, the listed content in a Word document is a digital version of a window. The action of overlapping the two items to bring the content closer is accurate. You make no sense.

And you are missing the point, it’s not about YouTube and PiP. These are just examples. The point is that overlapping windows allow for freedom and infinite adjustments.

Free form windows don’t come without downsides - it isn’t a clean win, it is an improvement to some use cases and a loss in others. There are always trade offs in UX, show more content and its more discoverable but looks more cluttered, hide the menu bar when scrolling in safari and more of the content is visible but it now takes two taps to show the toolbar and can lead to inadvertent scrolling to the top. Trade offs. I don’t think the free form trade offs are worth it and you do.

Word document contains pages, they scroll within the window. The paper is the pages scrolling within the window, the window chrome and controls are the hole-punch, pens, rulers and protractors sitting on your desk.

 

[symphony]

Word document contains pages, they scroll within the window. The paper is the pages scrolling within the window, the window chrome and controls are the hole-punch, pens, rulers and protractors sitting on your desk.

smh, if it is this difficult for you to imagine, imagine this: This document in my example is one page. The two Word documents is using standard US paper letter, so the same size as real paper. The Word document is opened in a third-party app with no visible borders or tools, just the content. These two documents are overlapping each other just like how they overlap in the physical world when a piece of paper is on top of another.

None of this hole punch, pens, rulers, and protractors nonsense.

🤦🏻‍♂️

And regardless, the point is that two documents are still overlapping to view the two documents closer together. You don’t even need to comprehend “windows”. Ignore it.

 

[bcortens]

smh, if it is this difficult for you to imagine, imagine this: This document in my example is one page. The two Word documents is using standard US paper letter, so the same size as real paper. The Word document is opened in a third-party app with no visible borders or tools, just the content. These two documents are overlapping each other just like how they overlap in the physical world when a piece of paper is on top of another.

None of this hole punch, pens, rulers, and protractors nonsense.

🤦🏻‍♂️

And regardless, the point is that two documents are still overlapping to view the two documents closer together. You don’t even need to comprehend “windows”. Ignore it.

Okay - so lets take your example as is, again I don’t see how this system is that much better (again tradeoffs) paper is not perfectly analogous to windows anyway, when you need to see all your papers you spread them all out (probably slightly overlapping) when you need to see all your windows you use the multitasker (iPad) or Mission Control (mac) and they shrink down and all move so they are not overlapping. Typically I don’t have the research paper I am working on overlapping with my notebook unless I am using them hand-held for some reason, if I’m at my desk I have enough space to put my notebook beside the research paper or book I am referencing.
If I am working with multiple research papers typically I have the one I am currently working with beside my notebook and then others are kind of haphazardly stacked out of the way and quickly searched through when I need to quickly reference something. I almost never just randomly overlap them or position them just to hide the whitespace at the edges of the documents… Also something that has never bothered me when using a mac or iPad is the whitespace around the document.

Again, to you this manual whitespace hiding is vital, to me, its just a waste of time, its far faster just to throw it in split view and then replace the one that needs replacing by dragging something else on top of it. I actually wish the multitasker zoomed out a bit more so I could see 9 apps/windows at a time instead of 4 for even faster access to older windows.

 

[doboy]

You have no reason to argue since you can use iPad the way you’ve always been. I’m talking about Stage Manager, a feature you don’t need to use, to allow manual control. Whatever I am asking for, it shouldn’t even concern you.

We can’t pick and choose features from macOS that is convenient for us, then tell others to just buy a Mac when they think they are inconvenient.

Slideover apps obstructs buttons on each corner it overlaps. Proper app windows allow freedom to resize and position the overlapping app to not obstruct anything. We have the freedom to cover any space or information we don’t want.

I prefer to overlap an app over another so that data and content are closer together for multitasking. When I use Notes in splitview with Safari for example, there is this big waste of space on the right side of Notes and Safari. On a 12.9” display, it’s hard to efficiently look back and forth. With floating windows, you can use Safari to cover up the wasted space with Notes. Many websites have white space on the right, and so do apps. They’re meant for overlapping. You can cover up everything like the sidebar just so you can see the content that you want. Because you can’t see both when they’re that far apart and big.

Then don't moan in a public forum. Go complain directly to Apple and see if they care what you think.

 

[jav6454]

Stage Manager is a HUGE update for the iPad! Will you ever be satisfied?

People are never satisfied. You can see it thru all the complaint threads on MR. Always something wrong with their product even if they knew what they were buying into.

 

[mg51015bb]

I’m struggling to understand the use case where Stage Manager is helpful. Initially I was super excited, but reading about it more I feel like Apple needs to implement some type of smart “snapping” that lets you throw windows to the left/right/top/bottom so they don’t overlap. Otherwise I can just CMD-TAB to switch between apps/windows. If stuff is overlapping it’s hard to view content unless you meticulously arrange the windows, which doesn’t sound useful. I’d rather stick to the current split-screen functionality.

I also feel this way about MacOS, I don’t like to have my windows overlapping and generally use Magnets to snap my windows into certain sections of the screen.

 

[Rafterman]

I’m struggling to understand the use case where Stage Manager is helpful. Initially I was super excited, but reading about it more I feel like Apple needs to implement some type of smart “snapping” that lets you throw windows to the left/right/top/bottom so they don’t overlap. Otherwise I can just CMD-TAB to switch between apps/windows. If stuff is overlapping it’s hard to view content unless you meticulously arrange the windows, which doesn’t sound useful. I’d rather stick to the current split-screen functionality.

I also feel this way about MacOS, I don’t like to have my windows overlapping and generally use Magnets to snap my windows into certain sections of the screen.

Stage Manager makes it simpler to switch between apps often, since they are all on the screen at the same time, with "minimized" apps represented as icons. You don't need to swipe up or gesture to move between apps, just tap the screen to move to the new app.

 

[bcortens]

Stage Manager makes it simpler to switch between apps often, since they are all on the screen at the same time, with "minimized" apps represented as icons. You don't need to swipe up or gesture to move between apps, just tap the screen to move to the new app.

I would argue the same could have been accomplished if they had given us a better way to get into the multitasking windows viewer (rather than the swipe up and hold and release that we currently have).
You pay for that side panel of apps in screen space, so it’s not a clean win, additionally the lack of snapping is really disappointing.

 

[ratspg]

Anybody with the M1 iPad Pro and iPadOS 16 beta... can you use an external screen as the main display and have the iPad off?

 

[alien3dx]

Anybody with the M1 iPad Pro and iPadOS 16 beta... can you use an external screen as the main display and have the iPad off?

Dont have m1 ipad pro , but my mini 6 do still on when connected to external monitor . (Not full screen) .

 

[alien3dx]

Anyone official try this ? https://shiftscreen.app/ ? Review seem good some bad .

 

[sparksd]

Anyone official try this ? https://shiftscreen.app/ ? Review seem good some bad .

Search the forums here for shiftscreen - lots of posts on it.

 

[Digitalguy]

Anyone official try this ? https://shiftscreen.app/ ? Review seem good some bad .

I have both versions and it's not worth it to me. You can't use safari or the apps you prefer, just their crappy browser and apps

 

[PrettyWings]

Anyone official try this ? https://shiftscreen.app/ ? Review seem good some bad .

It drains battery like crazy

 

[Macintosh101]

Anybody with the M1 iPad Pro and iPadOS 16 beta... can you use an external screen as the main display and have the iPad off?

I’m running the beta on an M1 iPP with iPadOS 16, and no you can’t use an external display and have the iPad off.

 

[PrettyWings]

Buy a Mac.
Seriously, the idea that the iPad should become a Mac is really frustrating, the best thing about the iPad is that it isn't a Mac, prior to the current era of lack of imagination at apple they were trying new things with the iPad to try and give us something better than what already exists for a transformable UI. You want to be a window janitor? Fine, but the rest of us shouldn't suffer for this.

Maybe he has a Mac but also wants more out of the iPad.

Apple realized that a lot of people want to do more with their iPads. What they have done here suggests there could be more people out there who want change than people who think things are perfect as they are. It looks like the answer is to stay away from the Pro if you want small minor changes.

 

[darngooddesign]

Plus, I want a consistent experience between iPadOS and macOS when it comes to the basics.

You can have a consistent experience if you only use Stage Manager on your Mac. 🤣

 

[bcortens]

Maybe he has a Mac but also wants more out of the iPad.

Apple realized that a lot of people want to do more with their iPads. What they have done here suggests there could be more people out there who want change than people who think things are perfect as they are. It looks like the answer is to stay away from the Pro if you want small minor changes.

The problem is that I like the iPad Pro and I like that iPad OS is trying to rethink the way we manage windows to make it easier. Giving up on the ease of use that was the iPad windowing system is not the answer. I wanted changes, but not free form floating windows, that is just giving up and giving people what they say they want. I want Slide-over to work on the home screen, I want slide-over to be able to have different widths (I sometimes want quick access to an app in regular width class), I want better discoverability. I want windowing options in the top menu and I want them to have labels to make it clearer what is going to happen. I want a better way to add applications to slide-over (tap and hold -> all open windows, is not a great solution) … I wanted things to change, but this is a regression rather than a progression.

 

[darngooddesign]

It drains battery like crazy

It probably does, but if you're connected to an external display you are or can get power as well.

 

[PrettyWings]

You have no reason to argue since you can use iPad the way you’ve always been. I’m talking about Stage Manager, a feature you don’t need to use, to allow manual control. Whatever I am asking for, it shouldn’t even concern you.

It looks like the answer for people who don’t want these features is to buy a different iPad.

 

[bcortens]

It looks like the answer for people who don’t want these features is to buy a different iPad.

No it isn’t the answer should have been that Apple improved the existing multitasking system, they instead left the existing system to languish in neglect because people convinced them that only multiple floating windows was true multitasking …

Most people who wanted resizable windows are the same ones that want the configurability and the ability to tinker that comes with a Mac and are still not going to buy an iPad Pro.

Edit: The iPad shouldn’t become a mac, and the convergence in UI is disappointing… apple used to try and make decisions that let each platform be true to itself now they seem to be just mashing things together because it is what their customers say they want. I don’t think they have anyone really in charge of design direction of their user experience that has a clear vision for what makes the Mac or the iPad unique and powerful.

Edit 2: The iPad should gain more power by extending its capabilities (driver kit, improvements to files, virtual memory) while maintaining its elegant touch first UX.