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There is nothing wrong to be worried about internet money transfers. I am worried too, but I have now chosen to use PayPal, which is a kind of a bank between me and eBay/Amazon sellers. They can try to resolve conflicts more efficiently than I could do alone - if there are any conflicts to come.

I can't holeheartedly recommend either eBay or Amazon, but I do use them both myself all the time. Every little electronic thing I have ordered from these services has been delivered to me as of now. Not everything has been exactly what was promised, though. Couple of bad experiences, out of about one hundred deals 'til today.
 
Thanks.I'm worried about buy anything electronic like ram or a cpu a card from eBay. Should I be?
I think you need to upgrade every component of your system or, as I previously suggested, use Activity Monitor to locate the source of your performance issue. Everyone is giving you the shot gun approach...upgrade this or upgrade that. You might accidently stumble across the issue or you can take a methodical approach and use Activity Monitor to identify the potential source of your performance issue.
 
^This is some good advice. Thank You for that.
(activity monitor is the source to begin with)
 
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Check out this link, it's not clear if my Mac will take any more ram.
https://everymac.com/systems/apple/...-quad-core-2.66-early-2009-nehalem-specs.html[/QUOTE]

That link you posted clearly states that:

As originally shipped, Apple officially supported a maximum of 8 GB of RAM but third-parties discovered that the system could actually support 16 GB of RAM using four 4 GB memory modules. On December 4, 2009, Apple "officially" began supporting 16 GB of RAM as well. Shortly thereafter, third-parties determined that the system could, in fact, support 32 GB of RAM using four 8 GB modules. Finally, third-parties have been able to support 48 GB of RAM with three 16 GB modules.
Your 2009 Mac Pro will support up to 48 GB of RAM. I don't think you need that much, but it is supported. 32 GB is the sweet spot for price vs performance benefit.

If you don't want to order from Ebay, you can order from OWC: https://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other World Computing/85MP3W8M32K/

OWC is a relatively trustworthy source for upgrades. They are expensive, but at least they are Mac-focused.

Even if you aren't getting "out of memory" errors, that doesn't mean your system wouldn't benefit from more RAM. OSX Sierra and High Sierra can both use unused RAM as a very fast cache for frequently used data. This will speed up all kinds of things on your machine. Furthermore, even if you don't "run out of memory" per se, that doesn't mean your system isn't having to write the contents of its RAM to your (slow) spinning hard disk from time to time. That's a very slow process. The more RAM you have, the less your system will need to do this.
 
I don't think you need that much, but it is supported.
"Works", but not "supported".

"Supported" means that Apple will accept a ticket about an issue, and address it.

We're at the point where few (if any) cMPs are still under AppleCare - so the distinction is basically moot.

It's well known that the MP6,1 works with 32 GiB DIMMs for a max of 128 GiB - but only 64 GiB is "supported".
 
^^ Sorry, I can't fully agree with that. I've got 48 GB of RAM. That should be the sweet spot for performance, if you have upgraded your processor to a newer one.

I want to explain this further: My processor, X5680, admits 3 channel memory negotiations. With a modern processor upgrade, like I did, one can have 48GB of fastest possible like 1333MHz memory.
 
I'm a graphic designer living within Photoshop. Do I need to say much more?
Some of your questions I don't understand.
1,2,3,5,6,7,9
also I only have 12GB RAM don't know if my Mac will accept more.
https://everymac.com/systems/apple/...-quad-core-2.66-early-2009-nehalem-specs.html

Sine you don’t understand the question. So, the answer is pretty much NO for all of them.

I said few times already, your Mac can accept at least 4x8GB or RAM, I did it with the exact CPU, logic board, firmware before.

For Photoshop, it’s all about CPU single thread performance, and fast I/O. So, my suggestion remain the same. You need (in priority)

1) SSD (the cheapest one can do the job already). I can 100% sure your Mac Pro now perform worse than the newer MacBook that with only 8GB (or even 4GB) memory, it’s mainly because of the SSD. So, memory size clearly is NOT your primary bottleneck at this moment.

2) Xeon X5677 (this CPU will work with your current 5,1 firmware. It’s the cheapest and fastest option for Photoshop, can be as cheap as $25. For this kind of price, I won’t really care if that’s from eBay. I bought most of my parts from the even worse China online shopping website TaoBao, no problem at all. It’s pretty hard to get a faulty Xeon indeed. Of course ou can go all the way to X5690, but for Photoshop, it’s just a waste 99% or the time.

3) 3x8GB RAM (you can go 4x8 if you want to, but my personal observation tell me that the system almost never use more than 24GB in general. The remaining memory will still serve as cache, won’t be wasted, but just won’t speed up much if you have a SSD installed).

4) for GPU, pretty much any card can do. If you don’t mind can’t see that Apple logo during boot. Once you upgraded your OS to High Sierra, plug in a reference RX560 then you are good to go.
 
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Sine you don’t understand the question. So, the answer is pretty much NO for all of them.

I said few times already, your Mac can accept at least 4x8GB or RAM, I did it with the exact CPU, logic board, firmware before.

For Photoshop, it’s all about CPU single thread performance, and fast I/O. So, my suggestion remain the same. You need (in priority)

1) SSD (the cheapest one can do the job already). I can 100% sure your Mac Pro now perform worse than the newer MacBook that with only 8GB (or even 4GB) memory, it’s mainly because of the SSD. So, memory size clearly is NOT your primary bottleneck at this moment.

2) Xeon X5677 (this CPU will work with your current 5,1 firmware. It’s the cheapest and fastest option for Photoshop, can be as cheap as $25. For this kind of price, I won’t really care if that’s from eBay. I bought most of my parts from the even worse China online shopping website TaoBao, no problem at all. It’s pretty hard to get a faulty Xeon indeed. Of course ou can go all the way to X5690, but for Photoshop, it’s just a waste 99% or the time.

3) 3x8GB RAM (you can go 4x8 if you want to, but my personal observation tell me that the system almost never use more than 24GB in general. The remaining memory will still serve as cache, won’t be wasted, but just won’t speed up much if you have a SSD installed).

4) for GPU, pretty much any card can do. If you don’t mind can’t see that Apple logo during boot. Once you upgraded your OS to High Sierra, plug in a reference RX560 then you are good to go.
The OP has yet to clarify what performance issues he is having. I whole heartily support his obtaining an SSD but, unless his performance issue is disk based, it's not going to solve the performance issue. It'll make the system feel faster but, unless that's the OPs problem with the system, it won't make completion of his work faster. My recommendation is to get an SSD regardless but caution him it may not solve the performance issue he is having.
 
"Works", but not "supported".

"Supported" means that Apple will accept a ticket about an issue, and address it.

We're at the point where few (if any) cMPs are still under AppleCare - so the distinction is basically moot.

It's well known that the MP6,1 works with 32 GiB DIMMs for a max of 128 GiB - but only 64 GiB is "supported".
You are saying my almost 8 years old top of the line Xeon X5680 is not top notch anymore?

Allright, I agree there might have been some progression with CPU's after this one. But what do I know. I started my so called computing career with a Zilog Z80. Cant remember the megahertz's anymore, but there were a few megahertz in it if I recall right. I have to aknowledge processors have improved with time a little bit.

To be honest I'm baffled about the performance of these recent multicore CPUs, both intel and AMD ones. The next thing they are gonna do is think, I think. Or do they allready?

And to be honest a second time, I am jealously looking at the newest HP Z-series (Z4, Z6 and Z8). Can one buy those somewhere allready? All I can see is a Notify Me -link.

The HP's are so versatile and beautiful inside. Not so much from outside, but who cares. I would buy one configured to something like about 4000-5000 € if only they ran MacOS. I've got software investments on my choice of OS, and I feel more productive with my current choice of OS. I know what to do with this, I can accomplish everything there is to my work and freetime.

I am testing a Win10 Pro machine with this "not so modern" X5680. It is a 150€ HP Z400, upgraded to the approximately same level as my Mac Pro 4.1. I had this funny idea to compare exactly the same level of hardware but with different OS. I do agree there are a lot of benefits with windows. There is more software. But then again, there are still a lot of benefits with current MacOS. I don't think they (Apple) are going to the right direction now, and it could be only a matter of time when windows gets the pole position with me too. I really don't know. And Apple is not helping me with their secrecy about future Mac Pros.

And I do hate the fact that the iMac Pro is such a sealed and non upgradable beast.

I would happily use linux if there were viable software enough for my use (Architectural CAD, and the beloved BIM). Unfortunately the CAD-freebies are not up to it, QCAD, LibreCAD, Archimedes, etc. Most are AutoCAD copies, and AutoCAD is not a modern software anymore (just like X5680 is not a modern processor, I have learnt).

Commercial linux software is allmost nonexistent in my field of profession.

So yes, I do have a dilemma on what (apple or HP) next equipment to buy.
 
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The OP has yet to clarify what performance issues he is having. I whole heartily support his obtaining an SSD but, unless his performance issue is disk based, it's not going to solve the performance issue. It'll make the system feel faster but, unless that's the OPs problem with the system, it won't make completion of his work faster. My recommendation is to get an SSD regardless but caution him it may not solve the performance issue he is having.

I 100% agree, however, since OP can’t teel us what exactly his problem is. So, I only base on the general usage to give him suggestion. SSD is a must, it will greatly speed up the photos import, it will be much faster to use as SWAP (compare to HDD). I won’t suggest him to invest any big money on it or go any complicated solution (e.g. NVMe SSD). But just a low cost small size SATA SSD should give home a significant boost. The original Mac Pro is generally I/O limiting.

The other suggestion is pretty much just to “answer” his question. If his question pointed to the wrong direction at the very beginning, then the suggestion of course also completely useless. However, since he keep asking the same questions. So, I think it may be it’s time to give him “the best answer I can do” (base on the info I understand at this moment).
 
I 100% agree, however, since OP can’t teel us what exactly his problem is. So, I only base on the general usage to give him suggestion. SSD is a must, it will greatly speed up the photos import, it will be much faster to use as SWAP (compare to HDD). I won’t suggest him to invest any big money on it or go any complicated solution (e.g. NVMe SSD). But just a low cost small size SATA SSD should give home a significant boost. The original Mac Pro is generally I/O limiting.

The other suggestion is pretty much just to “answer” his question. If his question pointed to the wrong direction at the very beginning, then the suggestion of course also completely useless. However, since he keep asking the same questions. So, I think it may be it’s time to give him “the best answer I can do” (base on the info I understand at this moment).
Sorry I'm not giving clear questions. I did the firmware conversion and got High Sierra to install on another internal HD. Now I have to see what app's will install. Hard to find DMG's of stuff I downloaded a few years back. My real issue was waiting till next year for the new Mac Pro's and then spending maybe 3k. My pockets aren't that deep. So I set a budget for this machine of around 1k in up grades. I won't do myself installing a new cpu, I guess I would send it to OWC but then I would be shut dow for who knows how long and I forgot what they would charge for that? I don't know if any of you are graphic designers, if not the old problem of photoshop while saving and other things with a file, PS makes it 4 times larger then after saving is finished it it's normal size. With some poster I do I may have many layers in the file that makes it larger and it's not uncommon to be working on a 100MB file. I agree on the internal SSD. I talked with Samsung yesterday and they told me with my Mac the way it is right now I would loose 30% of the SSD's speed. But you see I've been on this Mac for so long any change toward speed is going to feel great. Thanks all for hanging with a geezer of 70.
 
Get the SSD. Pay someone to upgrade your gear with an SSD, if you are not comfortable to do it by yourself. I promise it will be a lot faster with an SSD than it was before.
 
Get the SSD. Pay someone to upgrade your gear with an SSD, if you are not comfortable to do it by yourself. I promise it will be a lot faster with an SSD than it was before.
I'm not completely helpless I can install ram and HD's but putting in a cpu I don't want to try that.
[doublepost=1510513597][/doublepost]What brand of SSD?
 
Allright. I respect that.

For me the only thing that kept me to not begin with processor upgrades, was thermal paste. And now, after all these years and after all my CPU upgrades I have done, that is the easiest part of all. It's just a little bit messy, that's all.
 
Sorry I'm not giving clear questions. I did the firmware conversion and got High Sierra to install on another internal HD. Now I have to see what app's will install. Hard to find DMG's of stuff I downloaded a few years back. My real issue was waiting till next year for the new Mac Pro's and then spending maybe 3k. My pockets aren't that deep. So I set a budget for this machine of around 1k in up grades. I won't do myself installing a new cpu, I guess I would send it to OWC but then I would be shut dow for who knows how long and I forgot what they would charge for that? I don't know if any of you are graphic designers, if not the old problem of photoshop while saving and other things with a file, PS makes it 4 times larger then after saving is finished it it's normal size. With some poster I do I may have many layers in the file that makes it larger and it's not uncommon to be working on a 100MB file. I agree on the internal SSD. I talked with Samsung yesterday and they told me with my Mac the way it is right now I would loose 30% of the SSD's speed. But you see I've been on this Mac for so long any change toward speed is going to feel great. Thanks all for hanging with a geezer of 70.

Don't worry about the speed, what you focus on is the high IOPS, almost none of the SSD I know has 250MB/s on the 4k random read speed (most of them are just 30MB/s even the PCIe SSD), your Mac won't pull you down too much on real world usage.

Think in this way. e.g. your "large" 100MB file.

For a HDD, it can easily go >100MB/s on the sequential read speed. Even my so call "slow" WD Red HDD can achieve 160MB/s. That means, if the HDD can deliver that on your 100MB file. The loading will be finish just within 1 second.

For a SSD, let's say 500MB/s for a typical SATA SSD, in can finish the loading in 0.2s.

For human being, no big difference, still finish the loading within 1 second.

However, why SSD is so much faster? Because that 100MB file consist of many different layer, the data may actually spread all over the place. The HDD may need to search >1000 different location to pull all the required data.

Now the game changed. It's not depends on the sequential read anymore, but random read speed. It's all about how fast the hard drive can locate the data. This is why SSD is so "fast".

For that same 100MB data. On a HDD, the usually 4k random read speed is just ~1MB/s. Therefore, in worst case (all data really split into multiple 4k random blocks). It will require 100s to finish the loading.

But on a SSD, it's about 30MB/s. Therefore, the loading will be finished within 4 seconds.

Now, on human being feeling. The SSD is much faster.

Will the SATA II connection limit anything? NO in this case.

I bought the same 09 Mac Pro with W3520 back in 2009 directly from Apple. I went through the upgrade route. I know what's the really useful stuff.

A SSD on a SATA II or SATA III port, doesn't really matter on most operation (apart from copying very large files, including (un)zipping, which is also a kind of copying). And you don't need any super fast SSD.

To play safe, I will recommend a Samsung 850 Evo to you. However, really, any SATA SSD can do the job (except the OWC SSD), the cheaper the better. No point to spend too much on this item. My "$500 1TB Samsung 840 Evo installed on a Tempo SSD SATA III card" work more or less the same as my "$30 120GB DGM SSD just plug into one of the native SATA II port). (Anyway, you can click the items in my signature to jump to the corresponding link).

However, if your issue is something like "photoshop slow respond when using large brush", then both SSD and memory won't help. You may really need a better CPU or GPU depends on what you were doing.

I also suggest that don't worry about the CPU upgrade at this moment, get the SSD, and may be more RAM first (recommend start with 3x8GB, only go higher if you clearly know that you are bottleneck by memory size). Try it, and if you still feeling "too slow", then consider the CPU upgrade.
 
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What brand of SSD?
Probably any brand of SSD will be of help. I have used Samsung, Kingston, Corsair, Crucial as of today. Samsung is the most used brand by myself. And there is this one faulting Samsung SSD allready at the hand. I would not give a bad name to Samsung because of that. I did not turn on TRIM with this SSD. I think you should turn TRIM on, whatever the brand of SSD you are going to buy and install.

sudo trimforce enable at terminal will do that for you.
 
Probably any brand of SSD will be of help. I have used Samsung, Kingston, Corsair, Crucial as of today. Samsung is the most used brand by myself. And there is this one faulting Samsung SSD allready at the hand. I would not give a bad name to Samsung because of that. I did not turn on TRIM with this SSD. I think you should turn TRIM on, whatever the brand of SSD you are going to buy and install.

sudo trimforce enable at terminal will do that for you.
Again another term I don't know TRIM
 
TRIM tells the SSD to clean up the unused cells. It helps to extend the lifetime of a SSD. It does speed up the writing speeds to SSD. An SSD cell needs to be cleared before it can be written to again. TRIM does that for you. TRIM does the cleanup beforehand, not at the time when you want to write to the SSD cell, that's why it is faster to write to a SSD with TRIM:ed cells in it.
 
Sorry I'm not giving clear questions. I did the firmware conversion and got High Sierra to install on another internal HD. Now I have to see what app's will install. Hard to find DMG's of stuff I downloaded a few years back. My real issue was waiting till next year for the new Mac Pro's and then spending maybe 3k. My pockets aren't that deep. So I set a budget for this machine of around 1k in up grades. I won't do myself installing a new cpu, I guess I would send it to OWC but then I would be shut dow for who knows how long and I forgot what they would charge for that? I don't know if any of you are graphic designers, if not the old problem of photoshop while saving and other things with a file, PS makes it 4 times larger then after saving is finished it it's normal size. With some poster I do I may have many layers in the file that makes it larger and it's not uncommon to be working on a 100MB file. I agree on the internal SSD. I talked with Samsung yesterday and they told me with my Mac the way it is right now I would loose 30% of the SSD's speed. But you see I've been on this Mac for so long any change toward speed is going to feel great. Thanks all for hanging with a geezer of 70.
Back in post #33 I provided a list of parts, totaling ~ $140, which would essentially address three areas which could be the source of your performance issue: CPU, memory, and disk. If you were to buy those parts and install them you would essentially be upgrading your system to about the best it could be for your needs. This is well below your $1K budget leaving you room to buy a larger SSD, upgrade the graphics card, or consider the six core X5690 CPU (though I do not feel the extra cores will benefit you much given your workload).

Upgrading the CPU on your system is not difficult. Here is a video which shows what needs to be done and how easy it is:


Probably the most difficult part of replacing the CPU is finding a long enough hex wrench to remove the heat sink screws.
 
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Some place I read that there is a plastic or whatever cover on the square cpu chip that was very hard to remove. I guess maybe I could call OWC tomorrow and see if they have the glue and hex wrench for sale.
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No, anytime. You can actually do that now even there is no SSD in your system yet.
How?
 
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