Do not use ATV2 for Netflix

[tigres]

If you're only subscribed to Internet broadband via U-Verse, and you aren't paying for the television part of the package, you shouldn't have any special issues with it.

What I was talking about was the fact that AT&T U-Verse streams their television content as though it was additional Internet traffic, over a specific range of IP addresses. Unlike your typical "unicast" type of TCP/IP traffic though, their IPTV data is "multicast" - meaning it doesn't have a specific "destination" IP address that's supposed to receive it. Multicast traffic flows to ALL devices capable of listening on your network. That way, any and all set-top boxes you have attached to your network will receive the traffic, and decrypt the encrypted content according to the paid TV subscription you've got, allowing you to watch your channels. (When you press the arrow buttons on your U-Verse remote or on the front of one of the boxes to change the station, you're really telling it to decode the next higher or lower IP address in the range it knows contains their TV streams.)

Now, the thing is, U-Verse can be wired up two different ways. They support the coaxial cable that cable TV providers typically use, to connect the set-top boxes to the main "residential gateway" modem, AND they support CAT5e ethernet for those connections. With the installation they did at my house, they used ethernet for everything. (I don't know for sure, but I suspect that when the coaxial wiring is used, it may keep all of that multicast IPTV traffic limited to the coaxial wires? That would be nice, if they didn't re-broadcast all that traffic over your Internet-connected devices using the 4-port switch on the back of the gateway.... but it would have the downside that you couldn't add more set-top boxes anywhere on your home network, just by plugging them into an available ethernet port someplace.)

Anyway -- when everything's going over ethernet, you have to find some way to filter out that multicast IPTV traffic so it only flows to actual set-top boxes plugged into your LAN, and not to all your computers or networked printers. Otherwise, you'll see really poor performance copying large files over your network and things like streaming Internet video will be unreliable.

Thanks for the post, (detailed) appreciate it.

Called Netflix this weekend, I am getting between .30mb and .98mb stream speeds. She told me it requires a min of 3.0 mb.

I'm fricken lost on this one. I have 24mb package down w/3 up. Tests confirm on my devices I get about 18-21 down and consistent 2.75 up. iStumbler shows my appletv as having a very week signal, and very slow data transfer speeds on my 5GZ band; yet it sits about 15 feet in line of site from my apple router.

I simply cannot make sense of it. Even changing my DNS servers on apple tv to OPEN DNS settings matters not. Honestly, I am tired of trying to rework my entire home setup (which btw functions flawlessly) just to get netflix to stream on this device.

Lastly, PS3 and a Panasonic plasma stream perfectly- without a hitch. They of course are in the media room, not my living room.

 

[newagemac]

Thanks for the post, (detailed) appreciate it.

Called Netflix this weekend, I am getting between .30mb and .98mb stream speeds. She told me it requires a min of 3.0 mb.

I'm fricken lost on this one. I have 24mb package down w/3 up. Tests confirm on my devices I get about 18-21 down and consistent 2.75 up. iStumbler shows my appletv as having a very week signal, and very slow data transfer speeds on my 5GZ band; yet it sits about 15 feet in line of site from my apple router.

I simply cannot make sense of it. Even changing my DNS servers on apple tv to OPEN DNS settings matters not. Honestly, I am tired of trying to rework my entire home setup (which btw functions flawlessly) just to get netflix to stream on this device.

Lastly, PS3 and a Panasonic plasma stream perfectly- without a hitch. They of course are in the media room, not my living room.

You almost surely have a wifi problem then. For testing purposes since it is only 15 feet from your router try an ethernet connection and see if you get the right bitrates. There could be several things going on. Your ATV might be connecting to a different wireless access point, you might have it set close to something that is causing wireless interference, etc. Testing with ethernet can narrow down your issue to the wifi signal.

 

[trip1ex]

Folks with no issues. Call up Netflix, get your bit rates and post them.

Mine works fine. Bit rate is 1.4 mbps.

 

[slothrob]

I have intermittent stalling problems with Netflix streaming. I have 15 mbps Verizon Fios.

It works fine, usually, during the day, but is usually unwatchable in the evening. I've started testing my download rates and get ~12 mbps during the day and ~4 mbps at night, so I suspect that is the problem. It's probably occasionally spiking below 3 mbps and choking.

I haven't called Netflix for my speeds, yet, but it looks like I need to call Verizon, since they seem to be the problem. Unless someone is using something in the evening that's interfering with my wireless. I'll need to hard wire it tonight, to check, but it certainly looks like Verizon is causing the stalling.

However, it seems like there would be no problem at all if the aTV2 just buffered more of the video.

 

[biggerboy]

Thanks for the post, (detailed) appreciate it.

I simply cannot make sense of it. Even changing my DNS servers on apple tv to OPEN DNS settings matters not. Honestly, I am tired of trying to rework my entire home setup (which btw functions flawlessly) just to get netflix to stream on this device.

Lastly, PS3 and a Panasonic plasma stream perfectly- without a hitch. They of course are in the media room, not my living room.

BTW, Netflix is probably using a Content Distribution Network (CDN) and likely uses your DNS server as a way of locating where you are. If you are using something like OpenDNS or Google DNS, the CDN can get confused and send your stream from a non-optimal (i.e. far away) location. Changing to OpenDNS will probably exacerbate the situation, not solve it.

 

[zap2]

I loved my brother AppleTV he brought home for winter break...no issue with Netflix outside of some Wi-Fi stuff, but they seemed to be the network more then Netflix.

I use a PS3 for my Netflix on my TV and the interface is good, but I'd say the AppleTV is equally impressive if memory serves.

 

[dopechess]

for those having problems with bandwidth. make sure to increase your multicast rate on your router. I have mine set at the max of 24mb/sec on my airport extreme. Seems to have no really issue with the stream.

 

[boecherer]

for those having problems with bandwidth. make sure to increase your multicast rate on your router. I have mine set at the max of 24mb/sec on my airport extreme. Seems to have no really issue with the stream.

Where do you get 24mbps? The max mine shows is 11mbps.

 

[btbrossard]

I recently got an Apple TV and it's been great so far with Netflix. In comparison, our xbox would always pause to switch quality levels. While not a big issue, it was kind of a frustration after a while.

The only complaints I would have about Netflix via an ATV is the design of the UI. While I understand Apple wants everything simple as can be, there is a point where you just go too far.

For example, our other Netflix devices all report some sort of signal/quality level. The xbox had between 1-4 bars + an HD logo. The Apple TV has nothing. While the quality looks very good, I have no idea if the connection is good or bad at any point in time.

Also, how about some indication as to whether a movie or TV show has been watched or not. The xbox has a progress bar that shows what percentage of each epsisode or movie has been watched. The Apple TV has nothing. I start watching a season of TV shows and end up wondering what episode I watched last.

Edit to add: In any case, the Apple TV is a real no brainer as far as a purchase for my family. We were paying xbox $7 a month to be gold live members JUST for the privilege of being able to watch Netflix. Kind of a joke if you ask me. What service was xbox providing? I still had to pay Netflix...

 

[Sedulous]

Netflix works well on my ATV2, Wii, and iPad. Maybe someone should edit the thread title so it doesn't seem like hyperbole.

 

[Wicked1]

Exactly what the title says. Wanted to share this with anyone considering buying ATV2 specifically for Netflix streaming. Save you some heartache....I have 2 ATV2 and PS3 and a Wii. ATV2 is the worst and I constantly get buffering and timeout during movie play. This is with a 20Mbps download speed wired connection. If I switch movie to other source I do not have the problem at all!

Very disappointed and wanted to share this. Personally I feel it is intentional, but who knows. What I do know is that I don't experience it with the other devices. To me it is a bad deal since the ATV2 device has very limited functionality and is designed for streaming, and it performes the worst?

So my advice is to get it for other reasons, but DO NOT get it for Netflix....there are other better options.

Recent updates did not fix bugs on this, and i think it is unnacceptable. This is a known problem and Apple could care less about all the complaints and concerns that have been voiced. Pretty annoyed about it.

You must be using Comcast service at home, it is the worst, I keep calling but all I get is BS about them converting to Pure Digital, so that is why all that crap happens to me, I went from having such good service to the worst in my neighborhood, I would be better with Dial Up internet at times, and do not even get me started with renting movies on demand.

 

[sbrage2000]

I have this issue with my ATV2 as well. Everything else streams fine (rented movies and TV shows, etc) but Netflix is plagued by buffering issues. Works perfectly fine on my PS3 or Wii. Definitely not a wifi issue b/c it is hooked up via an ethernet cable to my Airport router. Didn't really bother troubleshooting it since I'm happy to watch Netflix on my PS3.

 

[mottdog]

I'm not the only one? I've had it work great and some nights just horrible on my ATV2. I have about 12 mbps down from VFios. I hoped the last Apple update would help, but no luck as I was watching Dexter it was pausing and required me to press play again. Thinking about ponying money up for another brand streaming box.

 

[blueroom]

Netflix on my ATV2 works flawlessly here on Rogers in Toronto.

 

[wiredup72]

Good to see at least one other person taking the time to check their actual connection speed with Netflix customer service.

I have still been working with Apple, and occasionally Verizon and Netflix, and still the same old, same old: 18-19mbs with my laptop and only .8 - 1.5 with the ATV2.

I still challenge all the people who so angrily chastise those of us who have problems to start reporting their actual connection speeds from Netflix -- but I doubt you would tell the truth anyways.

I just got off the phone with the Netflix and they are beginning to openly admit that there is a problem with the ATV2.

Thank you trip1ex for reporting your results.

OK took the test. I'm getting 0.8 mbps to Netflix.

I had the Wii running at the same time and it was getting 3.5-4 mbps.

Not sure how much the ATV was affected by the Wii. The Wii will drop my network to wireless G and is next to the router while the ATV is upstairs in a bedroom and with wireless G could possibly have an effect.

My picture with the ATV upstairs is probably not HD if I had to call it. But hard to tell HD from DVD in older movies much of the time especially in close ups.

I watch netflix on my 360 and Tivo sometimes and I never say oh the picture is much better. And never complained about the ATV picture.

The Netflix guy said I am well below their 1.5 mbps threshold though.

I said well shouldn't I be having problems and he said no. Obviosly the 1.5 mbps rate is to make sure you have enough headroom, but still can't believe it is working at 0.8 with the quality as good as it seems to me.

So maybe you're on to something. Maybe it's just a narrow range of bandwidth that separates the doesn't work crowd from the works crowd.

The Netflix guy did say he has measured 5+mbps streams coming from atvs. And downplayed my notions that perhaps there is a problem with the ATV and Netflix.

I also suggested that perhaps it is measuring rates wrong since I'm getting 0.8 mbps and have no stutters and quality seems pretty good. He nixed that notion.

He didn't give any good recommendations though. Cycle your router is all he said. And didn't seem to want to ponder why folks are having these low bit rates even though their other devices aren't. and even though, in my case, I had next to zero complaints about Netflix on my ATV. What I hate more is when you back out to your instant queue after viewing a movie description it brings you back to the beginning of the queue.

I will try another measurement in a few minutes when my son goes to bed and the Wii isn't streaming simultaneously.

 

[notjustjay]

Netflix works well with my ATV2 here, but it does get blocky and pixellated quite often so it's clearly dropping down in speed. I can't say if it happens significantly more than it does with my PS3. However, our lovely Canadian bandwidth caps are so low that I don't mind, in fact I feel a bit more relieved that I'm less likely to exceed the caps as a result.

 

[aced411]

I have this issue with my ATV2 as well. Everything else streams fine (rented movies and TV shows, etc) but Netflix is plagued by buffering issues. Works perfectly fine on my PS3 or Wii. Definitely not a wifi issue b/c it is hooked up via an ethernet cable to my Airport router. Didn't really bother troubleshooting it since I'm happy to watch Netflix on my PS3.

Add me to the list. Both atv2's buffer, and recently the audio/video has been getting out of sync. No issues on my 360. I've tried wired and wifi. I have comcast 12mb down with an airport router. Ive tried everything. OpenDNS, static IP...you name it. My only guess is I've noticed sometimes on the 360 the connection takes a dive. Of course it adjusts to crap quality then in a minute or two it readjusts to normal....leading me to believe these occasional dropouts throw the atv out of wack.

 

[mccoppin]

Netflix works great!

I actually enjoy my experience with Netflix on my ATV2. It's sad how some people have problems with this device while others have none.

 

[wovel]

I play netflix on my ATV2, Vizio internet enabled TV, Wii, Xbox 360, computers, and iPhone. The ATV2 has the least buffering issues of all devices except the Vizio (which plays flawlessly every time). The ATV2 begins playing faster than other devices as well.

This has been my experience as well, with almost exactly the same devices.

 

[jtara]

Here is one blog that did a write up on another alleged fix to the problem.

http://www.compunoodle.com/fix-apple-tv-2-netflix-streaming-problems/

That writer shows an extraordinary lack of knowledge about networking and DNS.

There's no way that the choice of a DNS server, or whether the DNS server address was "handed out" by DHCP or set statically, would have any impact whatsoever on streaming performance. The only possible failure due to DNS would be a failure to initially connect to Netflix.

Further, the writer shows a lack of knowledge about static DHCP address allocation. Setting the address(s) of the DNS server(s) is a completely separate issue. Setting Google's DNS server "manually" is NOT "allocating a static address in the middle of a DHCP allocation pool" as the writer has asserted.

So, this is a guy who doesn't know boo about networking except for a few buzzwords he can sling around, telling us he found a solution because of a supposed correlation.

I think the tree branch just stopped rubbing against his cable feed...

(FWIW, I don't have Apple TV. Netflix works great on both my Samsung plasma TV and my Samsung Bluray player. Never had a buffering issue. OK, other than the "cable modem reboots itself every 1/2 hour to 2 hours" issue... I have a 30mbit/sec connection from Cox.)

P.S. Just came across this in the thread:

BTW, Netflix is probably using a Content Distribution Network (CDN) and likely uses your DNS server as a way of locating where you are. If you are using something like OpenDNS or Google DNS, the CDN can get confused and send your stream from a non-optimal (i.e. far away) location. Changing to OpenDNS will probably exacerbate the situation, not solve it.

Hmmmm... Naw, I don't think so. I don't see how a site would know what DNS server(s) you used to resolve the site.

CDNs do use technology similar to that used by some DNS setups - Anycast. With Anycast, your computer sends a message to a given address, and MULTIPLE hosts around the world receive the same message. The first one to receive it (and perhaps others) respond.

The thing is, even given some way for a site to discover which DNS server responded, it's likely that Google and OpenDNS both use Anycast routing. In fact, these may actually provide a more local DNS server than your default, given that cable companies generally use regional rather than local DNS servers these days.

CDNs use a similar arrangement to determine which server to send you content from. Anycast itself isn't suitable for websites, but a network of Anycast servers can receive a message, "compare notes", and then arrange routing of the HTTP requests to a particular host.

But I think the methods CDNs use are completely separate and independent of your DNS resolver setup.

 

[DustinT]

My ATV 2 works flawlessly with Netflix and all the other streaming sources.

 

[Irishman]

Exactly what the title says. Wanted to share this with anyone considering buying ATV2 specifically for Netflix streaming. Save you some heartache....I have 2 ATV2 and PS3 and a Wii. ATV2 is the worst and I constantly get buffering and timeout during movie play. This is with a 20Mbps download speed wired connection. If I switch movie to other source I do not have the problem at all!

Very disappointed and wanted to share this. Personally I feel it is intentional, but who knows. What I do know is that I don't experience it with the other devices. To me it is a bad deal since the ATV2 device has very limited functionality and is designed for streaming, and it performes the worst?

So my advice is to get it for other reasons, but DO NOT get it for Netflix....there are other better options.

Recent updates did not fix bugs on this, and i think it is unnacceptable. This is a known problem and Apple could care less about all the complaints and concerns that have been voiced. Pretty annoyed about it.

Yeah, I don't know what was wrong in your experience, but mine couldn't be more different.

I have watched many dozens of Netflix movies on my ATV2 with no issues at all.

Just want folks to know that what you're describing is not normal.

 

[wovel]

That writer shows an extraordinary lack of knowledge about networking and DNS.

There's no way that the choice of a DNS server, or whether the DNS server address was "handed out" by DHCP or set statically, would have any impact whatsoever on streaming performance. The only possible failure due to DNS would be a failure to initially connect to Netflix.

Further, the writer shows a lack of knowledge about static DHCP address allocation. Setting the address(s) of the DNS server(s) is a completely separate issue. Setting Google's DNS server "manually" is NOT "allocating a static address in the middle of a DHCP allocation pool" as the writer has asserted.

So, this is a guy who doesn't know boo about networking except for a few buzzwords he can sling around, telling us he found a solution because of a supposed correlation.

I think the tree branch just stopped rubbing against his cable feed...

(FWIW, I don't have Apple TV. Netflix works great on both my Samsung plasma TV and my Samsung Bluray player. Never had a buffering issue. OK, other than the "cable modem reboots itself every 1/2 hour to 2 hours" issue... I have a 30mbit/sec connection from Cox.)

P.S. Just came across this in the thread:



Hmmmm... Naw, I don't think so. I don't see how a site would know what DNS server(s) you used to resolve the site.

CDNs do use technology similar to that used by some DNS setups - Anycast. With Anycast, your computer sends a message to a given address, and MULTIPLE hosts around the world receive the same message. The first one to receive it (and perhaps others) respond.

The thing is, even given some way for a site to discover which DNS server responded, it's likely that Google and OpenDNS both use Anycast routing. In fact, these may actually provide a more local DNS server than your default, given that cable companies generally use regional rather than local DNS servers these days.

CDNs use a similar arrangement to determine which server to send you content from. Anycast itself isn't suitable for websites, but a network of Anycast servers can receive a message, "compare notes", and then arrange routing of the HTTP requests to a particular host.

But I think the methods CDNs use are completely separate and independent of your DNS resolver setup.

You said a lot, but we have verified dozens of times that users on the same network using different DNS servers will be connected to different CDN edge servers and can have vastly different performance. You seem to understand the basics of DNS, but nothing at all about this use case.

For example, if your desktop is configured to use DNS server a statically, but your router is handing out 8.8.8.8 to all of the clients, you can (and often do) see problems with Netflix and other services that try to match geography by DNS server. We verified this on 10 different devices in a lab for an ISP customer. As a side note the any cast nature of 8.8.8.8 can cause some variation in results, moving to our own hosted static DNS platform always seemed to put us in the same edge (even after dumping the cache) and offered the most consistent performance.

To answer your other point, most large CDN implementations do use directional dns to direct users to the geographically closest edge. If you understand how recursive DNS queries work, then you can see why the choice of DNS server matters.

 

[WissMAN]

I'm not sharing this to argue on here. Just looking out for others. I would say it was just a bad deal, but after my second atv box in the living room with same problem as my bedroom....I am going to say it is not an isolated incident. Also, do a google search it is all over the web. Glad some don't have to deal with it, but it is a real issue for many. Especially when the ps3 is plugged into the same switch and doesn't do it.

My ATV2 has had sporadic issues over the year, (once every 2 weeks or so).. Seems only with Netflix however the next day it works great. Odd...

I have Fios with 25/25 and other Netflix (iPad or pc) seem okay. Even pushing Netflix from the iPad to the ATV2 is fine when the ATV is slow.

 

[pksteffen]

ATV2 on Comcast and Netflix streams beautifully

I purchased an ATV2 in advance of their shipping. Upon arrival, it did have serious issues streaming Netflix while iTunes and Youtube worked perfectly well. An Apple update soon fixed the issue. It has worked fine ever since. That was a long time ago - yours should have received the update...

Everyone told me and the other early adopters that it must have been our network setups, which was plausible. But in the end, it was definitely something that was only cleared by the update from Apple.

I am on Comcast and run a WIFI network that sees speeds anywhere from 2 mbps on slow times on my PC to 16 mbps on fast times on my Mac. (My PCs always run speed tests about 25-50% slower than my Macs, probably due to VPN bottlenecks)

I also think the thread title should be changed since I'd wager that a majority *now* find that it streams Netflix beautifully. I do occasionally get a "service unavailable" message for Netflix which is only cleared by rebooting my Apple TV by removing the power plug from the back for a few seconds. This has only happened a few times. Annoying, but for a V1 ATV2, I expect occasional hardware or software issues.

If yours is not streaming, I'd head straight for the Apple store. I don't think that is to be expected. I use my ATV2 for watching Netflix content more than for anything else. I am very satisfied with it's performance.