Other Does the Pixel 3A compel Apple to release its own mid-range device?

[TrickyTreeRed]

And yet the xs and xs max still out sold the pixel 3 and pixel 3xl.i believe the xs max and xr each sold 16 million units for q4 18.

Guess that didn’t matter to consumers.

Regarding the 3a I firmly believe it to be doa. Prices will fall to about $200 in 3 months time.

It might do well in India or not, it’s a very competitive market for budget models, it might be over priced and under specced compared to the competition in India. Time will tell.

The Pixel 3 launched at $799 USD. The Pixel 3A costs $399. That's half the price. The Pixel 3XL cost $899 USD at launch compared with $469 for the Pixel 3A.

Google has learned its lesson from the $799 Pixel 3 and has priced the 3A accordingly. Smartphone sales, especially the high-end models, are falling worldwide. Google has reacted to the trend. Unless Apple wants to see a further fall in iPhone sales and marketplace share, the company should seriously consider offering updated phones in the $400 to $500 USD range.

You mentioned India. Are you aware Apple only sold between 1.6 and 1.7 million iPhones in that country last year? That's around a 50% year-over-year drop. India has spoken with their wallets when it comes to iPhones.

 

[FFR]

Prices are already $300 if you count the rebates best buy and other stores are giving, and pretty much $100 if you go through tmobile.

Rrp will drop in 2-3 months guaranteed.
This is not a day 1 purchase.

Sure T-Mobile will let you trade in a phone for any number of smartphones, I wouldn’t waste it on the pixel 3a though.

As a $300-400 device it is justifiable albeit questionable when you can get a used iphone 7 plus or iphone 8 for that price, but as a $100 device I think we can both agree it's a no brainer.

But it’s not a hundred dollar device, the rebates and trade ins are offered for a number of other phones as well.

An iPhone XS Max for 400 or 500 dollars is a no brainer.

Now, is this phone better than an iphone 7 plus? It depends what you want, do you like customization, how often do you use your camera, do you prefer a lighter phone (the iphone is significantly heavier), do you think android has caught up to iOS, etc).

I would pick a iPhone 7 Plus over a pixel 3a xl.
Wouldn’t have to think twice and in three months the 7 plus will still be worth more than the pixel 3a.

 

[FFR]

The Pixel 3 launched at $799 USD. The Pixel 3A costs $399. That's half the price. The Pixel 3XL cost $899 USD at launch compared with $469 for the Pixel 3A.

Yup the pixel 3a is cheaper than the 3.
But you can get a pixel 3 for half the price today.

Google has learned its lesson from the $799 Pixel 3 and has priced the 3A accordingly. Smartphone sales, especially the high-end models, are falling worldwide. Google has reacted to the trend. Unless Apple wants to see a further fall in iPhone sales and marketplace share, the company should seriously consider offering updated phones in the $400 to $500 USD range.

Pixel 3a has cheaper components and a cheaper price, but still over priced for what it offers.


Apple is doing great, revenue was only down 5% last quarter.
If you think apple is struggling, who would you say is doing well?

You mentioned India. Are you aware Apple only sold between 1.6 and 1.7 million iPhones in that country last year? That's around a 50% year-over-year drop. India has spoken with their wallets when it comes to iPhones.

That equals to about 20% of the premium smartphone market in India.

Yeah that’s great.
Even when prices are at an all time high consumers still buy iPhones, even in India.

 

[CrockettGTO]

I'd happily switch to the 3a except I'd have to give up my Apple Watch and there isn't an alternative I like as much at the moment.
And here is the thing, Apple's lock in- using iMessage and the ease of sync with existing devices users already have make it hard to switch to an Android phone for some users.
I'm not terribly happy about Apple locking me in, but the effort of getting a Pixel 3a- even though it's a much better option for me just isn't worth the hassle.

+1 iMessage keeping me coming back and to not selling my data for profit like the G. Also kind of weird’s me out when every android app needs access to practically every function, even when it makes no sense (flashlight apps needing call log data etc.)

 

[PrettyWings]

And it's also an Android phone. If you've been there before and you're looking at both options, sometimes it's just nice when your apps don't crash.

 

[AustinIllini]

And it's also an Android phone. If you've been there before and you're looking at both options, sometimes it's just nice when your apps don't crash.

Android apps are designed to work on Pixel. The apps won't crash on a Pixel very often.

 

[trfc54]

Rrp will drop in 2-3 months guaranteed.
This is not a day 1 purchase.

Sure T-Mobile will let you trade in a phone for any number of smartphones, I wouldn’t waste it on the pixel 3a though.



But it’s not a hundred dollar device, the rebates and trade ins are offered for a number of other phones as well.

An iPhone XS Max for 400 or 500 dollars is a no brainer.



I would pick a iPhone 7 Plus over a pixel 3a xl.
Wouldn’t have to think twice and in three months the 7 plus will still be worth more than the pixel 3a.

It's a limited time promotion which I don't believe is applicable for any other phones at the time.

I bought a used first generation pixel for $90 on eBay, with $10 tax I walked out with the 3a, taking my total to $100. To me that is a hundred dollar device.

Show me where I can buy an XS Max for 400 or 500, and I'll agree that's a no brainer too.

 

[PrettyWings]

Android apps are designed to work on Pixel. The apps won't crash on a Pixel very often.

I suspect much more often than an iPhone.

 

[nordique]

Apple has the iPhone 7 and you can also find the 6s cheap too.

So apple has mid range options

 

[AustinIllini]

I suspect much more often than an iPhone.

maybe...?

I never had a lot of crash issues on the P3

 

[PrettyWings]

maybe...?

I never had a lot of crash issues on the P3

Do you use many apps other than the stock apps?

 

[Breezygirl]

Apple has the iPhone 7 and you can also find the 6s cheap too.

So apple has mid range options

Old tech, not new released models.

 

[satchmo]

The iPhone still has one major competitive advantage; iOS.

IMO, this is over-rated. I don't think there is a chasm or major advantage. Android is pretty darn good.

The plethora of good affordable phones lately, underscores how far Apple has lost touch with pricing. iPhones are good, but not at sometimes double the price.

 

[I7guy]

IMO, this is over-rated. I don't think there is a chasm or major advantage. Android is pretty darn good.

The plethora of good affordable phones lately, underscores how far Apple has lost touch with pricing. iPhones are good, but not at sometimes double the price.

We can argue the value to cost ratio until the cows come home and it’s different for every person.

 

[Tmacc47]

No.

Look, I’m not saying that I like it, but just being realistic. I absolutely hate that flagship prices are at or above $1,000.

That’s why I’m voting with my wallet. I’ve had two flagship devices, the iPhone 5 and Galaxy S5, which were both $649. I refuse to buy a $1000 phone and wish others would too, because maybe that would make manufacturers drop prices. Even with device installments, $40 a month doesn’t sound appealing at all.

 

[TrickyTreeRed]

IMO, this is over-rated. I don't think there is a chasm or major advantage. Android is pretty darn good.

The plethora of good affordable phones lately, underscores how far Apple has lost touch with pricing. iPhones are good, but not at sometimes double the price.

I've owned (and own) Android devices and have no difficulty using their operating systems, but I do prefer iOS as I find it a little more intuitive.

That being said, I'm not wedded to the Apple ecosystem. My iPhone SE is paired to my iPad Pro but my computer is a Dell XPS and I don't own a smartphone.

While I wish to continue to use my SE until late 2020, phone size (more compact the better), build quality, battery life and price will be top considerations when replacing it. I don't need a smartphone with facial recognition, wireless charging, the highest possible resolution display, or the loudest speakers.

The XR starts at over $1,000 in Canada and is far too big for my needs. Sell me an updated phone that's a little smaller than the iPhone 7 or 8 for around $650 CAD and I'll be happy and a continued iPhone customer.

 

[nordique]

Old tech, not new released models.

That's irrelevant to the point of the thread. Old or new, what's the purpose of the 3a? It hits a price point that Google doesn't have representation in. Apple does and this is why they don't release "midrange" phones. They might update this bracket in the future with a mid range device but they have that market need met. Their 2 year old flagship is arguably a superior device to all these 2019 mid range droids.

Speaking to the iphone 6s/7 specifically, the processors are comparable. The cameras are upper mid range or better when compared to Android devices on the market. iOS support is there. Much better build quality given they were premium flagships vs Google's new budget plastic phone. They don't have OLEDs but the screens are still fantastic with the 7 still having a very well calibrated displays

The 3a beats them in the camera department but the 6s and 7 still take better pictures than most mid range androids phones.

If you have used a 3a, you'll know it's not very snappy compared to the regular Pixel 3, and if you have a 6s or 7 nearby on iOS 12 compare the two. The 6s on iOS 12 is faster. The 3a is almost a "half step" behind. It's subtle but it's there.

So what is the point for apple to invest the r&d in a brand new mid tier device when their 2015 and 2016 flagship phones are still faster on iOS 12 than all these mid range androids, pixel 3a included?

TLDR; this "old tech" is still a great experience and fits that midrange price. If Apple has a device at that price point, then why do they need to release a mid range device? They don't. They have that need met in their lineup. Those phones are still selling. There is a secondary supply chain taking care of the SE and 6s with carriers that are even cheaper than the 7 which is apples officially supported lowest price point.

This is why they won't release a new device in that bracket, at least not for the time being.

 

[Breezygirl]

That's irrelevant to the point of the thread. Old or new, what's the purpose of the 3a? It hits a price point that Google doesn't have representation in. Apple does and this is why they don't release "midrange" phones. They might update this bracket in the future with a mid range device but they have that market need met. Their 2 year old flagship is arguably a superior device to all these 2019 mid range droids.

Speaking to the iphone 6s/7 specifically, the processors are comparable. The cameras are upper mid range or better when compared to Android devices on the market. iOS support is there. Much better build quality given they were premium flagships vs Google's new budget plastic phone. They don't have OLEDs but the screens are still fantastic with the 7 still having a very well calibrated displays

The 3a beats them in the camera department but the 6s and 7 still take better pictures than most mid range androids phones.

If you have used a 3a, you'll know it's not very snappy compared to the regular Pixel 3, and if you have a 6s or 7 nearby on iOS 12 compare the two. The 6s on iOS 12 is faster. The 3a is almost a "half step" behind. It's subtle but it's there.

So what is the point for apple to invest the r&d in a brand new mid tier device when their 2015 and 2016 flagship phones are still faster on iOS 12 than all these mid range androids, pixel 3a included?

TLDR; this "old tech" is still a great experience and fits that midrange price. If Apple has a device at that price point, then why do they need to release a mid range device? They don't. They have that need met in their lineup. Those phones are still selling. There is a secondary supply chain taking care of the SE and 6s with carriers that are even cheaper than the 7 which is apples officially supported lowest price point.

This is why they won't release a new device in that bracket, at least not for the time being.

In your opinion. My point still stands and is just as relevant to the topic.

 

[TrickyTreeRed]

In your opinion. My point still stands and is just as relevant to the topic.

I think he just confirmed your point! The 3A has a better camera, better screen, the latest Android OS at a lower price than the older iPhones he mentioned.

 

[Ixon2001]

That's irrelevant to the point of the thread. Old or new, what's the purpose of the 3a? It hits a price point that Google doesn't have representation in. Apple does and this is why they don't release "midrange" phones. They might update this bracket in the future with a mid range device but they have that market need met. Their 2 year old flagship is arguably a superior device to all these 2019 mid range droids.

Speaking to the iphone 6s/7 specifically, the processors are comparable. The cameras are upper mid range or better when compared to Android devices on the market. iOS support is there. Much better build quality given they were premium flagships vs Google's new budget plastic phone. They don't have OLEDs but the screens are still fantastic with the 7 still having a very well calibrated displays

The 3a beats them in the camera department but the 6s and 7 still take better pictures than most mid range androids phones.

If you have used a 3a, you'll know it's not very snappy compared to the regular Pixel 3, and if you have a 6s or 7 nearby on iOS 12 compare the two. The 6s on iOS 12 is faster. The 3a is almost a "half step" behind. It's subtle but it's there.

So what is the point for apple to invest the r&d in a brand new mid tier device when their 2015 and 2016 flagship phones are still faster on iOS 12 than all these mid range androids, pixel 3a included?

TLDR; this "old tech" is still a great experience and fits that midrange price. If Apple has a device at that price point, then why do they need to release a mid range device? They don't. They have that need met in their lineup. Those phones are still selling. There is a secondary supply chain taking care of the SE and 6s with carriers that are even cheaper than the 7 which is apples officially supported lowest price point.

This is why they won't release a new device in that bracket, at least not for the time being.

I was thinking of trading in my iPhone 7 32GB for the Pixel 3a just yesterday when i finally got to see and test one in person in the end i decided against it, don't get me wrong the 3a is a good phone for the price... but i think the iPhone 7 which is roughly the same price new as the 3a in the UK is still a better choice overall even with only 32GB of storage.

 

[nordique]

In your opinion. My point still stands and is just as relevant to the topic.

But the discussion point is surrounding Apple releasing a new mid range device. I'm sure we would like them to release something "new" in this price bracket but why would they when they have that price bracket addressed?

And it's not just my opinion. It's Apples. Read through their investor Q&A sessions from the last 7 or so quarters. They have been been asked this question several times in several different ways because they are not well represented in big markets, such as India where they are pretty much nonexistent. Apple feels their older flagships or cheaper devices like the SE address this.

There were rumors that Apple might release an updated iPhone 8 next March but it won't be for 399 USD. They will let their older mods fill that price point.

I also understand you maybe haven't used a pixel 3a. They arent very snappy. This might be a software related issue but I found it to be noticeable. Even the camera doesn't quite take pictures as quick as an iPhone 7 or the pixel 2, nevermind the regular pixel 3
[doublepost=1558009312][/doublepost]

I think he just confirmed your point! The 3A has a better camera, better screen, the latest Android OS at a lower price than the older iPhones he mentioned.

I don't quite understand. Your thread is asking, quite explicitly per the title, if the 3a compels apple to release its own mid range device.

So how does it compel apple to do that when:

1) Apple has their own products that they feel covers this price range. They have said as much in their investors meetings, multiple times. Do iagree with their reasoning? No I personally don't but you asked if the 3a compels apple to release their own mid range

2) the 3a camera is of course great but that doesn't rule out older iPhones as having terrible cameras. They are good and they are better than most mid range smartphones. The 3a has a great camera simply because Google has designed the best smartphone camera and even a version of its latest camera without the ISP is still damn good. But it doesn't mean suddenly the 6s or 7 take crappy pictures. The 6s and 7 offer more on the video side of things by the way.

3) screen...come on do you think if Apple were to release a hypothetical 399 phone they would put in an OLED display? They wouldn't. Would we like them to? Yes of course we would. They won't though. The retina HD displays in the 6s and 7 are fine. Your eyes can read text messages and emails on the phone without bleeding. For the average consumer this is what matters, if their screens were bad today, people wouldn’t buy their phones today. Apple sees sales at the end of their quarters

4) regarding the OS well apples 2013 flagship supports the latest version of iOS. So a phone 2 and 3 generations newer should reiceve support just as long.

5) apple would have to invest millions of dollars to release a new phone even in the mid range. They already have product lines set up for the SE, 6s and 7 in different factories around the world. They already invested the R&D in the A9 and A10, chips which outperform the adreno gpu and Qualcomm 670 in the pixel 3a. They have more than the required LTE bandwidth support in their older phones. They have fantastic build quality. So what compels apple to release a 399 range device when they already have the production lines? Would apple even release a 399 range device? Has a competitor ever truly compelled apple to do anything? It took them 2-3 iPhone generations to match what the galaxy s6 and s7 did years before.

I’m just discussing around the question you asked in this thread. Should apple address this market? Probably. Do I think they need to? Yes especially in India which is the second biggest smartphone market in the world yet apple has no presence there. But are they compelled to? No, I don’t think they are and I base that off what they have said themselves and trying to understand it from their perspective. The iPhone 7 will still likely outsell the pixel 3a, so why would they feel they need to when they have something is that range?

I’m all ears for discussion but no one has proved anyone’s point lol. It’s all irrelevant and moot because Apple will do whatever they want and we will either praise it or critique it. The consumer will vote with their wallet but apple themselves are convinced that their price points are not the issue with their massive drop in year on year revenue. Or at least, they have convinced most of their investors.

And the end of the day it’s the sales and revenue that drives decisions, so if you’re apple and your 2 generation old flagship has sold more in one month than the entire pixel product lineup has in its entire existence, what would compel you?

 

[satchmo]

And the end of the day it’s the sales and revenue that drives decisions, so if you’re apple and your 2 generation old flagship has sold more in one month than the entire pixel product lineup has in its entire existence, what would compel you?

You have some valid points, but the iPhone 7 is still $450 vs. $400.
Pixel 3a has OLED and larger and higher res display.
Trade-in makes the Pixel 3a $149.

Apple doesn't 'need' to jump into the mid-range space. But sometimes perception is reality. I think many are tired of overpriced high-end phones. It might be something Apple consider before an uncontrollable backlash against them occurs.

 

[nordique]

You have some valid points, but the iPhone 7 is still $450 vs. $400.
Pixel 3a has OLED and larger and higher res display.
Trade-in makes the Pixel 3a $149.

Apple doesn't 'need' to jump into the mid-range space. But sometimes perception is reality. I think many are tired of overpriced high-end phones. It might be something Apple consider before an uncontrollable backlash against them occurs.

Cheers. Yeah I don’t disagree. What I feel is that

Apple may internally be responding but that remains to be seen. They have chosen to blame profit shortcomings on exchange rates and currency fluctuations and external market factors as opposed to people trending towards uncontrollable backlash, which they don’t seem to be since there are enough people who buy these phones and justify it - but as long as their raw sales are as high as they are or unless they change their attitude towards it, we will continue to have a portion of apples current market that will look to other attractiveness options, like the pixel 3a. But most of the general market is still choosing the iPhone based on sales. Pixels are niche relatively speaking. Will be interesting to see how 3a performs relative to prior pixel devices

And the thing is it’s hard to see them go in that direction when they have no reason to. If they do release that rumoured iPhone 8 spec update, it will probably still be 650$ usd and still just a spec update to the 8 like the SE was to 5s

 

[apolloa]

From the reviews I’ve watched and read about the Pixel 3A and 3A XL, Google could have a very popular phone on its hands. It has decent specs, a solid display, an excellent camera, a guaranteed three years of OS updates, an earphone jack (!), and it’s being sold at a very competitive price.

Compared with the 64gb iPhone XR, the similar-sized 64gb Pixel 3A XL is being sold here in Canada at $649 CAD - that’s $380 CAD less than the XR ($1,029 CAD). If you compare the XR with the smaller 3A, we’re talking about a $480 CAD price difference. And this is before taxes.

Does anyone else think that these new Pixel devices could oblige Apple to release its own mid-range and lower-price device, like it did in 2016 with the iPhone SE? I can definitely see Apple’s market share being eroded if they fail to act.

If I was looking today to replace my SE, I know where I’d be spending my money – and it would not be going to Apple’s pockets.

It damn well should!! At the incredibly bare minimum it should make them put an OLED in the XR, the 3A XL has a better OLED screen and is half the price!!

I would love my choices next year to be between a new XE and XR both with OLED screens, but I do very much doubt that will happen, this IS Apple, the ones who stick an LCD in a premium priced phone and claim an OLED would cost too much... well it’ll only cost their bottom line too much!
Oh and Qualcomm modems would be nice too of course.

But what gets me is Apple seems rather clueless how to make an OLED work? I mean I’ve read on here people cannot use an Apple OLED, because it gives them headaches etc, but they can use a Samsung one fine? Yet Samsung makes Apples OLEDs..

 

[sam2428]

It's a limited time promotion which I don't believe is applicable for any other phones at the time.

I bought a used first generation pixel for $90 on eBay, with $10 tax I walked out with the 3a, taking my total to $100. To me that is a hundred dollar device.

Show me where I can buy an XS Max for 400 or 500, and I'll agree that's a no brainer too.

I'm considering doing something similar. Google is currently offering $250 for a iPhone 6 (which i own unlocked in mint condition and has been collecting dust in my drawer for a few years now). I would also receive the $100 promo on top of the trade in which would bring the 3a for me down to $49 (399 - 250 - $100). Very tempting to as a secondary phone for fun.

I currently own an iPhone X whose face ID camera stopped working a couple of months ago. I'm too heavily invested in the Apple eco system to leave....but the techy inside me has been wanting to try out an Android phone for some time. My last android phone was prior to the iPhone 4.

For $49, it would be nice to try out and if I dont like it...it'll be my "unlocked" phone I can use for travel or backup while I wait and see what Apples next flagship model will be.