Does the Surface Book have any one second thinking the iPad Pro?

[Krevnik]

The Surface Pro 4 seems to have a leg up on the iPad in the stylus department, being that it's included and has an eraser and clip. I really wish Apple had gone further with their Pencil... But I really just don't enjoy Windows, and I enjoy it even less on tablets. I find it to be generally very unintuitive and clunky, but I just upgraded my Boot Camp to Windows 10 so they may impress me. From everything I've seen it makes much more sense to expand a tablet OS than downsize a desktop OS in terms of usability and functionality on large tablets.

I'd say the two styluses make different trade offs. I do like that the surface pen has the eraser/button. However, the lack of recharging at all (go buy one on a yearly cadence I guess?), and the fact they won't talk about the input beyond pressures is worrisome. Apple's input for tilt and direction is a plus for more natural input if you want more than handwriting input, and I don't yet know where the two come out in terms of input lag yet, it could go either way, but 240Hz sampling is a bit more frequent than the best Wacoms, and Microsoft hasn't said anything about their poll rates.

The Surface pen feels more like a handwriting/note focused tool, while the Pencil feels more like an artist focused tool. Neither really hit all the marks for both.

 

[Noble Actual]

I'd say the two styluses make different trade offs. I do like that the surface pen has the eraser/button. However, the lack of recharging at all (go buy one on a yearly cadence I guess?), and the fact they won't talk about the input beyond pressures is worrisome. Apple's input for tilt and direction is a plus for more natural input if you want more than handwriting input, and I don't yet know where the two come out in terms of input lag yet, it could go either way, but 240Hz sampling is a bit more frequent than the best Wacoms, and Microsoft hasn't said anything about their poll rates.

The Surface pen feels more like a handwriting/note focused tool, while the Pencil feels more like an artist focused tool. Neither really hit all the marks for both.

The way you charge the Apple Pencil (LMAO) is actually worrisome.

 

[akuma13]

Again another reason that Apple will release something to the world only when it's perfect and feel natural to use it
the pencil and iPad pro

http://www.creativebloq.com/adobe/how-drawing-actually-feels-apple-pencil-101517150

Nice read. It's telling how Adobe is making their apps cater especially to the ipad Pro and ios. The tablet mode with Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator were a joke on the Surface 3

 

[pat500000]

Apple’s not talking, so it’s all speculation and observation, but observation tells me the iPhone and MacBooks are huge successes, the iPad was a pretty big success which seems to be fizzling, and nobody I know has an iWatch or is even talking about wanting one. So basically I’m thinking “uh oh.”

I have this same feeling about the new Mac Pro too. In the past, my friends and I were the guys who always bought the latest towers, but I didn’t buy the new one, and nobody I know bought it either. Again, Apple’s not talking, but I’m thinking “uh oh.” Actually, I was thinking “uh oh” two years ago when it came out and none of us wanted it, because we’re the ones who always want this stuff.

Whatever way it goes, Apple will survive, but I’m not sure I’d go long on Apple stock right now.

I'll be honest...i do feel iPhone will be huge success every year...no doubt about and possibility macbook...or macbook family.

 

[rowspaxe]

because people can't afford to buy the watch that means is not a real well build product.
the fit and finish and materials are top on any smartwatch

I see "smartwatch" as a category failure--people just aren't that interested. I see the apple watch as a flop because Tim Cook was so outspoken about how this was life changing technology, etc. Remember all the subsequent talk here about how devs were going to rescue this, etc. But none of it is happening because it turned out people really like playing with their phones. Now no one is even writing about the apple watch--its cultural impact is zero.

 

[Krevnik]

The way you charge the Apple Pencil (LMAO) is actually worrisome.

To quote Ars:

The accessory charges with a Lightning connector that plugs directly into the iPad Pro or an included dongle—this connector is used to pair the Apple Pencil with the iPad Pro the first time you use it. The connector is hidden under a removable magnetic cap at the top of the device. Apple says the pencil should last about 12 hours, and that in emergencies 15 seconds of charging can provide about 30 minutes of use.

I do wish Apple was clearer here themselves to put this particular issue to rest.

 

[PatriotInvasion]

As tempting as it is to get excited for an "all-in-one" product, in the end, most end up being not great versions of anything. With the Surface Book, you get either an oddly large, thick tablet with virtually no compelling apps or a rather heavy 3.5lb portable laptop that runs Windows. Plus it's expensive. Give me a Mac and an iPad all day.

 

[rowspaxe]

With the Surface Book, you get either an oddly large, thick tablet with virtually no compelling apps...

Photoshop, toonBoom, Illustrator, ArtRage, Painter...what are you talking about?

 

[newellj]

As tempting as it is to get excited for an "all-in-one" product, in the end, most end up being not great versions of anything. With the Surface Book, you get either an oddly large, thick tablet with virtually no compelling apps or a rather heavy 3.5lb portable laptop that runs Windows. Plus it's expensive. Give me a Mac and an iPad all day.

The SB is a laptop that happens to have a removable display. AFAIK even MS isn't calling it a "tablet," referring to it as something like a "clipboard." In any case, even if the world of Windows apps is lame (which is probably true), the point of the SB and the SP is that they run a desktop OS, which is part of why I don't really see the SP3 as a competitor for the IPP (or vice versa).

 

[Beavix]

Let's settle this once and for all:

So one is a tablet and the other one is a laptop.
If the tablet also works as a laptop (or the other way around), that's an advantage, not a flaw.

 

[whodatrr]

Between the two, I think I still prefer the SP. Since I currently have the SP3, I can't really justify it. But I am guilty of loading an SP4 in my cart, a few times, in the last couple days. Here's why I prefer the SP, over the SB:

1. Better Tablet - Much longer batter life, with KN detached. Smaller and lighter, with KB detached.
2. Cheaper
3. Good enough graphics, with i7 Iris. I push a few high-res displays with my SP3, but I don't game. The SP3 currently does a fine job of this, but I'm sure the SP4 would be better.

I have been in a couple situations with my SP3, where lap-ability wasn't great. But really, it was good enough. And the slightly improved type cover should help with that.

The Surface Pro line is really shaping up. For those who are concerned about them being heavier than iPads, it;s a non-issue for me. Really, the kick-stand helps with this.. it's great for just about any kind of surface.

Just bought my woman a Surface 3, yesterday, and she loves it! A bit smaller than the SP, but more power than she needs. It's also very small and light.

 

[Amazing Ox Space Monkey]

Does the Surface Book have any one second thinking the iPad Pro?
Not for a moment. When used as a tablet, the battery of the SB lasts for only 3 hours (if the official data is to be trusted) which is so 1990. That's not useable for most of my use cases. To have a laptop and a tablet in a device like SB is actually not a good idea - the moment you want to upgrade(replace) the laptop or tablet part you must replace the other one, too - exactly like the iMac and its monitor. In this aspect the SP makes more sense. But it has its own set of problems.
I do think this Surface Book gets the mac crowd too carried away. Undeservedly. The technology isn't there yet to make such device fully functional in the way it wants to be seen.

 

[Kal-037]

Finally Microsoft does something worth my time with their PCs. I always wondered why Microsoft had never made their own laptop... So it's about time. I still will not be buying one due to the price but mostly because of the OS. Yes Windows 10 is much nicer than 8, (much, much nicer.) But I don't like the constant updates, registry errors, and virus issues that plague the Windows world more often than the Apple world. Do I think Micrsoft knocked their keynote out of the park? Yes and not only out of the park but into the parking lot and through a car windshield. lol
I think the Surface Book and Pro 4 are beasts, (a big thanks to Skylake and custom made NVidia chips,) but still beasts nonetheless.
Now comparing the iPad Pro to the surface is really truly like comparing apples to oranges. The iPad is a more productive/powerful iPad iOS device and that's about it. The surfaces are complete PCs (I don't see it as a tablet at all.... it's still a PC but with a removable screen, lol.) I really like the sound of their power and specs, and the design is not too bad either. I've been using and repairing Windows PCs for a long time, but it's only taken 1 year of use for me to see that Mac still has better hardware and OS.
Though the surface could be that game changer that makes Windows PCs a bigger better competitor to Apple.
I still want an iPad Pro for the ease of use, the design, speakers, power, and screen. The Apple pencil also still looks a bit better than the surface's pen. I also like iOS because I like not having to worry about constant updates, restarting after updates, and fixing viruses or registry errors.
Despite the OS shortcomings, Windows 10 is definitely starting to bring me back to accepting Windows computers relevant again, (like XP once did.)
Again, after watching the reveal and snippets of the keynote, the Surface Book is looking like a real Microsoft rival to the Apple MacBook Pro (right now it actually looks a little better in terms of power.)
So now Apple will need to step up and give their MacBook line a shot of adrenaline to get back to being the bigger beast. But then again they may just do what they usually do; add a bump in specs by way of a new processor and longer battery. I'm hoping they'll surprise me in the Spring or whenever they update their Mac line-up, but I am not holding my breath.

*my apologies for the long and rambling post.



Kal.

 

[brentsg]

The discrete GPU is in the keyboard base, therefor no dGPU in tablet mode - that is, when the screen is not attached.

But even with this, the battery life is advertised at 3 hours when detached from the keyboard. That alone tells me it's not a legit tablet. They're even advertising it as a "clipboard" because they know this.

People thinking Surface Book is comparable to the iPad Pro are missing it, I think. The Surface Pro remains the primary comparison device.

 

[neutrino23]

I'd like to try it first but I will almost certainly get the iPad Pro. From the videos that have been leaked of testing at Pixar and Disney the Pen looks awesome. For years I've wanted a great, high resolution stylus to use to interact with information. I'm not an artist, rather I work with arrays of scientific data. This would also be great for note taking while acquiring data. I do that now but it is like writing on a white board with a fat marker.

I would use this as an adjunct to a rMBP so I'm not sad that it doesn't run OS X. The larger screen will allow the Pro to do a better job of accessing OS X online through some sort of VNC client. It works "OK" now but the small screen makes for lots of pan and zoom.

 

[mixel]

The SP4 would be VERY tempting to me if the stylus was more suitable for drawing. I've read two different accounts of wobbly slow diagonal lines - some artists wouldn't have problems with this, depending on their drawing style, but i do a lot of smaller strokes, so as a pure art device for me the SP4 likely fails before the first hurdle.

I'll try both in shops though before making any decisions.

 

[philosopherdog]

At the moment this is a lot of marketing hype. Microsoft has a poor record of delivering anything that really works. Besides you don't rollover one day and decide you're really not a monopolistic software company but really a hardware company. Apple has decades of experience doing this. It shows. But I'm glad kids are getting excited by Microsoft again. I'm not impressed personally. The surface and their detachable screen laptops are not new devices at all. PC makers were doing this stuff 10 years ago.

 

[Kal-037]

I agree... after reading further into the specifications and prices, Microsofts claims are a tad far fetched. To get more power than a MacBook Pro 13 inch, you would need to max out the Surface Book to $1899.... that's ridiculous. .... For a moment there I was happy Microsoft was actually doing some cool things.


Kal.

 

[sracer]

The biggest reason to pass up on the Surface Book is because it is a Microsoft 1st gen device. With Microsoft, "3rd times' the charm". Simply look at the Surface and the Surface Pro. It took the 3rd gen of each for them to really get it right.

And actually, with the Surface (non-Pro) they bailed out on it at the 2nd gen (running Windows RT). Didn't actually make it to the 3rd. (Surface 3 runs Windows x86 not Windows RT).

 

[Daku93]

However, the lack of recharging at all (go buy one on a yearly cadence I guess?)

The pen uses a replaceable AAAA (Yes, thats 4 times A) battery.

 

[whodatrr]

Agreed. I think they didn't nail the SP line until SP3. The SP3 finally nailed the category and is truly performant enough to be a true desktop/laptop. The SP4 just refines that further, in dozens of small yet meaningful ways. That sort of improvement takes iterations and is hard to nail in the first strike.

But the SP4 certainly refined. Having held and used it, I really can't think if much I'd change (maybe USB-C?). With the limitations of current technology, you just can't do much more at this moment in time.

It will likely take the Surface book a rev or two to get there. though much of the capabilities are standing on the shoulders of Surface Pro, so it isn't quite as bad. But there are a few things I think I'd want to see, in order to nudge me into investing so much into a Surface book:

- Tablet runtime long than 3hrs
- USB-C, since this is more of a pro/workstation class product (at least in today's world), I'd want something with serious external I/O
- No gap
- And just general refinements you get with a 2.0 version of a new product line

With inexpensive and innovative 1.0 products, I'm Ok with rolling the dice. But with premium-priced innovative releases, waiting for the 2nd train to roll in is usually a batter approach. YMMV.

Me, I'm going SP4.

The biggest reason to pass up on the Surface Book is because it is a Microsoft 1st gen device. With Microsoft, "3rd times' the charm". Simply look at the Surface and the Surface Pro. It took the 3rd gen of each for them to really get it right.

And actually, with the Surface (non-Pro) they bailed out on it at the 2nd gen (running Windows RT). Didn't actually make it to the 3rd. (Surface 3 runs Windows x86 not Windows RT).

 

[psg2000]

It looks beautiful to me

 

[newellj]

The biggest reason to pass up on the Surface Book is because it is a Microsoft 1st gen device. With Microsoft, "3rd times' the charm". Simply look at the Surface and the Surface Pro. It took the 3rd gen of each for them to really get it right.

And actually, with the Surface (non-Pro) they bailed out on it at the 2nd gen (running Windows RT). Didn't actually make it to the 3rd. (Surface 3 runs Windows x86 not Windows RT).

True enough, and true with any 1st Gen device, not just MS (great example: original MBA; possible great example (time will tell): rMB).

 

[Nausicaa]

The SP4 would be VERY tempting to me if the stylus was more suitable for drawing. I've read two different accounts of wobbly slow diagonal lines - some artists wouldn't have problems with this, depending on their drawing style, but i do a lot of smaller strokes, so as a pure art device for me the SP4 likely fails before the first hurdle.

I'll try both in shops though before making any decisions.

I tried it out at the MS store and while it's improved, it's still a deal breaker for me. The stairstepping diagonal lines are still there, and pressure registration is still all over the place. I only tried it in OneNote, but I wasn't impressed. Even handwriting seemed to lack responsiveness and couldn't capture those small quick lines we call letters when quickly scribbling notes. It's certainly better than dumb stylii on iPads so far, but I think in general people overstate n-trigs capabilities. I'm hoping Pencil performs better, more like Cintiq.

 

[jmgregory1]

I would venture to guess that once the real world reviews start trickling in, no one, not even MS, will be saying the SB is better than any Macbook, save for year's old versions.