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El Capitan = Windows Vista
- Thread starter kathyricks
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That's a bit of a logical fallacy.
SIP is an additional security measure. It was not available previously.
Disabling something that protects your machine because you don't understand it is a bit like making sure your car alarm is turned off and your car is unlocked when parking your car.
But yes, if your mac will run el-capitan, and your apps work with el-capitan, then running previous operating systems is a mistake (vs. "was"), from a security perspective.
You're funny.
I'm just saying that it's not "a mistake" to disable SIP. It's a choice. Like flying on a plane versus never flying.
If you don't know what you're doing, and you do not have any software you NEED that requires it to be disabled, then yes it is a mistake.
There is zero benefit (other than being able to run crap software) to be gained by turning it off, only downside that it is much easier to compromise your machine.
If something doesn't work with SIP, you should be asking questions about what it is doing to your machine...
You might not want to assume that people who know how to disable SIP don't understand the ramifications of what they're doing. And anyway, what constitutes "crap software" is a matter of opinion. A lot of Apple software could be described as crap. Heck, some people consider El Capitan to be crap, hence its nickname, El Crapitan.
I was referring a previous poster who said "i wouldn't know about the benefits because i turned it off on all my systems".
From his perspective SIP must seem almost like malware. It prevents him from using software he wants to use, in exchange for features he didn't ask for and has never needed.
I completely disagree, but hey it's my own experience.
I upgraded my 2010 non retina MBP (8GB, SSD) to Yosemite and boy that was bad. Lots of issues, overheating, slow.
Then El Capitan came along, and it's now such a perfect laptop that I honestly believe it's even better than when it was new. All my instability and performance issues have been fixed by El Capitan, and for free.
So I am very happy about this OS.
I upgraded my 2010 non retina MBP (8GB, SSD) to Yosemite and boy that was bad. Lots of issues, overheating, slow.
Then El Capitan came along, and it's now such a perfect laptop that I honestly believe it's even better than when it was new. All my instability and performance issues have been fixed by El Capitan, and for free.
So I am very happy about this OS.
I've been using Macs since 1999, with a break between 2001 and 2006, and I have never encountered a situation in which I would have sighed "if only I had [something like] SIP". Why do you think I don't understand what it does?
...and then you re-enabled it? installing some apps (like cdock) requires SIP to be disabled, but, after they're installed, you can re-enable SIP.
icloud is constantly is your face to enable it. "hold-outs" is an interesting way to describe persistent SL users. Perhaps they're just smarter than the rest of us and maybe they're not "hold-outs". What's the justification to replace SL with successor versions? If you claim security then Apple is failing to protect their users by not fixing security bugs in SL. Otherwise, Apple is selling a product not fit for the purpose if there's not an upgrade path to the latest security fixes on the OS (El Cap), so try telling that one to those who have a glass ceiling at 10.7 Lion. When I buy a washing machine, the manufacturer doesn't time limit me to a shelf life. The same with computers. Apple has an obligation to support SL until the last computer the could support it dies.
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If you're computer was "overheating" then that sounds like a hardware issue. Are the vents in your computer blocked or is the fan dirty? You might want to take it to a Apple technician at the iStore.
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SIP is great tech IMO but disabling it should reduce you to the same security level as Yosemite. Is that good/bad? Well, I ran Yosemite for a year so it was good then but it's bad now. But in a year's time, El Cap will be bad because 10.12 is good. Should we not be running El Cap given that logic as it'll eventually go bad when all the cyber-hackers have exploited all those exploits?
I don't know much about Windows Vista, as I didn't use it long enough.
But talking about El Capitan, I need to use it because my Mac was shipped with Yosemite, and Yosemite was simply awful and really buggy. Notes app never open after first launch, and system fails to start after a freeze, forcing me to do another clean install, although issue was still there.
El Capitan (or El Crapitan in some user's eyes) is not good, but it is at least more stable than Yosemite. I have a good record to run it in 30 consecutive days without even logging out. 10.11.2. This is a fairly impressive result.
Windows Vista should not be that bad, but Windows 7 is much better and lots of users forget about Windows Vista after 7's announcement. Almost all University lab PC use Windows 7 Enterprise, and some university software is only fully compatible with Windows 7.
OK. Just my personal experience.
But talking about El Capitan, I need to use it because my Mac was shipped with Yosemite, and Yosemite was simply awful and really buggy. Notes app never open after first launch, and system fails to start after a freeze, forcing me to do another clean install, although issue was still there.
El Capitan (or El Crapitan in some user's eyes) is not good, but it is at least more stable than Yosemite. I have a good record to run it in 30 consecutive days without even logging out. 10.11.2. This is a fairly impressive result.
Windows Vista should not be that bad, but Windows 7 is much better and lots of users forget about Windows Vista after 7's announcement. Almost all University lab PC use Windows 7 Enterprise, and some university software is only fully compatible with Windows 7.
OK. Just my personal experience.
I agree that Yosemite has far more bugs, although I doubt El Capitan has "too many" bugs as it can run on my Mac over 30 days.
Did you try to root cause the issue? E.g. are you using non-Apple software which introduces OS hacks, or are you using drivers from 3rd party hardware? Maybe it's not a stability issues so much as an app problem you're having?
By way of comparison, I've been using Macs since 1988, and I've never needed anything like SIP either. Under pre-OS X systems you were basically running as root all the time, even though there was no actual command line or user account system. I think the only two files in the whole OS I couldn't gleefully toss into the Trash at will were the "System" and "Finder" icons, and even then I think it was only because they were "in use" or something.
Also, the Finder was wonderfully spatial and windows never forgot their view settings, but I digress.…
I use a lot of non-Apple software, from freeware to commercial software. I also use third-party drivers to support the read/write of certain disks. But everything is perfectly fine until this March, in which I see 4 times of kernel panic/system restart without a reason. I kept SIP disabled until today.
I am not really sure the root cause, but I would like to install applications from scratch and see which one is responsible for system instability.
The third party Trim Enabler extension used to cause me kernel panics under El Capitan.
That's not malware, and Apple is making design choices in light of hackers. In this day and age, its foolish to leave the OS completely open.
I think you're making a mistake by putting words in another member's mouth since he did not say that
By mistake, you mean less secure, then yes that is true.
Thank you this has helped me too I hate the spell checker - thank you a zillion times.
My Macintosh SE running System 7.0.1 is still running like a champ. Apple has not provided me with any software or security updates in over two decades. Are they failing me? No.
My Beige G3 running OS 9.2.1 is still running like a champ. Apple has not provided me with any software or security updates in well over a decade. Are they failing me? No.
My Power Mac G5 running OS X 10.5.8 is still running like a champ. Apple has not provided me with any software or security updates since 2012. Are they failing me? No.
All of these computers are in the same situation that you have described; the last two can happily connect to the internet and be exposed to modern threats. Why is Apple obliged to support these machines until they die? Your washing machine doesn't have a shelf life, but the manufacturer only builds replacement parts for it for a certain period of time. GE won't offer any support for a washer that you purchased in the 1950s, even if it still works. Microsoft drops support for versions of Windows after a period of time. There are still businesses out there that are running on Windows 2000; is Microsoft obliged to offer them support because they are not moving on from an older product?
My wall oven broke, and I called the manufacturer, they refused to repair it because its over 20 years old. I think there is a limit to which companies support their products.
You have access to the parts list that a third party can install and those parts will have OEM equivalents to allow repair. This is analogous to Apple providing security updates to SL for, what they claim is, obsoleted hardware. I'm sure you'd be a little annoyed if your wall oven was not usable in a safe way after 5 years of ownership. That's the injustice faced by many Mac users restricted to SL. All Apple needs to do is fix security issues in SL indefinitely and most would be happy.
No I don't, hence the need to replace it.
Shelf life as it were is beyond 5 years and I'd not buy a product that doesn't offer that.
So I guess, to use your example, don't buy Macs, because you know Apple will not supply parts to a computer beyond 5 years.
Apple like other makers have a solution to address that security issue - upgrade the OS (and if need be the hardware). Appliances are expected have a shelf life of 10+ years. Personal computers by their very nature are not.
I've been using the Mac since system 6.0.5. I loved Snow Leopard. And Mavericks too. But El Capitan is greek to me - can't get anything done without all the time and fustration pain listed above. Same with my friends new El Capitan computer - we both bought 13" laptops brand new with 10.11.2 preinstalled - and it's much harder for us to do the routine daily things on our computers that were easy on Snow Leopard and Mavericks.