El Capitan's user ratings even worse than Yosemite.

[ctg7w6]

I run Logic Pro X on my MBA. Still no issues. This musician knows not to update until software is compatible. That's computer recording 101. My main rig is still Snow Leopard because it works.
If those thousand musician don't know never upgrade your main rig in pre or mid project and don't upgrade until plugs and software are compatible that's on them.
Computer Recording 102 never upgrade pre or mid project wait for downtime and even then wait for compatibility.

I agree with this to a certain degree. It is what I do (though with academic work, not music). Nevertheless, I still place the blame on Apple if there are widespread problems. Upgrading should not be a very risky proposition. The risk should be minimal. Those in the middle of projects should attempt to minimize this risk even further by holding off on upgrades.

The problem is that upgrading with Apple has become increasingly riskier over the past few years to the point that it is a fairly risky proposition.

 

[ABC5S]

Never a problem for me as well, but all I do is download the OS, and use it without messing with it, or downloading a bunch of software or apps that have not be tested properly for the new OS.

 

[KALLT]

Apple is known for pushing bleeding-edge software, which makes OS X inherently unstable. Bugs and issues will always accompany major releases of OS X and iOS, it will never be different as long as Apple sticks with fixed annual schedules. I can live with these problems, as OS X has always had them, even the highly-praised Snow Leopard. What I do notice and don't like is a lack of finish overall, in apps and other aspects of the system.

 

[AppleB]

I agree with this to a certain degree. It is what I do (though with academic work, not music). Nevertheless, I still place the blame on Apple if there are widespread problems. Upgrading should not be a very risky proposition. The risk should be minimal. Those in the middle of projects should attempt to minimize this risk even further by holding off on upgrades.

The problem is that upgrading with Apple has become increasingly riskier over the past few years to the point that it is a fairly risky proposition.

I've been using Mac 0S since 1992-93 which was OS 6.
I've never ever had a OS where there weren't any issues, bugs and such its the nature of the beast. Some have been more stable than others.
My point is if a user is doing critical work they have to take the responsibility of updating. If they are doing whatever they do with whatever OS and not having and problems either don't update or research if your apps or tools are compatible. If not wait till they are. If there is a feature that's in a update a user desires weigh the pros and cons of getting that feature vs what tasks are important to you.
As far as I'm concerned every OS is a beta.
Not too long ago you had to pay for a new Mac OS I think Leopard might have been $90 bucks. Now it's free!!!
Jesus they give it away for free and the user can't do some research if it's compatible with what they do.

 

[KALLT]

My point is if a user is doing critical work they have to take the responsibility of updating. If they are doing whatever they do with whatever OS and not having and problems either don't update or research if your apps or tools are compatible. If not wait till they are. If there is a feature that's in a update a user desires weigh the pros and cons of getting that feature vs what tasks are important to you.

I concur. Just because Apple keeps pushing annual updates, doesn't mean that users need to play along. Apple still provides some security updates to older versions.

 

[sracer]

I concur. Just because Apple keeps pushing annual updates, doesn't mean that users need to play along. Apple still provides some security updates to older versions.

What about the point that I raised about software compatibility?

 

[oldmacs]

While EL Capitan has fixed numerous issues with my Mac and made it faster, i've got no doubt in my mind that Apple should go back to a 2 year relate cycle to ensure reliability.

 

[KALLT]

What about the point that I raised about software compatibility?

Well older versions should still work, no? Same story, you just sit it out when you can. It is unfortunate that some app developers are targeting only the latest versions of OS X.

 

[ctg7w6]

I've been using Mac 0S since 1992-93 which was OS 6.
I've never ever had a OS where there weren't any issues, bugs and such its the nature of the beast. Some have been more stable than others.
My point is if a user is doing critical work they have to take the responsibility of updating. If they are doing whatever they do with whatever OS and not having and problems either don't update or research if your apps or tools are compatible. If not wait till they are. If there is a feature that's in a update a user desires weigh the pros and cons of getting that feature vs what tasks are important to you.
As far as I'm concerned every OS is a beta.
Not too long ago you had to pay for a new Mac OS I think Leopard might have been $90 bucks. Now it's free!!!
Jesus they give it away for free and the user can't do some research if it's compatible with what they do.

Like I said, there is still personal responsibility and common sense.

Every OS has issues. My point is this: 10 years ago I switched from Windows to Mac and never looked back... Until I tried Windows 10 and compared it to Yosemite and then El Capitan. For about 8 of those 10 years I looked forward to the yearly OS update. New features were awesome, and I was only limited by the fact that sometimes my hardware was "too old" to use the new features, even when I knew that the hardware could use some of those new features, but Apple just didn't enable it. But, I thought, what the heck, I've got a stable operating system that I never really had with Windows, so it is worth it.

Now, I don't think Windows 10 is as stable as El Capitan. And I know there are bugs in both of them. But the gap is not as wide as it once was, and it is because Microsoft has improved, but also because Apple's quality has gone down.

And I very much disagree that every OS is a beta. That is a cop-out. Eventually, a finished product must be released. We cannot simply always be in beta status. By this, I mean, problems need not be resolved for 100% of the users... That simply will not ever happen. But, in beta mode, let's say a problem affects 15% of users. Maybe in the gold release it should be 1-2% (or less). These numbers are examples, and not necessarily realistic, but there must be some difference between betas and released products.

If not, then we will go the way that a lot of PC games are: "early access" where you pretty much pay to be beta testers.

 

[Shirasaki]

While EL Capitan has fixed numerous issues with my Mac and made it faster, i've got no doubt in my mind that Apple should go back to a 2 year relate cycle to ensure reliability.

And iOS should be in the same release cycle.

I don't remember how long Windows 10 has been tested in their insider program, but at least it lasts half a year. Even that, build 10240 is still half backed. I can still see many issues here and there.

If Mac OS X can be as steady as Windows server, I would really like to use it to complete tasks. Now Windows 10 is still not steady.

Miss old time using Windows server 2008 R2.

But anyway, El Capitan is more stable than Yosemite, even it is upgraded from first beta to 10.11.1.

 

[ctg7w6]

I am having terrible Bluetooth issues with 10.11. Choppy music on my beats headphones. Can't connect my Apple wireless mouse. Apple wireless keyboard keeps disconnecting. All worked fine on 10.10.

My God, why did I upgrade? Apple's own products aren't working with my 2015 MBA.

 

[Queen6]

I have just rolled back the 13" rMB to 10.10.5 it`s seems futile to keep trying to install 10.11.1 when it refuses to work correctly on this system irrespective of what I do. Until Apple release another point release the issues I observed will remain. As a point of interest I did a clean install of 10.10.5 the system came up fast & smooth no issues so far, all third party applications installed and I now have my network speed back which was also significantly depreciated under 10.11.1

My experience of 10.11 was far from what I expected with the OS feeling almost glitchy which counters much of the praise. UI animation was undoubtedly smother, however the OS simply didn't feel like a cohesive package, with multiple Apple applications being broken or breaking. For me the OS must be stable above all else and OS X 10.11 is not currently at this level.

I will revisit 10.11 however I rather think it will be towards the end of the development cycle, even then I will seriously consider as from my initial experience Apple have produced an OS that superficially performs better, however once you really get into it 10.11 brings very little to the table.

As with all, individual usage & workflows will hide or hight issues...

Q-6

 

[oldmacs]

And iOS should be in the same release cycle.

I don't remember how long Windows 10 has been tested in their insider program, but at least it lasts half a year. Even that, build 10240 is still half backed. I can still see many issues here and there.

If Mac OS X can be as steady as Windows server, I would really like to use it to complete tasks. Now Windows 10 is still not steady.

Miss old time using Windows server 2008 R2.

But anyway, El Capitan is more stable than Yosemite, even it is upgraded from first beta to 10.11.1.

I think iOS should be on a 1.5 year release cycle to be honest. I miss the days OSX would get past 10.x.5 - Tiger was pretty damn solid and got to 10.4.11..

 

[leman]

Unfortunately a single person's experience is called an anecdote. You need to take large samples or group experiences and then objectively see if the issues they face are true. For example, if thousands of musicians are angry their software and drivers no longer work that's a serious problem. If thousands more are angry that WinClone can no longer restore Bootcamp backups without disabling SIP, that's a messy issue. If Bootchamp no longer works for EFI installed Windows, that annoys people too.

I am happy that we now have a thread dedicated to anecdotes here

On a more serious note: yes, 10.11 brings some dramatic underlaying changes that break badly designed software and software that abuses undocumented OS features. Instead of complaining to Apple, complain to app developers (Apple has been communicating that these chances are coming for few years now). Example WinClone and many other apps: they now have been updated to 10.11.

 

[Tourgott]

El Capitan is awesome. No problems for me. Runs really smooth - even on my second MacBook which is from 2010.

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

A few minor graphical issues here, which I am sure will be fixed in time. Given the enormous speed boost my 2011 iMac received instead, it is absolutely worth it. Best release since SL for me personally.

 

[George Dawes]

Deleted 13,000 of my old emails , won't connect half the time to the app store when it does won't download anything ( on 3 x separate routers ) , software that ran on the last os doesn't work on this etc etc

Not impressed

It's free - I guess you get what you pay for

 

[Shirasaki]

It's free - I guess you get what you pay for

Well, this is often the case.
Didn't know anything about Mac OS X before Yosemite. I mean, I didn't use them thoroughly.

 

[Queen6]

Deleted 13,000 of my old emails , won't connect half the time to the app store when it does won't download anything ( on 3 x separate routers ) , software that ran on the last os doesn't work on this etc etc

Not impressed

It's free - I guess you get what you pay for

Unfortunately OS X is not free, it`s baked into the cost of every Mac, Apple is just being clever with their approach, equal the OS should work at very least with Apple`s own applications clearly for many this is not the case today.

Q-6

 

[randomgeeza]

I get that, I really do. Yet I simply fail to understand why even after a clean install why issues are occurring with Apple`s own applications on a system that previously ran 10.10.5 without any issue. It is beyond frustrating to say the very least.

Q-6

Agreed... as per my post about the mare I experienced yesterday... I am now rolling back to 10.10.5 CCC which I thankfully did prior to trying this ship. Sadly it started sinking the minute I clicked OK. It's a real shame!!! My faith in Apple is diminishing with each release of OS X. And the fanboys who claim Apple can do no wrong don't help. There are clear issues Apple chooses to ignore. On a clean install and in System Preferences alone I noticed at least three issues. Notifications and followupd a hidden process is not hidden. You cannot log into Devices in iCloud and then there was my issue with an iCloud lock out for 12 hours... rendering everything I own and attached to the account useless. IMHO it simply isn't good enough for the world's richest tech company to be releasing garbage like this. For the money we have to pay for the devices I expect it to be damn near perfect and if it's not, then fix it quick or don't release it.

Peace.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

I am happy that we now have a thread dedicated to anecdotes here

On a more serious note: yes, 10.11 brings some dramatic underlaying changes that break badly designed software and software that abuses undocumented OS features. Instead of complaining to Apple, complain to app developers (Apple has been communicating that these chances are coming for few years now). Example WinClone and many other apps: they now have been updated to 10.11.

WinClone's notes state that you still have to disable SIP to restore a Bootcamp image, which is not the developer's fault. They recommended that I continue using Yosemite if I don't want to fiddle with SIP.

It's really not a good idea to allow Apple to get off without criticism and just blame developers, because Apple will hurt you more and more in the future. No matter how much you like using their products, they are a greedy corporation at the end of the day and they will seal off your systems, prevent easy upgrades, control what you can and can't do, and be happy to use your personal data for their profits. People who don't complain get what they deserve and that's why you now have a line of computers with storage, battery and memory that you can't even upgrade or replace easily anymore. Now it's time to control all your software and limit you there too. Its their way of coaxing you into staying on their upgrade path that will cost you more over the long run and keep their biggest shareholders happy.

I'll be happy to move to Windows and Android permanently in the future. Any fanboy who says those are inferior products is simply living out a religious brainwashed meme and I'm just not primitive enough to be part of that.

 

[leman]

WinClone's notes state that you still have to disable SIP to restore a Bootcamp image, which is not the developer's fault. They recommended that I continue using Yosemite if I don't want to fiddle with SIP.

From their website: "Newer Macs running Windows 8 or above are fully compatible with SIP". But you might be right that there are issues with older Macs.

It's really not a good idea to allow Apple to get off without criticism and just blame developers, because Apple will hurt you more and more in the future. No matter how much you like using their products, they are a greedy corporation at the end of the day and they will seal off your systems, prevent easy upgrades, control what you can and can't do, and be happy to use your personal data for their profits.

I think that its great that Apple is tightening the security on the OS. I have been using 10.11 since earliest betas and I never had the feeling that it somehow controlled what I can and what I can't do. In fact, I welcome SIP because it helps me maintaining a stable system. I primarily work with open-source unix tools and I also develop such tools — and SIP is beneficial to my usage scenario. Plus, if I ever needed access to system files (I really don't know why that would ever be the case, but it might happen in the future), Apple offers an easy, clearly documented way to disable SIP or its components. Now, once they take that away and really block off the system (like they do in iOS), then I will get vey angry very quickly.

As to 'use your personal data for their profits', I think you are confusing companies here. Apple has by far the most clear to understand and most user-friendly privacy policy of all the tech giants. In fact, I have banned our employees from using Windows 10 until MS clears up their privacy policy.

I'll be happy to move to Windows and Android permanently in the future. Any fanboy who says those are inferior products is simply living out a religious brainwashed meme and I'm just not primitive enough to be part of that.

That is your choice. Windows is a no-go for me and many other people for a number of reasons (and the privacy policy of 10 is a reason to NEVER use it for anyone who even remotely cares about their data). So far, Apple has been delivering a very stable OS that does everything I need it to do.

I do agree that for people who predominantly use Office or Photoshop, Windows is definitely the way to go. Fortunately, the world does not revolve around these applications. I don't even have Office installed on my computer. I also don't accept assignments from my students submitted in Word, we are not primary school.

 

[leman]

P.S. Improving things is impossible without fundamental changes, and fundamental changes break stuff. Apple has ALWAYS been about making incompatible changes and forcing the dev to adapt their software. This is why they are still innovation and change drivers in the computer industry, with the rest essentially playing catch-up. Microsoft has adopted a radically different strategy with their Windows OS (up to 7), with backwards compatibility being the primary concern. Put it simply — OS X is radically innovative while Windows is radically conservative. As a rule of thumb, if you are looking for long-term compatibility and stability, Windows should be your first choice.

P.P.S. Things have changes since Windows 8, but I am a bit out of the entire Windows game at the moment. I know that working with 8.1 makes me incredibly frustrated, because the entire system is pure chaos and nothing really works.

 

[zhenya]

As for the ratings in the store, I'm fairly convinced that there is a large cadre of people out there who just give Apple bad reviews just because. Just as an example, in the online store the ratings for the usb-c digital adapter for the retina Macbook and the usb-c power brick are both at 2 stars. Which is ridiculous. Are those devices perfect? Nope, but they both do the job they claim to do and in the case of the adapter, it's the only adapter that can do what it does available anywhere for any price some 7 months after release. It's just sour grapes.

I don't doubt that people are having issues with El Capitan, but honestly, it is on you to make sure that you don't have any critical incompatibilities before you permanently upgrade a critical machine. You have to do exactly the same with Windows, every time. I would never, ever, upgrade a critical machine on either platform before having a complete, tested backup that I could restore the entire system to in minimal time with minimal effort. I had some early issues with the El Capitan beta on my Macbook but 1) it's not a critical device for me and 2) I had a backup that I used to go back to Yosemite in about an hour while I did something else. No big deal. On my iMac at home I know that the potential for disruption is much higher if something goes wrong and the real benefit to me of upgrading is much smaller, so I've put it off until I have some compelling reason, or have the time to deal with it in a way that I can easily restore if necessary.

Apple has done a pretty good job over the years of making OS X upgrades feel a lot like iOS upgrades, but there is still a lot that can go wrong, and they cannot possibly test every combination of scenarios. There is a reason that business Windows users are usually at least 1 release if not 2 or 3 behind what's current. Microsoft is trying to change that with Windows 10, but it's a big question as to how successful they will be. They are asking for a lot of trust from their users, and so far it hasn't been going well.

 

[F1Mac]

I'll be happy to move to Windows and Android permanently in the future. Any fanboy who says those are inferior products is simply living out a religious brainwashed meme and I'm just not primitive enough to be part of that.

You know, in 2015, the term "fanboy" or "religious brainwashed meme"...that is soooo last century - I'm tempted to say primitive even.