I did not upgrade immediately upon release of El Cap. I figured I'd wait for .1 Now looks like I'll be waiting for .2
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El Capitan's user ratings even worse than Yosemite.
- Thread starter OldGuyTom
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I was under impression that the golden rule was to wait for .3
That is what I recommend to my people anyway. Myself? I adopt a new OS before it is even released 
I was under impression that the golden rule was to wait for .3
Why the **** we have to wait every time for 4 releases to do our ****in business with our macs without problems.Why they don't perfectly polish every release like snow leopard and rush to release one os per year.Windows 10 works perfectly well out of the box.What happen with old Apple reliability.Same **** with ios.
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Now this is something I can agree with! There are some recent organisation issues at Apple and they appear to have culminated around 10.10 release. I believe that they are getting their act together now, but there are still some obvious quality gaps. I almost agree with people who say that OS X should move back to 2-yearly release rhythm. At any rate, Apple should improve their software quality control.
Sure no problem;
First install was an upgrade of 10.10.5, basically failed due to Apple`s Mail crashing & deleting SMTP settings unable to restore without hard boot, followed by more of the same, duplication of mail accounts. Basically the application was in an unusable state. Accounts are MS Exchange, MS Outlook, Google, iCloud. Preview consuming enormous amounts of RAM to the point of slowing the application, in time the system. AirDrop total failure. General reduction of UI perforce over 10.10.5, felt rather like the whole OS was breaking. System Preferences extremely slow to open, Dock icon would bounce for 10-15 seconds. Many other small random issues (10.11.1 resolved specific issues with the Installer & Mail and of course most importantly more emojis
)Subsequent installs of 10.11.1 were clean, no Migration Assistant, no Time Machine, SSD wiped clean; failed Safari unable to install extensions, Preview behaviour unstable crashing etc. network performance significantly diminished over Wi-Fi, same issue as above with System Preferences. Mail very slow unsure if related to network performance or the application, seemed to be continuously downloading content.
I tried two clean installs the second with no third party applications, same installer upgraded my daughters Early 2011 15" MBP with no apparent issue, equally her usage is very different to mine, as the system was mine the software package is basically the same. If I had to put it simply; Installing El Capitan 10.11 is currently a "crapshoot" it may or may not work, based on your hardware. If you choose to proceed ensure that the system is fully backed up and not solely with Time Machine, or it may get ugly fast.
Hardware 2014 13" rMBP 2.8Ghz, 512 SSD, 8GB RAM - stock Apple system exhibited zero issues (12 months) prior to 10.11 and is employed in and engineering role seeing significant usage.
Rolled back to 10.10.5 on a clean install to validate hardware & software load, zero issues, which speaks volumes as the issues indicated above with 10.11 are all related solely to Apple...
Q-6
There is no issue with the leadership, they are delivering to the board & stockholders. As for the customer I doubt they care as long as the money keeps rolling in. I have little doubt that Apple will continue to grow, equally for those of use who shall we say are not the average consumer the "window" will become ever smaller.
Q-6
Apple serves the consumer, and the majority don't need too much out of their devices. OS X will continue to be depreciated moving further away from productivity, focusing more on "social media sharing", complex issues that only reflect a minority of users will likely be sidelined. What Apple was, and what Apple is are very different beasts...
Q-6
Because every new OS X reveals bugs in the third-party software
And Snow Leopard "polished"? Already forgot that bug that deleted user directories during upgrade? Any 10.10 and 10.11 bug is completely harmless in comparison. P.S. In regards to Windows 10 — not much can go wrong if you don't change anything...
Sorry, but this is nonsense. Apple has added tons of power-user features and improvements in the recent years. OS X right now is much more power-user friendly than say, the highly acclaimed Snow Leopard.
You are correct though in respect to Apple's server app. It has really been "dumbed down" considerably. On the other hand, the server is still half done, there are a lot of hidden things there that clearly target power users (and which were impossible with earlier OS X servers) — only that many of them don't really work yet
Thanks for the detailed answer. I really appreciate it.
"Crap shoot" is a perfect description. It was this way with Yosemite, and now it is this way with El Capitan. That is a major reason why I avoided Yosemite (even as a "plaything" on an external hard drive) and discouraged others from taking such a risky gamble (another main reason is that I just don't like many of the arbitrary, user-unfriendly interface and navigational changes).
I always clone my hard drive before upgrading. Unless a computer's owner gives me no choice, I never rely solely only on Time Machine (I don't like the way it works).
Sorry, but this is nonsense. Apple has added tons of power-user features and improvements in the recent years. OS X right now is much more power-user friendly than say, the highly acclaimed Snow Leopard.
You are correct though in respect to Apple's server app. It has really been "dumbed down" considerably. On the other hand, the server is still half done, there are a lot of hidden things there that clearly target power users (and which were impossible with earlier OS X servers) — only that many of them don't really work yet
Just the small things that likely impacts at the individual level. I sort of agree and equally disagree. Windows is where it`at for that, equally the learning curve is steep given the countless perimeters of the GUI, in many respects OX S`s terminal is more eloquent and consistent and of course it simplifies the GUI.
I still rather think that Apple will continue to look for the lowest common denominator, as their model is to serve the consumer. All in all it`s a catch 22; complexity over simplicity, usability over functionality, who is right to qualify one over the other, probably not me
Q-6
Just from the top of my head I can name examples like Finder tabs, filesystem-level tags, OS-level scripting with JavaScript, system-wide extensions, extended UI for WiFi, numerous improvements in the stock apps.
I would say that the GUI in OS X is more eloquent and consistent than anything of the kind in Windows. Right now Windows uses an unholy mix of Windows95 + these weird "modern" settings, where things seem to be thrown together randomly and no apparent logic is present. Windows 8 was especially bad, but Windows 10 does not change these things too much. In OS X, everything is centralised and clearly organised. Of course, advanced stuff is only accessible via the command line, but that is how its supposed to be IMO.
All in all it`s a catch 22; complexity over simplicity, usability over functionality, who is right to qualify one over the other, probably not me
I am a big fan of "Configurability is the root of all evil" software design principle
http://fishshell.com/docs/current/design.html
*****
...with the difference that beta releases are intended for testers and El Capitan is supposed to be ready usable for productive work!
I TRULY pity all the english speaking upgraders.
They cannot enjoy the utmost beauty of half-localized/half-english messages and names of the computer hard- and software under El Capitan, poor people...
In my case it usually comes so: the title in english, the message itself in german...and below again something in english... or sometimes the other way around.
A true delight for linguists!
Since the name "El Capitan" is spanish, It would certainly make a lot of sense if Apple adds now, besides the already present mixture of localized language and english, some SPANISH words, don't you agree?
It would be VERY politically correct!
I KNOW FOR INSTANCE A LOT OF INSULTS IN SPANISH I WOULD GIVE THEM ROYALTIES FREE.
APPLE, POR FAVOR, ME ESCUCHAS???
P.S. Someone found in another thread the explanation.
The name of the new OSX was misspelled. When written in the right way: "EL CRAPITAN", it makes much more sense...
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You've expressed how I feel as well!
The reason I find buggy OS software from Apple so incredibly frustrating is twofold.
1) I've been a loyal customer paying top dollar for new MB/MBA/MBP laptops & multiple Pads/Pods/Phones annually.
2) After two decades as a Apple customer I _know_ they can do it right if they want to.
The main reason we must endure various issues is Apple chooses to ship it as it is.
However I'm sure some are thinking "they've got to ship it at some point it can't be perfect."
Yes! I agree, I am NOT expecting perfect, just usable. It just doesn't have to be this buggy.
In the past their were little bugs, that's to be expected. But when my fresh new $3,000 fully optioned top of the line MBP won't even hold a WiFi connection... That's unacceptable.
Apples better than that, I know it and THEY brag about it ...
This is exactly where I am coming from. I switched to Apple 10 years ago because they were doing it right and Microsoft was not. For most of that decade, things were smooth. Now it isn't. They were once able to do it, but they aren't now.
Secondly, I pay a LOT of money for these devices. Which is fine, if the quality of construction is high and the software works.
But when I pay $1000 for a fully-loaded iPhone 6 Plus and it is a lag-fest one year later. Not cool. When I spend $1500 on a 2015 MBA that won't connect on bluetooth to $250 Beats headphones, $75 Apple keyboard, and $75 Apple mouse. When my fully loaded $900 iPad Air 2 doesn't work through continuity with my MBA and iPhone. Well, I just spent THOUSANDS to be in an ecosystem within which nothing works independently or with each other.
I could have spent a lot less money to be in no ecosystem in which things work at least half the time (which is horrible, but still better than not working at all).
What's happened is Apples becoming stronger, more profitable and far more influential.
Instead of using their wealth and influence in a good way, they've learned exactly how much they can cheat the customer out of. They now know how far they can push the customer with poor performance, poor quality and yet maintain sales volume. Every day sooner they push out unfinished software, saves them huge amounts of money.
What's happened is exactly the same we've seen for years. The worst release was 10.5 because it broke APE which a lot of tools/apps/tweaks depended upon. Everything else was about the same. People complained about 10.7 because it downloaded too slowly which is exactly similar to the previous release where they complained it took too long to be delivered (the last OS X to be released on DVD thus it had to be delivered physically). Then we have the complaints about things like Expose/Mission Control and so on. Nothing has changed in that regard. Don't believe me? Take a dive in the old threads of this forum and you'll see...
It's no different than every other previous OS X release and still a smoother upgrade than Windows (although they are catching up with Windows 10). Backups were the key back then and they are still the key now.
It's no different than every other previous OS X release and still a smoother upgrade than Windows (although they are catching up with Windows 10). Backups were the key back then and they are still the key now.
And it's running on closed hardware, its not like windows - this should work, first time, every time - all the time.
But I'm with you. i have 4 devices and its been less than perfect on 3 of the 4.
I am shocked but I haven't rate it yet because I don't see any problems with my 2012 rMBP so far today. It just worked fine. I am sorry you have some problems.
The race to produce a new OS every year isn't, IMHO, beneficial to consumers. No sooner so we get a stable release of one OS when it gets replaced by another, followed by loads of bugs and upgrade hell where all apps get updated and I seem to spend half my life updating OSX and iOS apps. Surely it's no coincidence that Windows XP lasted 6 years? Even today, new industrial software often uses XP. Bells and whistles don't matter...the ability for windows to run for weeks or months at a time without a reboot is the important thing.
Having said that, it's quite incredible that XP's replacement was pretty dire! I'd rather have a good stable OS replacement every two or three years. Sadly, it looks like we're locked into an annual cycle of OSX and iOS releases, even if they aren't really fit for public release. I think we're stuck with this.
BTW, I've no problems with El Capitan on either of my computers. However, OSX server cacheing service appears to no longer work for me. Rather inconvenient with satellite internet and a limited monthly download allowance.
Having said that, it's quite incredible that XP's replacement was pretty dire! I'd rather have a good stable OS replacement every two or three years. Sadly, it looks like we're locked into an annual cycle of OSX and iOS releases, even if they aren't really fit for public release. I think we're stuck with this.
BTW, I've no problems with El Capitan on either of my computers. However, OSX server cacheing service appears to no longer work for me. Rather inconvenient with satellite internet and a limited monthly download allowance.
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In such a case the logical decision for Apple would have been precisely not to change.
To change for worse is the wrong way of changing things.
That is the reason why so many users get back to the previous OS.
I regret to admit that Microsoft this time took the right decision and Apple the wrong one, but it is the sad truth...
-mid 2007 iMac
-early 2009 MBP
-mid 2014 MBP
No problems at all with El Cap. I kept iPhoto on all except the '09 MBP. Im trying to get to like Photos but it is a giant step backwards from iPhotos. Absolute train wreck of a program. iPhoto is a clean and easy way to arrange event albums. Please Apple, just let us have a thumbnail event option in Photos.
-early 2009 MBP
-mid 2014 MBP
No problems at all with El Cap. I kept iPhoto on all except the '09 MBP. Im trying to get to like Photos but it is a giant step backwards from iPhotos. Absolute train wreck of a program. iPhoto is a clean and easy way to arrange event albums. Please Apple, just let us have a thumbnail event option in Photos.
Aren't most of the one stars because they can't even install it?
So their opinion so far isn't about how it performs but rather only because they don't even have it yet
So their opinion so far isn't about how it performs but rather only because they don't even have it yet
The majority of Mac users quickly move to the latest OS version. Why would you expect them to bother with an old OS with a small user base?
Which doesn’t make their opinion less valid. Some friends of mine don’t know much about computers and they pretty much dependent upon the reliability of their Macs. These should just work without much hassle. Stuff that doesn’t work from the start is uninteresting or will be discarded. A friend of mine is still using Mountain Lion and asking me whether he should upgrade and the truth simply is that I know that he is probably better off when everything continues to work like it currently does. This is what Apple needs to tackle, its software should remain dependable.