Epic Games Plans for Alternative App Marketplace in EU as Apple Reinstates Developer Account

[wbeasley]

Because I use iMessage for like 99.9% of communications from my phone? Why on earth, especially if I have an iPhone and use iMessage all the time, would I send something to somebody on a different app? I don’t know which friends use other apps.

Because I don’t want to ask my mom and all of my friends to use a different app if I want to send them something in higher quality? Hoping RCS makes it better.

Because I don’t want to manually upload a video to dropbox, wait for it to process to stream, or download locally?

I have years of conversation histories which I often search back on, and I don’t want to lose easy access to those messages.

Am I crazy for thinking these are valid reasons to be annoyed by the lack of iMessage on Android?

Maybe it's country specific?
Seems only US still persists with SMS... most others seem to have embraced alt social media.

Dropbox is loading a file up. The original file. No changes. You get a link to download the original file...

You wont lose history. You just wont be adding to it. RCS isnt the magic pill it's been made out to be.

Well apart from iMessages uses your Apple ID to log in and securely transfer messages on Apple devices. Areyou going to be happy if iMessages Android requires an AppleID?

 

[wbeasley]

Because I use iMessage for like 99.9% of communications from my phone? Why on earth, especially if I have an iPhone and use iMessage all the time, would I send something to somebody on a different app? I don’t know which friends use other apps.

Because I don’t want to ask my mom and all of my friends to use a different app if I want to send them something in higher quality? Hoping RCS makes it better.

Because I don’t want to manually upload a video to dropbox, wait for it to process to stream, or download locally?

I have years of conversation histories which I often search back on, and I don’t want to lose easy access to those messages.

Am I crazy for thinking these are valid reasons to be annoyed by the lack of iMessage on Android?

What percentage of iOS is in the US?


In the US, iPhone has a 57.93% market share. As of 2023, Android has a 70.29% global market share. iPhone users have a 43.7% higher average salary than Android users. Gen Z and Millennials are more likely to be iPhone users.6 Dec 2023

So almost 60% of your friends already can use iMessages. And if they are younger, even more...

Android defection slowed last year but is still 13%.

what percent of the messages contain images and videos? high res. not low.

are you also demanding Apple make Facetime available to Android users? You can send them a link to join a session though. But they cant initiate it.

 

[Hails09]

Nintendo and all games consoles are very tightly controlled.
Why doesnt the EU look at that?
How much is gaming worth worldwide? and these companies "dare" to keep them closed

Because as I said nobody cares enough to want them open.

 

[tehabe]

Am I crazy for thinking these are valid reasons to be annoyed by the lack of iMessage on Android?

No. In Germany it wouldn't have made much of a difference. SMS were very expensive. MMS was dead on arrival, because it was sold as premium service and no "unlimited SMS" plan included MMS. So not many people used it. And when WhatsApp offered everything for essentially free people started using it. And it was available for many platforms. In the beginning even for some feature phones.

RCS was initially launched around the same time as iMessage but it wasn't build in and apps at that time were awful. Also it was (at least in Germany) only available for customers of the network carriers. Resellers or MVNO RCS was not available. So network effects were impossible to reach. So it was like MMS, dead on arrival.

Google took another shot at RCS and did what was good idea, push it more actively and helped carriers to implement it.

And with MMS being shutdown in Germany (Vodafone in Jan 2023, Telekom and Telefonica end of 2024), RCS is the successor indeed.

 

[AlmightyKang]

I eagerly await Epic's app store. I predict:

• It will come with a 30% markup which is paid to Epic.
• It will have exclusive apps on it which is found later down the line to be anti-competitive by the EU.
• Some apps will contain malware because the qualification process is lesser than Apple's.
• Only about 5 people will actually install it because they trust Epic less than Apple.
• Tim Sweeny will complain loudly in the press about Apple stifling business rather than them being a shithouse.
• Most of the EU use Android anyway so no one cares about it.

 

[mrat93]

So almost 60% of your friends already can use iMessages. And if they are younger, even more...

I already said that more than 99% of my messaging is via iMessage. Honestly I’m not sure what point you’re making with any part of your comment.

what percent of the messages contain images and videos? high res. not low.

Sorry, but… What percentage of images videos taken today — period — are anything other than high resolution? The only low resolution images on my phone are ones i’ve downloaded from the internet.

I am in a family group chat where we often share images and videos. If one of us switches to Android, then it all reverts to SMS/MMS, until RCS comes — and even that’s not certain to fix things.

If one of us switches to Android, then the entire group chat needs to migrate to a different app if we want to be able to send decent quality media to anybody. (Again; until RCS, maybe.)

are you also demanding Apple make Facetime available to Android users? You can send them a link to join a session though. But they cant initiate it.

I’m not demanding anything, but at least they have that option. FaceTime doesn’t hold a candle to iMessage as far as daily usage amongst users.

 

[wbeasley]

I already said that more than 99% of my messaging is via iMessage. Honestly I’m not sure what point you’re making with any part of your comment.



Sorry, but… What percentage of images videos taken today — period — are anything other than high resolution? The only low resolution images on my phone are ones i’ve downloaded from the internet.

I am in a family group chat where we often share images and videos. If one of us switches to Android, then it all reverts to SMS/MMS, until RCS comes — and even that’s not certain to fix things.

If one of us switches to Android, then the entire group chat needs to migrate to a different app if we want to be able to send decent quality media to anybody. (Again; until RCS, maybe.)



I’m not demanding anything, but at least they have that option. FaceTime doesn’t hold a candle to iMessage as far as daily usage amongst users.

you pick and choose what to attack ... iMessage NEEDS RCS (which is old and has issues anyway) but Facetime isnt needed (by you).

communication, which phone calls, SMS, and video chat are, are just tools. phone calls are hampered by small mics, compression, dropouts and network load. they aren't high res. the best tool is the tool you have available. who cares if it isnt the highest quality audio or video or image? and what's best now isn't in a few years.

never, even in a mised iPhone/Android group chat, have i ever had a single participant complain about the image, audio or video quality. i still dont get what files you need to transfer this way. please, an example might enlighten all of us.

 

[wbeasley]

Because as I said nobody cares enough to want them open.

YOU dont care.

there are plenty of forums where people are asking for media player apps to put on Switch.
it's the perfect device for travel. Great screen, bluetooth headphones, SD card for files, builtin stand. easy interface.
it just needs the app.

an app that other handhelds have had (even PSP).

other people would like file managers. or streaming services. Netflix in bed on a Switch?

but Nintendo control it tightly.

 

[Hails09]

YOU dont care.

there are plenty of forums where people are asking for media player apps to put on Switch.
it's the perfect device for travel. Great screen, bluetooth headphones, SD card for files, builtin stand. easy interface.
it just needs the app.

an app that other handhelds have had (even PSP).

other people would like file managers. or streaming services. Netflix in bed on a Switch?

but Nintendo control it tightly.

If it matters that much developers would be forcing them to open it up & going to somewhere like the European Union but nobody cares enough because the switch is a games console.

 

[wbeasley]

The difference is nobody wants office for Xbox or PlayStation because they are games consoles.
Epic have already mentioned consoles during the court case they are not interested in having epic store on them.

There are monitors that can run Office without a computer...

Compare Samsung Monitor Price and Features | Samsung New Zealand

Compare price and features for Samsung Monitors to find your ideal monitor for all of your computer, working and gaming needs.

www.samsung.com

Epic will try to make money however they can. If they win this over Apple, they will get cocky and seek to expand to other hardware using this as the legal grounds to do so.

 

[wbeasley]

If it matters that much developers would be forcing them to open it up & going to somewhere like the European Union but nobody cares enough because the switch is a games console.

Every game dev would love open, free access to games consoles. They could avoid the fees.

Imagine if MAME could run on these devices... just because the EU said they had to allow alt app stores to exist and alt payments

 

[diamond.g]

Every game dev would love open, free access to games consoles. They could avoid the fees.

Imagine if MAME could run on these devices... just because the EU said they had to allow alt app stores to exist and alt payments

I wouldn't be surprised to see the price of consoles increase drastically to "cover the loss in revenue".

 

[mrat93]

Sorry, i missed these and never sent this yesterday.

Dropbox is loading a file up. The original file. No changes. You get a link to download the original file...

Yes I know how to upload files to cloud services and send links to people, thank you.

So, the simple solution if I want to send a video to my group chat is:

1. Open Dropbox or Google Drive
2. Upload the file. If it’s a video, keep the app in the foreground for several minutes to ensure the file uploads fully (not everybody has gigabit internet)
3. Send the link immediately to the recipient,
4a. Recipient downloads the video locally to their device, using several hundred megabytes or over a gigabyte of local storage (assuming they have the storage)
… or…
4b. Recipient waits x minutes or hours for the video to be streamable
5. If recipient wants to save the video for themselves. they need to save to Files, and then add to their photo library.

Simple, easy, seamless…

You wont lose history. You just wont be adding to it. RCS isnt the magic pill it's been made out to be.

So unless I keep an Apple device, I basically lose my conversation history. If i want to refer back on a specific group chat, I need to use my old Apple device to check them. Fun!

Well apart from iMessages uses your Apple ID to log in and securely transfer messages on Apple devices. Areyou going to be happy if iMessages Android requires an AppleID?

Yes? Do other Apple apps like Apple Music use Apple ID on Android? (the answer is: yes, they do)

you pick and choose what to attack ... iMessage NEEDS RCS (which is old and has issues anyway) but Facetime isnt needed (by you).

I never said iMessage needs RCS — that doesn’t even make sense. They’re two different protocols. What are you talking about?

Last thing…

never, even in a mised iPhone/Android group chat, have i ever had a single participant complain about the image, audio or video quality. i still dont get what files you need to transfer this way. please, an example might enlighten all of us.

This video was once watchable, but then I sent it via MMS.

9 seconds, 192x144 resolution, forced letterboxed, 201 KB, 10 FPS. MMS is all but useless for sending videos.

So, There’s your example. A nine (9) second video of my cat. Perfectly acceptable quality. I’m sorry she didn’t say hi — she’s usually way more polite.

Save your time replying — I’m done.

 

[wbeasley]

Sorry, i missed these and never sent this yesterday.



Yes I know how to upload files to cloud services and send links to people, thank you.

So, the simple solution if I want to send a video to my group chat is:

1. Open Dropbox or Google Drive
2. Upload the file. If it’s a video, keep the app in the foreground for several minutes to ensure the file uploads fully (not everybody has gigabit internet)
3. Send the link immediately to the recipient,
4a. Recipient downloads the video locally to their device, using several hundred megabytes or over a gigabyte of local storage (assuming they have the storage)
… or…
4b. Recipient waits x minutes or hours for the video to be streamable
5. If recipient wants to save the video for themselves. they need to save to Files, and then add to their photo library.

Simple, easy, seamless…



So unless I keep an Apple device, I basically lose my conversation history. If i want to refer back on a specific group chat, I need to use my old Apple device to check them. Fun!



Yes? Do other Apple apps like Apple Music use Apple ID on Android? (the answer is: yes, they do)



I never said iMessage needs RCS — that doesn’t even make sense. They’re two different protocols. What are you talking about?

Last thing…



This video was once watchable, but then I sent it via MMS.

View attachment 2351599

9 seconds, 192x144 resolution, forced letterboxed, 201 KB, 10 FPS. MMS is all but useless for sending videos.

So, There’s your example. A nine (9) second video of my cat. Perfectly acceptable quality. I’m sorry she didn’t say hi — she’s usually way more polite.

Save your time replying — I’m done.

You put the effort in so lets respond...

You do know others can delete message trails so you wont be keeping a history? Unsend to all Recipients...

The MMS video "quality" is determined by telcos. Not Apple or Google. It's old from when they wanted to charge for MMS messages. We've moved on from there with cheap/unlimited data plans. Time for you to move along to a more modern method... although your 9 second compressed video probably get the message across well enough.

You say you cant wait to upload a video to a service, well even uploading to MMS is going to need access to the original file and compress it. The same file of 9 seconds would hardly take long to attach to a Skype chat or other messenger app that's cross platform. You really need to get with 2024. SMS (even disguised as iMessages) is old hat. Best for text. But as I pointed out before, depending upon age group, over 50% of your friends are using Apple devices and will get the large file in better res

When we visit Bali we used to by a SIM card with calls and data. Due to terrorism use of burner phones, they moved on and now everyone one just buys data SIMs. And uses VPN to load WhatsApp to get around government monitoring. They can do it. You can. Most of us dont even make voice calls anymore.

 

[wbeasley]

Sorry, i missed these and never sent this yesterday.



Yes I know how to upload files to cloud services and send links to people, thank you.

So, the simple solution if I want to send a video to my group chat is:

1. Open Dropbox or Google Drive
2. Upload the file. If it’s a video, keep the app in the foreground for several minutes to ensure the file uploads fully (not everybody has gigabit internet)
3. Send the link immediately to the recipient,
4a. Recipient downloads the video locally to their device, using several hundred megabytes or over a gigabyte of local storage (assuming they have the storage)
… or…
4b. Recipient waits x minutes or hours for the video to be streamable
5. If recipient wants to save the video for themselves. they need to save to Files, and then add to their photo library.

Simple, easy, seamless…



So unless I keep an Apple device, I basically lose my conversation history. If i want to refer back on a specific group chat, I need to use my old Apple device to check them. Fun!



Yes? Do other Apple apps like Apple Music use Apple ID on Android? (the answer is: yes, they do)



I never said iMessage needs RCS — that doesn’t even make sense. They’re two different protocols. What are you talking about?

Last thing…



This video was once watchable, but then I sent it via MMS.

View attachment 2351599

9 seconds, 192x144 resolution, forced letterboxed, 201 KB, 10 FPS. MMS is all but useless for sending videos.

So, There’s your example. A nine (9) second video of my cat. Perfectly acceptable quality. I’m sorry she didn’t say hi — she’s usually way more polite.

Save your time replying — I’m done.

Just to be clear, your example is a bit misleading...

MMS is telco controlled:
"The main problem with MMS is that most carriers have a strict limit on the size of files that can be sent. For example, Verizon only allows images up to 1.2MB to be sent over text messages and videos up to 3.5MB. AT&T is even stricter, only allowing videos up to 1MB in size. If an image or video is too large, it is compressed automatically."

Your 9 second file could have been 4 times larger (file size) at least.
You chose to make it look as bad a possible

So I AI upscaled it for you:

That's 667% more pixels than what you sent (kept the condescending audio for you though as it was).

Hope you get some enjoyment from viewing...

Given you made this video for me specifically, it's not an actual example of a file you say you need to send as I originally asked...

 

[Abazigal]

Every game dev would love open, free access to games consoles. They could avoid the fees.

Imagine if MAME could run on these devices... just because the EU said they had to allow alt app stores to exist and alt payments

I imagine said game console would simply exit the market altogether if it came to that. What's the point of operating in a country where there is zero profit to be made?

 

[mrat93]

Just to be clear, your example is a bit misleading...

MMS is telco controlled:
"The main problem with MMS is that most carriers have a strict limit on the size of files that can be sent. For example, Verizon only allows images up to 1.2MB to be sent over text messages and videos up to 3.5MB. AT&T is even stricter, only allowing videos up to 1MB in size. If an image or video is too large, it is compressed automatically."

Your 9 second file could have been 4 times larger (file size) at least.
You chose to make it look as bad a possible

So I AI upscaled it for you:

View attachment 2352214

That's 667% more pixels than what you sent (kept the condescending audio for you though as it was).

Hope you get some enjoyment from viewing...

Given you made this video for me specifically, it's not an actual example of a file you say you need to send as I originally asked...

I did the same research into file sizes too. And then I actually sent that source file via MMS.

That file was processed through Apple Messages. I had no control over it. It is a perfect example, actually.

 

[wbeasley]

I did the same research into file sizes too. And then I actually sent that source file via MMS.

That file was processed through Apple Messages. I had no control over it. It is a perfect example, actually.

That file was processed not by Apple but by your TELCO... they compress it and limit file sizes.
Your beef is really with them and old standards from early 2000s.

And you do have a choice.
Any other messaging app option would do it.

Even email will now seamlessly let you upload huge files and then send an email with a link for the receiver to download. Offer a link rather than embed the file.

I have regularly emailed large video files this way when working from home.
Training/promo videos. 5-10 minutes HD quality.

Seems people are more interested in picking on Apple and iMessages than actually using the right solution that meets the job needs

 

[wbeasley]

I imagine said game console would simply exit the market altogether if it came to that. What's the point of operating in a country where there is zero profit to be made?

Have you seen the market value of video games? bigger than Hollywood. there's still a lot of money to make...

But for some reason, the EU dont want to shake that tree.
Perhaps they're still salty after Nokia imploded from their market leading position?

 

[mrat93]

That file was processed not by Apple but by your TELCO... they compress it and limit file sizes.

I’m not certain but I’m pretty sure you’re wrong about this. You’re saying my 55mb video was sent to T-Mobile via MMS, and they did an instant conversion to send to the recipient? Wonder how that works, considering MMS supports up to 3.5mb at best, as you mentioned.

I sent a 30 second video just now. Originally 228mb, reduced to 685kb. Would be quite amazing if, despite only supporting up to 3.5mb maximum, that telcos would manage to support receiving a 228mb file, convert it instantly, and then send to the recipient.

Serious question that I never considered before… Why doesn’t Apple automagically create an iCloud link when sending media which very obviously will not translate well when sending via MMS — like it does for email?

Seems people are more interested in picking on Apple and iMessages than actually using the right solution that meets the job needs

It’s just crazy to me how literally every other messaging service doesn’t have this problem. Again, I use Apple Messages for 99% of my communications. But god forbid I have a texting relationship with an Android User — should I make a habit to add Android users on a different platform, in the event that I want to send them media that doesn’t look like trash?

By not having iMessage on Android, Apple is deliberately pushing its users into using other apps for uncommon scenarios. I see no reason how they that’s in anybody’s best interest.

I’m glad that RCS will resolve most of these issues — but Apple deserves negative credit for finally agreeing to implement it. If it weren’t for governmental pressure, they would have never allowed it.

 

[Abazigal]

Have you seen the market value of video games? bigger than Hollywood. there's still a lot of money to make...

But for some reason, the EU dont want to shake that tree.
Perhaps they're still salty after Nokia imploded from their market leading position?

My point is - value is meaningless if you can't capture any of it.

The nintendo switch sells hardware at slim margins with the expectation that they make it back via their 30% cut from game developers. Take that away, and there really is no reason for the switch to exist from Nintendo's POV.

 

[wbeasley]

My point is - value is meaningless if you can't capture any of it.

The nintendo switch sells hardware at slim margins with the expectation that they make it back via their 30% cut from game developers. Take that away, and there really is no reason for the switch to exist from Nintendo's POV.

Yes printers were the same. Sell the hardware at a loss to get a customer to buy your ink. The old razor business model.

But the vocal minority here want subsided hardware and FREE software as well.

And Spotify want their app to be available in a store where it's visible, promoted and available.
But dont want to pay for that. And certainly dont want to be charged if someone signs up through the app.

We've raised a self-centred, entitled generation it seems.

 

[wbeasley]

I’m not certain but I’m pretty sure you’re wrong about this. You’re saying my 55mb video was sent to T-Mobile via MMS, and they did an instant conversion to send to the recipient? Wonder how that works, considering MMS supports up to 3.5mb at best, as you mentioned.

I sent a 30 second video just now. Originally 228mb, reduced to 685kb. Would be quite amazing if, despite only supporting up to 3.5mb maximum, that telcos would manage to support receiving a 228mb file, convert it instantly, and then send to the recipient.

Serious question that I never considered before… Why doesn’t Apple automagically create an iCloud link when sending media which very obviously will not translate well when sending via MMS — like it does for email?



It’s just crazy to me how literally every other messaging service doesn’t have this problem. Again, I use Apple Messages for 99% of my communications. But god forbid I have a texting relationship with an Android User — should I make a habit to add Android users on a different platform, in the event that I want to send them media that doesn’t look like trash?

By not having iMessage on Android, Apple is deliberately pushing its users into using other apps for uncommon scenarios. I see no reason how they that’s in anybody’s best interest.

I’m glad that RCS will resolve most of these issues — but Apple deserves negative credit for finally agreeing to implement it. If it weren’t for governmental pressure, they would have never allowed it.

So Apple are anticompetitive - yet to send your files to an Android users the solution is to use a non Apple messaging service?

You cant have it both ways.

If Apple really wanted the whole pie they would make it work, wouldnt they?

Whether your video is compressed on you iPhone or uploaded and compressed, doesnt matter. MMS needs small files so it has to be compressed sometime.

YouTube and Facebook let you link files and then upload and compress. Not always quickly or without error. But it's not handled on phone.

You keep harping on about SMS is 99% of your use.
Well use the tool for what it was designed for: text.

Anything else, like MMS, was an extension and never really took off as carriers tried to charge more and users found apps that did it cheaper. Stop clinging to 2000 methods of doing things. We dont crunch MP3s to 56kbits anymore. We think noting of torrenting 50G files. Data is cheap, plentiful and available these days.

Noone needs to see your cat video in high res via SMS.
On a small screen (even a large phone) the MMS version gets your idea across.
The receiver isnt going to be broadcasting it far and wide

 

[mrat93]

So Apple are anticompetitive - yet to send your files to an Android users the solution is to use a non Apple messaging service?

You cant have it both ways.

If Apple really wanted the whole pie they would make it work, wouldnt they?

Whether your video is compressed on you iPhone or uploaded and compressed, doesnt matter. MMS needs small files so it has to be compressed sometime.

YouTube and Facebook let you link files and then upload and compress. Not always quickly or without error. But it's not handled on phone.

You keep harping on about SMS is 99% of your use.
Well use the tool for what it was designed for: text.

Anything else, like MMS, was an extension and never really took off as carriers tried to charge more and users found apps that did it cheaper. Stop clinging to 2000 methods of doing things. We dont crunch MP3s to 56kbits anymore. We think noting of torrenting 50G files. Data is cheap, plentiful and available these days.

Noone needs to see your cat video in high res via SMS.
On a small screen (even a large phone) the MMS version gets your idea across.
The receiver isnt going to be broadcasting it far and wide

yeah im done lol. have a good weekend.

 

[wbeasley]

yeah im done lol. have a good weekend.

done? geez...