This thread is a strange place, indeed.
And more fun and interesting than most other places on MR!
In fact...most other places in general...
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Espresso Enthusiasts
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This thread is a strange place, indeed.
And more fun and interesting than most other places on MR!
In fact...most other places in general...
I think that this is an expression used by some of my um, acquaintances? Colleagues? Friends? And indeed, myself ..
How are you today, I ask most solicitously?
I'll confess that Thursday night, (nay, Friday morning), ahem, I greeted the sunrise (to my own surprise), still in our small bar. Somehow, a lengthy conversation (well lubricated by Italian wine) went on a little longer than expected ..
This thread is a strange place, indeed.
And more fun and interesting than most other places on MR!
In fact...most other places in general...
A strange little place that I can't help but pop into even when extraordinarily busy.
Quite nice, indeed.
Okay, following Kurwenal's instructions yesterday, I ground a lot more coffee this time and piled it high and deep in the PF, like a pyramid. Then I used the n-e-s-w finger sweep method and ended up with 17 grams, tamped firmly in the PF.
The extraction time was much better at 20 seconds, up from much less before. I achieved better crema and it tastes pretty good too - not too bitter.
There was still a soupy puck afterwards.
The extraction time was much better at 20 seconds, up from much less before. I achieved better crema and it tastes pretty good too - not too bitter.
There was still a soupy puck afterwards.
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So, what should I use to wipe the drool off of my keyboard?
A moist towelette, of course!
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The heck with the soupy puck...you have a great espresso.
If your extraction time was below 20 seconds (you hadn't mentioned that!
), then going for a finer grind and/or increasing dose surely made a difference. Since you're aiming for about 21-28 second extraction time, the general rule is going finer on the grind.Anyway...nice looking shot...should never be bitter.
The heck with the soupy puck...you have a great espresso.
If your extraction time was below 20 seconds (you hadn't mentioned that!
Anyway...nice looking shot...should never be bitter.
Yeah, sorry, I was getting extractions coming too quickly before.
I left the grind setting the same as all my recent previous pulls with this batch of Liquid Amber, but only increased the dosage, changed my technique and maybe pressed a little harder on the tamping.
A suggestion...hold your tamp pressure as constant as possible, and make adjustments in extraction time with the grind...finer for more time, coarser for less time.
I did a bunch of reading on tamping, and after a lot of ideas, what made the most sense to me was...don't worry about the pressure poundage, just find a firm (not straining) comfortable tamp pressure that can be repeated consistently...the key is consistency. Then make extraction time adjustments with the grind.
Ok.
This pull tonight was probably one of my all time better tasting pulls, with very little bitterness. <-- That has always been the bane of my shot pulling skills, or lack thereof.
Great stuff, Mate.
Congrats on the fine shot!
I still have my doubts as to how it should really taste.
Back in the day, before even my arrival on these forums, the demi's used to have demi meet ups where they'd all gather in a central location in some city or state.
Us espresso denizens must plan one of these meet ups someday where we can also make espresso so I could get a taste for how it's really done - and to meet everyone and enjoy great company too, of course!
After SS gets back home, I think the most reasonable meeting place would definitely be Boston.
3,000 miles for Kurwenal from home...3,000 miles for SS from home...21 miles for me from home.
Works perfectly!
After SS gets back home, I think the most reasonable meeting place would definitely be Boston.
3,000 miles for Kurwenal from home...3,000 miles for SS from home...21 miles for me from home.
Works perfectly!
Wow, that's great you're willing to schlep the HG-1 and the Londonium 21 miles into the city to make us all espresso!
Aaahh...I had going to a good coffee house in mind.
Anyway...although I would have been more than happy to do just that...won't fit in my car!
Such a shame...
Aaahh...I had going to a good coffee house in mind.
Anyway...although I would have been more than happy to do just that...won't fit in my car!
Such a shame...
So... Your abode isn't a good place for... Coffee?
After SS gets back home, I think the most reasonable meeting place would definitely be Boston.
3,000 miles for Kurwenal from home...3,000 miles for SS from home...21 miles for me from home.
Works perfectly!
And you forget the most important member of the crew? Harrumph!!
And you forget the most important member of the crew? Harrumph!!
A ghastly oversight to be sure!
It looks wonderful though, and I'm delighted to learn that it tasted as good as it looked...
After SS gets back home, I think the most reasonable meeting place would definitely be Boston.
3,000 miles for Kurwenal from home...3,000 miles for SS from home...21 miles for me from home.
Works perfectly!
At the moment, I am well over 3,000 miles away from any and all of you, as measured by distance, time, and space .
Now that would be a fine sight two such objets d'art to be admired .
Aaahh...I had going to a good coffee house in mind.
Anyway...although I would have been more than happy to do just that...won't fit in my car!
Such a shame...
Hm. I was under the impression that this was a nice sports coupe from BMW? German cars are very cleverly designed to hold lots and lots of things .not least coffee machines and grinders...
Chateau Shrink sounds perfect .
And you forget the most important member of the crew? Harrumph!!
A most glaring oversight, to be sure...
Thanks. Though I still need much more practice to make it better and more consistent.
I am on very slow Internet for about a week, so apologies for not quoting your great posts. I tried that but it timed out. Here goes:
Shrink: here's why I suggested increasing the dosing. You said you sometimes have a "slightly wet" puck (or words to that effect) and reducing the amount of coffee fixes that. But SG said something different, at least as I understood it. He said the top of the puck was "soupy," he said the espresso was bitter (ie, over-extracted) and he said the crema was terrible (which can be a symptom of many things including over-extraction). Plus, I assume your grind is right; I do not assume that for SG given what he described. (No offense, SG......)
So, my initial belief was too much room in the head, which allows too much water into the PF, and in that machine the water at the end has nowhere to go, so it just sits on top of the puck. The key was SG said only the top of the puck was soupy, which can be caused by under-dosing. This would also cause the symptoms of over-extraction SG described. So, adding an extra gram was intended to allow less water in the PF. (Suggesting a slightly coarser grind also would have been a good diagnostic step.)
But, a few posts later, I started to think the issue was tamping, and working together SG and I worked out some advice on how to better level the coffee before tamping. I think that was 80% of the issue, but I still think there is a grind issue lurking here, and maybe a head space issue too (wrong basket maybe?).
SG: glad to hear your shots improved. Great work. I agree with Shrink's post from earlier today; you are close, now, so hold everything constant except the grind. One of the hardest things to learn is how much to adjust your grinder when the taste is a bit off. Pulling 5 or 10 shots in a row, over an hour, making very find adjustments up and down in fineness, is a great way to practice this skill. And, just when you figure it out, the coffee will change or it will start to rain and then everything will change, but you will still be ahead of the game.
The fact that you have crema (even if you don't like it very much, yet) is a very good sign. That means you are in the ballpark on everything, and that you are already better at pulling shots than 99% of the "baristas" who work for you know who......
That said, there are two other diagnostic steps you might want to try some day when you are bored. First, measure your water debit. This is the amount of water that comes through the group head when there is no PF in place. I will have to look up the specs for your machine, but it should be around 50ml in ten seconds. Second, grind and tamp a nice shot, but before you put the PF into the group head, put a nickel right in the middle of your puck. Then put the PF into the group head and wait about 10 or 15 seconds. Remove the PF. Do you see in the coffee an outline of the nickel? Can you see impressed into your coffee the head of the dude on the nickel, or just the outline of the nickel?
All: I would love a get together. Europe is an option.....Mrs. Kurwenal and I will head that way in October for a semi-annual opera trip. If not, Scepticalscribe, do you ever head to the US? I think I recall you posting somewhere that you do not.
And I agree with you all that this thread (well actually you posters) is a wonderful oasis. We will have to chat more about Wagner and Italy and that other stuff late. SS, thank you for your kind comments.
MH: Hi!
Everyone else: hi!
Shrink: here's why I suggested increasing the dosing. You said you sometimes have a "slightly wet" puck (or words to that effect) and reducing the amount of coffee fixes that. But SG said something different, at least as I understood it. He said the top of the puck was "soupy," he said the espresso was bitter (ie, over-extracted) and he said the crema was terrible (which can be a symptom of many things including over-extraction). Plus, I assume your grind is right; I do not assume that for SG given what he described. (No offense, SG......)
So, my initial belief was too much room in the head, which allows too much water into the PF, and in that machine the water at the end has nowhere to go, so it just sits on top of the puck. The key was SG said only the top of the puck was soupy, which can be caused by under-dosing. This would also cause the symptoms of over-extraction SG described. So, adding an extra gram was intended to allow less water in the PF. (Suggesting a slightly coarser grind also would have been a good diagnostic step.)
But, a few posts later, I started to think the issue was tamping, and working together SG and I worked out some advice on how to better level the coffee before tamping. I think that was 80% of the issue, but I still think there is a grind issue lurking here, and maybe a head space issue too (wrong basket maybe?).
SG: glad to hear your shots improved. Great work. I agree with Shrink's post from earlier today; you are close, now, so hold everything constant except the grind. One of the hardest things to learn is how much to adjust your grinder when the taste is a bit off. Pulling 5 or 10 shots in a row, over an hour, making very find adjustments up and down in fineness, is a great way to practice this skill. And, just when you figure it out, the coffee will change or it will start to rain and then everything will change, but you will still be ahead of the game.
The fact that you have crema (even if you don't like it very much, yet) is a very good sign. That means you are in the ballpark on everything, and that you are already better at pulling shots than 99% of the "baristas" who work for you know who......
That said, there are two other diagnostic steps you might want to try some day when you are bored. First, measure your water debit. This is the amount of water that comes through the group head when there is no PF in place. I will have to look up the specs for your machine, but it should be around 50ml in ten seconds. Second, grind and tamp a nice shot, but before you put the PF into the group head, put a nickel right in the middle of your puck. Then put the PF into the group head and wait about 10 or 15 seconds. Remove the PF. Do you see in the coffee an outline of the nickel? Can you see impressed into your coffee the head of the dude on the nickel, or just the outline of the nickel?
All: I would love a get together. Europe is an option.....Mrs. Kurwenal and I will head that way in October for a semi-annual opera trip. If not, Scepticalscribe, do you ever head to the US? I think I recall you posting somewhere that you do not.
And I agree with you all that this thread (well actually you posters) is a wonderful oasis. We will have to chat more about Wagner and Italy and that other stuff late. SS, thank you for your kind comments.
MH: Hi!
Everyone else: hi!
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Thanks for the extra layer of tips and advice there, Mr. Kurwenal! I'll work on those a bit later today perhaps.
With regard to the dosage of coffee, head space and water on top of the puck, for diagnostic purposes of course, I may take a few extra photos of what I am doing. This will allow you all to better critique what's going on and help me out.
I pulled another double just a short while ago this morning, and it turned out about like the one I did last night. All points remained the same, except this time I tamped it much stronger and it added about 5 seconds to the extraction, making it a 25 second pull. The taste was acceptable and not too bitter.
My gear:
I even put a spreadsheet together to track my data points (see attached).
-----
A trip to Europe would be interesting and welcomed. There are some things in my immediate future that may or may not aid me in making it across the pond - details forthcoming at some point, hopefully sooner, rather than later. I've been to the Far East and Down Under, but never to Europe.
I did watch the first YouTube video of Wagner that you posted the other day and I enjoyed it. I still have to watch the others yet.
With regard to the dosage of coffee, head space and water on top of the puck, for diagnostic purposes of course, I may take a few extra photos of what I am doing. This will allow you all to better critique what's going on and help me out.
I pulled another double just a short while ago this morning, and it turned out about like the one I did last night. All points remained the same, except this time I tamped it much stronger and it added about 5 seconds to the extraction, making it a 25 second pull. The taste was acceptable and not too bitter.
My gear:
- Gaggia Baby Class
- Rancilio Rocky (doserless)
- Cafelat Tamper: Royal 58.35 mm VST - Strada
- VST Precision Insert Baskets - 18 gram Ridgeless
I even put a spreadsheet together to track my data points (see attached).
-----
A trip to Europe would be interesting and welcomed. There are some things in my immediate future that may or may not aid me in making it across the pond - details forthcoming at some point, hopefully sooner, rather than later. I've been to the Far East and Down Under, but never to Europe.
I did watch the first YouTube video of Wagner that you posted the other day and I enjoyed it. I still have to watch the others yet.
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And you forget the most important member of the crew? Harrumph!!
I am a swine!
A low life!
Dirt!
I beg, on my knees, forgiveness for my horrible omission.
Of course we would
Re the question 'do I ever head to the US'? - actually, I have lived in and worked in some of the most fascinating places on the planet, yet have never, ever, so much as set foot in the US.
Someday, I'll remedy that deficiency there is much to see there and explore
Re opera, well, that is sublime ..
Someday, I am sure, you will manage to visit Europe.
However, for now, our meetings will remain virtual - but our coffee discussions learned and leavened with humour - and much useful and interesting information.
Alright friends, I'm nearing the end of my favorite batch of beans from Tim Hortons and am seeking recommendations for something different to try.
The primary use will be in French Press and I prefer a blended coffee over a single-origin and really enjoy a sweet and smooth smelling and tasting coffee.
Here is what I've tried in the past, to avoid getting recommendations on them again.
So, if anyone has something they think I'd enjoy, please let me know.
The primary use will be in French Press and I prefer a blended coffee over a single-origin and really enjoy a sweet and smooth smelling and tasting coffee.
Here is what I've tried in the past, to avoid getting recommendations on them again.
- Blue Bottle - Ethiopia Yirgacheffe Konga Sedie Natural
- Blue Bottle - Three Africans
- Silver Bridge Coffee Company - Silver Bridge Blend
So, if anyone has something they think I'd enjoy, please let me know.