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mobilehaathi

macrumors G3
Aug 19, 2008
9,368
6,353
The Anthropocene
Nice picture chart, thanks, saved.:) I do find some problems with the spanish ones like for example a cortado is made w/ warm milk not foamed milk; my guess the graphic is the americanized ways of espressos. Funny fact living w people all around me that adore cortados and cortaditos is that some places will inverse the ratio of milk and coffee on the cut when asking for one.

I went full wikipedia on cafe au lait and it said espresso as the base (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Café_au_lait). In the chart I don't see anything close to a 1:1 for espresso with heated milk. BTW I'm not trying to be argumental or anything :) Just want to up my knowledge on coffee. A nice tasting drink no matter the name is the best thing for sure! :cool:

You know, every coffee shop I've been to makes a cortado/cortadito differently. :confused:
 

Carlanga

macrumors 604
Nov 5, 2009
7,132
1,409
You know, every coffee shop I've been to makes a cortado/cortadito differently. :confused:

I bet, since I'm in PR you can imagine cortados and cortaditos are a staple coffee drink. But it is always different in each place, haven't seen it w foamed milk though.
 

Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,929
1,727
New England, USA
Here is a definition of antoccino that I found..

What I found interesting is that the word "antoccino" has no Italian root or meaning.

Antoccino[edit]
An Antoccino is a single shot of espresso with steamed milk in a 1:1 ratio, served in an espresso cup. Despite the name, it has no link to Italy, nor any meaning in Italian.
 

Carlanga

macrumors 604
Nov 5, 2009
7,132
1,409
Here is a definition of antoccino that I found..
What I found interesting is that the word "antoccino" has no Italian root or meaning.

Interesting, that is what wikipedia is saying, but other sites say:
The name of the drink “Antoccino” means “priceless” in Italian and its a 1:1 mix of coffee and milk with no froth.
:rolleyes: I did a google translate search and of course neither antoccino exists and priceless doesn't translate to anything close to that. I guess in spanish antoccino sounds kinda like an italian fake way of saying antojo which means craving, so if one considers the size of the drink it kinda makes fake sense due to the quantity of the drink?

Shrink what would you call an espresso with just steamed milk 1:1 ?

I spoke today w my grandma 87 and she said Cafe Au Lait, found this art graph that is more expanded and has "sources", people of reddit complain on fact checking many of them though, but interesting and big it is (http://www.reddit.com/r/Coffee/comments/22ajiz/31_ways_to_drink_coffee/): according to it an antocinno and cafe au lait are the same...
 

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mobilehaathi

macrumors G3
Aug 19, 2008
9,368
6,353
The Anthropocene
Interesting, that is what wikipedia is saying, but other sites say:
:rolleyes: I did a google translate search and of course neither antoccino exists and priceless doesn't translate to anything close to that. I guess in spanish antoccino sounds kinda like an italian fake way of saying antojo which means craving, so if one considers the size of the drink it kinda makes fake sense due to the quantity of the drink?

Shrink what would you call an espresso with just steamed milk 1:1 ?
I spoke today w my grandma 87 and she said Cafe Au Lait, found this art graph that is more expanded and has "sources", people of reddit complain on fact checking many of them though, but interesting and big it is (http://www.reddit.com/r/Coffee/comments/22ajiz/31_ways_to_drink_coffee/): according to it an antocinno and cafe au lait are the same...

Cool, I love all these graphics. It doesn't surprise me that there is some variation in what we each expect from a particular named drink. I see that in this graphic a café au lait is written with espresso.

Speaking of which, I think it's time to make a cup...
 

Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,929
1,727
New England, USA
Interesting, that is what wikipedia is saying, but other sites say:
:rolleyes: I did a google translate search and of course neither antoccino exists and priceless doesn't translate to anything close to that. I guess in spanish antoccino sounds kinda like an italian fake way of saying antojo which means craving, so if one considers the size of the drink it kinda makes fake sense due to the quantity of the drink?

Shrink what would you call an espresso with just steamed milk 1:1 ?

I spoke today w my grandma 87 and she said Cafe Au Lait, found this art graph that is more expanded and has "sources", people of reddit complain on fact checking many of them though, but interesting and big it is (http://www.reddit.com/r/Coffee/comments/22ajiz/31_ways_to_drink_coffee/): according to it an antocinno and cafe au lait are the same...

I'd call it somebody else's espresso!

Sorry, couldn't resist. :eek:

I really don't know the names of the various coffee and espresso plus milk drinks, aside from just a few. The other low denizens of this insane thread know much more about that than I. I suppose I should learn all the different drinks, but since I only drink straight espresso, I haven't taken the time to do it.

Please understand that my weird tastes are not a negative comment on the choices of others.







Go ahead...pollute your espresso!
 
Last edited:

S.B.G

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 8, 2010
26,679
10,464
Detroit
Shrink what would you call an espresso with just steamed milk 1:1?

I would call it a Cappuccino, minus the milk foam on top.

2014-08-21 10.50.22.png

Shrink isn't the right guy to ask questions about espresso-based drinks. All he is good for (!) is pure, unadulterated, straight espresso with nothing added to it.
 

mobilehaathi

macrumors G3
Aug 19, 2008
9,368
6,353
The Anthropocene
I'd call it somebody else's espresso!

Sorry, couldn't resist. :eek:

I really don't know the names of the various coffee and espresso plus milk drinks, aside from just a few. The other low denizens of this insane sight know much more about that than I. I suppose I should learn all the different drinks, but since I only drink straight espresso, I haven't taken the time to do it.

Please understand that my weird tastes are not a negative comment on the choices of others.

Go ahead...pollute your espresso!

Low? Low!? :eek:
 

Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,929
1,727
New England, USA

Carlanga

macrumors 604
Nov 5, 2009
7,132
1,409
I'd call it somebody else's espresso!
snip
haha no worries, I see you have reached the purist stage of your favorite drink.

I would call it a Cappuccino, minus the milk foam on top. snip
Shrink isn't the right guy to ask questions about espresso-based drinks. All he is good for (!) is pure, unadulterated, straight espresso with nothing added to it.
lol,
Thanks for your input! I guess I could ask for a cappuccino no foam, easy enough for a 'barista' to universally understand.
 

Kurwenal

macrumors 6502a
Jun 27, 2012
899
347
It doesn't surprise me that there is some variation in what we each expect from a particular named drink.

Agreed. Go into ten good coffee shops and order a "machiatto" without specifying more and you will get ten different drinks. Hell, order that drink from different baristas at the same shop and you will get different drinks.

It's even worse with a ristretto. I (personally) believe the proper way to make a ristretto is to adjust only the grinder, nothing else. But if you go into some very good coffee shops, you will find them adjusting the timing, dosing and various other things.

Drinker beware. Know what you like and ask for it. Or live dangerously and drink what you get.

----------

umm interesting, I always thought cafe au leit was for either dark coffee (@ home) or espresso (@ cafes) w a 1:1 ratio of heated or steamed milk.

Heated and steamed milk are very different things. Steamed is a subset of heated. You can heat milk in a microwave and various other ways. But, to produce steamed milk, as that term is used in connection with white coffees, you must use a steam wand.

And, not to be confused with frothed milk, which takes the steaming process and adds very tiny air bubbles to which the milk proteins adhere, and which is* the key difference between a latte and a cappuccino.

*perhaps I should instead say "should be" as many, perhaps most, coffee shops get this wrong.
 

S.B.G

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 8, 2010
26,679
10,464
Detroit
And, not to be confused with frothed milk, which takes the steaming process and adds very tiny air bubbles to which the milk proteins adhere, and which is* the key difference between a latte and a cappuccino.

*perhaps I should instead say "should be" as many, perhaps most, coffee shops get this wrong.

Yep, many do get it wrong. Even I did for a while when I first got into this. but now I know and aim to get what exactly I want.
 

Kurwenal

macrumors 6502a
Jun 27, 2012
899
347
Yep, many do get it wrong. Even I did for a while when I first got into this. but now I know and aim to get what exactly I want.

And, I have to be honest. Well, I don't have to be, but I will be.

When a coffee shop gets this, or any other basic element of proper espresso wrong, I have a very difficult time keeping my inner extreme coffee snob bottled up. Yes, I pay lip service to Shrink's Law (hell, I think I first coined the phrase). But, I have to say: I do not really believe it, despite praying every night that the great universal coffee god will grant me the patience to really believe that someone is entitled to drink crap.

When I walk into a new coffee shop, or see a new barista in a shop I frequent, I have a couple of tests I use. One is to order a ristretto. If the barista touches anything other than the grind dial, I very likely will turn and walk out. Another good test is to order a macchiato, as every so-called barista claims to know how to make the drink but few do. Pour the coffee into the cup first? You just blew it. You mark the coffee by pouring it through the foam. In Italy, 98% of shops get it right. In the US, 98% of shops get it wrong.

So, for some reason I feel like baring my soul today. Yes, if someone likes what he or she drinks, they are entitled to do so. But I am also entitled to believe that what they are drinking is complete crap; and, on occasion, I will tell them that. Not, hopefully, in a jerky way, but in an educating, helpful way. As with my comments in the other thread recently that I just wish more people had the scarce but wonderful opportunity to taste a fresh and properly made coffee.

Coffee should be made properly. Period. I will forgive some their sins in this regard, but not coffee shops, and especially not oh-I-am-so-cool baristas. Hey, hemp boy, you want to grow out your beard, wear clothing only with labels that no longer exist, and look at me askance through your fake thick black rimmed glasses when I ask how many grams you plan to use to make my ristretto. Fine. But if you don't know how to make it properly, then you deserve to be mocked, and I may do so, even after my new found lease on life and my promise to be kind to all.

I believe this is only the second* time on this thread that I have let my true coffee *******-ness show. I apologize. It is not my intent to offend.....

* the first time, I believe, was this rant:

:)

Pardon me while I let my inner extreme coffee snob out for a brief moment. I do not care what anyone other than myself drinks. I really don't. You want to drink crap, fine, drink crap.

But, you know, it is nearly impossible to get a decent ristretto in this country, even at uber-cool "oh we roast our own and we are so cool" roastery shops that so arrogantly display ristretto on the menu. Look, you don't want to offer a ristretto, fine, no one says you have to. But, if you are going to put on the cloak of moral superiority over your beans, where anyone who is over 40 or who has a job or who wears anything synthetic (or, gasp, all of the above) is made to feel uncomfortable and looked down on while you practice your "craft" with smokey bean death looks at anyone you deem unworthy, then by god you had better offer a *real* ristretto. A ristretto is not a "short espresso." Yes, to make it, you actually have to get your hands a little dirty and change the grind. Yes, you know that grind ring that the one person who really knows coffee at your shop told you never to touch? Yes, to make a ristretto, you really do have to adjust for a finer grind than the 9 million espressos you make every day and dump into a big gulp size cup of milk, entirely obliterating even the slightest hope of tasting anything real about the coffee. I will put up with outlandish prices, your horrible taste in music, the people who never seem to leave, the other people who seem to think the place is a rent-by-the-day office suite, the oppressively boring pictures of some coffee shop in Italy that we all know you ordered off a website, the stupid, stupid, mismatched furniture that looks like you collected one chair, but only one chair, from every going-out-of-business sale in the county, the general decline of any even semi-intellectual discourse in your shop, the people who think the Virgil quote someone so wittingly stenciled above the sink in the bathroom is from someone who plays for the Boston Celtics, and even the hipsters who think being a hipster is a career.

I will put up with all of it. But, by god, if you are going to offer and charge me money for something called a ristretto, and you are too lazy to change the f'in grind, then you suck. You just suck. That's all there is to it. You are not morally superior. You are not cool. You are not going to realize your dream to win the local latte art competition (gag). Instead, you just suck. You are either too uneducated or too lazy to adjust the grind (or the machine's pressure) just the tinniest little bit to produce what you have promised me you will produce, but which has never actually existed in your shop, with all of its indie-rock and oh-so-cool little hemp baskets in which you store the artificial sweetener (really?) that most of your customers dump into their "espresso." Do you know what just stopping the pull after 15 seconds produces? Not a ristretto. No, it produces a half-done espresso, with completely screwed up ratios and crema. Let me explain it in terms you might understand: when someone asks you (gasp) for a "skinny latte," do you use whole milk and just use 1/2 as much? No. Why? Because one aint the other. Do you realize there are entire cities on this planet where I can walk into any of 500 shops and actually order and, shock, receive a ristretto? Well, you aint one of them.

To wit, the cause of my rant this morning:

i-8ptrHNw-M.jpg


OK, I feel better.

I will now put my inner extreme coffee snob back into its box and go about my day.

Ah.....coffee.....you will end up ruining me.

:):):):):)

----------

Today's afternoon coffee & cookie work session begins:

Image

Looks good.

Don't get crumbs on your MBA.....then you might have to buy a new one!
 

S.B.G

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 8, 2010
26,679
10,464
Detroit
And, I have to be honest. Well, I don't have to be, but I will be.

Well said! No offense was taken by me, since I happen to agree with you. When we want something, and very specific, and go to a place that is supposed to be able to make the specific thing, they should be able to do it right.
 

BenTrovato

macrumors 68040
Jun 29, 2012
3,049
2,223
Canada
Another good test is to order a macchiato, as every so-called barista claims to know how to make the drink but few do. Pour the coffee into the cup first? You just blew it. You mark the coffee by pouring it through the foam. In Italy, 98% of shops get it right. In the US, 98% of shops get it wrong.

Looks good.

Don't get crumbs on your MBA.....then you might have to buy a new one!

Ah yes... they all do it wrong around here. It's such a pleasure and a treat to have a coffee in Italy. No matter where you go, they do all the little things with care and detail - fast! From start to finish including giving you the mineral water on the side is under a minute and then they are back to socializing. Here it takes 5 minutes to get a coffee. It's been a few years now that unless I know for certain they are going to make it properly, I'll likely just order a bold roast, touch of cream and take a few sips.

And I definitely will not be getting crumbs on the MBA! :D
 

Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,929
1,727
New England, USA
And, I have to be honest. Well, I don't have to be, but I will be.



So, for some reason I feel like baring my soul today. Yes, if someone likes what he or she drinks, they are entitled to do so. But I am also entitled to believe that what they are drinking is complete crap; and, on occasion, I will tell them that. Not, hopefully, in a jerky way, but in an educating, helpful way. As with my comments in the other thread recently that I just wish more people had the scarce but wonderful opportunity to taste a fresh and properly made coffee.



Ah.....coffee.....you will end up ruining me.

I have no general disagreement with your position. While the eponymous law state what it does, I don't abjure the critical capacity to judge the drink as crap...I just don't post it! If folks want to sacrifice quality for convenience...that's their loss. And it is my take that many don't know that they are making that sacrifice since they likely have never tasted really good cup of coffee.

I'm not back pedaling on the if-you-like-it-it's-fine position...but that doesn't mean that I would like it. And if asked...I would, and have, gone on interminably about how to make a better cup.

As far as insisting that what I order in a shop be made correctly...to me, that's a bit like ordering wine...if it's turned or corked, send it back.

Unless it's SB...then you deserve what you get!
 

Kurwenal

macrumors 6502a
Jun 27, 2012
899
347
I have no general disagreement with your position. While the eponymous law state what it does, I don't abjure the critical capacity to judge the drink as crap...I just don't post it! If folks want to sacrifice quality for convenience...that's their loss. And it is my take that many don't know that they are making that sacrifice since they likely have never tasted really good cup of coffee.

I'm not back pedaling on the if-you-like-it-it's-fine position...but that doesn't mean that I would like it. And if asked...I would, and have, gone on interminably about how to make a better cup.

As far as insisting that what I order in a shop be made correctly...to me, that's a bit like ordering wine...if it's turned or corked, send it back.

Unless it's SB...then you deserve what you get!

I had expected your to respond and say I would need two sessions this week.
 
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