Espresso Enthusiasts

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

There is nothing wrong with any coffee bean. It's where it is grown that makes the difference. Australian soils are so old (> 15,000,000 years) and tired that the Arabica grown here tastes bland and lifeless. OTOH, the young (< 20,000 years old) PNG soils, which is fed by volcanic ash that have had the sulphur leached out by tropical rain, grow some truly marvellous coffee.

PNG Robusta coffee is currently exporting green beans at $10 a kilo, which matches the price that economy roasted Arabica sells retail in Australian shops.

 

[Madhatter32]

There is nothing wrong with any coffee bean. It's where it is grown that makes the difference. Australian soils are so old (> 15,000,000 years) and tired that the Arabica grown here tastes bland and lifeless. OTOH, the young (< 20,000 years old) PNG soils, which is fed by volcanic ash that have had the sulphur leached out by tropical rain, grow some truly marvellous coffee.

PNG Robusta coffee is currently exporting green beans at $10 a kilo, which matches the price that economy roasted Arabica sells retail in Australian shops.

Indeed, nothing wrong ... just preferences we are talking about. But I never had a coffee made from Robusta beans that I thought was good. Those coffees tended to be bitter. Perhaps they were poor beans -- I do not know. My assumption has always been that it needs to be blended to be tolerable. I could be wrong. Seems like the tides are turning though ... either people gravitating to a different flavor profile or possibly (my conjecture) inflation is making Arabica a lot less desirable relative to the cheaper alternative.

 

[Macky-Mac]

I really thought this debate had been settled decades ago. I encourage everyone here to read this piece from the Wall Street Journal's Thursday, February 9, 2023 edition concerning a resurgent market interest in the benefits of Robusta coffee beans, mostly grown in low elevation Asian countries, versus the tried and true Arabica bean available at specialty shops everywhere. It is the Arabica bean which we all know and love. As the article posits, I suppose I am firmly part of the old guard coffee purist crowwd that will have none of this nonsense but, alas, I will concede that perhaps the Robusta bean does work in certain applications -- just not any I think I would enjoy.

The Underdog Coffee Bean That Java Snobs Hate Is Finally Getting Some Respect

Coffee geeks are trying to elevate scorned Robusta from the instant-coffee market to premium status.

www.wsj.com

ack!!! it's behind a pay wall!!!

One thing I remember reading about robusta beans is that they're a frequent ingredient in blends, although it's something that isn't often mentioned in marketing the blend. I suspect that means that most of us have had robusta in our coffee cup at various good restaurants without even realizing it

 

[Scepticalscribe]

ack!!! it's behind a pay wall!!!

One thing I remember reading about robusta beans is that they're a frequent ingredient in blends, although it's something that isn't often mentioned in marketing the blend. I suspect that means that most of us have had robusta in our coffee cup at various good restaurants without even realizing it

Especially in espresso, (served in cafés), as - from what I have read - robusta is better at generating stuff such as the "crema" than are Arabica beans.

 

[Madhatter32]

ack!!! it's behind a pay wall!!!

One thing I remember reading about robusta beans is that they're a frequent ingredient in blends, although it's something that isn't often mentioned in marketing the blend. I suspect that means that most of us have had robusta in our coffee cup at various good restaurants without even realizing it

Sorry! I did not realize there was a paywall! I hate it when news companies paywall articles -- especially on an old article that is not exactly newsworthy. Weird thing is, I read the article in the actual paper form. I then looked it up by typing in the title -- which gave me full internet access. So then I thought I could just share it with others. Strange.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Sorry! I did not realize there was a paywall! I hate it when news companies paywall articles -- especially on an old article that is not exactly newsworthy. Weird thing is, I read the article in the actual paper form. I then looked it up by typing in the title -- which gave me full internet access. So then I thought I could just share it with others. Strange.

Actually, I didn't even look at it, as I feared (and recalled from experience) that it would probably be behind a paywall.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

There is nothing wrong with any coffee bean. It's where it is grown that makes the difference. Australian soils are so old (> 15,000,000 years) and tired that the Arabica grown here tastes bland and lifeless. OTOH, the young (< 20,000 years old) PNG soils, which is fed by volcanic ash that have had the sulphur leached out by tropical rain, grow some truly marvellous coffee.

PNG Robusta coffee is currently exporting green beans at $10 a kilo, which matches the price that economy roasted Arabica sells retail in Australian shops.

This is an absolutely fascinating post, and I must admit that I hadn't known any of this information - such as the fact that the soil is so old in Australia.

I love learning new stuff.

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

This is an absolutely fascinating post, and I must admit that I hadn't known any of this information - such as the fact that the soil is so old in Australia.

I love learning new stuff.

That's why Australia imported much of Nauru's land mass to use as phosphate fertiliser, leaving behind

this...

The link is to one of many articles about Nauru and the phosphate mining industry. Just look up "Nauru Phosphate mining" or "Nauru fertiliser"

 

[Scepticalscribe]

That's why Australia imported much of Nauru's land mass to use as phosphate fertiliser, leaving behind

this...

The link is to one of many articles about Nauru and the phosphate mining industry. Just look up "Nauru Phosphate mining" or "Nauru fertiliser"

Ah.

I had known that Nauru produced and mined phosphate, and - for that matter, that it was exported, hollowing out the island (and, at one stage, several decades ago, in the 1970s, giving Nauru the highest - proportionally - per capita income in the world) but not that Australia had imported much (if not, most) of it.

Fascinating.

 

[decafjava]

Very sad story about Nauru, normally one would be happy that the natives of the island would have gotten control and benefited from their resources but the price with destroying the island and the fact that the people gave up fishing and growing fruit and vegetables for imported food - and suffering from high rates of obesity and diabetes - and to top it off the money vanished due to bad investments well...just sad.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Placed an order for some coffee today.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

My order will be - firstly - beans from El Salvador (naturally processed, and a coffee I have had before and loved); actually, of the Central and South American coffees, I find that I like those from El Salvador most of all.

The second bag of coffee will be from Thailand, and is honey-processed, black honey processed, to be precise (which is the most demanding and difficult method of the honey processed methods, as it is both time consuming and labour intensive).

 

[adrianlondon]

The second bag of coffee will be from Thailand, and is honey-processed, black honey processed, to be precise (which is the most demanding and difficult method of the honey processed methods, as it is both time consuming and labour intensive).

oooo a few seconds ago I'd never heard of this and now I want some. If your post was on TV I would have skipped it as an advert

 

[Scepticalscribe]

oooo a few seconds ago I'd never heard of this and now I want some. If your post was on TV I would have skipped it as an advert

Actually, I find it intersting to learn about this sort of stuff.

Well, until a very few years ago, I knew of naturally processed coffees, and coffees that were processed using the "washed" method, and that, in general, I preferred the "natural" method.

However, the "honey processed" method is named for the stickiness of the remaining mucilage rather than its sweetness, although the mucialge does confer a sense of sweetness.

The amount of mucilage that remains on the coffee cherry depends on the specific version of honey processing that is used - thus, "white" honey processing removes virtually all of it, and is closest to a "washed" coffee profile, "yellow honey" processing removes around 50% of the mucilage, "red honey" processing leaves around 80% - and takes longer and is more labour intensive, while the "black" honey processing method leaves almost all of the mucilage on the coffee cherry, takes yet longer, - and is both labour intensive and requires a lot of time and attention, as the cherries/beans need to be raked frequently, and kept in a shady spot, out of direct sunshine.

This is a rarest method, - and is possibly the method closest, in terms of flavour profile, to a "naturally processed" coffee - and, whenever I see it, I will try to order some.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

My coffee has been delivered.

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

My coffee, a blend of East Timor and PNG Highlands Organic (I suspect from Bena Bena) has been consumed.

 

[Macky-Mac]

My order will be - firstly - beans from El Salvador (naturally processed, and a coffee I have had before and loved); actually, of the Central and South American coffees, I find that I like those from El salvador most of all.

The second bag of coffee will be from Thailand, and is honey-processed, black honey processed, to be precise (which is the most demanding and difficult method of the honey processed methods, as it is both time consuming and labour intensive).

An interesting couple of coffees!

I'll agree with you about El Salvadorian coffee being excellent. Central America produces some really good coffees; I'm currently nearing the bottom of a bag of black honey processed Costa Rican coffee, which I'm enjoying quite a bit.

I remember that you had some black honey coffee from Thailand......last year? Is your new order from the same producer?

 

[Scepticalscribe]

An interesting couple of coffees!

I'll agree with you about El Salvadorian coffee being excellent. Central America produces some really good coffees; I'm currently nearing the bottom of a bag of black honey processed Costa Rican coffee, which I'm enjoying quite a bit.

Of the Central & South American coffees, I realise that I really like those from El Salvador, above all of the others.

However, from what I have read, Costa Rica seems to pioneered the use of the "honey" method of processing coffees.

I remember that you had some black honey coffee from Thailand......last year? Is your new order from the same producer?

Yes, it is.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Enjoyng the last of my coffee from Bosnia, with organic hot milk.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Thoroughly enjoyed a mug of black honey processed Thai coffee (with organic hot milk) today; actually, it was delicious.

 

[Macky-Mac]

... "red honey" processing leaves around 80%...

yesterday while out walking, I was approaching being desperate for a place to sit and rest, so I stopped at a coffee shop. Imagine my surprise upon seeing a "red honey" coffee listed on their board as one of the three coffees they were serving that day

 

[Madhatter32]

yesterday while out walking, I was approaching being desperate for a place to sit and rest, so I stopped at a coffee shop. Imagine my surprise upon seeing a "red honey" coffee listed on their board as one of the three coffees they were serving that day

I'll be on the lookout for honey processed coffee. Frankly, I have never heard of this method/technique until @Scepticalscribe mentioned it above. Who would have thought that continuing education class is required for coffee aficionados?

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I'll be on the lookout for honey processed coffee. Frankly, I have never heard of this method/technique until @Scepticalscribe mentioned it above. Who would have thought that continuing education class is required for coffee aficionados?

To be perfectly honest, I hadn't known of it either, until relatively recently.

Still, I see it as learning new things, and seeing (and tasting) what the world has to offer in new - and sometimes, unexpected - ways.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

In any case, I can wholeheartedly recommend the Thai black honey processed coffee that I am currently enjoying (with organic hot milk).

And I will keep a close eye out for other "black honey processed" coffees, or coffees processed using the black honey method, to see whether they are equally good.

 

[Madhatter32]

In any case, I can wholeheartedly recommend the Thai black honey processed coffee that I am currently enjoying (with organic hot milk).

And I will keep a close eye out for other "black honey processed" coffees, or coffees processed using the black honey method, to see whether they are equally good.

I have had honey black tea -- but that would be a different thread.