Espresso Enthusiasts

[adrianlondon]

I have been wanting to make a Cortado to try. Any pointers? From what I’ve read it’s half espresso, half steamed cream. I wanted to try it for my no-sugar journey.

You've got it right.

So many different names ...

Made your Cortado with slightly frothed milk? Now it's a flat white.
Made your Cortado with slightly less milk than 50/50? Now you have an espresso macchiato.

Edit: Just noticed you said "steamed cream". I assume you mean milk?

 

[svenmany]

I'm considering buying a new grinder; I'm struggling with consistency in my espressos. Does anyone have recommendations?

I'd like the grind to be either by time or weight; I don't want to have to push and hold a button. I'd also like to be able to really fine tune the grind coarseness to control the pull better. And, I do occasionally need to serve guests drip coffee.

I've been studying the Baratza models. Some of them would work, but the prices give me pause. Maybe timing it to be a combined birthday/Christmas gift will soften the blow.

Any opinions of those models or other brands worth considering?

 

[Macky-Mac]

I have not tried Kona, but I can say that 100% Bena Bena from PNG made my mouth think it had died and gone to heaven...

Do not confuse Bena Bena coffee with Goroka coffee which is a blend of all the coffees in the area around Goroka. Still good, but not a patch on Bena Bena.

I've found a relatively local supplier of Bena Bena.....and am currently sipping a very tasty mug of it. It is indeed wonderful.

 

[avro707]

But where are you freezing cold?

In a country far far away where it is currently winter.

I'm considering buying a new grinder; I'm struggling with consistency in my espressos. Does anyone have recommendations?

How far do you want to go? You probably want to be looking at something like this:

https://www.coffeeparts.com.au/mazzer-mini-a-electronic-home-coffee-grinder-chrome

That's in AUD. But it's still a fair chunk of money. It's a small commercial grinder. Also this one:

https://www.coffeeparts.com.au/rocket-fausto-chrome-home-coffee-grinder


My own grinder here is a big Gino Rossi commercial grinder designed for coffee shops. It's all mechanical adjustment, old school style for grinding adjustment and the doser.

Also beware that some of these grinders can be extremely noisy. The one I use here cannot be used early morning otherwise it will wake up the house.

 

[Lioness~]

Having a great Espresso - served by my above friend 😉

Ps. the new AI emojis might be nice.

 

[svenmany]

In a country far far away where it is currently winter.






How far do you want to go? You probably want to be looking at something like this:

https://www.coffeeparts.com.au/mazzer-mini-a-electronic-home-coffee-grinder-chrome

That's in AUD. But it's still a fair chunk of money. It's a small commercial grinder. Also this one:

https://www.coffeeparts.com.au/rocket-fausto-chrome-home-coffee-grinder


My own grinder here is a big Gino Rossi commercial grinder designed for coffee shops. It's all mechanical adjustment, old school style for grinding adjustment and the doser.

Also beware that some of these grinders can be extremely noisy. The one I use here cannot be used early morning otherwise it will wake up the house.

Thanks so much for that input.

How far do I want to go? Well, I want the best and I want it to be really cheap. I have to manage my expectations. I see that the Vario+ by Baratza is $529.95. That seemed like a good fit, so I got it in head that $500 or so is my limit. Even the Baratza Sette 270, for $399.95, seemed suitable. But, I've now started to look at that Mazzer and things have started to shift. It's definitely time for that second mortgage.

I was only focusing on Baratza since I thought they were a US company and I live there. But, I've learned that they were bought by Breville and 2020, so that motivation has been diluted.

My wife is generally up before I am, so noise hasn't been an issue. If I plan to get up really early (before 6 AM), I do grind the night before. (No grind shaming please!)

 

[GrandCiel]

I have been wanting to make a Cortado to try. Any pointers? From what I’ve read it’s half espresso, half steamed cream. I wanted to try it for my no-sugar journey.

I make my cortado’s with equal parts espresso and steamed whole milk. I never know how a café might make a cortado and will occasionally ask and mention how I prefer it. Usually, I accept it as they make it and just enjoy it.

Many cafés make it more like what I would call a macchiato; equal parts espresso, steamed milk and foam. Those are still acceptable to me and how I would describe the "cortado's" the Maui cafe made my morning drinks for me.

I enjoy a flat white as well but most cafés don’t offer it and if they do, I won’t know how they make it until I try it. My idea of a flat white is a double ristretto with an equal amount of evenly blended steamed milk that turns in to a consistent, subtle, micro-foam.

Any of those styles are OK with me so I won’t complain if the cafe gets it close to any style but at home I make a simple cortado.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I make my cortado’s with equal parts espresso and steamed whole milk. I never know how a café might make a cortado and will occasionally ask and mention how I prefer it. Usually, I accept it as they make it and just enjoy it.

Many cafés make it more like what I would call a macchiato; equal parts espresso, steamed milk and foam. Those are still acceptable to me and how I would describe the "cortado's" the Maui cafe made my morning drinks for me.

I enjoy a flat white as well but most cafés don’t offer it and if they do, I won’t know how they make it until I try it. My idea of a flat white is a double ristretto with an equal amount of evenly blended steamed milk that turns in to a consistent, subtle, micro-foam.

Any of those styles are OK with me so I won’t complain if the cafe gets it close to any style but at home I make a simple cortado.

Until I read your most interesting post, I must confess that I had never heard of a 'cortado".

However, the other types of coffee preparation you mention - macchiato, and flat white - are two that I am most partial to.

And, in the here and now, I am enjoying a (relatively rare) late evening mug of coffee, from El Salvador.

 

[adrianlondon]

There's latte macchiatos and espresso macchiatos.

As "macchiato" is Italian for "stained" or "marked", an espresso macchiato is an espresso with a very small amount of frothed milk (I like those!) whereas a latte macchiato is a glass of frothed milk with an espresso poured into it (I like those too).

A "cortado" is Spanish for "cut" and is 50/50 espresso and milk (I also like these).

 

[GrandCiel]

There's latte macchiatos and espresso macchiatos.

As "macchiato" is Italian for "stained" or "marked", an espresso macchiato is an espresso with a very small amount of frothed milk (I like those!) whereas a latte macchiato is a glass of frothed milk with an espresso poured into it (I like those too).

A "cortado" is Spanish for "cut" and is 50/50 espresso and milk (I also like these).

I have heard much the same but with the terms "modern macchiato" and the traditional "Italian macchiato" served in Europe. I do enjoy a doppio with just a small dollop of foam on top.

Seattle may or may not be unique but I was made to understand David Schomer, owner of Espresso Vivace, was instrumental in developing both the Modern Macchiato and Latte Art in the USA. While David Schumer is credited with making the modern macchiato popular in the US with a tree of disciples that have spread out around the country, he exclusively uses ristretto doses while the majority may use more traditional US 1:2 doses. Schomer may have modified the traditional Italian style while he was popularizing latte art in the US since more steamed milk and foam is required to create intricate art patterns. This may also be different from your latte macchioto explanation since the milk is poured over the espresso.

Not only did I read this on the internet, so it must be true, but I have visited the flagship Espresso Vivace Cafe a couple times.

Article Archives - Espresso Vivace

These are copies of the original articles I have published, warts and all, between 1989 and the present. If you are new to espresso making start with “The Keys to the Church”. The Key to the Church, Coffee Talk Magazine, 04/1997 In Search of the Northern Italian Espresso Style, Café Olé...

espressovivace.com

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Another Italian dish (homemade Pasta Carbonara) followed by another (evening) mug of wonderful coffee to keep me company.......

No other cuisine calls for a post prandial cup of coffee in quite the same way as dining when influenced by the manifold delights of Italian cuisine.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

There's latte macchiatos and espresso macchiatos.

As "macchiato" is Italian for "stained" or "marked", an espresso macchiato is an espresso with a very small amount of frothed milk (I like those!) whereas a latte macchiato is a glass of frothed milk with an espresso poured into it (I like those too).

A "cortado" is Spanish for "cut" and is 50/50 espresso and milk (I also like these).

Fascinating.

And thank you.

I love this thread, and I love learning new things (not least about coffee).

 

[ssledoux]

I make my cortado’s with equal parts espresso and steamed whole milk. I never know how a café might make a cortado and will occasionally ask and mention how I prefer it. Usually, I accept it as they make it and just enjoy it.

Many cafés make it more like what I would call a macchiato; equal parts espresso, steamed milk and foam. Those are still acceptable to me and how I would describe the "cortado's" the Maui cafe made my morning drinks for me.

I enjoy a flat white as well but most cafés don’t offer it and if they do, I won’t know how they make it until I try it. My idea of a flat white is a double ristretto with an equal amount of evenly blended steamed milk that turns in to a consistent, subtle, micro-foam.

Any of those styles are OK with me so I won’t complain if the cafe gets it close to any style but at home I make a simple cortado.

Thanks for all the info! I use heavy cream in my coffee, so I usually have it on hand, but I’d love to go to something a bit less, shall we say, FATTENING. ;-p

I was considering trying half-n-half to see if that was satisfying.

 

[PhoenixDown]

I'm considering buying a new grinder; I'm struggling with consistency in my espressos. Does anyone have recommendations?

I'd like the grind to be either by time or weight; I don't want to have to push and hold a button. I'd also like to be able to really fine tune the grind coarseness to control the pull better. And, I do occasionally need to serve guests drip coffee.

I've been studying the Baratza models. Some of them would work, but the prices give me pause. Maybe timing it to be a combined birthday/Christmas gift will soften the blow.

Any opinions of those models or other brands worth considering?

I don't use it for espresso grinds but I simply love my Baratza Virtuoso+ ..... I only wish I got it sooner.

 

[GrandCiel]

I'm considering buying a new grinder; I'm struggling with consistency in my espressos. Does anyone have recommendations?

I'd like the grind to be either by time or weight; I don't want to have to push and hold a button. I'd also like to be able to really fine tune the grind coarseness to control the pull better. And, I do occasionally need to serve guests drip coffee.

I've been studying the Baratza models. Some of them would work, but the prices give me pause. Maybe timing it to be a combined birthday/Christmas gift will soften the blow.

Any opinions of those models or other brands worth considering?

I think someone mentioned a Mazzer Mini. It has a simple timer that can be turned off. I could never set it for the perfect dose so an on – off button works the same. I used one for years and it worked flawlessly but I recently upgraded to a single dose style grinder.

Like Baratza, I bought from a Seattle based company, KafaTek, owned and manufactured in Seattle by a local Seattle area company/person. Baratza still has Headquarters in the Seattle area, I think. I used one of their grinders for pour overs but recently gifted it to my son. I like their grinders a lot. Other Seattle based companies are Slayer, La Marzocco USA, and Synesso and there may be more. Starbucks doesn’t count.

You might look for a used Mazzer or other used comercial quality machines. They are built like tanks. I put new burrs on mine before I sold it and it would have been like buying a new grinder and well within your budget.

Some will say the grinder is more important than the espresso machine in the chain of producing the best espresso you can. Stretch your budget if you can. Single dosing has been a revelation to me and I love the results but it requires an extra step or two in the workflow and isn’t for everyone.

In ways I find single dose easier and faster; Weigh the dose, push power button on, poor in pre-weighed beans, wait for grinding to finish (I grind directly in to the portafilter), push power button off, WDT, tamp, pull shot.

I was swayed by buying from a local Seattle area company and have no personal experience on any of the following but they are just some on the models that seem to always come up; Niche Zero, Niche Duo, DF64V, DF83v and Timemore Sculptor 078S, Mazzer Philos, Lagom Mini, Sette, and on and on. My KafaTek MC6 is one of a number of excellent, higher end grinders at a higher price point.

 

[Macky-Mac]

...Some will say the grinder is more important than the espresso machine in the chain of producing the best espresso you can. Stretch your budget if you can....

yup, making good espresso does require a grinder that can produce a finer grind than what's required for making good coffee, so spending a bit more is worth it.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Enjoying a relaxing coffee this Saturday afternoon: A Blend (of my own devising) of - roughly one third - Bolivian coffee, and the rest from El Salvador, served with organic hot milk.

 

[svenmany]

I don't use it for espresso grinds but I simply love my Baratza Virtuoso+ ..... I only wish I got it sooner.

Thanks for that vote of confidence in that brand. I bought a Baratza Maestro Plus in 2009 and it served me well. Glad to hear that the brand still satisfies.

Some will say the grinder is more important than the espresso machine in the chain of producing the best espresso you can. Stretch your budget if you can. Single dosing has been a revelation to me and I love the results but it requires an extra step or two in the workflow and isn’t for everyone.

In ways I find single dose easier and faster; Weigh the dose, push power button on, poor in pre-weighed beans, wait for grinding to finish (I grind directly in to the portafilter), push power button off, WDT, tamp, pull shot.

This was very valuable input. Thanks so much. Considering your process, I have a feeling that a scale should be added to my purchase, not just a grinder.

 

[avro707]

Some will say the grinder is more important than the espresso machine in the chain of producing the best espresso you can.

They are both equally important. Unfortunately it can be an expensive addiction. I agree with the scale idea.

During Covid times I could have grabbed some very large commercial coffee machines out of coffee shops that were closing up during the lockdowns. I didn't bother because they were massive overkill and I didn't have enough bench space. I could have had one on the kitchen bench but then no room for anything else.

I have a Nuova Simonelli machine that still seems to be going well, it's getting on to probably 15 years age - fingers crossed it keeps going. It's not too scary to work on - the parts are simple and easy to get.

If it gives up I might find a used Appia II two group machine, it should be equally simple.

 

[ssledoux]

I feel so lame in this group with all of the fancy machines while I’m over here with my super automatic. I don’t know why I’m so afraid to jump in with both feet.

 

[adrianlondon]

I feel so lame in this group with all of the fancy machines while I’m over here with my super automatic. I don’t know why I’m so afraid to jump in with both feet.

Are you enjoying the coffees it makes? If so, everything else you do is optional, and you can confidently decide you're done!

 

[svenmany]

I feel so lame in this group with all of the fancy machines while I’m over here with my super automatic. I don’t know why I’m so afraid to jump in with both feet.

I feel a bit the same. I started to think I would ramp up, buy a much better grinder. But, I've decided that I'd then think my espresso machine would need to be upgraded to take advantage of the better grind. 4K later, I'd expect perfection in every shot and be miserable if I didn't get it.

I haven't fully decided, but I think I'll start slowly - maybe the Baratza Encore ESP with a single dose hopper. I'll start using my old kitchen scale (I checked it out yesterday and it seems to work fine). I'll also get a WDT tool and a dosing collar. If i ever decide to upgrade my Silvia V1 then I'll revisit the grinding.

I once tried an automatic that did everything at the push of a button. I must have gotten a bad one, so ended up returning it and buying the Silvia. I do enjoy repetitive rituals - even the part where I carry the dirties for washing to the sink when I'm done. The whole process is done in under 2 minutes. The only thing in my routine that requires patience is the warm-up of the machine; I give it 10 minutes.

 

[ssledoux]

I feel a bit the same. I started to think I would ramp up, buy a much better grinder. But, I've decided that I'd then think my espresso machine would need to be upgraded to take advantage of the better grind. 4K later, I'd expect perfection in every shot and be miserable if I didn't get it.

I haven't fully decided, but I think I'll start slowly - maybe the Baratza Encore ESP with a single dose hopper. I'll start using my old kitchen scale (I checked it out yesterday and it seems to work fine). I'll also get a WDT tool and a dosing collar. If i ever decide to upgrade my Silvia V1 then I'll revisit the grinding.

I once tried an automatic that did everything at the push of a button. I must have gotten a bad one, so ended up returning it and buying the Silvia. I do enjoy repetitive rituals - even the part where I carry the dirties for washing to the sink when I'm done. The whole process is done in under 2 minutes. The only thing in my routine that requires patience is the warm-up of the machine; I give it 10 minutes.

Well I don’t even have a super fancy automatic. It’s my third Gaggia (mainly just changing for features, and not because they’ve worn out). Honestly though, I’ve been happy with them all as far as quality of coffee/espresso. Good quality beans going from grinding to cup in under a minute is gonna give you a better cup than most. I chose my current one because I wanted to be able to make a good quality foam, and I definitely have that. I still have some perfecting to do, but it’s so smooth!

Anyway maybe one day when I am willing to put in a little more effort for that morning cup or two. I have been roasting beans, but the good thing about that is I can always buy good, local beans if I’m not feeling up to the task.

 

[avro707]

Are you enjoying the coffees it makes? If so, everything else you do is optional, and you can confidently decide you're done!

As long as it does the job and you are happy with the coffee it does.

By the way, my morning espresso at 6:30am was from a Lavazza pod machine. Not fancy, but quick and quiet.

The big coffee machine would take 5-10min to heat up.

 

[svenmany]

My morning ritual was off. A smoke/CO alarm went off in the night; checking things out and fretting resulted in a foggy morning. I set up my scale after I pull out the grinder. My bowl for measuring was then behind my grinder getting in the way of my graceful arm extension. The whole experience was anti-zen. My second cup had better go more smoothly or I'm just giving up on coffee altogether.