Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Status
The first post of this thread is a WikiPost and can be edited by anyone with the appropiate permissions. Your edits will be public.

DeSnousa

macrumors 68000
Jan 20, 2005
1,616
0
Brisbane, Australia
I am at work now :(

I will try some more shots tonight :D I will look at weighing my dose so that I can hold everything constant to work on the right coarse grind. I will see if I can find a tamp at a specialty shop over the weekend as the tamp I have is a stick more than anything also double as a level for your dose.
 

Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,929
1,727
New England, USA
I am at work now :(

I will try some more shots tonight :D I will look at weighing my dose so that I can hold everything constant to work on the right coarse grind. I will see if I can find a tamp at a specialty shop over the weekend as the tamp I have is a stick more than anything also double as a level for your dose.

I know this is an unnecessary suggestion....but be sure to use the double shot basket if your going to double your dose!:p

Don't skimp on the tamper...a decent one should cost about $25-$30 USD. A heavy stainless steel tamper (the material of the handle isn't important) is best. You will find that holding the tamp constant (around 30 pounds of pressure, unless your User Manual says otherwise) will be much easier with a good tamper. Those plastic things are a joke. My machine came with one...I think the manufacturer figures that if you spend a bit on the machine, you have your own tamper, so they put the silly plastic ones in the box.

Remember to be sure that it is the right size...and when you get it home it should have a close fit in your basket.
 

S.B.G

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 8, 2010
26,639
10,404
Detroit
Nice tamper!:p ;)

I just wonder, since it's made specifically to fit the VST and Strada baskets, if it might be too snug for DeSnousa's basket. I really don't know.

Good point, one that I forgot to consider (doh!) I was agh, errr, distracted while making that post. Yeah, that's it!

He'll have to make sure and get the right size for his filter basket.
 

Kurwenal

macrumors 6502a
Jun 27, 2012
899
345
You have little to worry about in this particular thread! It's like a forum within a forum where we feel like "it's just us" here.

Thank you, sir. I did read the rules when I joined, but that was a while ago, and, until I stumbled on this thread, I almost never posted, so I appreciate the info. I do not want to offend.

I will try some more shots tonight.

Yah, pay attention to the tamper and the advice from Shrink and SandboxGeneral. I made a tamper out of the bottom of a beer can and some PVC pipe once, but that was when I was in college and doing dumb things somehow made sense. Get a good one.

Here, let me give you some inspiration for your fun tonight. I suggest muting that video and watching it together with some good music, perhaps something like this (for the full experience, fast forward and start the music at exactly the 11:10 mark).

Now, I am not responsible, in any way, for the fact that this video will cause you to drink 24 espressos tonight.

Oh, darn, in preparing this post I watched the video twice.....off to make some espresso!
 

Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,929
1,727
New England, USA
Thank you, sir. I did read the rules when I joined, but that was a while ago, and, until I stumbled on this thread, I almost never posted, so I appreciate the info. I do not want to offend.



Yah, pay attention to the tamper and the advice from Shrink and SandboxGeneral. I made a tamper out of the bottom of a beer can and some PVC pipe once, but that was when I was in college and doing dumb things somehow made sense. Get a good one.

Here, let me give you some inspiration for your fun tonight. I suggest muting that video and watching it together with some good music, perhaps something like this (for the full experience, fast forward and start the music at exactly the 11:10 mark).

Now, I am not responsible, in any way, for the fact that this video will cause you to drink 24 espressos tonight.

Oh, darn, in preparing this post I watched the video twice.....off to make some espresso!

Nice CYA! Always deny responsibility for everything...especially stuff for which you are, in fact, responsible!

When DeSnousa ends up shaking like a leaf in the Emergency Room of his local hospital...it's not your fault.

No...really...we won't hold you reposible!

Really...


Edit: OMG! That first video of the bottomless PF is unbelievably beautiful!
 

S.B.G

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 8, 2010
26,639
10,404
Detroit
Now, I am not responsible, in any way, for the fact that this video will cause you to drink 24 espressos tonight.

Nice CYA! Always deny responsibility for everything...especially stuff for which you are, in fact, responsible!

Responsibility, what's that? :p

----------

Here, let me give you some inspiration for your fun tonight. I suggest muting that video and watching it together with some good music, perhaps something like this (for the full experience, fast forward and start the music at exactly the 11:10 mark).

I followed your instructions and that was an amazing video with an excellent piece to play with it. Bravo!

OMG! That first video of the bottomless PF is unbelievably beautiful!

Wasn't it though? It was great!
 

Kurwenal

macrumors 6502a
Jun 27, 2012
899
345
Um...how to say this politely,,,ah...you have entirely too much time on your hands!:eek:

:p

It is true, and I apologize. I have been "working from home" during the holidays, it shows, and that is about to come to a screeching halt.
 

Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,929
1,727
New England, USA
It is true, and I apologize. I have been "working from home" during the holidays, it shows, and that is about to come to a screeching halt.

Oh, gracious...I wasn't serious. Please don't apologize...the video was very silly...and fun.

I'm so sorry if it sounded like I was serious...I feel terrible.

Please don't stop providing links...the videos are wonderful!

Please accept my apologies, Mate...:eek:
 

Kurwenal

macrumors 6502a
Jun 27, 2012
899
345
Oh, no, my "screeching halt" comment referred to my looming return to the office and weekly travel schedule, not your posting! Gosh, sorry I was unclear.

Espresso on!
 

turtle777

macrumors 6502a
Apr 30, 2004
686
30
Ok, my Baratza Vario arrived. 1st grind on a fine setting, and after 30 seconds, still no extraction. I guess it was too fine. Ooops. :D

After dialing in coarser grinds, I was finally getting to a double shot (1oz each) extraction at 26 seconds. Was using 16 gr. of coffee. The taste of the espresso was much better than what I was able to get before.

Very happy so far with the Vario.

-t
 

Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,929
1,727
New England, USA
Ok, my Baratza Vario arrived. 1st grind on a fine setting, and after 30 seconds, still no extraction. I guess it was too fine. Ooops. :D

After dialing in coarser grinds, I was finally getting to a double shot (1oz each) extraction at 26 seconds. Was using 16 gr. of coffee. The taste of the espresso was much better than what I was able to get before.

Very happy so far with the Vario.

-t

Congrats on your new toy. It's always nice when you drop some dough on a gizmo...and it works as you had hoped. I'm sure you'll get it dialed in shortly and enjoying an improved espresso.

Speaking of which...we're in the middle of a big storm here...lots of snow and nasty cold...time to go pull a double shot!:D
 

DeSnousa

macrumors 68000
Jan 20, 2005
1,616
0
Brisbane, Australia
So it is the weekend and I have been drinking coffee all day :D

I have got a 60 ml shot to extract in 26 seconds from a double shot basket and have been very impressed with the taste. Near perfect taste but not 100% there yet. I have the grind set to 13 which I am still unsure on, my grinder has 0 to 25 presets, 0 being the finest. I thought making an espresso would require a much more finer grind than halfway on my grinder?

I still need a better tamp and a set of scales to weigh my grind.

Went to the local stores and could not find a tamp, might have to order this online. Now the basket is 52mm wide so would I get a 51mm tamp?

Much more happier today :)
 

Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,929
1,727
New England, USA
So it is the weekend and I have been drinking coffee all day :D

I have got a 60 ml shot to extract in 26 seconds from a double shot basket and have been very impressed with the taste. Near perfect taste but not 100% there yet. I have the grind set to 13 which I am still unsure on, my grinder has 0 to 25 presets, 0 being the finest. I thought making an espresso would require a much more finer grind than halfway on my grinder?

I still need a better tamp and a set of scales to weigh my grind.

Went to the local stores and could not find a tamp, might have to order this online. Now the basket is 52mm wide so would I get a 51mm tamp?

Much more happier today :)

It's great that you are getting closer to your goal. Just to point out that getting "!00% there" is an ongoing process for all who make espresso...I've been at it for a while, and the perfect double shot occurs a bit more now...but not 100% of the time.

A question about your measurement of you basket. The most common size for baskets is 53MM and 58MM. There are some others (I've read of 49MM, but never seen one). I think if you re-measure your basket, you'll find it's 53MM, as I've never heard of 52MM (although anything is possible). I don't think you will find a 51MM tamper, as tampers are made to fit the baskets...so if you find your basket is 53MM, get a 53MM tamper - it is made to fit the 53MM basket. And, actually, the more snug the fit the better.

If you can find a scale with less than 1.0GM resolution, I would get it. When measuring higher weights (like when I measure 240GM for my roaster) the 1.0GM variance doesn't matter much. Remember, a 1.0GM resolution means if it says 18GM on the scale, the actual weight is 18.0GM to 18.99GM...and then it turns over to 19GM. If you can find a scale with 0.5GM resolution, that is desirable.

That said, it certainly is possible to do fine with a 1.0GM resolution...remember, I'm certifiably crazy...always keep that in mind reading my posts!:p
 

VideoFreek

Contributor
May 12, 2007
579
194
Philly
If you can find a scale with less than 1.0GM resolution, I would get it. When measuring higher weights (like when I measure 240GM for my roaster) the 1.0GM variance doesn't matter much. Remember, a 1.0GM resolution means if it says 18GM on the scale, the actual weight is 18.0GM to 18.99GM...and then it turns over to 19GM. If you can find a scale with 0.5GM resolution, that is desirable.
I've been looking for a 0.1g scale, and so far the best I've been able to find is this. I like the 2kg capacity, as it would allow french press or Chemex brewing right on the scale. If anyone has any better options, I'd be delighted to hear about them.

Incidentally, the scale that appears in the video that Kurwenal posted back in post #1817 is a real beauty. I've been able to determine that it is an Ohaus Navigator. Sadly, it goes for around $400-500, so that's out of the question. :(
 

Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,929
1,727
New England, USA
I've been looking for a 0.1g scale, and so far the best I've been able to find is this. I like the 2kg capacity, as it would allow french press or Chemex brewing right on the scale. If anyone has any better options, I'd be delighted to hear about them.

Incidentally, the scale that appears in the video that Kurwenal posted back in post #1817 is a real beauty. I've been able to determine that it is an Ohaus Navigator. Sadly, it goes for around $400-500, so that's out of the question. :(

Great find!The scale looks great! Anything with under 1.0GM resolution is terrific, and this 0.1GM resolution will give you good accuracy on weight as, at most, it will only be 0.1 off...which is nothing when it comes to dosing.
 

Kurwenal

macrumors 6502a
Jun 27, 2012
899
345
Near perfect taste but not 100% there yet.

If you are pulling "near perfect taste" then don't change a thing and just enjoy your coffee.

The "100%" shot is what people call "the God Shot." (Originally, the God Shot was defined as having to be a double ristretto, but these days the term has to some degree become more generic than that and is used to refer to the absolute perfect shot of any type.) For me, the God Shot is very rare. Most shots I pull at home are "85% shots," and this is with several decades of experience, the highest quality water and coffee, very good equipment, etc.

This morning, I had two double ristrettos. The first I would rate at about 75%, the second was 80%. I don't worry about it. Both coffees this morning were very good and I enjoyed both the coffee and the experience. That's what counts.

Taking your shots from 60% to 70% is relatively easy; making the move from 85% to 87% on a consistent basis is very difficult, and many times comes down to random chance.

For me, the quality of the taste is important mostly because it enhances something else; my enjoyment of the process of preparing it, my conversation with friends, my enjoyment of the newspaper, the "coffee geek" inside; whatever. That is more important than the "mere" taste itself.

It sounds like you are 70% or 75% of the way to being where you want to be: pulling "very good" shots on a consistent basis, and having fun doing it. Focus on rounding out your kit; the tamper is a key part of keeping things consistent (which is your goal and something you should fixate over). You can spend a lot, but you don't need to. Something like this will work just fine and it could be many years before you feel the need to upgrade. Or, you can spend more now. Up to you, but that Rattleware will be just fine.

I agree with Shrink; take another look at your basket before you order something.

Once you have your equipment rounded out and you are more or less pulling consistent shots at about the "80% level," then you will begin a process of identifying the weakest link in your chain and focusing on improving just that one thing, holding everything else constant. For many, once you have the grind roughed in and your kit rounded out (including high quality water and coffee), the weakest link will be micro-adjustments to your grind or the quality of your tamp and puck. You will improve that weakest link and then move on to something else. Eventually, you will have "fixed" so many weakest links that something you "fixed" years ago will again become the weakest link and you will start to work on whatever it is again. Eventually, you will obsess over whether you should be pre-heating the brew head with 2 oz of water, or 2.5. Right now, that difference would not impact the quality of your shot. Eventually, it will, and you will decide whether you care or not (either is ok). Your scale will change; what used to be an 80% shot for you will suddenly be a 60% shot. You will decide whether you care or not. Again, either is ok.

My advice is to buy a tamper and scale and then just enjoy yourself for a while, content in the knowledge that you are producing better coffee than you could buy in 80%-90% of the coffee shops in the US, and focus on improving your skills. Weigh and time every shot, keep notes, try some different coffees, and don't worry about chasing the God Shot for a while. It will happen, and when it does you will re-think everything you are doing and rush out and buy new equipment (and probably a roaster), consider moving to Italy, and slowly let the God Shot creep in and take over your soul. I've had one dozen God Shots, in 30 years, almost none of which I produced myself, and I cherish the memory of every one; but the richest parts of the memories are who I was with and where I was.

Congratulations on making your shots so far; enjoy them.

----------

Incidentally, the scale that appears in the video that Kurwenal posted back in post #1817 is a real beauty. I've been able to determine that it is an Ohaus Navigator. Sadly, it goes for around $400-500, so that's out of the question. :(

I have been meaning to look. Thank you for the link.
 
Last edited:

Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,929
1,727
New England, USA
If you are pulling "near perfect taste" then don't change a thing and just enjoy your coffee.

The "100%" shot is what people call "the God Shot." (Originally, the God Shot was defined as having to be a double ristretto, but these days the term has to some degree become more generic than that and is used to refer to the absolute perfect shot of any type.) For me, the God Shot is very rare. Most shots I pull at home are "85% shots," and this is with several decades of experience, the highest quality water and coffee, very good equipment, etc.

This morning, I had two double ristrettos. The first I would rate at about 75%, the second was 80%. I don't worry about it. Both coffees this morning were very good and I enjoyed both the coffee and the experience. That's what counts.

Taking your shots from 60% to 70% is relatively easy; making the move from 85% to 87% on a consistent basis is very difficult, and many times comes down to random chance.

For me, the quality of the taste is important mostly because it enhances something else; my enjoyment of the process of preparing it, my conversation with friends, my enjoyment of the newspaper, the "coffee geek" inside; whatever. That is more important than the "mere" taste itself.

It sounds like you are 70% or 75% of the way to being where you want to be: pulling "very good" shots on a consistent basis, and having fun doing it. Focus on rounding out your kit; the tamper is a key part of keeping things consistent (which is your goal and something you should fixate over). You can spend a lot, but you don't need to. Something like this will work just fine and it could be many years before you feel the need to upgrade. Or, you can spend more now. Up to you, but that Rattleware will be just fine.

I agree with Shrink; take another look at your basket before you order something.

Once you have your equipment rounded out and you are more or less pulling consistent shots at about the "80% level," then you will begin a process of identifying the weakest link in your chain and focusing on improving just that one thing, holding everything else constant. For many, once you have the grind roughed in and your kit rounded out (including high quality water and coffee), the weakest link will be micro-adjustments to your grind or the quality of your tamp and puck. You will improve that weakest link and then move on to something else. Eventually, you will have "fixed" so many weakest links that something you "fixed" years ago will again become the weakest link and you will start to work on whatever it is again. Eventually, you will obsess over whether you should be pre-heating the brew head with 2 oz of water, or 2.5. Right now, that difference would not impact the quality of your shot. Eventually, it will, and you will decide whether you care or not (either is ok). Your scale will change; what used to be an 80% shot for you will suddenly be a 60% shot. You will decide whether you care or not. Again, either is ok.

My advice is to buy a tamper and scale and then just enjoy yourself for a while, content in the knowledge that you are producing better coffee than you could buy in 80%-90% of the coffee shops in the US, and focus on improving your skills. Weigh and time every shot, keep notes, try some different coffees, and don't worry about chasing the God Shot for a while. It will happen, and when it does you will re-think everything you are doing and rush out and buy new equipment (and probably a roaster), consider moving to Italy, and slowly let the God Shot creep in and take over your soul. I've had one dozen God Shots, in 30 years, almost none of which I produced myself, and I cherish the memory of every one; but the richest parts of the memories are who I was with and where I was.

Congratulations on making your shots so far; enjoy them.

----------



I have been meaning to look. Thank you for the link.

What a dandy post...really makes me think about the long learning process...still in progress.

I would guess that I've been close to a God Shot maybe a couple of times, at best. But I'm very happy with my 85% - 90% shots fairly consistently. Not every time, mind you, but relatively frequently. It's still a great double shot!

This is the scale I have for weighing doses. I have another for larger weights, such as weighing beans for roasting. The linked scale doesn't compare to the Ohaus scale, but it does stabilize in a couple of seconds, comes with calibration weights, and has a 0.01 resolution. And is relatively (compared to the Ohaus...a lot) cheap.

About tampers...Kurwenal's suggestion is an excellent choice. My bias is toward somewhat heavier, stainless steel tampers. For me, the aluminum is a bit light. Here's a Rattleware tamper that's stainless...take a look at this one, too. Either will serve you well.
 
Last edited:

Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,144
47,530
In a coffee shop.
If you are pulling "near perfect taste" then don't change a thing and just enjoy your coffee.

The "100%" shot is what people call "the God Shot." (Originally, the God Shot was defined as having to be a double ristretto, but these days the term has to some degree become more generic than that and is used to refer to the absolute perfect shot of any type.) For me, the God Shot is very rare. Most shots I pull at home are "85% shots," and this is with several decades of experience, the highest quality water and coffee, very good equipment, etc.

This morning, I had two double ristrettos. The first I would rate at about 75%, the second was 80%. I don't worry about it. Both coffees this morning were very good and I enjoyed both the coffee and the experience. That's what counts.

Taking your shots from 60% to 70% is relatively easy; making the move from 85% to 87% on a consistent basis is very difficult, and many times comes down to random chance.

For me, the quality of the taste is important mostly because it enhances something else; my enjoyment of the process of preparing it, my conversation with friends, my enjoyment of the newspaper, the "coffee geek" inside; whatever. That is more important than the "mere" taste itself.

It sounds like you are 70% or 75% of the way to being where you want to be: pulling "very good" shots on a consistent basis, and having fun doing it. Focus on rounding out your kit; the tamper is a key part of keeping things consistent (which is your goal and something you should fixate over). You can spend a lot, but you don't need to. Something like this will work just fine and it could be many years before you feel the need to upgrade. Or, you can spend more now. Up to you, but that Rattleware will be just fine.

I agree with Shrink; take another look at your basket before you order something.

Once you have your equipment rounded out and you are more or less pulling consistent shots at about the "80% level," then you will begin a process of identifying the weakest link in your chain and focusing on improving just that one thing, holding everything else constant. For many, once you have the grind roughed in and your kit rounded out (including high quality water and coffee), the weakest link will be micro-adjustments to your grind or the quality of your tamp and puck. You will improve that weakest link and then move on to something else. Eventually, you will have "fixed" so many weakest links that something you "fixed" years ago will again become the weakest link and you will start to work on whatever it is again. Eventually, you will obsess over whether you should be pre-heating the brew head with 2 oz of water, or 2.5. Right now, that difference would not impact the quality of your shot. Eventually, it will, and you will decide whether you care or not (either is ok). Your scale will change; what used to be an 80% shot for you will suddenly be a 60% shot. You will decide whether you care or not. Again, either is ok.

My advice is to buy a tamper and scale and then just enjoy yourself for a while, content in the knowledge that you are producing better coffee than you could buy in 80%-90% of the coffee shops in the US, and focus on improving your skills. Weigh and time every shot, keep notes, try some different coffees, and don't worry about chasing the God Shot for a while. It will happen, and when it does you will re-think everything you are doing and rush out and buy new equipment (and probably a roaster), consider moving to Italy, and slowly let the God Shot creep in and take over your soul. I've had one dozen God Shots, in 30 years, almost none of which I produced myself, and I cherish the memory of every one; but the richest parts of the memories are who I was with and where I was.

Congratulations on making your shots so far; enjoy them.

----------



I have been meaning to look. Thank you for the link.

What a lovely, informative, helpful and utterly delightful post. And what a wonderful thread - take a bow, guys (and gals); it is always a pleasure to drop in, to read, chuckle, and sometimes, above all, to learn from those who take such utter pleasure in sharing their knowledge and expertise.
 

Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,929
1,727
New England, USA
What a lovely, informative, helpful and utterly delightful post. And what a wonderful thread - take a bow, guys (and gals); it is always a pleasure to drop in, to read, chuckle, and sometimes, above all, to learn from those who take such utter pleasure in sharing their knowledge and expertise.

And my thanks to you for your lovely narratives.

Less technical, but a wonderful literary addition to the thread.

And, you should be getting a percentage from the makers of Bialetti pots...with your descriptions of the pleasures of the moka pot...it seems at least a few here want to share your enjoyment of that production method.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.