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Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,929
1,727
New England, USA
Or, to say the same thing in just a few words: how do y'all make espresso at work? Or do you just go with a righteous brew?

Wonderful narrative, Mate!:D

Since your knowledge of "equipment" is far superior to mine, and your palate is, too...I really can't be much help on equipment alternatives.

Just one observation, though...is it possible that you are over thinking this whole thing. It is almost as if you are embarrassed that you like the acceptable coffee produced by the Nespresso. Stop looking for explanations as to why you might possibly find the coffee produced by the Nespresso acceptable (long flight, jet lag, general discombobulation) and just enjoy the coffee!

It also meets your office needs...so I don't see the downside.

I know everyone is sick of my oft repeated, ad infinitum, ad nauseum, if-you-like-it-it's fine bumper sticker...but don't over think the thing.:D
 

Kurwenal

macrumors 6502a
Jun 27, 2012
899
346
Thanks all for the help and encouragement.

Well, I use a press and hand grinder at work, and I'm absolutely satisfied.

What is wrong with sticking with an aeropress (which is what I am thinking of doing as I have one at home). Much easier than a machine and you can have espresso at home or when going out. :)


This is the default, and there is nothing wrong with it. But I have a lingering sense that the 2 pm cup should be a ristretto. Or maybe I just enjoy tilting at windmills.

The related issue for me is decaf. I am perfectly happy, at this point, with Decaf Noir-based ristrettos. Finding a reliable decaf drip that I can roast (decently and consistently) or buy is more problematic. So the move to decaf is pushing me towards more espresso vs. drip. I wonder (expect?) that this will be a temporary situation.

We won't give you (much) grief. :p:D

Well, as the person who led me to Decaf Noir......you can do no wrong. I love that stuff, and am now on the 1 lb per week program.


I stick to water

You actually drink water? What an odd concept. I mean, I knew it was theoretically possible, but....really? I'll have to consider that. Maybe if I tell myself it is "de-coffee'd coffee" it will go down more easily.

"That" is what I have to drink at work-either that or an older machine that makes "cough-e" akin to vending machine brew bought at a bus stop.

I think "this" is better than "that," at least based on some reviews and comparisons I have read over the past few days. (With "this" being pods and "that" being cups.)

Since your knowledge of "equipment" is far superior to mine, and your palate is, too...I really can't be much help on equipment alternatives.
Absolutely not. You know what you like and you stick to it, which I highly respect. Me, I am always afraid there is something out there.....better. So, I know what I like, but I don't stick to it. I view myself as.....well....less focused than you!

Stop looking for explanations as to why you might possibly find the coffee produced by the Nespresso acceptable (long flight, jet lag, general discombobulation) and just enjoy the coffee!

Egad! You said the word that must not be spoken!

I know everyone is sick of my oft repeated, ad infinitum, ad nauseum, if-you-like-it-it's fine bumper sticker...but don't over think the thing.:D

Not sick at all, and it is terrific advice that you should keep handing out. Part of my (real) fear is that I am losing my taste, related to my advancing age and all of that, and having recently passed a birthday....a big one. When I got home yesterday, I overground some Liquid Amber and intentionally pulled a 60 second shot. It tasted like crap, and I was beyond overjoyed that I could tell that it tasted like crap.

Even the armchair shrinks can diagnose me from a mile away. :p

With respect to equipment:

This is too complicated for what I need.

I have one of these and have not been impressed.

I am considering buying one of these, which are well reviewed and, with proper grounds, would make a ristretto, but I would need to upgrade my hand grinder. Lido has a new model under beta test...were it available today I would buy it.

Decisions.....decisions.
 

mobilehaathi

macrumors G3
Aug 19, 2008
9,368
6,353
The Anthropocene
Not sick at all, and it is terrific advice that you should keep handing out. Part of my (real) fear is that I am losing my taste, related to my advancing age and all of that, and having recently passed a birthday....a big one. When I got home yesterday, I overground some Liquid Amber and intentionally pulled a 60 second shot. It tasted like crap, and I was beyond overjoyed that I could tell that it tasted like crap.

When you're consistently brewing fabulous cups, it can become so normalized that you lose perspective. Once in a while, I intentionally buy or make a 'bad cup' just to make sure I'm not (completely) crazy. (Or just visit family, oh the horror they pass off as coffee!)

Nothing wrong with the occasional radical re-focus and re-target...;)
 

Kurwenal

macrumors 6502a
Jun 27, 2012
899
346
When you're consistently brewing fabulous cups, it can become so normalized that you lose perspective. Once in a while, I intentionally buy or make a 'bad cup' just to make sure I'm not (completely) crazy. (Or just visit family, oh the horror they pass off as coffee!)

Nothing wrong with the occasional radical re-focus and re-target...;)

True true.

And then, this morning, a god shot greets me. Life is good, friends.

12695637904_16962e8210_k.jpg


Apologies for the crappy cell phone pic, but I wasn't about to ruin it by going to find a real camera. Liquid Amber roasted on Wednesday, ground and pulled as a double ristretto. The beans were reviewed and sorted last night.

Shrink this was taken exactly 40 seconds into second crack.
 
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S.B.G

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 8, 2010
26,670
10,447
Detroit
You actually drink water? What an odd concept. I mean, I knew it was theoretically possible, but....really? I'll have to consider that. Maybe if I tell myself it is "de-coffee'd coffee" it will go down more easily.

Yes, it's true. I do, in fact, drink water. I'm not sure where I picked up this nasty habit or when, but I've been doing it for a long time. When consuming it, I try not to think about it and just go through the motion and hope it's over quickly enough. LOL :cool:

True true.

And then, this morning, a god shot greets me. Life is good, friends.

Excellent! What a great way to start the day than with a perfect cup. Bravo.
 

Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,929
1,727
New England, USA
Yes, it's true. I do, in fact, drink water. I'm not sure where I picked up this nasty habit or when, but I've been doing it for a long time. When consuming it, I try not to think about it and just go through the motion and hope it's over quickly enough. LOL :cool:

W.C. Fields had a great line about why he never drank water. Unfortunately, this is a family forum so I can't give you the quote. Suffice it to say it constituted his excuse to drink only gin!
 

S.B.G

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 8, 2010
26,670
10,447
Detroit
I just received, this week, by way of the Honorable Mr. Shrink a Rancilio Rocky Coffee Grinder to replace my Baratza Encore grinder. He gave me a fair price for it and I thank him very much for the deal. :)

Here are some photos of the first grind and double shot I made from it. As most of you probably know, I don't normally drink straight espresso and instead make lattes out of it, but this time I drank the whole thing straight. It was the Sweet Maria's Liquid Amber blend from the batch I bought around Thanksgiving. I am nearly all out of it, and the beans, though kept in a proper air tight container, may be slightly stale. But, it still tasted rather good and it wasn't too bitter like most of the other blends I try. I was impressed that it tasted this well considering the age of the beans, and being the first grind out of the, new-to-me, machine.

Bravo Mr. Shrink. Thanks for the machine and the support. :)
 

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Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,929
1,727
New England, USA
I just received, this week, by way of the Honorable Mr. Shrink a Rancilio Rocky Coffee Grinder to replace my Baratza Encore grinder. He gave me a fair price for it and I thank him very much for the deal. :)

Here are some photos of the first grind and double shot I made from it. As most of you probably know, I don't normally drink straight espresso and instead make lattes out of it, but this time I drank the whole thing straight. It was the Sweet Maria's Liquid Amber blend from the batch I bought around Thanksgiving. I am nearly all out of it, and the beans, though kept in a proper air tight container, may be slightly stale. But, it still tasted rather good and it wasn't too bitter like most of the other blends I try. I was impressed that it tasted this well considering the age of the beans, and being the first grind out of the, new-to-me, machine.

Bravo Mr. Shrink. Thanks for the machine and the support. :)

I'm so glad that the grinder is giving you good service.

That Liquid Amber Blend is such good stuff...it's even good if it's slightly stale! And knowing that you are not usually a fan of straight espresso, but prefer latte or cappuccino, makes it even more impressive that the stuff is pleasing to you.

SM really got it right with that blend!

As for selling the grinder to SBG...I think I was pretty easygoing since the man is such a nice guy. I only required two picture IDs, blood and urine samples, and a Certified DNA Profile to back up his check. Geez...I'm so easy...:p:eek:
 

mobilehaathi

macrumors G3
Aug 19, 2008
9,368
6,353
The Anthropocene
True true.

And then, this morning, a god shot greets me. Life is good, friends.

Image

Apologies for the crappy cell phone pic, but I wasn't about to ruin it by going to find a real camera. Liquid Amber roasted on Wednesday, ground and pulled as a double ristretto. The beans were reviewed and sorted last night.

Shrink this was taken exactly 40 seconds into second crack.

Ohh delicious! When you sort, what do you look for in a 'good' bean?

I just received, this week, by way of the Honorable Mr. Shrink a Rancilio Rocky Coffee Grinder to replace my Baratza Encore grinder. He gave me a fair price for it and I thank him very much for the deal. :)

Here are some photos of the first grind and double shot I made from it. As most of you probably know, I don't normally drink straight espresso and instead make lattes out of it, but this time I drank the whole thing straight. It was the Sweet Maria's Liquid Amber blend from the batch I bought around Thanksgiving. I am nearly all out of it, and the beans, though kept in a proper air tight container, may be slightly stale. But, it still tasted rather good and it wasn't too bitter like most of the other blends I try. I was impressed that it tasted this well considering the age of the beans, and being the first grind out of the, new-to-me, machine.

Bravo Mr. Shrink. Thanks for the machine and the support. :)

Looks like a fine machine!

As for selling the grinder to SBG...I think I was pretty easygoing since the man is such a nice guy. I only required two picture IDs, blood and urine samples, and a Certified DNA Profile to back up his check. Geez...I'm so easy...:p:eek:

I hope you got a high coverage whole genome and none of this CODIS FBI crap. Actually you should probably just create immortalized lymphoblastoid cell lines, so you always have a constant supply on hand. You can never be too sure when $$$ is changing hands. :p;)
 

Kurwenal

macrumors 6502a
Jun 27, 2012
899
346
Here are some photos of the first grind and double shot I made from it.

Warm congratulations on your purchase. May it bring you many happy cups, with milk or without.

Ohh delicious! When you sort, what do you look for in a 'good' bean?

Weeeellll, as with most things coffee, it is more an art than a science. Here is what I look for:

1. Over-roasted beans. Easy to find, easy to toss. In my custom roasts, I really try hard to draw out the time between first crack and second crack. You can get from FC to SC very quickly, but if you draw it out, even for 3-4 minutes, without stopping the roasting process (which ruins the beans), all sorts of interesting things happen with the flavor. But, doing this will also over roast some of the beans. Have to get those out, or the batch is ruined.

2. Consistency. Usually on day 2 after a roast, I spread the beans out on a white cloth and give them a quick once over with a magnifying glass. I toss any bean that is not consistent with whatever I am trying to accomplish. This can mean lots of things....hard edges, color, oil, etc.

3. Defects. Fortunately, buying from SM, this is not a big deal, but a few defects still get through. "Defect" is a term of art that means, mainly, a misshapen or incomplete bean. In fact, defects per 300g is how coffee is graded. You can toss them before roasting, but to save time I do it after (a truly dedicated home roaster would do it before......). With a good SM blend, I find maybe 2 or 3 defects per 227g roasted batch, and often not even that many.

4. Ugly beans. By this I mean, mostly, a bean that has cracked in half.

5. Chaf. This is also a good opportunity to deal with any remaining chaf. Usually there isn't all that much, but it is very important not to include chaf in the cup (at least to me). So, you kind of want to polish each bean, very gently, without disturbing any oil.

I typically throw away 20%-30% of a roasted batch. Actually, I don't throw the rejects away, I just put them in my bin to use to clean out the grinders after running the Grindz through them.

_______

Let me add, it is no accident that this morning's god shot came after I thoroughly cleaned every piece of equipment last night. It was a major, hours long cleaning fest. We talk about grinders and tamping and all of that, but cleaning everything, appropriately and well, is the best thing we can do for our cups.
 
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mobilehaathi

macrumors G3
Aug 19, 2008
9,368
6,353
The Anthropocene
Weeeellll, as with most things coffee, it is more an art than a science. Here is what I look for:

Thanks for that; I'm taking notes! ;)

You know...you all might tell me I'm crazy, but I was browsing SM's and saw some DIY roasting guides with an air popcorn popper...

I'm intrigued and tempted. Bad idea? Good idea? More trouble than it is worth to get a decent roast? The side vented poppers seem to do a remarkable good job at keeping the beans circulating for an even roast. And I'd only be going to a City/City+ roast for pour over...
 

Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,929
1,727
New England, USA
Thanks for that; I'm taking notes! ;)

You know...you all might tell me I'm crazy, but I was browsing SM's and saw some DIY roasting guides with an air popcorn popper...

I'm intrigued and tempted. Bad idea? Good idea? More trouble than it is worth to get a decent roast? The side vented poppers seem to do a remarkable good job at keeping the beans circulating for an even roast. And I'd only be going to a City/City+ roast for pour over...

While my knowledge is nowhere near that of our friend Kurwenal, and you might have as bit of trouble getting a really uniform roast, not to mention that I'm not sure how that kind of roasting process handles the chaff.using a popcorn popper...what the hell, it's worth a try assuming that the popper in not too expensive (I haven't looked at the SM information).
 

mobilehaathi

macrumors G3
Aug 19, 2008
9,368
6,353
The Anthropocene
While my knowledge is nowhere near that of our friend Kurwenal, and you might have as bit of trouble getting a really uniform roast, not to mention that I'm not sure how that kind of roasting process handles the chaff.using a popcorn popper...what the hell, it's worth a try assuming that the popper in not too expensive (I haven't looked at the SM information).

We're talking ~$20 new.

This is why I'm so tempted.

And SM's claims,

We HIGHLY recommend this method because it's easy and it produces very even roasts from the City to the French stages.

*shrug*

I might just go for it when I get back from out of town...
 

Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,929
1,727
New England, USA
We're talking ~$20 new.

This is why I'm so tempted.

And SM's claims,



*shrug*

I might just go for it when I get back from out of town...

SM is, as you know, a very reliable site. The guy and his wife who run it are not given to distorted claims about the stuff they sell. My opinion is that if they sell it, they've very carefully tested it. And the price is definitely right...what can you lose.:D
 

mobilehaathi

macrumors G3
Aug 19, 2008
9,368
6,353
The Anthropocene
SM is, as you know, a very reliable site. The guy and his wife who run it are not given to distorted claims about the stuff they sell. My opinion is that if they sell it, they've very carefully tested it. And the price is definitely right...what can you lose.:D

So, ahh, how do you store your green beans, and how long do they last?;)
 

Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,929
1,727
New England, USA
Yes, I was torn between copulate or have intercourse, but neither is a patch on WC's.

KGB:cool:

It's not a line that cleans up well...something is definitely lost in translation!;)

----------

So, ahh, how do you store your green beans, and how long do they last?;)

According to the Rule of 15's, green coffee is good for 15 months. I store it in the zip lock bags in which it comes from SM, and then put them in a relatively air tight container. That last bit is probably not really necessary...but it's me.:p

Storing green beans is no problem at all. I order it 8 pounds per order, and use roughly 1 pound per week. I think SM has a $15 minimum order, and about $9.00 for the cheapest shipping. Since both you and SM are in SF area...you might even be able to pick it up.

SM Location: 1115 21st Street (at Adeline) West Oakland CA 94607

Edit: Just a few things about roasting. First is to remember that I know nothing about using a popcorn popper...only about my roaster, which is a hot air/drum hybrid.

I’m guessing that you will have to do your own timing...but that’s no big deal. What can be a big deal is smoke! My roaster starts producing copious smoke starting at about first crack. So much so that unless you have a stove hood that vents outdoors (which I don’t), you will have to find some arrangement to vent the smoke outdoors...or do your roasting outdoors. I have a vent hose that goes from my roaster out the kitchen window. However, living in CA you might be able to roast outdoors year round...unlike here in N.E. where that wouldn’t be so much fun...lots of snow and all. You will learn, as I did, to do your roasting mostly by smell and eyeball. You will also have to figure out some rapid cooling method, as most roasters have a cooling cycle...which I doubt is standard equipment on a popcorn roaster.
 
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Kurwenal

macrumors 6502a
Jun 27, 2012
899
346
I'm intrigued and tempted. Bad idea? Good idea?

Fantastic idea. It opens up a whole new vista in the coffee world. As you no doubt have noticed, there are passionate posters in the SM forum who have roasted with air poppers for years. Just from what I have read there, it seems pretty straight forward, so long as you buy the right model (some can roast coffee, some cannot). I think the biggest challenges for poppers are consistency (they roast quickly, so the difference between 5:10 and 5:20 is, or at least can be, significant in terms of taste) and cooling the beans rapidly. If you spend an evening reading the SM air popper threads, you will be 90% of the way there.

The first time you smell the "baked bread" and "green grass" odors coming off the beans, early in the roast.....oh, that is nirvana.

SM is, as you know, a very reliable site. The guy and his wife who run it are not given to distorted claims about the stuff they sell. My opinion is that if they sell it, they've very carefully tested it. And the price is definitely right...what can you lose.:D

Agree 100%.

I store it in the zip lock bags in which it comes from SM, and then put them in a relatively air tight container. That last bit is probably not really necessary...but it's me.:p

Same here, pretty much. You do not have to use airtight containers for green beans, although many do. I either leave the beans in the bag used by SM, usually put inside another zip lock, or for larger volumes I just double bag in those ginormous zip lock bag (I think they are called 2.5 lb bags....I use the same bags to marinate briskets and such for my Big Green Egg).

For roasted beans, I recently have switched to these, which I prefer over what I used previously as you can force all of the air out of the can while sealing it. It's a slight inconvenience to have to use two lids, and I'm not sure I have noticed any taste difference yet.....but.....
 

Kurwenal

macrumors 6502a
Jun 27, 2012
899
346
I thought I should come back and post a few roasting tips. I will shy away from the stuff you will read on SM.

1. Speaking of SM, they have excellent tutorials. Start there.

2. Figuring out when FC starts or ends or SC starts can actually be a bit intimidating at first. A good rule of thumb to remember is to ignore any cracks that are not followed or preceded by another crack within five seconds. Almost always, for example, you will hear a stray early crack by some impatient bean, so, if the "real" first crack starts at 5:00 (counting down, for me, from 17:00), you might hear a stray crack one minute earlier, at 6:00. Ignore it. Same thing on the tail end. Only cracks that are within 5 seconds of another crack count (although I follow this rule a bit less doggedly for second crack than first, but you will figure it out after just a few roasts).

3. Start a log. Write down everything. Number your batches. I suggest you track at least:

. roast batch (I number them, by year then sequential number)

. date

. time of day (my evening roasts taste better than early morning roasts, no idea why).

. a general comment on humidity, ie "raining outside." I do not record the exact measurement; many roasters do.

. my goal roast, so "second crack + 45 seconds" or "Vienna" or the like.

. which roasting profile I am using (I keep a separate spreadsheet with all of my roasting profiles; with the date and the profile number I can always go back and see exactly what parameters I used). Even with an air popper, I think you will benefit by keeping track of this (and with your science background you probably will anyway). So, start with your first roast and figure out a profile, call it "MobileH1" or whatever, and then you will tweak the parameters going forward.

. pre-heat time/temp

. time FC begins

. time of rolling FC

. time FC ends

. time SC begins

. time SC ends

. eject time

. stretch time (this is to record my manual adjustments to the parameters during the roast process, basically I reduce the heat to below the bean temperature as soon as FC ends, and then I crank the heat back up to above the bean temperature exactly 2 minutes later....this is my attempt to extend the period between FC and SC as much as I can).

4. I think it's a good idea to keep tasting notes for each batch. Over the years, I have used both simple (just a simple numerical grade, 1-100) and complex. Currently, I am using a simplified version of the SCAA cupping form.

I learn a lot by going over data on past roasts and cupping scores.

5. SM will tell you to pay serious attention to cooling the beans. Listen to them; beans are just like a steak on the grill, they continue to cook after you remove the heat. At a minimum, get two colanders and pour the just-ejected beans back and forth until they are not warm to the touch.

6. Chaff. I'm not exactly sure how to deal with chaff in an air popper, but read up on this. It's important. You will be surprised, I think, how much chaff even a small volume roast can produce. It's a bit hard to see, but this picture is the chaff produced tonight by a 227g roast of Liquid Amber. The last thing you want is to ruin your cup by grinding up a bunch of chaff. The colanders will help, but are not a complete solution.


12709639155_38eabe5f7a_z.jpg


Most of all, have fun!
 

Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,929
1,727
New England, USA
I thought I should come back and post a few roasting tips. I will shy away from the stuff you will read on SM.

1. Speaking of SM, they have excellent tutorials. Start there.

2. Figuring out when FC starts or ends or SC starts can actually be a bit intimidating at first. A good rule of thumb to remember is to ignore any cracks that are not followed or preceded by another crack within five seconds. Almost always, for example, you will hear a stray early crack by some impatient bean, so, if the "real" first crack starts at 5:00 (counting down, for me, from 17:00), you might hear a stray crack one minute earlier, at 6:00. Ignore it. Same thing on the tail end. Only cracks that are within 5 seconds of another crack count (although I follow this rule a bit less doggedly for second crack than first, but you will figure it out after just a few roasts).

3. Start a log. Write down everything. Number your batches. I suggest you track at least:

. roast batch (I number them, by year then sequential number)

. date

. time of day (my evening roasts taste better than early morning roasts, no idea why).

. a general comment on humidity, ie "raining outside." I do not record the exact measurement; many roasters do.

. my goal roast, so "second crack + 45 seconds" or "Vienna" or the like.

. which roasting profile I am using (I keep a separate spreadsheet with all of my roasting profiles; with the date and the profile number I can always go back and see exactly what parameters I used). Even with an air popper, I think you will benefit by keeping track of this (and with your science background you probably will anyway). So, start with your first roast and figure out a profile, call it "MobileH1" or whatever, and then you will tweak the parameters going forward.

. pre-heat time/temp

. time FC begins

. time of rolling FC

. time FC ends

. time SC begins

. time SC ends

. eject time

. stretch time (this is to record my manual adjustments to the parameters during the roast process, basically I reduce the heat to below the bean temperature as soon as FC ends, and then I crank the heat back up to above the bean temperature exactly 2 minutes later....this is my attempt to extend the period between FC and SC as much as I can).

4. I think it's a good idea to keep tasting notes for each batch. Over the years, I have used both simple (just a simple numerical grade, 1-100) and complex. Currently, I am using a simplified version of the SCAA cupping form.

I learn a lot by going over data on past roasts and cupping scores.

5. SM will tell you to pay serious attention to cooling the beans. Listen to them; beans are just like a steak on the grill, they continue to cook after you remove the heat. At a minimum, get two colanders and pour the just-ejected beans back and forth until they are not warm to the touch.

6. Chaff. I'm not exactly sure how to deal with chaff in an air popper, but read up on this. It's important. You will be surprised, I think, how much chaff even a small volume roast can produce. It's a bit hard to see, but this picture is the chaff produced tonight by a 227g roast of Liquid Amber. The last thing you want is to ruin your cup by grinding up a bunch of chaff. The colanders will help, but are not a complete solution.


Image

Most of all, have fun!

Geez...and I thought I was nuts!:eek:

Great tutorial! Thanks for posting it!:D
 

S.B.G

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 8, 2010
26,670
10,447
Detroit
Good morning friends. I drank this one straight too, though it was more bitter than yesterday's cup.
 

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